Book 2 – Page 46

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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Oberon » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:31 pm

Mick715 wrote:I think the bad influence thing [Ed: ignoring Ace's offer of an item] is far too understated. You have a caster who is making TONS of magic items, and you refuse to use them? Yes it may not be as immediately practical as say a cloth golem, but it has long term uses that can help turn the tide (and make your warlords more effective)
Agreed. Of all the Warlords and casters and overlords we have seen (hell, let's just call them "characters"), how many characters have had items? Here's the best list I can think of, please excuse the inclusion of items we can not know are actually magic items. I have denoted them with a "?":

[list=]Stanley ('Hammer)
Ansom (Carpet, 'Pliers, Hat)
Wanda (Eyebook, perhaps that staff?, I don't count scrolls as they are one use)
Sizemore (Eyebook, shovel?)
Parson (SoR, 3-D specs, math-a-bracer, and his current array of items which while not demonstrated must be considered to be magic items as that was Parson's stated purpose for armoring up)
Duncan (laurel)
Ossomer (wrist-o shock-o)
Jillian (borrowed Hat)
Maggie (unknown if the Suggestion Dust is one use?)[/list]

I'm either using List wrong or it isn't working...

In any event, I count 12 confirmed less the one-use or potentially one-use and Parson's current array since I don't want to count them. ;)
Oh, and Ace, with a jetpack and a table full of possibilities. I won't count Cubbins' hat since it might be a part of his schtick as a Hatamancer.

So 13ish items. With that low a count, and plenty of Warlords, casters, and Overlords/Kings/Queens left, I'd think that any ruler would be highly interested in a new item showing up. But perhaps Ace is to Slately as Sizemore is to Stanley: Unappreciated and not even given the respect he should be due simply from his status as a rare caster.
gazes_also wrote:So it appears that Parson has substituted the Sword of petulance for the old sword of ruthlessness

Why should he have respect for TMK's rules? Well, apart from the fact that he and the two people he is talking to own their continued existence to the same TMK, and Maggie and Sizemore would be croaked or vegetables if the casters hadn't undone the link HE commanded, no reason at all.
Parson absolutely has respect for the rules. Those of the MK or any other. But we've established that the prohibition against entering a portal which isn't to one of your own cities is merely a convention, and no rule at all.

Look, I'm with Raza on this. The MK has been both friend and foe to Parson, and neither half has bothered to explain itself to him. He owes nothing to the MK, especially at the cost of Wanda and her entire expeditionary force. Once Janice decides to confide in Parson about whatever things she may be doing for him, then he can feel grateful to her. Not the MK, but to the person who has actually done something they weren't ordered to do on his behalf. Until that time, he owes her nothing, and owes himself the chance to live. Which preserving Wanda's expeditionary forces has the best chance of accomplishing. He may also owe his best effort to Stanley, due to the summoning spell. This last point is still up for debate, but none of the rest is debatable with anything other than a lopsided morality which would have him endanger himself and his Side by allowing Wanda and her forces to die.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Sieggy » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:02 am

Besides, he's Yo! Gamer For Life! He's a player, and a player plays to win. He's found exploits, loopholes, and is quite prepared to weasel his way around the rules just like every other gamer out there. Only so far, he hasn't found a GM to argue points with (other than Charlie, perhaps), and even better, no one's called him on on any of his <er> innovations. Of course, I'm still waiting for one of the Titans to show up going hey, waitaminute, you can't do that! as he pulls out his DMG . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:03 am

Now that would be cool.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Zak3056 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:08 am

gazes_also wrote:He so seriously needs to be Batch-slipped for that - and I hope Janice does it to him.

Janice wants him to pull a Lews Therin and break the world. I sincerely doubt she's going to bitch slap him for anything he does.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby ftl » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:11 am

I think it comes back to the fact that Parson still sees this world like a game to be minimaxed. So he's willing to do things like this - destroy things that are conventional but not rule-mandated. "He breaks things. Rules, ideas, people..." (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F141.jpg)

He does NOT have respect for the rules. He wants to bend them whenever he can, get around them when he can't. And even tries to break them when that's boopin' possible.

