Book 2 – Text Updates 032

[SteveMB]

Remember that Charlie is, at heart, a mercenary. He wants to destroy GK, destroy/capture the decrypted Archons, and get Parson and the bracer. And he would like to be paid to do so.

His rules of not giving out information without compensation is deeply ingrained into him and his Archons. He so desperately wants to help but does not want to get a reputation of doing anything for free or else folks will expect that from him in the future.

Also (as he mentioned in one of his conversations with Parson), it's difficult for him to give away information even if he wants to do so, because it makes the recipient suspicious.

[danhaas]

So, what happens when an ally breaks alliance during their side's turn, if that's possible? Does the ally end turn because they no longer belong to that side's turn, or do we have a real time battle?

[Decorus]

Charlie does not need to read thinkagrams to come to the conclusion that Parleying with Parson is a bad idea on an epic scale as his own communications with Parson have gone horribly wrong. How ever back to the matter at hand.

1. Charlie told her that her not following orders is going to cause Jetstone to fall. (Not killing Wanda when she had the chance instead capturing Ansom allowing Parson to become CW again.
http://www.erfworld.com/page/7/
2. Charlie told her that Jetstone was going to fall and if wanted to see how she should turn around and go back. There is nothing Jillian can do at this point to change this result. Despite her thoughts Charlie wasn't telling her to go back to Jetstone so they could win, he was telling her to go back to Jetstone to see how much of an EPIC THREAT Parson is.
3. Duncan found Jillian's biggest weakness her need to prove other people aren't controling her.
4. Just because Jillian is super paranoid does not mean Charlie can mind control people while in a thinkagram with them, but that doesn't mean he can't manipulate them just by talking with them without Thinkamancy.

5. Take one Thinkamancer link it to One Foolamancer then have thier combined magical might turn the enemy archers on each other.....

[Raza]

So who's the guy with the pinguin coat and the 'fro with a little hat on the gwiffon behind Duncan and Jillian?

[cdrcjsn]

I still think the code to break is "food fight". We have to think in pop culture cliché.

In food fights, someone always ducks and hits a random passerby, who retaliates by striking the wrong culprit, and the instigator often gets out by crawling under tables.

Can Parson do something to artillery to change the intended target? Or force Spacerock's natural allies to break with their faction?

I think this is overthinking it a bit.

We've learned that food can be popped at the beginning of the turn or harvested from certain units like sourmanders (we haven't been told if there is a timing restriction to this).

We've learned that objects can fall to the ground out of turn.

I think what we're going to see is that some dragons are going to be harvested for food, fall to the ground, and then decrypted.

[Lamech]

I still think the code to break is "food fight". We have to think in pop culture cliché.

In food fights, someone always ducks and hits a random passerby, who retaliates by striking the wrong culprit, and the instigator often gets out by crawling under tables.

Can Parson do something to artillery to change the intended target? Or force Spacerock's natural allies to break with their faction?

Or does "falling" inhibit artillery aim —can Wanda's strikeforce "fall" and charge the enemy? Can a unit's Move be enacted during a Fall?

Oh, and what happens to artillery fashioned by a Dollamancer if the Dollamancer in question changes sides?

I do like the idea of retaliation at the wrong target. I think that is in fact very likely with Parson's plan to attack Jetstone. Lets review the forces in Spacerock and their motives and ablities:
Jetstone forces loyal to Jetstone; they probably don't like Haggar all that much. And of course perfectly capable of attacking Haggar.
Haggar forces, on the ground and capable of hitting Jetstone units; Haggar believes that someone blackmailed them via Charlie, and probably suspect that Jetstone either is okay with it or did it themselves. Also, they possess the well known desire to attack Jetstone and take their capital.
GK forces are trapped and helpless as everyone knows.

Now Parson attacks some target he can beat and kills it. Either a Haggar unit or a Jetstone unit. Who will the victim blame? The enemy which they belive is capable of attacking or the enemy they belive is trapped and helpless?

