Book 2 – Page 43

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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby gazes_also » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:15 pm

ftl wrote:
gazes_also wrote:How terribly predictable of Tramennis; Charlie tells him it's far too dangerous for him to talk to Parson, so that's what he plans to do.
Charlie appears to be so scared that he's turned in to a blabbermouth, telling Tram everything - I don't believe that for a second. If Charlie had really wanted Tram not to talk to Parson, couldn't he have implanted the suggestion? He dangled the bait and Tram took it.

How would he have implanted the suggestion? I don't think we've yet seen a reason to believe that charlie can manipulate people *that* easily. (Somebody calling Charlie means Charlie can implant a suggestion to do what he wants - a bit unsupported at the moment. (Though, to be fair, Charlie *might* always get new powers out of his charlie hat.) )


Read the last update.

I've read it, what about it? That update doesn't say that Charlie can do suggestions.

The last update involves Jillian being strangely terrified of suggestions, for reasons Duncan doesn't understand. (However, since we as readers have seen more of Jillian's past than he has, we have more info than he does - Jillian's probably still very touchy about being under Wanda's mind-control for a while back at TBfGK.) We don't see Charlie either casting a suggestion via thinkagram or even trying to do so or even threatening to do so. Another character being worried about such things might be evidence, but Jillian has obvious extra reasons for her paranoia that aren't connected to what Charlie can *actually* do.


Point is, the update introduces the possibility that Charlie could do it, this raises it as a potential plot point, so it may be relevant to another character who has also just finished a call to Charlie. Plot symmetry and parsomony both tend to support my view.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Vreejack » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:24 pm

I really love Xin's art, but I think her profiles get a bit pushed-in, as Tramennis's does in the last panel. It's actually very slight here but all the other points of view seem fine. She has done this before, but not being a serious artist myself I was never sure what the problem was, only that it looked odd. I think she neglected to draw the bridge to Tramennis's nose.

http://www.erfworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/vol2_026_Web_900.jpg has a similar problem with Jillian in the penultimate panel with an almost identical pose. It looks jarring to me, like Jillian has lost her 3-D existence and taken on a fixed rubber-stamp 2-D pose in a different cartoony style under another artist's hand.

Other artists do this, too, with heads that look fine five degrees out of profile but somehow odd when they snap to it. I wonder if it is because of a tendency to revert to juvenile skills when drawing a pose that was greatly practiced when the artist was just learning.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby 5HT » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:52 pm

Could the Rainbowing and tyedying of Trem be hippiemancy? Maybe that's why he wants to offer surrender.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Nihila » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:56 pm

5HT wrote:Could the Rainbowing and tyedying of Trem be hippiemancy? Maybe that's why he wants to offer surrender.
Tram doesn't want to surrender. He wants to negotiate. He wants to talk, to bargain, to gain power for Jetstone. And he doesn't really care about Charlescomm. If Charlie was using hippiemancy, he's a terrible hippiemancer. Thing is, Tram is trying to get more power to Jetstone, and he thinks "Perfect Warlord"="POWAH! UNLIMITED POWAH!" or something similar. Charlie says that he shouldn't talk, but what sticks in Tram's diplomat mind is "talk."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Lamech » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:15 pm

Could the Rainbowing and tyedying of Trem be hippiemancy? Maybe that's why he wants to offer surrender.


He's not surrendering. He is basically offering 70ish dwagons and various warlords, for peace, a crapton of shmuckers and one of the major strengths of GK. Its actually rather bold, "so you could crush us even if we still had a coalition which we don't, but hey want to pay us for peace?" Thats like the oppisite of surrender. Thats not even a simple cease-fire.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Kender Wizard » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:39 pm

As to whether the dwagon taming is still going on, that is rather dependent on archons being available to scout for Stanley. Has anyone done a headcount to determine how many archons are with Wanda at the moment? It seems rather few, so this is almost certainly a moot point. Too, if there was one thing that Stanley would refuse to give up, it would be his means of maintaining equivalent power with Wanda. So, the archons with Wanda were probably just extras....
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby cloudbreaker » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:47 pm

Kender Wizard wrote:As to whether the dwagon taming is still going on, that is rather dependent on archons being available to scout for Stanley. Has anyone done a headcount to determine how many archons are with Wanda at the moment? It seems rather few, so this is almost certainly a moot point. Too, if there was one thing that Stanley would refuse to give up, it would be his means of maintaining equivalent power with Wanda. So, the archons with Wanda were probably just extras....

There are at least twenty archons with Wanda right now.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Ansan Gotti » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:05 am

I am envisioning a parley between Tramennis and Parson a la some of the classic horror movies. At the end of the call, Parson says something ominous, and Tramennis hangs up, and then Slately looks at him in horror, "Wait, he's IN THE HOUSE!"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby CorrTerek » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:14 am

Ansan Gotti wrote:I am envisioning a parley between Tramennis and Parson a la some of the classic horror movies. At the end of the call, Parson says something ominous, and Tramennis hangs up, and then Slately looks at him in horror, "Wait, he's IN THE HOUSE!"


