Book 2 – Page 40

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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:06 am

Dancingrage wrote:Hard to see what I want to see more, Tramennis putting the verbal screws to Charlie (which I can tell he's about to do, he's beginning to lay down a verbal trap for him already to get stuck in) or Parson quitting with the hem-hawing and getting suited up to go do some romper-stomping.


Heh. When Parson goes romper stomping, you'd better hope it's not you he sees in the magic mirror.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Snowtitan » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:18 am

BCCroaker wrote:"Charlescomm's neutrality has never waived".
Surely that should "wavered".


Not so sure about that, in a contract, you can waive a clause, it may be an intentional misdirection.

zbeeblebrox wrote:[edit] Oh yeah, and it's interesting that the "red dot" forces (which I assume to be the dwagons) on the tabletop map are inside a smaller hex inside the city's hexgon. Aren't cities supposed to count as a single hex?


It's never been specifically stated that cities sit inside a single Hex, just assumed. We know that movement rules are different within cities, so it is possible that Cities are larger than a standard hex. This doesn't imply that cities contain hexes, just that they are larger than a normal hex.
Going by the Image Spacerock has a 'Physical size' of 3 although it will be a level 5. do cities get larger when they level, do they vary randomly these are other issues
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:25 am

name lips wrote:I just had a crazy. CRAZY. idea.

OK, so we know that troops need food, right? And we know that food is actually produced by cities (or their outlying farms). Pigs pop in the farms, for instance, and having a butcher's shop in the city makes the pigs occasionally de-pop from the farms, while things like hams and bacon pop into the larder.

With me so far? Ok. Now I'm assuming that this food, created in the cities, is what is used to supply troops. You produce X units of food per turn, which can support Y number of troops. But how does this food reach the troops? Especially when you activate your off-turn ability to "resupply" your units? Why it simply pops there! It vanishes from the larder, and reappears in the troop's backpacks. (speculation, obviously).

OK. Now this is where I get crazy. So now we have ONE way for inanimate objects to travel from the capital city to the troops on an off-turn. Instant, teleporty, popping transportation. Perhaps Parson is going to exploit this. Perhaps he's going to try to send things other than food. File in a cake, anyone? What if he stuffed a powerful magic item into a piece of bread, then sent the bread off to "resupply" Wanda? Would the item teleport too?

So this could be why he's visiting the armory. He's going to gather together a bunch of items/weapons and encase them in food and teleport them to Wanda!



This was already suggested weeks ago.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby The Black Hand » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:31 am

Radagast wrote:
Ambug666 wrote:OK, the UN Logo. Most other things I can let slide, but I can't imagine how Charlie would come up with the UN Logo unless he is from our world, like Parson.


For some reason it made me think of the RAINBOW team from Rainbow 6... although that was originally a NATO team, I haven't played the recent games, so maybe it changed to UN?


If memory serves, it did.

And if memory serves, there was a novel written by Tom Clancy that inspired the video games - in fact, both John Clark and Domingo "Ding" Chavez (who were both involved with the original RAINBOW team) show up in Clancy's book Executive Orders.

Also, this exchange:

Tramennis: I hear you've been aiding Royal sides.
Charlie: blah de blah rumors, blah de blah unfounded suppositions, blah de blah paranoia
Tramennis: In fact, I hear you've been doing it free of charge. Perhaps even at your own expense . . . ?
Charlie: Well, that's just slander!


It made me lol.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:15 am

Great page!

So yeah it doesn't, by itself, move the plot along a great bit, but the character interaction is delicious! And I'm a known strident disliker of Charlie and Trem (though that last one is shifting).

"Wild speculation and paranoid suspicions" Yeah, that's us breaking into the comic :P

I like the idea of the food transporter, even if it's been mentioned before.

I don't think Parson is going to go to the battlefield this turn. Two things need to be resolved for that, at least: him being a garrison unit, and his side being off-turn anyway. Rather than spending who knows how many pages getting Stanley to promote Parson, and for some MK fooling around, let's get to the darn battle already.

Which is what Parson is signalling to everybody (mostly himself) that he wants to do. As others suggested, I think he picks up a sword as a symbol of reasserting command.

Tell that to Freud.

