Book 2 – Page 46

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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Althernai » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:03 am

Aw, poor Ace. It's always sad when you think of something awesome and your bosses won't even take the time to consider it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby HailGreen28 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:03 am

Avens wrote:What. The. Boop. Why would you not take the jetpack??
I'm sorry, I have nothing insightful to add. I'm a little upset with Jetstone, and I look forward to having Ace on our side (if he doesn't go out in a blaze of firepower, which would be a loss for everyone).
Because they aren't in the field. They're holed up in what they think is a secure garrison, against a powerful flyer force. The smart thing to do is stay in the tower, and shoot the fliers down ASAP. (Which they stupidly aren't doing.)

Why would you want a jetpack under those circumstances? If things go bad, putting the King or Tram in the air is suicide, as far as they know. Tram mentioned earlier that they're even grounding their own fliers, probably to avoid friendly fire/ giving the enemy more to target. They have enough AA to take out the enemy. The problem is they're too overconfident to just do it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby HailGreen28 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:17 am

JesusCraig wrote:I don't think that the backlash from the Magic Kingdom is the real flaw with this plan. I think that this is Parson's worst plan to date.

Parson doesn't even know his own move limit, if he goes through the Magic Kingdom portal, ends up in Jetstone, and turns out he has a move of let's say, 1, he'll have to waste dozens, if not hundreds of moves getting home, vulnerable the entire time, since Heavies can't have mounts. Even if his movement is large, he'll be vulnerable upon his whole trip back home, since he can't likely go back through the MK portal.

Seems like a great opportunity for Charlie to intercept and wipe him out. Even if not, this is going to be a large usage of turns on Goblin Knobs part when they have to provide an armored transport back.
Agreed the possible repercussions are bad. What's best and worst case? The MK just puts guards at Portal Park? The MK and all casters not working for GK declare war and attack?

Parson being out of position isn't that bad. Away from Stanley is good. Maggie can get to Parson in one turn with the dwagon relay, in which case as far as orders go, it doesn't matter. Parson should designate or pop a warlord to do his usual walk around GK to give an upkeep bonus, but other than that GK is better off with Parson in the field.

Parson can give orders real-time, so Maggie can use a lot of her juice..... on things other than think-a-grams. :twisted: He's more vulnerable out of the garrison, but should level quickly and pass that bonus to the main GK force. He evidently doesn't level at battles he's not present at, and I would think as CW he NEEDS to level.

Question for me is, how will Parson react to actually being in a real battle? Not a last-stand us-or-them situation, but where he has to order people attacked and slaughtered, villages razed?

Does Parson have the ability to demote himself and name another CW? I'll be surprised if he doesn't consider it at some point.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby joosy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:52 am

Hmm.. so Parson doesn't even plan on going into Jetstone until something happens during the parley/attack. My guess is he is waiting to see if Wanda survives without being incapacitated. If she is out of the game then Parson going to Jetstone is moot, I would venture.

His plan also does not hinge on having Sizemore with him in Jetstone. There goes my theory that Parson plans to have Sizemore threaten to bring down the Jetstone tower. Not sure if Maggie will follow him or not - but my guess is Parson won't risk two casters unless he absolutely has to. In any case, I believe that Parson will lose something big in order to win. Perhaps Sizemore's trust/friendship? Jack? Maggie? We will see..

I also wonder what Parson is doing with the EyeBook. My guess is he is reading up on his notes. I doubt he is talking to Charlie as we have not been giving any indication that Parson is aware of Charlie's involvement. Perhaps the next text update will illuminate us on that or maybe an internal dialogue from Sizemore or even Janis.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Crisis21 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:28 pm

Awesome Jetpack item - check
Crazy plan by Parson that will piss off alot of people - check
Excellent line by Tramennis - DOUBLE check

I love that! Ossomer's assuming that his brother is referring to him being decrypted when it's actually about what he's wearing. Hilarious!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby atalex » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:47 pm

Why would you not take the jetpack??