So yeah, nobody else but Parson would do things like this, and it's a complete betrayal of the faux conventions that bind Erfworld. We shouldn't pretend that it's somehow normal and that he's not breaking anything, because technically it's just a convention. But it's completely in character for Parson to ignore as much as possible and break it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Raza » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:00 am

ftl wrote:I think it comes back to the fact that Parson still sees this world like a game to be minimaxed. So he's willing to do things like this - destroy things that are conventional but not rule-mandated. "He breaks things. Rules, ideas, people..." (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F141.jpg)

He does NOT have respect for the rules. He wants to bend them whenever he can, get around them when he can't. And even tries to break them when that's boopin' possible.

So yeah, nobody else but Parson would do things like this, and it's a complete betrayal of the faux conventions that bind Erfworld. We shouldn't pretend that it's somehow normal and that he's not breaking anything, because technically it's just a convention. But it's completely in character for Parson to ignore as much as possible and break it.

Let's make a distinction here.

On one hand, you have mechanics. Game mechanics in this case, and as such also referred to as rules. Physics, psychology/natural thinkamancy, that sort of thing. You can't break these, only falsify them - which is generally a respectable accomplishment. You could say Parson respects these, since he works with them closely in a field he loves, but it'd be a bit of an anthropomorphism.

On the other hand, you have conventions. Norms, traditions, also called 'rules' in the earth sense of the world. These things are conceptual. They don't really 'exist' outside the mind - rather, they are opinions fortified in habit and popular acceptance, which may or may not be partially enforced with violence. Parson doesn't seem to respect these any more than he does opinions in any other context; that is, he accepts them only insofar as they appear defensible. I find that an admirable position to take, compared to restricting yourself to ideas you didn't arrive at rationally, and further entrenching these in the process. Also, it's portrayed as one of his greatest and most unique strengths as an Erfworld unit, fuelling the story from there.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby kagato23 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:02 pm

I wouldnt' go that far. Parson deals with the rules, because he has to. But respects them? Hardly. He resents and chafes under every one of them. He'll use them when he can to his advantage, but beyond that... Consider his sword. The "rules" of Erfworld tried to compensate for how Parson doesn't fit. He rejected that part of that fit he didn't like, and imeddiatly thereafter in a less metaporical way, shattered the no swearing rule and has continued to ever since.

Parson is pretty much opposed to the rules in general, coming from a world that had far less in terms of literal mechanics. The ones that are only norms he's going to hold in far less accordance. He's giving sizemore a rationalization, but I'm pretty sure if there was a "no warlords, even if they can cast, ever!" rule in the MK, this scene would play out all the same.

the fact hes going to do this by tunnel, staying out of sight and perception if possible, suggests he's willing to do it again if he thinks he can get away with it. Though considering his portal is under guard, that's highly unlikely unless he's got Jack with him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Celebrochan » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:40 pm

I have a sneaking suspicion that when you fly with that jet pack... rainbows come out the back...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby justamessenger » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:24 pm

Celebrochan wrote:I have a sneaking suspicion that when you fly with that jet pack... rainbows come out the back...


I am not sure that is Ace's style, though maybe he would customize it for Tram's own tastes.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby fjolnir » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:01 pm

kagato23 wrote:I wouldnt' go that far. Parson deals with the rules, because he has to. But respects them? Hardly. He resents and chafes under every one of them. He'll use them when he can to his advantage, but beyond that... Consider his sword. The "rules" of Erfworld tried to compensate for how Parson doesn't fit. He rejected that part of that fit he didn't like, and imeddiatly thereafter in a less metaporical way, shattered the no swearing rule and has continued to ever since.

