Book 2 – Page 38

[Squall83]

Small typo in Panel 7. There's an "an" too much.

Great comic! I was hoping for an awesome text-update discussion where Charlie and Tramennis get to know each other and now we're probably getting a WAY more awesome discussion including Zamussels in which Charlie might share some GK information.

I. can't. wait.

Also, nice new look for Wanda. ^^ I like it better than the afro.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Correction: Parson's Dwagon harvesting idea came before the attack on the Unaroyal capital.

Still, a side with near-perfect intelligence and limitless ability would have had numerous occasions to stop GK in their tracks, and with good enough intelligence even Wanda's Pliers were obtainable. So I don't see why Charlescomm could not have ended the war at any time it wanted to in the past. The ability would have been there; it's also apparent that Vanna was on good terms with Charlie, and other casters from the MK as well. Therefore, there were avenues to approach Royal sides.

So "biding one's time for the best moment"- no. "The best moment" is something Charlie could fabricate at any time.

[justamessenger]

So "biding one's time for the best moment"- no. "The best moment" is something Charlie could fabricate at any time.

But what is the best moment for Charlie? He is quite mercenary in his outlook, always looking to maximize his schmuckers. Is the best moment when all hope seems lost for the Royals, or is it best when all hope seems lost to GK, in which case either side may be willing to fork over significantly more fees to Charlie.

Similarly, the best moment might be when everything hangs in the balance and the only way to tip the scale is to ask for Charlie's intervention.

We don't know if Charlie really wants GK neutralized. We don't know if Charlie wants the Royals to hang around. What we do know is that Charlie is in it for Charlie and for nobody else. If he can find a way to maximize his take and increase his influence and power relative to the other sides he will do it. It may be that he is intentionally trying to level the playing field among the sides so that he can continue to instigate, promote and profit from wars between them. The more powerful a side becomes the less they will rely upon Charlie's support. The more evenly matched the sides are, the more they will need Charlie to help them win. The only losers in those scenarios are the sides actually involved, while Charlie rakes in the profits by playing them against one another.

[DevilDan]

Charlie doesn't move too early just because he can. He used Kingworld at exactly the right time, and not a turn sooner.

And a supposed intervantion at Unaroyal would have been bad because why? Wanda was there with the Pliers. Back then there was no Dwagon harvesting I think, and that was mostly a ground column. Easy picking for a group of Archons. Out of 600, if you can send enough to threaten a capital, you can probably send enough to make life hell for that column (GK still didn't seem well equipped in the archer department btw).

And do all the dirty work himself? And without securing an extortionate price for it ahead of time?

Why would he particularly give a pile of acidic battle crap for Bea or Unaroyal in particular? (With the additional added inconvenience of tipping his hand and showing Parson that he's definitely moving against him.)

And speaking of the Dwagon harvesting, Charlie could have put some clamps on that too; we assume the Gobwins going away is C's handiwork, what's a few Dwagons?

Assuming he knew about the dwagon harvesting. If he did, then the obvious move (assuming Charlie really wants Stanley dead or deposed or at least wants his hands on the pliers) would have been to use Kingworld while Stanley was in the mountains without anything but a few dwagons with him. To paraphrase: "Boom! Head(of state)shot!"

[Wender]

Charlie doesn't move too early just because he can. He used Kingworld at exactly the right time, and not a turn sooner.

And a supposed intervantion at Unaroyal would have been bad because why? Wanda was there with the Pliers. Back then there was no Dwagon harvesting I think, and that was mostly a ground column. Easy picking for a group of Archons. Out of 600, if you can send enough to threaten a capital, you can probably send enough to make life hell for that column (GK still didn't seem well equipped in the archer department btw).

That would have been far more costly to Charlie, assuming that he could even have found someone there willing to hire him. The differences at Jetstone are that Jillian, the last royal in the West willing to talk to him, was there at the behest of Transylvito; that as a result of Unaroyal falling, there was a turnamancer available whose last orders practically require her to oppose GK, and; that the GK army of doom depended on force multipliers, and for once they saw an opportunity to remove the multiplier from the force and trap them. The power of GK's ground game depended on Wanda (and possibly Ansom?) being in the same hex, or a nearby hex. Now they aren't. The force currently biding its time in Jetstone's airspace was supposed to be a quick strike force. It was never supposed to take Jetstone's full defense in the teeth. This is a far more golden opportunity than Unaroyal was, and Charlie is able to exploit it partly because of Jillian, partly because of Unaroyal.

Why didn't Charlie act alone at Unaroyal? That would have required him to find a turnamancer, hire them, bring them to the site (at considerable risk), put a significant number of his own archons at risk, risk the wrath of Bea, who didn't trust him and probably wouldn't approve of his meddling, and finally--working alone would reduce him to being another side in the conflict, which would make any side thinking of hiring him wonder just when he would decide to take sides in one of their conflicts for free.

