Book 2 – Page 44

[imgran]

I think you people're giving Trem too little credit. His judgement isn't bad for what he knows, and curiosity is generally a desirable trait. It's only because we know more than he does (Charlie didn't tell him why he should be worried here specifically, only tried to generally scare him into playing safe) that his choice seems stupid.

"Charlie might just be afraid of that power falling into 'the wrong hands'; Jetstone allying with Gobwin Knob" - that was a stretch of logic, afaic. But what he's displaying here is mostly justifiable optimism.
More like too near by, I think. But not impossible.

Yeah, I'm sorry, not buying.

See the thing is, factors well within Tram's sphere of understanding should have cautioned him not to risk putting King Slately anywhere but in the safest, most secure hidden secret compartment in all of Spacerock. Until there's an heir the single most inexpendable thing on the entire Jetstone side is the life of King Slately. If he goes in some kind of unanticipated suicide strike the side ends. And Trem knows, he KNOWS, he's been TOLD and he's SEEN it with his own eyes, that Gobwin Knob plays tricks with parley on a very regular basis.

About the last place in Erfworld Slately should be is anywhere CLOSE to a single Gobwin Knob unit. The decision to put his father within striking range of something unanticipated against a side that excels at the unanticipated is idiotic no matter how you slice it.

[Raza]

Yeah, I'm sorry, not buying.

See the thing is, factors well within Tram's sphere of understanding should have cautioned him not to risk putting King Slately anywhere but in the safest, most secure hidden secret compartment in all of Spacerock. Until there's an heir the single most inexpendable thing on the entire Jetstone side is the life of King Slately. If he goes in some kind of unanticipated suicide strike the side ends. And Trem knows, he KNOWS, he's been TOLD and he's SEEN it with his own eyes, that Gobwin Knob plays tricks with parley on a very regular basis.

They've played a single trick with parley so far, the use of which Trem just ruled out in-comic. He also countered the one known option the dwagon force has to attack tower units. Every known risk has been accounted for.

About the last place in Erfworld Slately should be is anywhere CLOSE to a single Gobwin Knob unit. The decision to put his father within striking range of something unanticipated against a side that excels at the unanticipated is idiotic no matter how you slice it.

How do you get out of the striking range of an unanticipated attack?

This strikes me as absurd. If you are completely unable to anticipate a form of attack, you do not know what its range would be. Distance is associated with safety only through the known rules of conventional forms of attack, which are currently prohibited by turn and hex boundaries.

This is further demonstrated by the fact that Parson is about to unanticipatedly walk into spacerock, and leaving Slately alone in his study could prove to be just as fatal.

[ftl]

I'm pretty sure Charlie wanted Tramennis to talk to Parson. If Tram gets Jetstone in trouble because of his desire to talk to Parson, they'd have to pay Charlie to survive, at least for a while.

I don't think Jetstone HAS any money to pay Charlie. They already talked about eating their own sourmanders for rations. No, Charlie can't get any money out of Jetstone at the moment.

[Hiai]

Ah the Art of Badassery is sweet indeed!

Loving the little details shown as Parson arms himself grimly, to Tram's bubbly, self-congratulating voiceover. The contrast is very well-played.

Predictably, all of our lovely forum nerds have identified most of the gear Parson is equipping. Thank you all. However, no one seems to have nailed down a few things. The Tattered Cape, is that the epic Tattered Cape of Antonidas? Or is it more subtle and dissappointing, the Tattered Cloak of Berberova's depressing story? And how about those boots? Are those the same tricksy boots of Puss in Boots fame? Or are those the unfortunate Sir Henry's boots? I suspect, given the nature of what's going on, that both items are the former rather than the latter, adding to the general badassery that is taking place.

On a weird side note...when I was looking at that last "Parson full frontal" panel I suddenly had a weird daydream-like flash of Parson, in full newly-equipped battle gear, dropping into the dance-fighting stance Wanda began when leading the uncroaked in the Thriller dance, yet the uhn-thiss uhn-thiss background of Ansom's Archon-displayed dance pose. How the HELL do these things get into my head!?!!?!? And how badass would it be if Parson decided to dance fight? Can you see him Cabbage-Patching up to Tramennis as clearly as I can?? lol

Edit: Oh God, as soon as I posted that, I SAW Parson and Sizemore with grim smiles on their faces, doing the Electric Slide, surrounded by Sizemore's golems, in front of an astonished and fearful Tramennis, with Slately cowering back....

Re-Edit: Robak, you are one sick, sick, awesome person. You have a talent for finding the exact mind-worm images that I will never ever shake off...

