Book 2 – Text Updates 033

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby Raza » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:24 am

I<3ChocolateMilk wrote:So, would it stand to reason that a name can be related to natural signamancy?

Names are almost certainly signamancy, looking at some of the ones we know.

Whether it's natural signamancy would probably be subject to magic kingdom debate. I would say only if a name can change after being popped, to accompany a radical change in personality or function - otherwise it's just titanic intention (assuming the titans exist as erfworld scripture describes them).
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby the_tick_rules » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:07 pm

Yeah I was wondering what all that signamancy talk was myself.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby imgran » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:14 pm

An interesting debate on names viz natural signamancy because of the fluctuation between "Parson" and "Lord Hamster." When Parson was CW the first time, he was Lord Hamster, and that's what Jetstone knows him to be, but he's gone out of his way to decide not to be the guy Lord Hamster was, which was basically, a nerd playing witn NPC's. That's what the "these are people" rant was about.

So this is Lord Parson, who is actually a very different kind of fighter from Lord Hamster and has learned a thing or two about morality that he apparently didn't pick up in Columbus, Ohio, United States, Earth, Sanity, Reality.

Speaking of signamancy, let's talk about Parson's from the last strip. He ditched the Sword of Ruthlessness and the old 3D glasses are gone as well, while he has Shredder's bracer he also has Gandalf's sword -- an interesting duality there. Cruelty and protection of the innocent in the same hand. Sort of the two sides of war.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby danhaas » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:27 pm

While Parson may be a luckmancer, I think the last post is indicative of the potential Parson has as signamancer.
As discussed in the forums before, Parson *gets* the meaning behind the names and symbols, while most erfworlders seem oblivious to it. If the name of units influences their behavior and not the other way around, Parson could influence the progression of units and cities, maybe even individual battles. The units' physical appearance, though, reflects their mind.
So far, Parson has named only one unit, the Tool, and he has been playing the script ever since.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby mortissimus » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:05 pm

build6 wrote:
ftl wrote:
Oglokoog wrote:I hate Slately.


Huh. Each update that has Slately in it makes me like him more and more, as he's made out to be more competent and less of a bumbling fool.


... actually, me too. he's certainly not a capricious idiot the way Stanley is. he's still not a nice guy, but he's definitely being shown as someone who at least knows what his job entails.

anyways, my take-away from the update is that - man, Jetstone lost a LOT of princes. Should we ask why? if they are/were a strong side, then shouldn't they have been winning battles? Or is this a sign that "even if you win, you lose, because this is how Erfworld is sucky"?



Hm, 23 princes and princesses in 3000 turns, 22 croaked (unless there is some we do not know about). I think the ability to pop this many is in itself a sign of a strong side.

One has croaked every 150 turns or so. Since Jetstone is a strong side and appears to have been fairly stable in size until recently, I would guess they have croaked as many as they have lost, so a mayor battle with total defeat of one sides big stack every 75 turns or so.

Violent world, this is. But then again so is most strategy games.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby fractal » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:41 pm

mortissimus wrote:Hm, 23 princes and princesses in 3000 turns, 22 croaked (unless there is some we do not know about). I think the ability to pop this many is in itself a sign of a strong side.

One has croaked every 150 turns or so. Since Jetstone is a strong side and appears to have been fairly stable in size until recently, I would guess they have croaked as many as they have lost, so a mayor battle with total defeat of one sides big stack every 75 turns or so.

Violent world, this is. But then again so is most strategy games.
I'm thinking that those princes and princesses probably weren't lost continuously. I'm guessing that many would have been killed in just a few cataclysmic battles or losing campaigns.

On the other hand, Slately's children do seem to lead from the front, so maybe they just make occasional miscalculations, along the lines of that made by Manpower. We don't know how vulnerable high level warlords really are to bad rolls of the dice. Presumably they would never be too exposed otherwise, however, so long as Jetstone is not losing badly.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby CorrTerek » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:14 pm

danhaas wrote:While Parson may be a luckmancer, I think the last post is indicative of the potential Parson has as signamancer.
As discussed in the forums before, Parson *gets* the meaning behind the names and symbols, while most erfworlders seem oblivious to it. If the name of units influences their behavior and not the other way around, Parson could influence the progression of units and cities, maybe even individual battles. The units' physical appearance, though, reflects their mind.
So far, Parson has named only one unit, the Tool, and he has been playing the script ever since.


That's an interesting theory. We'll have to see if Parson ever names anyone else and what, if anything, happens after that.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby cdrcjsn » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:12 pm

If a person's height can change according to how active they are due to natural signamancy...

Does that mean that Stanley the ruler used to be taller when he was Stanley the warlord?

Now that he's traveling out every day conquering dwagons, will he start to get taller, or does that not count as active fighting? (if it does count as fighting, then does he gain XP for every dwagon he tames?)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby Raza » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:45 pm

danhaas wrote:So far, Parson has named only one unit, the Tool, and he has been playing the script ever since.

