Book 2 – Page 42

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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby sleepymancer » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:03 am

raphfrk wrote:
Abbacabba wrote:I wonder if a unit was captured could it then walk across a hex boundary. Being pulled in chains might be required. [my emphasis]


My guess is that physically being pulled would not be necessarily, the signamancy of wearing the chains (which, if i recall correctly, pop when a unit is captured) would probably be enough to signal that the unit can walk across hexes rather than being dragged.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby Unclever title » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:10 am

cdrcjsn wrote:
Smoker wrote:Parson is a Caster.
Supported by: Janis


I think this is also supported by the fact that Signamancy is a form of Hippiemancy.

And he used to work at Kinkos. Not only that, but he is also aware of the various "in jokes" that are prevalent in Erfworld, which can also be a form of signamancy.

He might just not know he can cast anything because he hasn't learned any spells yet.

Very good point, though it could explain other things, a couple alternatives: (WARNING! MASSIVE SPECULATION AHEAD)

Alternative One:

Janis may legitimately think Parson is a Hippiemancer based on info from this predictamancer who might have seen something of Parson's work at Kinkos and interpreted it as some form of signamancy when the predictamancer described him, this would entail that Janis knew about Parson's arrival in the MK before it happened which is likely because of how timely she arrived and how she handled the situation.


Alternative Two:

Erfworld looked at Parson's past while determining his stats and seeing that he worked at Kinkos doing what Erf viewed as signamancy decided he had some form of casting ability despite being the unit type "warlord" (or rather being cast as the unit type "warlord") and referenced this when Parson entered the Gobwin Knob-Magic Kingdom portal it decided that this was valid enough to allow him passage instead of disbanding him. So while technically being a warlord somewhere in Parson's unique "special" is a little bit of signamancy. This might imply that Archons can travel through portals to the Magic Kingdom.


These alternatives of course are not mutually exclusive.

Edit: You know what, neither of these alternatives are exactly exclusive from cdrcjsn's post nor are they really alternatives.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby raphfrk » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:35 am

Unclever title wrote:This might imply that Archons can travel through portals to the Magic Kingdom.


That would give another option for Parson.

All the archons are summoned to the portal room.

Parson, Sizemore and an archon walk through the portal. As soon as they arrive, Sizemore creates two walls to protect them from fire and create a path to Spacerocks, portal. If the archon didn't de-pop, he orders her to go get the others.

This means that they arrive in Spacerock with a large number of high grade sock troops and can kill any defense.

Alternatively, I wonder if Parson's "shield" could be extended to his stack.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby multilis » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:06 am

"All the archons are summoned to the portal room."

Who has 600 archons?

In GK case I think most of archons are with wanda already.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby The Black Hand » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:15 am

cdrcjsn wrote:
Smoker wrote:Parson is a Caster.
Supported by: Janis


I think this is also supported by the fact that Signamancy is a form of Hippiemancy.

And he used to work at Kinkos. Not only that, but he is also aware of the various "in jokes" that are prevalent in Erfworld, which can also be a form of signamancy.

He might just not know he can cast anything because he hasn't learned any spells yet.


On the other hand, considering that one of the services Kinko's offers is photocopying, it could also be a form of Dittomancy (especially as one of the older nicknames for a photocopier is a "ditto machine").
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby raphfrk » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:16 am

multilis wrote:"All the archons are summoned to the portal room."

Who has 600 archons?


I meant all GK's archons that are in the capital.

Presumably, some are still in GK since they are used as part of the dwagon harvesting plan.

Even if he only took 7 others (to make a full stack), his odds of survival would increase massively.
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And we walked uphill, BOTH ways...

Postby Spot » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:27 am

The Black Hand wrote:
On the other hand, considering that one of the services Kinko's offers is photocopying, it could also be a form of Dittomancy (especially as one of the older nicknames for a photocopier is a "ditto machine").



I remember when ditto machines were still used, and and it was about 10 years or so before photocopiers were in common use. To use one, you had to create a master copy of what you wanted to duplicate, with slightly raised lettering, and then the master copy went onto a drum-like device in the machine, and transferred blueish ink from the master copy to sheets of paper as they were fed through the machine.

The machine at my high school was powered, but I've seen some models that were hand-cranked... and this is from the late 1970s, early 1980s.