[Nihila]

About the cloak Parson's wearing... For some reason, when I saw it again, I thought "Pit Bull." No idea why, but it does have the horns, so "Bull," maybe. I think that Parson is literally trying to turn a hamster into a pit bull here.

[Chris Goodwin]

Parson Gotti is...

...the Warhamster.

[Anias]

It's poorly done (I don't have Photoshop, nor any knowledge of how to display it better) but it had to be done...

[gameboy1234]

I still don't think he's going to use the portals to the MK, because he wouldn't want to alienate more people than he has to.

Reasonable, but I think Parson is more committed to the fight than he is to the MK. GK is on poor relations now, they can't even get scrolls. So making things worse doesn't seem that bad. Worse than zero is still zero.

I think the outcome is what Janis has a prediction on: the other sides will see how dangerous the portals are, and wall them off. No one, or very few, will have access to the MK after that. Just one more way that Parson is going to break Erfworld.

[danhaas]

And how about those boots? Are those the same tricksy boots of Puss in Boots fame? Or are those the unfortunate Sir Henry's boots?

The boots were made by Bogroll.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/037.jpg

[Crisis21]

Wow. Parson is loaded for beaw.

I believe you mean Barr!

This is such an awesome comic. I think that is the armory of my dreams!

Nope. I was attempting to remain true to Erfworld animal names.

[imgran]

Yeah, I'm sorry, not buying.

See the thing is, factors well within Tram's sphere of understanding should have cautioned him not to risk putting King Slately anywhere but in the safest, most secure hidden secret compartment in all of Spacerock. Until there's an heir the single most inexpendable thing on the entire Jetstone side is the life of King Slately. If he goes in some kind of unanticipated suicide strike the side ends. And Trem knows, he KNOWS, he's been TOLD and he's SEEN it with his own eyes, that Gobwin Knob plays tricks with parley on a very regular basis.

They've played a single trick with parley so far, the use of which Trem just ruled out in-comic. He also countered the one known option the dwagon force has to attack tower units. Every known risk has been accounted for.

No there isn't. The risk of an unexpected trick is a known risk, even if what specifically the trick is, is itself unknown. You CAN prepare yourself for the unanticipated by taking reasonable precautions to minimize risk of loss. You're never going to keep crap from happening altogether, but you can put yourself in a position where, if the enemy comes up with something powerful enough to overwhelm your precautions, then they were probably going to win no matter what. Tramennis has not done this. Instead he's putting the survival of his side on the balcony beside him for the parley. What he should be guarding with the lives of every man and woman in Spacerock looks like it's going to be right in the front lines if things go backwards for him.

About the last place in Erfworld Slately should be is anywhere CLOSE to a single Gobwin Knob unit. The decision to put his father within striking range of something unanticipated against a side that excels at the unanticipated is idiotic no matter how you slice it.

How do you get out of the striking range of an unanticipated attack?

By securing Slately. That way, the unanticipated attack would not be able to find him to target him. That way if GK is going to play tricks and crap goes fanward, it might still be possible to get the king to safety and continue to side. If he's in play when the fun begins, it may well be curtains for Jetstone. Even Trem seems to be recognizing that that risk exists, even if he believes he can manage it. But why gamble with the life of your entire side when you don't have to?

In any situation that doesn't involve true scry-and-die (in which case you're screwed regardless) securing Slately and placing him outside the spot range of all known GK units is the smartest thing Tram can do, and bringing him out on the balcony within spot range of all known GK units is consequently the dumbest.

[Sieggy]

Actually, it might be something completely different. I have to wonder what transpired between Janis and the Predictamancer while Sizemore was waiting for her to return. I suspect she got back, found him gone, and realized that what hoped for / feared most / had just been warned about was coming down RIGHT NOW! I suspect she'll try to intercept him before he makes it through the portal to relay some important message or warning, and failing that, will then facilitate whatever it is that Parson is planning. Possibly at great cost to her own self. Janis may well be the price to be paid for Parson's victory . . .

I doubt that all portals will be walled off; I think GKs will simply be laid face down on the floor so whoever tries to come through gets squashed in the same way that trying to come through the Stargate with the iris closed gets converted to quantum paste.

[the_tick_rules]

I dunno, MK's neutrality policy might means they don't play mean like that. Well most of the time.

[Atomic]

Instead he's putting the survival of his side on the balcony beside him for the parley. What he should be guarding with the lives of every man and woman in Spacerock looks like it's going to be right in the front lines if things go backwards for him.