Anyways, he also appears a bit conflicted- on the one hand, he sees the ones at the battle as people now, not gamepieces. On the other, implied, he cannot afford to be too emotionally attached, or the outcome will be worse.

PS:

In typical "don't believe what is actually said" fashion, when Charlie says "slander!" about working for free, he/she/it/they is/are not necessarily truthful. Maybe Charlescomm did in fact work for "free" (consider it an investment in bringing down GK), but has a reputation to keep up.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby build6 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:27 am

you know, Charlie and Tramennis are rather similar in many ways, aren't they? Tramennis is certainly no dummy. I guess he may not be up to Parson's (or Charlie's?) level of cunning, but Parson's a lot more "straightforward" a person ...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby timh » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:05 am

This made me wonder, why Charlie is even bothered with preserving Jetstone..

Charlie never really struck me as a pro bono kind of guy, I assumed he was helping Jillian to keep this conflict going on so he could profit from it. But by now it should be clear that Jetstone is broke.. they cant afford Charlies help and even if he helps there is no guarantee that Jetstone survives whatever Gobwin Knob is going to do.
Either way, Jetstone is screwed... even if they survive any other side can wals over their surrounding cities and I'm convinced Jetstone wont be back in its initial position of power within the next dozen turns or so.

So....why bother? Charlie cant profit from Jetstone, that much is clear. Perhaps he could deal with Jetstone and get some other kind of compensation. (free information, free protection, free cloth golems for Charlie, free use of Jetstones casters ect.) but that'd all have a hugely negative drawback for Jetstone, so chances are that anything Charlie wants from them will result in the destruction of Jetstone.

I'm pretty sure its safe to say, that the big reason Charlie is helping out in this conflict is the fact that he wants Gobwin Knob to fail. Which implies that Charlie has a strategic intrest in this conflict, which in turn implies that he does have a strategy other then "Get more archons" He's up to something big, methinks.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby MonteCristo » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:23 am

timh wrote:So....why bother? Charlie cant profit from Jetstone, that much is clear.

This entire battle has been an investment for the future.
As it originally stood, the Jetstone had the other royal sides believing that Charlie was allied with GK. This was terrible for business as NONE of the royal sides would hire him. However, If he were to not only show himself as an enemy of GK, but also help SAVE one of the royals in their most desperate hour, then the rumors of his alliance with GK would be put to rest and he would once again have the business of the royals. Not to mention that saving the royals from certain doom also does well to advertise his strength.

He will earn no profit from this battle, but he will earn a profit as a long time result of it...
Ofcourse, if he fails and spacerock falls, then this investment will be for nothing
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby odoflood » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:46 am

Forgive me if this has been discussed before (I don't haunt to forums much, as evinced by the fact that this is my first post), but this talk of food and larders has me thinking...

If, say, pigs, depop in farms and ham hocks and bacon pop in larders, does this imply that the food is in fact croaked pigs?

If so, can said croaked pigs, cows, chickens, etc be decrypted?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:00 am

timh wrote:This made me wonder, why Charlie is even bothered with preserving Jetstone..


I think it's mostly because they are there. After the defeat of Unaroyal and the end of the first phase of expansion, the battle for Spacerock was the next opportunity for his plans.

Also, Jetstone is the direct neighbour of GK and its strongest enemy. Even if Charley plan would have worked perfectly, with Wanda croaked, all decrypted becoming dust, and Stanley caught in the capital, Gk would still have enough cities and troops to continue expansion with ordinary means. Especially with a chief warlord like Parson. If Charley had waited till they absorbed Jetstone, they would be still unstoppable, just slower.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby 5HT » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:18 am

The Rainbow in panel #9 is from Rainbow Brite, no?

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Look at her "belt".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Lamech » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:35 am

Parson is going to the armoury, and he is getting a piece for himself? I'm not implying anything at all...
Also I liked the different Charlie images much more this time.
I don't think Parson is going to go to the battlefield this turn. Two things need to be resolved for that, at least: him being a garrison unit, and his side being off-turn anyway. Rather than spending who knows how many pages getting Stanley to promote Parson, and for some MK fooling around, let's get to the darn battle already.
The portals don't take move, he has moved through them as a garrision unit before. And as for MK foolery. Its Parson walking in, walking over to a portal and popping out the other side.
Last edited by Lamech on Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby zilfallon » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:38 am

name lips wrote:I just had a crazy. CRAZY. idea.