And speaking of the Dwagon harvesting, Charlie could have put some clamps on that too; we assume the Gobwins going away is C's handiwork, what's a few Dwagons?

Charlie has absolutely no intelligence on GK's airspace. He's vented about it before. As far as he knows, the dwagons at Jetstone are most or even all of the dwagons GK has. Plus, they're not natural allies; they're tamed by an Arkentool. Turning them may be beyond his ability.

[cdrcjsn]

Umm...did Parson really just give an order to Wanda to stay alive, whatever the cost?

What if that cost is defecting to Charlie?

[MonteCristo]

But on the other hand, it again confirms that Charlie can do ANYTHING. Which makes it more glaring when Charlescomm DOESN'T. Charlie had the abilities and resources to crush GK, in full view of any royal, at any time now.

What you do not take into account at all is HOW Charlie would have to go about it... namely that a war with GK would be bound to loose him A LOT of archons.
Charlie has about 600 archons, but most of them are spread out doing mercenary work or waiting to be hired. Any currently working can not be used, and it could take multiple turns for many of them to come back home. Furthermore, Charlie relies on mercenary work in order to pay for their upkeep; if they stop working for too long he may be force to disband some. Hell the only reason Charlie was able to strong arm Haggar is because Haggar left pitiful defences and may not have been able to see veiled archons... GK should not be underestimated, they would likely see an archon army coming soon enough to get most of their dwagons back to GK to defend... and unlike the archons, the dwagons will be supported by numerous bonus's. Even if Charlie wins, A LOT of his archons are gonna croak... Charlie would not want this; Charlie may want to regain the trust of the royals but he likely wants to greatly limit the personal cost

Hell another possible factor is that Wiping out GK on his own can have negative implications. Right now, people understand that Charlie is resourceful and useful in a fight, but at the same time may not know the true extent of his power. If Charlie shows himself to be able to single handedly wipe out a powerful side like GK, the royals might start viewing him as a potential threat. While they appreciate him destroying their enemy, they can't help but fear the potential of him becoming an enemy... this fear leads them to distancing themselves from him, and may even lead to them forming a alliance to preemptively destroy him... Not to mention, SAVING the Royals from certain doom as he has here, will go a lot farther in gaining their trust than just fighting their enemy...

And a supposed intervantion at Unaroyal would have been bad because why? Wanda was there with the Pliers. Back then there was no Dwagon harvesting I think, and that was mostly a ground column. Easy picking for a group of Archons. Out of 600, if you can send enough to threaten a capital, you can probably send enough to make life hell for that column (GK still didn't seem well equipped in the archer department btw).

Right here you highly overestimate how much Charlie sent to Haggar...
"he stationed complement in your capital is a bit meager, isn't it? Only one-hundred-ninety infantry, mostly on the outer walls, eighteen heavy units, fifteen small flyers, two warlords, two casters, and seven courtiers. Seaside, you have two level two vessels and a level four, with an available complement of seventy-five infantry, seven small flyers, one heavy flyer, and one more warlord."
Haggar had incredibly small defences... Charlie could probably wipe them out with only a few dozen archons...

At Unaroyal however, Wanda had an army that was made up of THOUSANDS... and your assumption that they did not have a lot of archers, is purely that, an assumption... baseless in fact

In fact, it's becoming less believable that GK was ever a threat! Why, their expedition at Jetstone was made up of a ground column, easily mopped up, while the Dwagon fleet was always assumed doomed under Jetstone. And with Charlie capable to stop turns, and read minds, GK should never have got off the ground.

The ground column was never meant to be anything more than a occupation force... hence why it was so easily dealt with especially after they lost their bonus from Ansom
The dwagons were the main attack force, and the only reason Jetstone is so confident is because they managed to get TWO kingdoms worth of infantry to fight them... part of the previous threat was the fact that Haggar was not gonna join them. Not to mention that all GK needed to do to win in an offensive fight is kill the King and his heir; they would not need to fight the entire army (though the army would be easily dealt with once those bonus's were gone)

[Alexei P]

I think BLAND's main point was that Charlie had the means to crush GK, had he so wished (to support the "Charlie is way too strong" argument), regardless of whether or not it was convenient for him to do so. I tend to agree. Although to be fair, even with the (as of yet hypothetical) ability to eavesdrop on any Thinkagram at will, that Dish ain't got nothing on Wanda's "steamroll you with your own mooks for free" thing (which is my pet peeve). Most sides don't even have thinkamancers, presumably. So far in the story, we've seen only 2 that have one on hand.

[Paŭlo]

Why didn't Charlie act alone at Unaroyal? That would have required him to find a turnamancer, hire them, bring them to the site (at considerable risk), put a significant number of his own archons at risk, risk the wrath of Bea, who didn't trust him and probably wouldn't approve of his meddling, and finally--working alone would reduce him to being another side in the conflict, which would make any side thinking of hiring him wonder just when he would decide to take sides in one of their conflicts for free.