The first half of your paragraph made little/no sense, and I felt like you were just arguing with yourself, so I cut that out... But I fail to see how Tramennis is jeopardizing Jetstone/Spacerock. Of course, I'm not certain how the 'Cwaping' of the tower will work out, but I'd bet good money if the tower goes down, it's curtains for Slately regardless of his position inside... But more on that below.

By securing Slately. That way, the unanticipated attack would not be able to find him to target him. That way if GK is going to play tricks and crap goes fanward, it might still be possible to get the king to safety and continue to side. If he's in play when the fun begins, it may well be curtains for Jetstone. Even Trem seems to be recognizing that that risk exists, even if he believes he can manage it. But why gamble with the life of your entire side when you don't have to?

In any situation that doesn't involve true scry-and-die (in which case you're screwed regardless) securing Slately and placing him outside the spot range of all known GK units is the smartest thing Tram can do, and bringing him out on the balcony within spot range of all known GK units is consequently the dumbest.

Now, assuming the Erfworldians know how the mechanics of their world works (similar to how we would know how a car works), we can start by assuming that Tramennis isn't banking on the Dwagons having poor aim: If he thinks Slately is safe on the balcony, he's safe. Don't forget that's where Slately AND Vanna were standing when Wanda entered into the hex; not hiding in an underground bunker...

So, once we've covered that Slately/Tramennis know a thing or two about their world, we can also assume that Tramennis isn't going to get anywhere near a Gobwin Knob unit OR their possibly veiled mounts after hearing about the trickery implemented at tBfGK; just on the off-chance a Yellow Dwagon is hiding underneath a veil.

Actually, as we're likely to see unfold over the next dozen or so updates, Tramennis taking Slately WITH HIM just might save the faction... Call it meta-gaming or genre-savviness, or omnipotence, but Slately is a thousand times safer on that balcony than alone (or guarded by a few low-level mooks) in his office. Tramennis is clearly underestimating the cleverness of Parson, but he isn't stupid by any means; he just didn't realize that portal-hopping was even an option.

[valce]

Other people have brought this up before, but again -- GK is already cut off from MK services. if Parson survives through the Magic Kingdom he could cause other sides to distrust them and not use their services, levelling the playing field and maybe causing other sides to destroy their portals.

Of course, this could backfire when a desperate MK offers services for far less than market value or sides against GK, but that's a question for another day.

[Lamech]

No there isn't. The risk of an unexpected trick is a known risk, even if what specifically the trick is, is itself unknown. You CAN prepare yourself for the unanticipated by taking reasonable precautions to minimize risk of loss. You're never going to keep crap from happening altogether, but you can put yourself in a position where, if the enemy comes up with something powerful enough to overwhelm your precautions, then they were probably going to win no matter what. Tramennis has not done this. Instead he's putting the survival of his side on the balcony beside him for the parley. What he should be guarding with the lives of every man and woman in Spacerock looks like it's going to be right in the front lines if things go backwards for him.

Tram will secure the king against all predictable risks. He can't plan for unexpected risks, and unforseeable attacks. And regardless the balcony surrounded by units is safer than anywhere else in the tower from Parson. It will be heavily watched during the coming battle, as will the walls below since archers could fire from them. If he was left in the stufy Parson would almost certainly just walk in the study and croak him. Or simply place a dirtamancy trap above or below.

The king is secured against what Tram can anticipate. Tram can do nothing against the completely unknown except for get lucky; and he did luck out it appears.

[oslecamo2]

Tram will secure the king against all predictable risks. He can't plan for unexpected risks, and unforseeable attacks. And regardless the balcony surrounded by units is safer than anywhere else in the tower from Parson. It will be heavily watched during the coming battle, as will the walls below since archers could fire from them. If he was left in the stufy Parson would almost certainly just walk in the study and croak him. Or simply place a dirtamancy trap above or below.

The king is secured against what Tram can anticipate. Tram can do nothing against the completely unknown except for get lucky; and he did luck out it appears.

See, that's why Jetstone has been losing hard.

Ansom walks into GK with massive number advantage. What's the worst that can happen?
Volcano explodes under his feets, that's the worst that could happen.

Ossomer puts the brute of his army in a choke point to block the enemy land forces. What's the worst that could happen?
Enemy army actualy is flier-heavy and hidden by foolmancy, that's the worst that could happen.

Trams will take his father to parley with the enemy who regularly pulls out cheesy combos out of their asses, be it volcanos, dirtmancy/shockmancy traps, two arkentools and the supreme warlord. What's the worst that could happen?
He should've learned by now, since both his brothers died for playing "fair".