Parson is pretty much opposed to the rules in general, coming from a world that had far less in terms of literal mechanics. The ones that are only norms he's going to hold in far less accordance. He's giving sizemore a rationalization, but I'm pretty sure if there was a "no warlords, even if they can cast, ever!" rule in the MK, this scene would play out all the same.

the fact hes going to do this by tunnel, staying out of sight and perception if possible, suggests he's willing to do it again if he thinks he can get away with it. Though considering his portal is under guard, that's highly unlikely unless he's got Jack with him.


Parson is attempting to find the ACTUAL rules of the game, which nobody seems to fully know, since it's all ingrained knowledge at popping so people tend to ignore it and say "we can't do that, it's not how it's done." Parson, without his built in rulebook, is set-up to reinterpret the rules in more creative ways than someone who's been playing the game as written for a long time...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Trost » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:19 pm

The Black Hand wrote:Well, the "heavily-armored, semi-flying units" I was talking about were a nod to the supertanks used by the Slammers: air-cushion vehicles that could go anywhere, take direct hits from some pretty powerful weapons (and survive), and were capable of obliterating hostiles with plasma-based weaponry.


I support this unit. I would pop many of them.

fjolnir wrote:Parson is attempting to find the ACTUAL rules of the game, which nobody seems to fully know, since it's all ingrained knowledge at popping so people tend to ignore it and say "we can't do that, it's not how it's done." Parson, without his built in rulebook, is set-up to reinterpret the rules in more creative ways than someone who's been playing the game as written for a long time...


Like a group of unimaginative D&D players...

Following that mentality was what made civilizations fall before old-world tactics... Phalanx formations, anyone?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby effataigus » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:05 pm

Aye, Parson would be a real headache in a D and D campaign... though I'd be curious to see if he is like this when he is actually gaming with friends on Earth.

When I'm gaming and I come across a grammatical error, power combination, cheat, or exploit that could break the game, I typically don't have my character use it despite the obvious advantages (or I at least give the GM fair warning). While it would be game-legal, it isn't within the spirit of the rules and it will only serve to make my character, and the game world, cheesier. I do have two friends that are archetypal power gamers though, and with them it's arms race or get left behind. Our characters in those campaigns are generally built around the rules rather than the setting... leading to a less compelling story but a better board-game. I guess my point is that disobeying convention is overrated in group fantasy situations... fantasy worlds are built out of rules and imagination, and breaking rules (or pointing out flaws in the rules using absurd in-game actions) can cheapen the experience.

Don't get me wrong though... Parson is stuck in the mouth of fantasy setting that is designed to be both absurd and riddled with flagrant rules exploits (assuming "realism" was the Titans' goal... and I think there is an argument to be made that it was given the lack of understanding of turn-based-warfare exploits). Were I in his situation, with friends' (and possibly my own) lives on the line, rules and conventions would be the first to die.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby multilis » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:57 pm

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F134.jpg

"game I was developing at home.... It had rules. But it couldn't be won within the rules...

I was essentially going to cheat them. Undermine everything they tried. Untill they found a clever enough way to cheat me. To break my rules and win."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby kagato23 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:59 pm

fjolnir wrote:
kagato23 wrote:I wouldnt' go that far. Parson deals with the rules, because he has to. But respects them? Hardly. He resents and chafes under every one of them. He'll use them when he can to his advantage, but beyond that... Consider his sword. The "rules" of Erfworld tried to compensate for how Parson doesn't fit. He rejected that part of that fit he didn't like, and imeddiatly thereafter in a less metaporical way, shattered the no swearing rule and has continued to ever since.

Parson is pretty much opposed to the rules in general, coming from a world that had far less in terms of literal mechanics. The ones that are only norms he's going to hold in far less accordance. He's giving sizemore a rationalization, but I'm pretty sure if there was a "no warlords, even if they can cast, ever!" rule in the MK, this scene would play out all the same.

the fact hes going to do this by tunnel, staying out of sight and perception if possible, suggests he's willing to do it again if he thinks he can get away with it. Though considering his portal is under guard, that's highly unlikely unless he's got Jack with him.