OK, so we know that troops need food, right? And we know that food is actually produced by cities (or their outlying farms). Pigs pop in the farms, for instance, and having a butcher's shop in the city makes the pigs occasionally de-pop from the farms, while things like hams and bacon pop into the larder.

With me so far? Ok. Now I'm assuming that this food, created in the cities, is what is used to supply troops. You produce X units of food per turn, which can support Y number of troops. But how does this food reach the troops? Especially when you activate your off-turn ability to "resupply" your units? Why it simply pops there! It vanishes from the larder, and reappears in the troop's backpacks. (speculation, obviously).

OK. Now this is where I get crazy. So now we have ONE way for inanimate objects to travel from the capital city to the troops on an off-turn. Instant, teleporty, popping transportation. Perhaps Parson is going to exploit this. Perhaps he's going to try to send things other than food. File in a cake, anyone? What if he stuffed a powerful magic item into a piece of bread, then sent the bread off to "resupply" Wanda? Would the item teleport too?

So this could be why he's visiting the armory. He's going to gather together a bunch of items/weapons and encase them in food and teleport them to Wanda!


As another person said, using rations in this plan has been suggested, though what you meant is different, and highly unlikely. GK's airforce is currently outnumbered, really bad. I don't think GK has an item which can make a losing force overpower the winning. There has been no foreshadowing of this, and if they happen to have a "secret armor/weapon which they kept in armory even when they sent everything they have to a crusade", THAT would be an asspull. If that happens, NO ONE has the right to blame KW for being an asspull. But as i said, i don't think this is the case.

timh wrote:This made me wonder, why Charlie is even bothered with preserving Jetstone..

Charlie never really struck me as a pro bono kind of guy, I assumed he was helping Jillian to keep this conflict going on so he could profit from it. But by now it should be clear that Jetstone is broke.. they cant afford Charlies help and even if he helps there is no guarantee that Jetstone survives whatever Gobwin Knob is going to do.
Either way, Jetstone is screwed... even if they survive any other side can wals over their surrounding cities and I'm convinced Jetstone wont be back in its initial position of power within the next dozen turns or so.

So....why bother? Charlie cant profit from Jetstone, that much is clear. Perhaps he could deal with Jetstone and get some other kind of compensation. (free information, free protection, free cloth golems for Charlie, free use of Jetstones casters ect.) but that'd all have a hugely negative drawback for Jetstone, so chances are that anything Charlie wants from them will result in the destruction of Jetstone.

I'm pretty sure its safe to say, that the big reason Charlie is helping out in this conflict is the fact that he wants Gobwin Knob to fail. Which implies that Charlie has a strategic intrest in this conflict, which in turn implies that he does have a strategy other then "Get more archons" He's up to something big, methinks.


Jetstone is a strong royal side. Unaroyal already fell. If they are defeated too, Charlie would lose more than a few free-services. When Spacerock falls, GK will probably have a decent army of decrypted. Also, don't forget that they have lots of cities and remember they are the richest in Erf. They can produce loads of troops. Also, don't forget...it has been like 70 turns since TBfGK. Just guess numbers of dirtamancy golems in Gobwin Knob...

Spacerock isn't Jetstone's only city, they'll have an army, but still, they won't get another chance to trap GK like this, especially since Lord Hamster is pulling the strings now.

Also, I like the way Tram teases Charlie. To be honest, i'm surprised. Jillian didn't say anything. Tram is really smart if he really suspected Charlie. But he is dumb if he actually didn't and is trying to win a game of lies against Charlie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ftl wrote:I like the idea that Parson is going to the armory to get a sword. It'll purely symbolic, no ruthlessness bonus here, but symbols are powerful.


Agreed, i believe that Hamster going to armory is purely symbolic, a sign And uh...let's not forget Lord Hamster naming his streets, and let me point the speculation which suggests that Parson is a signamancer. A connection between those is possible i think.

Edit: Could Charlie be referring to US when he said "wild speculations, paranoid suspicions"? :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Magentawolf » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:39 am

Sigh. I really would like for something to happen one of these months.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Krennson » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:01 am

Chris Goodwin wrote:
NoDesignation wrote:
zbeeblebrox wrote: Oh yeah, and it's interesting that the "red dot" forces (which I assume to be the dwagons) on the tabletop map are inside a smaller hex inside the city's hexgon. Aren't cities supposed to count as a single hex?