In fact, the turnamancer used now was the turnamancer of Unaroyal before. So, she was on site, but sure the trick would need at least consent from Bea.

[MonteCristo]

I don't think kingsworld would have been a whole lot of help to unaroyal... Kingsworld takes up so much juice that it can't be used more than one turn in a row
Gk had unaroyral hopelessly outnumbered, stopping them one turn early would not do much. The only reason Kingsworld was so helpful at space rock was because Jetstone needed that one extra turn to rearrange their forces, and to receive reinforcements from Haggar... Delaying GK by one turn would not have allowed unaroyal enough time to get the reinforcements it needed

[nerf-dweller]

Nice it looks like Charlie may of hacked GK's thinkagram now he has an idea of what Parson has planed. Why do I get the feeling that even if he did not hack the message that he will be providing some key information to the RCC 2 about their enemy. Good update and Xin did a knock out job on the artwork.

If Charlie can tap in on thinkagrams, it's an ability he dear not even hint he has. It would panic everyone on Erf, and his most valuable information source would dry up. N ad if true Charlie knoews far more than what evryone thinks, and he's a far more dangerous opponent than anyone can imagine.

Oh and Xin's artwork is wondrful. I love the panel showing Wanda with flowing hair in the clouds. Fantastic!

[Anca]

The art is fantastic. It's interesting seeing Parson's expressions in these panels; it seems things are wearing on him quickly.

My first impression wasn't that Charlie was eavesdropping, just that this was a page of everyone Thinkagramming. I'm wondering, if that's the case, who Charlie is speaking with.

Now I'm wondering if that isn't all a smokescreen and he's doing something else entirely.

[ftl]

One more typo comment - the last text bubble of the last panel needs punctuation, a period at the end.

[Jay]

Charlie could already talk to Parson directly through the iBook.. which was a shock to the people at GK (and we never learned whether or not he could read Parson's notes there). The ability to listen in on a Thinkagram (when he's personally using the Dish) isn't really out of bounds. Nobody knows (knew) exactly WHAT ability the Dish was giving him. Given the abilities of the other tuned artifacts we know of, Charlie's not showing anything over-powered.

Also, as for why Charlie wouldn't just use his knowledge to force Wanda's defeat.. well, we don't know WHAT his motives or goals really are.

[spriteless]

I bet Parson's plan is decrypting dragon steak, but it won't work, and Tramennis' desire to parley will change things.

What if the Arkendish is not overpowered, but instead Charlie found another Arkentool in his ever expanding search for info?

[ftl]

Umm...did Parson really just give an order to Wanda to stay alive, whatever the cost?

What if that cost is defecting to Charlie?

Hah! Nice catch. It would be interesting if that ends up coming back to bite Parson, that order.

[zilfallon]

"what if the arkendish isn't overpowered?" ??

that's pretty unlikely.

also, i really wonder something: who is charlie speaking to when queen dumb and tramennis tried to connect?

"it's simple, it's dumb, it's a cheat" like those words

oh and wanda looks SOOOOO CUTEEEEEEEEEEEEEE in panel 5 !

[splintermute]

And speaking of the Dwagon harvesting, Charlie could have put some clamps on that too; we assume the Gobwins going away is C's handiwork, what's a few Dwagons?

@BLANDCo
Dwagons aren't natural allies - they're feral creatures. There's no reason to assume that because he can influence one he can automatically influence the other.

Yes, Charlie is OP, but you seem to be blowing the possible revelation of a possible "new" power completely out of proportion.

We don't know if Charlie can eavesdrop on thinkagrams, but if he can, is it really that surprising? He can hack into eye-books, which were a closed system, and people have long suspected he could hack into thinkagrams, at least those that go through Charlescomm, and Maggie and Parson seem to have suspected, long ago, that he can hack into other thinkagrams as well (see Summer Update 35, where they rely on hats rather than thinkagrams for battle reports, although that may just be for juice conservation).

This ability is considerably riskier for Charlie than all his other abilities - he has to find ways to act on this intelligence without anyone ever finding out how he acquired it, or his most profitable business will collapse. The ability is of limited usefulness - barring the thinkamancers we saw in the MK, we've only seen two functional "battle"-thinkamancers - Maggie and Bunny (and maybe the mystery Unaroyal thinkamancer mentioned once in Book 1, p. 138, and then never heard from again).

All your other complaints right now have nothing to do with the specific possible "revelation" in this page - they're just a tired rehash of the arguments you raised after the Kingworld spell. They were fun to discuss then, but they're boring and repetitive now.

[ShinyBrownCoat]

Awesome! Art and content!

This is definitely ambiguous, but it sure seems to imply that Charlie can eavesdrop on conversations. What a crazy god power that is!

There, fixed that for you.

[DevilDan]

As an aside, I think it's safe to assume that most larger sides have thinkamancers or hire them when they're at war.