Parson is attempting to find the ACTUAL rules of the game, which nobody seems to fully know, since it's all ingrained knowledge at popping so people tend to ignore it and say "we can't do that, it's not how it's done." Parson, without his built in rulebook, is set-up to reinterpret the rules in more creative ways than someone who's been playing the game as written for a long time...


I see what your saying, but again, consider the swearing. He actually broke that rule. We knew what the rule was, and it no longer applies for him. It took him some time, but it was something he couldn't do before, so you can't even chalk it up to "special" status.

It's a minor thing, but it shows just how dangerous he could be to this world. He might actually be able to do other things no other unit could ever possibly do. At least not before he changes everything.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Oberon » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:18 pm

ftl wrote:He does NOT have respect for the rules. He wants to bend them whenever he can, get around them when he can't. And even tries to break them when that's boopin' possible.
Well, ok. What I meant by respect is illustrated in the last exchange between he and Sizemore.
Sizemore: Warlord, you can't [enter the MK to get to Jetstone].
Parson: Can't? Physically can't?

See, if Parson simply couldn't, that is a rule he would respect. By virtue of physically not being able to bend it, get around it, or break it. Remember the "I wanna see if I can leave GK" expeditionary picnic? Once he bounced against that zone wall, that was it. No attempt to issue a stern lecture that he is a player rather than a piece, a scream of "FUCK YOU!", and another attempt to see if could step through after that. He just turned to telling stories with a couple of (new) drinking buddies, culminating with various attempts to mate with, I mean mount, no that's still not right, fly on a dwagon.

Yeah, you could say that he just got around that rule by his shameless self-promotion (And yeah, I had to), but that is beside the point.
Raza wrote:On one hand, you have mechanics. Game mechanics in this case, and as such also referred to as rules. Physics, psychology/natural thinkamancy, that sort of thing. You can't break these, only falsify them - which is generally a respectable accomplishment. You could say Parson respects these, since he works with them closely in a field he loves, but it'd be a bit of an anthropomorphism.
Yeah, I wish I'd read this post before composing my response to ftl. You have captured the essence of my intent, sir or ma'am.

I do not agree with kagato23. Resents and chafes? Never. Parson simply adds the rules to his gestalt, and carries on. I'm not going to claim to be anything like Parson in how his genius is portrayed, but I have a saying that I have used to teach several of my long time gamer friends a winning approach to gaming in general: Play to the victory conditions.

What does that mean? Don't hate the rules, just be aware of them and play to them, rather than simply within them. An example: I have completely dominated new games that my gamer friends and I have tried out, to the point where after having won three times previously in a row without anyone else having noticed the pattern, I have announced to the table exactly what I was going to do to win. My wins were on three different days spread across several weeks and some shuffling of players, so there wasn't a clear line of "OMG, he is winning yet again!" And then I won again, as I wasn't taken seriously enough. How? I played to the victory conditions. Rather than scrabbling for this or that short term position, I read the rules of the game and determined the fastest and best means to victory. One such game was Milton Bradley's Shogun (it's been printed under at least one other name, Sword of the Samurai I believe was one other). The victory condition was rather simple: At the end of your turn, control X number of territories. The mechanic: Each turn begins with a bidding phase, where you spend money (koku, earned by some simple calculation such as (territory count)/3 = koku earned for the next turn) to buy units, hire an assassin, hire mercenaries, purchase your turn order ("sword" number, with the first sword going first in the turn, etc.) , etc. The win tactic: Turn 1 - Buy the last sword. Turn 2 - Buy the last sword. Turn 3 - Buy the first sword and win. The exploit? Victory comes at the end of your turn, as long as you have the number of territories required to satisfy the victory condition. There are no fair ups, no one else has a chance to stop you. So you end the third turn in a horribly extended and completely vulnerable position, but the winner by the rules as the game ends and no one has a chance to roll you up. The two turns of buying the last sword allow you to carefully manipulate your and the other players total territory counts, placing them just below cash thresholds and placing you just above. In the first three games people were bidding against the first sword, so I won with ease. In the fourth game I had some competition, but always managed to spend more for my sword of choice, and that was all it took. And that is it. And this is but a single example. As Bruce Lee would say, "It's like a finger pointing at the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all of the heavenly glory!" Similarly, do not focus on your game position, if the game is going to be over with you the victor. Just win.