I noticed that too. I was assuming that because cities are more important and have more units inside them, and because they don't currently care about what's outside the city nearly as much, they simply "zoomed in." Notice the larger, portable, hex marker that sits around the city. The smaller hex is just a part of the table design and is currently being ignored in favor of the larger hex that's been placed on the table. I've done the same kind of thing when I've run games.


Cities are divided into zones. For the owner of the city and allies, the whole city is considered one hex, but for everyone else, each zone is considered a separate hex. The zones might themselves be actual hexes; I don't think that part is clear.


nah, that giant city hex is enclosing at least seven full table hexes, and another 9 or so partial hexes. that's too many zones for a city, especially since some city zones are stacked vertically anyway.

the explanation about 'zooming in' and ignoring the smaller hex seems right.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby scotchmonger » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:08 am

NoDesignation wrote:
zbeeblebrox wrote: Oh yeah, and it's interesting that the "red dot" forces (which I assume to be the dwagons) on the tabletop map are inside a smaller hex inside the city's hexgon. Aren't cities supposed to count as a single hex?


I noticed that too. I was assuming that because cities are more important and have more units inside them, and because they don't currently care about what's outside the city nearly as much, they simply "zoomed in." Notice the larger, portable, hex marker that sits around the city. The smaller hex is just a part of the table design and is currently being ignored in favor of the larger hex that's been placed on the table. I've done the same kind of thing when I've run games.



In comic, a city has never been referred to as a being a single hex. Movement rules for cities talk about zones not hexes. Move is only one aspect of the mechanics of a hex boundary, there's also attack mechanics (Unled stacks auto-engaging comes to mind), stacking and max hex occupancy (Wanda and Ansom's original attack force spread over 3 hexes), leadership and bonuses (Chief Warlord bonus increases in order -- small bonus to whole army, added bonus to whole hex, full bonus to personally led stack)

The simplest way to reconcile this is that each city is made of many hexes, those are grouped into zones, the zones combined form the whole city. All of GK's forces are stuck in a single hex within the city airspace. Per Jack, they can move within the airspace to be over either the tower or the courtyard but it's no help because the defenders can redeploy for free and engage from either tower or courtyard. There are no Jetstone forces within the exact same hex as GK but they can fill each of the six surrounding it with max stacks and attack from all sides in whatever order they choose.

Open to alternates but I feel this is solidly documented.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby I<3ChocolateMilk » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:09 am

Snowtitan wrote:
BCCroaker wrote:"Charlescomm's neutrality has never waived".
Surely that should "wavered".


Not so sure about that, in a contract, you can waive a clause, it may be an intentional misdirection.


Gramatically that should read as "been waived", if "neutrality" is to be considered to be the same as "clause".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby DevilDan » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:19 am

NoDesignation wrote:As for Tramennis, his foppish personality as opposed to his brothers has already been highlighted as an issue why his father isn't so gung ho on having him be chief warlord. That's more about gender than about sexuality (at least so far), but it is definitely a part of the plotline that interests me greatly.


I don't know that it's either. It's more of a question of temperament: Tramennis isn't the battle-loving, propaganda-spouting, divine-right espousing reactionary his brothers are or were.

On another note: When does Charlie lie in that conversation. Technically, just a statement that presents a negative image of someone can be slander. It doesn't have to be false, technically. And for all we know somebody is paying Charlie even now? :shock:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby zilfallon » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:47 am

"Charlescomm's neutrality has never waived".
Surely that should "wavered".


Well, if it comes to fixing small typos, then surely that should be "Surely that should BE "wavered" ".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 40

Postby Wender » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:52 am

Snowtitan wrote:
BCCroaker wrote:"Charlescomm's neutrality has never waived".
Surely that should "wavered".


Not so sure about that, in a contract, you can waive a clause, it may be an intentional misdirection.


If so, it's ungrammatical. Neutrality would be the clause, so it would never have been waived. In other words, the object is in the position of the subject, and the subject is missing.

One way or another, it's wrong. So if ambiguity was Charlie's goal, he succeeded.
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