Lamech, even if Charlie gave specific intel for Jillian, or any other reasonable argument, she wouldn't return to Spacerock. She didn't go there to save Jetstone nor to stop Wanda, she went there to retrieve Ansom and offer Wanda another chance to defect. You have to remember the love triangle from book 1 and how Jillian puts both her lovers above all else, and that killing Wanda could turn Ansom to dust.

Umm... at the end of the thinkagram her first instinct was to return to Jetstone. Duncan managed to talk her out of it by referencing the suggestion and saying that GK was in a hopeless situation; an argument made much more sound by the complete lack of any reason, even a fabricated one, to return.

[ftl]

I still think the code to break is "food fight". We have to think in pop culture cliché.

In food fights, someone always ducks and hits a random passerby, who retaliates by striking the wrong culprit, and the instigator often gets out by crawling under tables.

Can Parson do something to artillery to change the intended target? Or force Spacerock's natural allies to break with their faction?

I think this is overthinking it a bit.

We've learned that food can be popped at the beginning of the turn or harvested from certain units like sourmanders (we haven't been told if there is a timing restriction to this).

We've learned that objects can fall to the ground out of turn.

I think what we're going to see is that some dragons are going to be harvested for food, fall to the ground, and then decrypted.

I'm not convinced that's overthinking it.

Urf's interpretation also lends itself to a simple tactic - fall to the ground in the midst of a huge clump of units, foolamancy-disguise your own infantry and warlords (the guys who were mounted on those 30 dwagons) as Jetstone infantry and vice versa, make a massive chaotic free-for-all where nobody knows whose infantry are whose, Wanda walks around the carnage decrypting things (and Jack continues to make those things look like the enemy). Net result - everybody ally and enemy alike... leaving Wanda on the ground, with enough of a contingent of decrypted to take the garrison by ground, even after probably losing all of the dwagons (twice).

[Kizmet]

Everyone is making this so complicated...

- Dwagons can fall (witness Parson's failed flight attempt).
- Crash a Dwagon into a tightly packed enemy formation... lots of dead enemy. (Dwagon even has a 2 in 3 chance of surviving the crash)
- Wanda decrypts the newly dead formation.
- Rinse Repeat until no enemy units remain.

[Urf]

I really think all the worrying about how Parson is getting to Jetstone is clouding the issue of how is Wanda going to avoid an entire Dittomanced battalion of Archers from shooting her out of the sky.

Whatever it is, it will combine all the exploits and things Parson's learned about Erf mechanics thus far. It's doubtful the author would pull a deus ex machina and invent a gamechanger on the fly. So we have the mechanics and risks involved with a "fall", exploiting Natural Allies to a side, decryption as a way to double a unit's hit points and uncroaking as a way to rapidly turn enemies into allies, etc etc. The clues are all there.

[Lamech]

I really think all the worrying about how Parson is getting to Jetstone is clouding the issue of how is Wanda going to avoid an entire Dittomanced battalion of Archers from shooting her out of the sky.

I think that the room where the archers are gathering might suddenly have its ceiling collaspe; due to circumstances that are totally plausibly related to something other than a dirtamancy trap being activated above the room. (Like Haggar collasping the ceiling.) Then maybe the dittomancer will die in the ensuing confusion where Haggar and Jetstone are blaming each other.

[Raza]

I don't think there's any Haggar forces in Spacerock? They buggered off back home with their tails between their legs, most likely. Nothing's been said about them joining Trammenis in defending Jetstone's capital.

[effataigus]

Well, if we're using the "bystanders get blamed and wrapped up into the fight" definition of food fight, then another possible "side" could be any MK would-be peacekeepers that attempt to chase Parson through the JS portal. It doesn't seem likely to me that they would follow him through the portal, but, if they did, I could very easily see an on-edge Ace coming across them and gunning a couple down in surprise (especially if the battle down below got confusing enough).