Ditto machines were what photocopiers(AKA: Xerox Machines) *replaced*... so not the same thing at all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby DevilDan » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:26 pm

Ah, I'd love to have an old mimeograph machine: the smell and look are unmistakable.
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Re: And we walked uphill, BOTH ways...

Postby The Black Hand » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:40 pm

Spot wrote:
The Black Hand wrote:
On the other hand, considering that one of the services Kinko's offers is photocopying, it could also be a form of Dittomancy (especially as one of the older nicknames for a photocopier is a "ditto machine").



I remember when ditto machines were still used, and and it was about 10 years or so before photocopiers were in common use. To use one, you had to create a master copy of what you wanted to duplicate, with slightly raised lettering, and then the master copy went onto a drum-like device in the machine, and transferred blueish ink from the master copy to sheets of paper as they were fed through the machine.

The machine at my high school was powered, but I've seen some models that were hand-cranked... and this is from the late 1970s, early 1980s.

Ditto machines were what photocopiers(AKA: Xerox Machines) *replaced*... so not the same thing at all.


Well, when I was in high school, a lot of the teachers referred to the photocopiers we had as "ditto machines" - hence why I thought it was just a nickname for photocopiers.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby John Campbell » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:45 pm

raphfrk wrote:Parson, Sizemore and an archon walk through the portal...

... The bartender says, "What is this, a joke?"


And mimeograph machines were in use in schools long after photocopiers became standard in better-funded venues.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby Lamech » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:54 pm

raphfrk wrote:Alternatively, I wonder if Parson's "shield" could be extended to his stack.
That would make sense if the portals were designed with allowing casters to take units they make in the kingdom out into the rest of Erf. But only for MK to elsewhere. If the leader of the stack is good to go through the portal the whole stack could leave the kingdom, allowing them to sell golems and such. And it of course would also depend on how the portal functions. If the portal tried to disband Parson, and couldn't I doubt his units would be protected. But if the portal glitched and never tried to disband Parson... that would make things much worse for Jetstone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby n01if3n3rd » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:50 pm

A speculation, but why not share it, eh?

Maggie and Sizemore link again, and begin shifting hexes around, so that GK and Spacerock are in the same hex, right before Prince Tramenis launches his attack. Wanda+Jack will survive the onslaught, while doing the most damage their stacks of dwagons will allow. Maggie+Sizemore will, once the two capitals are in the same hex, merge the walls of the two captials, so that all units stationed at , what was, GK, will be in, what was, Spacerock(Which I assume is a considerable force of Dwagons, Twolls, Hobgobwins, decrypted Arcons, and other various decrypted units. Wanda will decrypt all the fallen in her stack, then merge with the reinforcements from GK. Maggie and Sizemore will break link, then Maggie will link with Jack. The Thinkmancy+Foolmancy combo will be used on King Slately, preventing him from taking action. All of the other GK units will then begin the counterattack.

Alright, commence the hole poking. :mrgreen:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby Atomic » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:00 am

n01if3n3rd wrote:Alright, commence the hole poking. :mrgreen:

lol, as tin-foily as that idea is, it's a little bit too impossible to work. The whole idea of shifting hexes would be something that hasn't even been hinted at in the comic, not to mention the fact that if that were possible in Book One, Stanley wouldn't have fled from Gobwin Knob; he would've just had the capital transported to where the FAQ cities were located.

If Parson (or Ansom) had known about it, they would've used it on Gobwin Knob's last turn, rather than using their massive force of fliers. Or, you know, if that were possible in any way/shape/form, it'd be the only way of waging war in Erfworld:
Step 1 - Build up in your city
Step 2 - Teleport your massive army into your enemy's capital
Step 3 - ???
Step 4 - Profit!

Not to turn into PlotArmor or anything, but if that were the solution to the entire build up of the book, I'd probably be the first to cry "Du Ex Machina".

I'm not trying to be harsh or anything, but it's just as likely as the theory that "Parson lets himself be captured by Jetstone/turns to Jetstone and walks the entire way there", or "Sizemore tunnels under a few hundred hexes in a single turn and reinforcements emerge directly underneath Spacerock"... Both, although clever ideas, have had zero foreshadowing and strike me as poor writing, rather than the smooth literary devices we've been shown in the comic thus-far.

Not to say that those ideas wont happen, but I'll be more than upset if Parson uses a tactic which could've been used on their previous turn with equal/greater results. Whatever Parson is going to do, it needs to be something which will place himself (possibly the same for Sizemore/Maggie) in serious danger, doing something which no one else has ever thought of/been able to do before.