I have several friends who have designed games. Some of them actually good games. They now always ask me to read the rules and look for the loop holes and exploits, to help them eliminate them. On one ride back from a convention where a friend had run his new skirmish level WWI game, I liked the game but not all the dice throwing. My friend who designed the game pretty much loves to throw dice, but I found them to be getting in the way of the play. You rolled to hit, and then to penetrate armor. Any penetrations of armor were wounds, which the opponent rolled to shrug off. And if that series of rolls resulted in an actual...result... it was a morale counter if there was only a single hit (two hits was a kill). Which, before that morale counter could actually slow down the unit it had been placed upon due to the turn order, there was a rally roll to remove. I pointed out that there was a huge amount of dice being thrown for a result that might go away before it actually had any impact upon the game. Using the standard mathematics of probability we reduced the "Hit/wound/resist" series of rolls to a single die roll with very similar odds, and moved the moral check so that the impacted unit would have to at least bear with the result for one turn until the rally phase. This game, fairly decent at first, is now rather good and plays fast and clean.
effataigus wrote:When I'm gaming and I come across a grammatical error, power combination, cheat, or exploit that could break the game, I typically don't have my character use it despite the obvious advantages (or I at least give the GM fair warning).
I remember a huge debate on the GitP forums a few years back. The crux of the argument was that Druids were OP (a recurring and true theme), and how Hide from Animals (a mere 1st level spell) would neutralize the Druid's animal companion.
D20SRD wrote:Animals cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Animals simply act as though the warded creatures are not there. If a warded character touches an animal or attacks any creature, even with a spell, the spell ends for all recipients.
On the side of the Druids the claim was that the Druid, who could clearly see the opponent with the Hide from Animals spell up, and who can also communicate with their animal companion, would just send that animal companion blundering into the Hidden persons square until there was contact, thus breaking the spell and allowing the animal companion, a rather potent combatant, to join the fray and overmatch the opponent.

My counter: The word "touch" is both a noun and a verb. The phrase "If a warded character touches an animal" is similar in aspect to the situation of you and your kid brother riding in the back seat of your mother's car. Your kid brother keeps poking you in the ribs, and you keep telling him to stop. Finally, your mother turns around and orders your kid brother to stop touching you. Your clever kid brother points out that for every time he poked you in the ribs, your ribs also touched his finger, and so you are just as guilty of touching him as he is of touching you. How do you think this scenario is going to play out for your kid brother? I'm guessing in pain and tears, or at least time out and tears, depending upon the mothers views on corporal punishment. See, the animal companion touched you, so you touched the animal companion, so the spell is broken, is the same argument as your kid brother made. No rational person or mother is going to blame the rib for touching the finger, and no rational GM is going to blame the person for touching the animal sent blundering around in the deliberate hops of a "touch." Again, touch is both a noun and a verb. If the person touched the animal as a verb, the spell is broken. If the person touched the animal as a noun (i.e. the animal companion managed to blunder against the person), the spell is not broken. Do the rules really need to make this distinction? No. Will players still argue it? Yes. Does that make it right? No.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby gaiaswill » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 pm

I think your kid brother example obscures that particular point. I am not a regular D&D player, but the wording of that particular rule reads to me that an incidental contact (touch as a noun, in your words) would break the spell all the same. In my interpretation, the ward is a stealth attempt. The animal hit you, however lightly. Whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter, because it now knows you--or something--is there. Stealth broken. Even the famous SEP field is not immune from deliberate scrutiny.

But that said, I couldn't really tell whether you were arguing for or against the druids anyway. Just playing devil's advocate?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby MattR » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:34 am

I think the most important thing i came away with from this page (bar the awesome rocket pack) was Parson saying 'Look Sizemore... we might not even go.'