All I know for certain is, between the falling dudes, the predicted mass chaos, the INEVITABLE sundering of the glass roof, the probable assault through the MK portals, the likely abuse of spawning and turning natural allies, the likely foolmancy, the possible decryption of food, and whatever Cubbins and Ace manage to pull out of a hat... this battle is going to be AWESOME. And, probably, a heck of a thing to draw. I'm excited... t'as been a long time in the coming

[Shinsei]

So.. I take it I'm the only one whose still a loyal Charlie fan?

[chanman]

It would explain why Parson was so obtuse when speaking to Jack about the plan.

I was thinking that was for our benefit. If the readers have the plan laid out for them then there's no surprise for us when it happens. Like, what if we'd been told that a Turnamancer could end GK's turn? That'd have taken a lot of the drama out.

I was just thinking, that in Parson's shoes, after having the eyebooks hacked by Charlie, and then with him using his bracer to answer predictive questions on both the Gobwins and the value of future decisions (Charlie's calc), how many nanoseconds likely elapsed between Parson's realization of the bracer's power and a torrent of questions about Charlie's likely abilities?

[slayn82]

From the previous thread

he will garrisson a tower from the city full of golems and infantry and whatever else, and use a link of Maggie+Sizemore to shape the terrain under the tower, moving the building with the land. Sizemore maybe could only affect a couple hexes at once, but being linked could give him enought juice or reduce the costs enought for him to pull it until Jetstone.

It would fit nicelly with Parson's simulations of "land ships", would be an inventive use of dirtamancy traps, and if that hex with the tower would end up being considered GK's area, maybe even block arrows, or at least provide physical cover to units. And since its Sizemore, having an entire tower sneaking underground only to rise suddenly in the middle of the enemy Capital is on the table.

Yes, but. Once again. It. is. not. GK's. turn!

And now, Jillian is heading straight to attack a GK controlled city, an instance where casters are allowed to cast out of their turn.

I'm still waiting for that special ball of crap to fall on Jillian's oh-so-deserved head.

I think its going to be very soon, a Parson vs Jillian battle.

[CorrTerek]

I was just thinking, that in Parson's shoes, after having the eyebooks hacked by Charlie, and then with him using his bracer to answer predictive questions on both the Gobwins and the value of future decisions (Charlie's calc), how many nanoseconds likely elapsed between Parson's realization of the bracer's power and a torrent of questions about Charlie's likely abilities?

That...would actually be a pretty smart thing to do. If Parson hasn't done this, I hope we at least get a reason why not.

[ftl]

I was just thinking, that in Parson's shoes, after having the eyebooks hacked by Charlie, and then with him using his bracer to answer predictive questions on both the Gobwins and the value of future decisions (Charlie's calc), how many nanoseconds likely elapsed between Parson's realization of the bracer's power and a torrent of questions about Charlie's likely abilities?

That...would actually be a pretty smart thing to do. If Parson hasn't done this, I hope we at least get a reason why not.

Or, he has done this and the information it has given him hasn't been useful.

[CorrTerek]

Or, he has done this and the information it has given him hasn't been useful.

I wonder how that would work. Wouldn't any information be useful?

[dannom]

cloudbreaker wrote:

It will be a long time before we find out, but I'm willing to bet that Jillian surprises Duncan by letting him remain the chief warlord even after the new heir pops. She was never much into the royalty thing.

The situation might be more surprising that that.

Spoiler: show

We know that when warlords pop there is a chance of a caster. Faq has not popped a caster yet, so they're over due. Also, by then Parson should have things under control in Jetstone. Faq and its allies would really need a strong caster then to help re-balance things a bit.

[Neko]

cloudbreaker wrote:

It will be a long time before we find out, but I'm willing to bet that Jillian surprises Duncan by letting him remain the chief warlord even after the new heir pops. She was never much into the royalty thing.

The situation might be more surprising that that.

Spoiler: show

We know that when warlords pop there is a chance of a caster. Faq has not popped a caster yet, so they're over due. Also, by then Parson should have things under control in Jetstone. Faq and its allies would really need a strong caster then to help re-balance things a bit.

True - things often skip a generation, and I remember someone speculating that happening as an interesting piece of irony in Jillian's lineage.