In my opinion, it's as simple as that... I gotta say though, I like how you think! ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby Urf » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:02 am

As much as we all want GK and Spacerock to fight already, I think Tramennis is on the edge of discovering he has MUCH MUCH MUCH more to gain by using parley to negotiate an allegiance with GK.

Jetstone lost two of its most expensive units to GK and they no cost no upkeep. GK is also the richest side in Erf, and Jetstone is dried up. Tramennis is getting royally (lol) fed up with all the secrets and subterfuge being enacted by Charlie and those allied with Jetstone, whereas GK is straightforward and would probably win anyway. Bucking his father and allying with GK gets Tram access to his brothers, GK funds, and some fucking answers.

Tramennis is proving to be the real wild card here. Let's see what the tie-dye is capable of.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby nth » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:48 am

Urf wrote:As much as we all want GK and Spacerock to fight already, I think Tramennis is on the edge of discovering he has MUCH MUCH MUCH more to gain by using parley to negotiate an allegiance with GK.


I took that to be the meaning of Tram's costume changes when talking with Charlie: He's starting to look like John Lennon because...
wait for it...
Rob's going to string us along until the last week of December, and then Tram and Parson will strike a deal.

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War is over (if you want it)"

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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby mortissimus » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:39 am

multilis wrote:"All the archons are summoned to the portal room."

Who has 600 archons?

In GK case I think most of archons are with wanda already.


Why, Charlie has lots of Archons. In fact, he is planning the ultimate win by letting them do beheading strikes on all capitols, one after another, through the portals, all on the same turn. He will raze them all so not have to worry about upkeep costs. However, the turn after this is done all sides left will have their portals buried, and ally against Charlie. He has calculated that ha just needs to have 700 archons first as there is a lot of capitols and he might loose some along the way. He is not sure about the calculations, therefore he wants the bracers.

This is why Charlie is so worried Parson will showcase this exploit before Charlie is ready to strike.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby DevilDan » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:26 pm

Archons aren't casters? Surely, if archons can get in so might any number of other units with casting abilities.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby CorrTerek » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:42 pm

DevilDan wrote:Archons aren't casters? Surely, if archons can get in so might any number of other units with casting abilities.


Quite so. And if they can, it'd be really odd that no one else had used that exploit before. Also, how exactly would you experiment with that, when it's likely that your first test run would also alert people that the exploit is possible?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby mortissimus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:44 am

CorrTerek wrote:
DevilDan wrote:Archons aren't casters? Surely, if archons can get in so might any number of other units with casting abilities.


Quite so. And if they can, it'd be really odd that no one else had used that exploit before.


Yes, it does seem unlikely. So I guess we can bury the latter part of this:

Unclever title wrote:So while technically being a warlord somewhere in Parson's unique "special" is a little bit of signamancy. This might imply that Archons can travel through portals to the Magic Kingdom.


Next question:

DevilDan wrote:Also, how exactly would you experiment with that, when it's likely that your first test run would also alert people that the exploit is possible?


Veiled units. Which the archons appear to be excellent examples of.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 42

Postby HandofShadows » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:27 am

build6 wrote:They were expecting the best possible warlord - but a "warlord" entirely within conventions. We don't know if the Magic Kingdom has a lot of knowledge or research into "all of creation", including things beyond Erf, such that they would have conceived of the possibility of someone from a world with completely different mechanics (like ours) in any way being possibly workable, much less perfect, as a warlord for Erf. Did Janis and Sizemore (or some facsimile thereof) ever sit around in a circle and chit chat about how "there's this really strange place, where the denizens actually play games, that bear a remarkable resemblance to how our world actually is?".


I wonder if Wanda's summoning Parson is in fact an accident of some sort. The poeple that crafted the spell certainly intended it to be used by one of them or at very least a Findamancer. But Wanda cast it and because she is not a Findamancer she unknowingly goes outside the spells intended function/limits. (Kinda like someone going and doing something because no one told them they couldn't do it.) As for Erfworlders talking about other worlds where people play games that look like their world, the only person we know that would even have a clue about that would be Wanda (she DID peek into Parson's mind).

On a connected note this may be a reason that Wanda is so confident that whatever Parson came up with will work. I suspect that Wanda knows that she was not given the whole story and knows Parson is going to do something, even if she does not know what.
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