Hamster thinks outside the box, and that's why his side is still standing Hamster plans for the unforeseeable and unexepected. Even when Charlie pulled out turn-ending trick leaving their army locked in the air, Hamster had a contigency plan for that.

[CaptC]

Anyone heard anything from Transylvito lately?

Not that I expect them to go all 7th Cavalry on the situation, or anything, but I don't think I've ever been clear on why they seem to be out of the picture for this battle.

I too find it interesting that Transylvito is sitting this one out. I think it more likely that Jillian will be the cavalry coming over the hill to save the day. But there's no reason there can't be two troops of cavalry, and if Transylvito jumps in, Jillian and Caesar get to continue their feud.

[Raza]

See, that's why Jetstone has been losing hard.

Ansom walks into GK with massive number advantage. What's the worst that can happen?
Volcano explodes under his feets, that's the worst that could happen.

Ossomer puts the brute of his army in a choke point to block the enemy land forces. What's the worst that could happen?
Enemy army actualy is flier-heavy and hidden by foolmancy, that's the worst that could happen.

Trams will take his father to parley with the enemy who regularly pulls out cheesy combos out of their asses, be it volcanos, dirtmancy/shockmancy traps, two arkentools and the supreme warlord. What's the worst that could happen?
He should've learned by now, since both his brothers died for playing "fair".

Not so much playing fair as simply playing by what they know; only Ossomer's mistake had real foolishness to it.

You don't play a strategy game on the assumption that you don't know anything - not if you're an experienced general. A side has limited resources, which are spent far less efficiently planning for things that you don't understand than they would be preparing for things that you do. Keeping things in reserve against hypothetical unknown tactics that have neither inductive nor deductive current evidence to support their possibility should be pretty low priority.

Hamster thinks outside the box, and that's why his side is still standing Hamster plans for the unforeseeable and unexepected. Even when Charlie pulled out turn-ending trick leaving their army locked in the air, Hamster had a contigency plan for that.

No he didn't, he invented that on the spot. What Parson does is increase his knowledge at every opportunity so that he can anticipate more, and come up with more counters after the fact - and he has often taken risks to facilitate this. Trammenis is doing the same, and probably about to get bitten for it, just like Parson has now and then.

[imgran]

Tram will secure the king against all predictable risks. He can't plan for unexpected risks, and unforseeable attacks. And regardless the balcony surrounded by units is safer than anywhere else in the tower from Parson. It will be heavily watched during the coming battle, as will the walls below since archers could fire from them. If he was left in the stufy Parson would almost certainly just walk in the study and croak him. Or simply place a dirtamancy trap above or below.

The king is secured against what Tram can anticipate. Tram can do nothing against the completely unknown except for get lucky; and he did luck out it appears.

See, that's why Jetstone has been losing hard.

Ansom walks into GK with massive number advantage. What's the worst that can happen?
Volcano explodes under his feets, that's the worst that could happen.

Ossomer puts the brute of his army in a choke point to block the enemy land forces. What's the worst that could happen?
Enemy army actualy is flier-heavy and hidden by foolmancy, that's the worst that could happen.

Trams will take his father to parley with the enemy who regularly pulls out cheesy combos out of their asses, be it volcanos, dirtmancy/shockmancy traps, two arkentools and the supreme warlord. What's the worst that could happen?
He should've learned by now, since both his brothers died for playing "fair".

Hamster thinks outside the box, and that's why his side is still standing Hamster plans for the unforeseeable and unexepected. Even when Charlie pulled out turn-ending trick leaving their army locked in the air, Hamster had a contigency plan for that.

Pretty much exactly. The job of general, especially the job of chief strategist, requires a certain inborn paranoia. Every army in the world that's worth spit has contingency plans in place for "what happens if something we can't predict has X effect?" Some things there's literally nothing you can do about, but making plans in case the enemy pulls something out of their patoot that has a longer effective range than you think it does isn't one of those things. That's something every army that has ever fought a war, ever, has had to prepare for as the enemy equipment (and their own) gradually improves.

What I object to, what Tramennis is not asking, is basically "What if I miss something important? How do I best serve my side in a situation where the enemy has successfully pulled a trick on me?" Just assuming it won't happen is one of the downsides of faith. And considering the enemy has already pulled an "impossible" trick (the "dirtamancy trap") Tram should not be nearly as confident as he seems to be that "what I can anticipate" is the same set as "what's likely to happen." Not that he should predict what Parson is specifically about to do, but to predict that GK will try to do something is something a general should think of. This side is desperate after all, that brings out a lot of creativity.