Clearly whatever Parson has planned doesnt rely on him travelling through, this is just a backup idea incase boop hits the fan.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby kagato23 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:20 am

Oberon wrote: I do not agree with kagato23. Resents and chafes? Never. Parson simply adds the rules to his gestalt, and carries on. I'm not going to claim to be anything like Parson in how his genius is portrayed, but I have a saying that I have used to teach several of my long time gamer friends a winning approach to gaming in general: Play to the victory conditions.


While Parson doesn't actively try to break every rule (though I'd be curious to see if he can, since he has done it once), it's pretty clear he does resent it, to the extent of resenting the whole experience. We've seen quite clearly at this point that getting what he wished for has been less than ideal, and he'd very much prefer to be back home, where life and death decisions aren't on him to make. It's probably becoming a semantics argument at this point though. But I'd bet that if Parson gets any more opportunities to break rules (and his plan right now, unless we've massively misinterprted the boop about to go down is at least bending some), and it's to his advantage, or even convenience, he'll take those opportunities. He's shown himself to be very good at adapting in the meantime.

MattR wrote:I think the most important thing i came away with from this page (bar the awesome rocket pack) was Parson saying 'Look Sizemore... we might not even go.'

Clearly whatever Parson has planned doesnt rely on him travelling through, this is just a backup idea incase boop hits the fan.


While this is true, in other ways we can make the assumption. The fate magic that is the essence of Erfworld seems to love the boop hitting the fan.

... I am now imagining a trimancer linkup with Ace and Sizemore, who literally make the boop hit a giant fan as the start of a hex-crossing meteo-esque spell. A very smelly one.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby effataigus » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:23 pm

A hee hee, druids...

I have distant memories of playing a paladin up through level 16 (with a lot of multiclassing). I was feeling very powerful until our party druid summoned 2 [old/ancient/swank] elementals and a war elephant in the final battle... and then started casting nukes in his free time. Now, I'm pretty sure my pally could have taken on one of his summoned creatures in a straight up fight, but...

4e has more than its fair share of problems, but "sustain minor" was a lovely idea. :lol:

kagato23 wrote:
MattR wrote:I think the most important thing i came away with from this page (bar the awesome rocket pack) was Parson saying 'Look Sizemore... we might not even go.'

Clearly whatever Parson has planned doesnt rely on him travelling through, this is just a backup idea incase boop hits the fan.


While this is true, in other ways we can make the assumption. The fate magic that is the essence of Erfworld seems to love the boop hitting the fan.


Aye... I'm intrigued by what it will take to convince Parson that he needs to go through that portal... perhaps he's just relying on Wanda fighting her way inside the garrison. Mostly, I'm intrigued because it is going to happen. There was simply too much time spent on him armoring up and getting down to the portal room for it to become irrelevant.

Also, something tells me that GK will regret sending in Ossomer to speak on their behalf. Hopefully nobody told him the plan yet.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Geordy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:13 pm

I wonder havent you guys noticed these new cool looking units behind Tram and Slately in panel 1? Flyers definately, maybe angels? Haha, so much for "good" and "evil"!
:mrgreen:

I might be alone on this but I somehow can understand why the king and the prince are rejecting Ace's offer for now. I mean, the parley has been officially announced, the enemy has been signalled, the doors to the tower just opened and out step the tiny ruler of Jetstone and his fabulous Chief Warlord. The units stand ready in formation the whole scenery is very ceremonial - you just dont walk into this and start talking techno-babble. You are killing the suspense!
:mrgreen:

Everything has its time and place. Ace's is not yet, but fear not, dolliboys, it will come. Im pretty sure we will see that jetpack in action and yes - on Tramennis! After the parley went wrong - and thats the bad news. Lets just hope all this dark foreshadowing just mislead us...

Oh, and our prince once again shows his fantastic skill in negotiating. Playing with the opponents expectations like this is unmatched in all Erfworld. I understand that by ridiculing the pain Ossomer expects Tram to feel about him catches the scarlet-and-black guy offguard.
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Geordy
 
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