Knowing Parson, it's more likely to be something like, "I'm in ur base, killin ur doods." But then, I'm pretty sure that's already been done.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby joosy » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:20 am

Ansan Gotti wrote:I am envisioning a parley between Tramennis and Parson a la some of the classic horror movies. At the end of the call, Parson says something ominous, and Tramennis hangs up, and then Slately looks at him in horror, "Wait, he's IN THE HOUSE!"


.. and when they traced the packet they found it was coming from 127.0.0.0!!! (Horror stories adapted for nerds)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:10 am

ftl wrote:Your speculations aren't really relevant, I think. Tramennis is talking from the assumption that he'll be able to beat the air force and TAKE the arkenpliers and croak Wanda, regardless of whether GK wants it or not. His negotiation is pretty much contingent on being able to do that. If that's NOT the case, there's no reason for GK to agree to any sort of restrictive terms at all. The alternative you offer isn't one that will happen, because IF Tram gets the upper hand, he'll be in a position to demand much more than that, but if GK gets the upper hand, they'll be in a position to concede a whole lot less.


What I'm proposing isn't favorable to GK; it's inspired by the observations that (1) there might not be any non-decrypted GK commanders (except Jack, and he may not live long) at Spacerock to whom Stanley could issue an order that would countermand Wanda's decisions; and (2) Wanda may not be loyal to Stanley. Especially if Parson is intercepted in the MK, Wanda might be in a position to ensure that any deal includes keeping her, the Arkenpliers and the Arkenhammer together, even if all other GK units at Spacerock are lost.

Trammenis is contemplating offering to give back Jack and all the warlords (including his brother), dwagons, and knights. If someone pointed out that he could end decryption by binding Wanda to forever forego croakamancy, he might prefer to give back only Wanda and the Arkenpliers; keep Jack, Ossomer, and Sylvia for later turning; and croak all the dwagons and knights. Perhaps Wanda could even order her decrypted units (including Jack - croaked by Ossomer) to turn to Jetstone as part of the deal.

Or how about selling un-croakamancied Wanda & Arkenpliers to Charlie? ...perhaps without telling him about the neutering, for extra lulz. She might go for that because it would still be two Arkentools together, and because it might provoke a war that would consolidate the pliers, hammer and dish under either Charlie or GK. Jetstone could even take her on a tour of GK cities, using her control of the decrypted to flip them to Jetstone, before handing her over to Charlie.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby ftl » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:43 am

CorrTerek wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:I am envisioning a parley between Tramennis and Parson a la some of the classic horror movies. At the end of the call, Parson says something ominous, and Tramennis hangs up, and then Slately looks at him in horror, "Wait, he's IN THE HOUSE!"


Knowing Parson, it's more likely to be something like, "I'm in ur base, killin ur doods." But then, I'm pretty sure that's already been done.


In book one, it was "I'm in mah base, killin ur doods." But yeah, I like your proposed twist :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby reteo » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:34 am

I'd like to add a possibility to this discussion.

If you will recall, Jillian was the first person Charlie talked to, and then, after hanging up on Jillian, he started talking to Tramennis. During this time, Jillian began talking about the conversation she had with Duncan. She was pretty distracted until Duncan suggested there was a way to prove she wasn't under a suggestion. She snapped out of her funk and decided to continue her current course of action.

Now, if there was no suggestion, this may mean nothing, but keep in mind that if a suggestion is in place, and it's broken, it can rebound back on the caster... it can either render them incapacitated or dead. Perhaps, if Jillian was under a suggestion, and she broke out of it again, the force of the rebound could have snapped back, the dish might have mitigated the damage, but left Charlie somewhat disoriented enough to make mistakes, like... say... giving the information of our erstwhile protagonist to Tramennis in a panic?

In this way, the information given to Tramennis was legitimate, and not only not a manipulative goad, but the result of a broken suggestion.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Direcoyote » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:13 am

Something Maggie pointed out in the first book is that skilled Thinkamancers are able to shield themselves from rebound happening. It's more telling that Jillian's head didn't explode.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby I<3ChocolateMilk » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:16 am

joosy wrote:.. and when they traced the packet they found it was coming from 127.0.0.0!!! (Horror stories adapted for nerds)

I lolled.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby I<3ChocolateMilk » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:26 am

Tramennis wrote:Perhaps execute her to be sure.

Perhaps, Tram?
Or perhaps turn her so that you can exploit her attunement?

I mean, someone like you would be sure about what you wanted to do, right?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Urf » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:20 am

Tram only said things his father would find attractive. Like trading Decrypted Princes for schmuckers.

I anticipated an allegiance as well, but I worry that Charlie is exploiting Tramennis' diplomatic nature.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Kizmet » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:05 am

Curiosity killed the Tramennis.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby robak » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:25 am

joosy wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:I am envisioning a parley between Tramennis and Parson a la some of the classic horror movies. At the end of the call, Parson says something ominous, and Tramennis hangs up, and then Slately looks at him in horror, "Wait, he's IN THE HOUSE!"


.. and when they traced the packet they found it was coming from 127.0.0.0!!! (Horror stories adapted for nerds)

127.0.0.1
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Re: Book 2 – Page 43

Postby Guppy » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:17 am

robak wrote:
joosy wrote:and when they traced the packet they found it was coming from 127.0.0.0!!! (Horror stories adapted for nerds)

127.0.0.1

:lol: *Thbpppt* Nerd!
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