'Tool' was a bloody big one, though. His joke started the whole ideological upset that erfworlders are fighting wars over right now. Some 70 turns later, freshly decrypted Ossomer's idea of his new side's warcry is an excerpt from Parson's taunts towards Ansom.

I'm liking your signamancer theory, especially considering it's a form of hippymancy (isn't it still? that stuff gets changed around now and then). Of course, we have yet to see what a Signamancer does, other than interpret people's appearances better than Slately does.

CorrTerek wrote:That's an interesting theory. We'll have to see if Parson ever names anyone else and what, if anything, happens after that.

He named a bunch of streets in Gobwin Knob, to no effect so far. Petnames seem like they could be a thing of his, though.

Now that he's traveling out every day conquering dwagons, will he start to get taller, or does that not count as active fighting? (if it does count as fighting, then does he gain XP for every dwagon he tames?)

Good question. It's not as unlikely as it sounds at first sight that taming a dwagon somehow counts as defeating it - certainly some RPGs give you xp for defeating enemies by mindcontrolling them.

Don't think he'll get taller, though. That one seems linked to self-confidence, if anything.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:46 pm

Raza wrote:I'm liking your signamancer theory, especially considering it's a form of hippymancy (isn't it still? that stuff gets changed around now and then). Of course, we have yet to see what a Signamancer does, other than interpret people's appearances better than Slately does.


Not just hippiemancy, but Fate-aligned hippiemancy, which fits in with how Wanda sees him.

It's interesting that the characters with the most influence over Parson are wielding Motion-powered magic (thinkamancy, croakamancy, carnymancy - a common speculation about the Arkenhammer), and that's the element lacking from Parson's past and from signamancy. Sizemore, on the other hand, doesn't seem to influence his actions much.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby CorrTerek » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:47 pm

Raza wrote:He named a bunch of streets in Gobwin Knob, to no effect so far. Petnames seem like they could be a thing of his, though.


Yeah, but that's just streets. Does Signamancy affect objects that aren't alive?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby danhaas » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:46 pm

It could affect the buildings on it.

Wall street for schmucker generation buildings, Pentagon Square for unit producing/upgrading, bwoadway for dance-fight academy...

But Parson used Simpsons and foods he missed for the names, so maybe Abu for the markets, Bbq for dragon buildings, etc
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby Simons Mith » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:05 pm

The Black Hand wrote:
Forthewin, who could command and conquer


Am I the only person to spot this reference?


Well, the actual physical pain I was suffering from 'Wonderloaf' distracted me...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby paint » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:08 am

Simons Mith wrote:
The Black Hand wrote:
Forthewin, who could command and conquer


Am I the only person to spot this reference?


Well, the actual physical pain I was suffering from 'Wonderloaf' distracted me...

ok good i wasn't alone on that one
......
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby Althernai » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:40 am

fractal wrote:Presumably they would never be too exposed otherwise, however, so long as Jetstone is not losing badly.

If they are anything like Ansom, how exposed they are has little to do with whether they're winning or not. Remember, in the battle for Gobwin Knob, he had an overwhelming advantage and yet charged in alone against an army of uncroaked and had to make an outrageously expensive deal with Charlie to save himself. And then of course there is the false parley which got him croaked. I suspect a lot of Royals were similarly reckless.

EDIT: Fix broken quote tags
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby zilfallon » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:25 am

Oberon wrote:
zilfallon wrote:The stuff which is "normal" in our world is called "signamancy" in erf. if you only eat and do nothing but sit, you get fat. We think it is natural, erfworlders think it is magic.

Of course, this is just a part of natural signamancy, since we know that it isn't limited to that. (signamancy which happened to Jillian, for example)
I'm not at all convinced that "it isn't limited to that." We haven't seen a single example of signamancy which cannot be related to a very natural change which would also occur in our world.


Oberon:

DoctorJest wrote:
zilfallon wrote:The stuff which is "normal" in our world is called "signamancy" in erf. if you only eat and do nothing but sit, you get fat. We think it is natural, erfworlders think it is magic.


You don't, however, usually get shorter.


And doctor, you read HALF of my post. I also said

Of course, this is just a part of natural signamancy, since we know that it isn't limited to that.


considering Slately getting shorter.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby Raza » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:27 am

CorrTerek wrote:
Raza wrote:He named a bunch of streets in Gobwin Knob, to no effect so far. Petnames seem like they could be a thing of his, though.


Yeah, but that's just streets. Does Signamancy affect objects that aren't alive?

'No' would be a perfectly reasonable answer to that, but in Erfworld? If Parson naming things was to become a plot-central ability, I wouldn't expect this to happen without being followed up on before the end.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby Ambug666 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:51 am

Parson also named a yellow dwagon, "Banana."
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby the_tick_rules » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:20 pm

Course we have to ask if that was signamancy or his warlord thing? We dunno much about this magic class.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 033

Postby cdrcjsn » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:34 pm

Ambug666 wrote:Parson also named a yellow dwagon, "Banana."


If wonder if that dwagon is going to be involved in the upcoming food fight? Will it be split in half? :)
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