Do they even know what a jetpack is? The flying carpet is the only other magic item we've seen that allows for flight without an actual flyer to ride. If the jetpack is something completely new -- a small, lightweight item that turns non-flyers into flyers while leaving both hands free and without the possibility of dismounting -- then Slately and Trem might literally not know what the hell it is nor how potentially useful it might be.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Decorus » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:23 pm

Ace is so working for the wrong side Parson would have strapped that on and been flying around the keep.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby I<3ChocolateMilk » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:55 pm

Avens wrote:What. The. Boop. Why would you not take the jetpack??

Quite possibly because they have absolutely no concept of what a jetpack is. To them it's just another one of Ace's "useless" inventions.

Edit: *snap* atalex
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby The Black Hand » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:17 pm

Trost wrote:
snow1wolf wrote:Also i bet ace is gonna end up turning sides here. Parson is the sort of person who can actually fully appreciate what ace can do and wants to do. Just waltzing in with all those accesories as it is. I think is somthing that might catch that casters eye.


Ace on the GK side would be a HUGE advantage. Parson could make tremendous use of his abilities.

imagine a squad of Dwagon-back archers armed with blast bracers... or rocket launchers.


Or even better, a few divisions of Katyushas.

Trost wrote:
JesusCraig wrote:Seems like a great opportunity for Charlie to intercept and wipe him out. Even if not, this is going to be a large usage of turns on Goblin Knobs part when they have to provide an armored transport back.


Except Charlie WANTS to have Parson on his side. If Parson was on Charlie's side, he'd go from being a valuable mercenary force to the UNCONTESTED BEST elite force in Erfworld.

In fact, Charlie's entire side could charge whatever they wanted, and whoever paid the cost would win whatever conflict! Charlescomm would be the gamebreaker.


So, something like Colonel Hammer's Regiment from the Hammer's Slammers books, then?

I could see that . . . though i suspect Charlescomm would need some kind of heavily-armored, semi-flying unit with a ranged Shockamancy attack if they were to go the Slammer route.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Avens » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:34 pm

atalex wrote:
Why would you not take the jetpack??


Do they even know what a jetpack is? The flying carpet is the only other magic item we've seen that allows for flight without an actual flyer to ride. If the jetpack is something completely new -- a small, lightweight item that turns non-flyers into flyers while leaving both hands free and without the possibility of dismounting -- then Slately and Trem might literally not know what the hell it is nor how potentially useful it might be.

And you're right, they probably don't know what it is. But they believe that they have all the time in the world, so why wouldn't you indulge your caster, encourage him to create useful things if you think that sort of technology is silly...? And since there is a lull, it would be useful to learn how to use that item while the city isn't in any danger, in case you would ever have a need for it. Also, I'm greedy when it comes to items, so I'm comparing my own reactions perhaps incorrectly to the situation.

Slately's dismissive attitude, his unwillingness to see beyond convention and to adapt, are of course not a new revelation. But I do wish that it were otherwise, and that's really what upset me.
And finally, because it would mean that the prince would be defyyyying graaavity:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby kagato23 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:44 pm

Althernai wrote:Aw, poor Ace. It's always sad when you think of something awesome and your bosses won't even take the time to consider it.

At this point, if an accessory-decked Parson steps through the portal, and, with casters making sure Ace keeps his hands up, takes one look at the jetpack and things "holy crap! Does that give a unit flight? (we can reasonably assume it does, it's a jetpack!) That is one of the most awesome accessories I've ever seen! Your good man!" Ace has at least a 30% if not greater chance of turning right on the spot.

Cubbins will probably stay though. Ace might have to work with crap.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Trost » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:53 pm

The Black Hand wrote:
Trost wrote:
snow1wolf wrote:Also i bet ace is gonna end up turning sides here. Parson is the sort of person who can actually fully appreciate what ace can do and wants to do. Just waltzing in with all those accesories as it is. I think is somthing that might catch that casters eye.


Ace on the GK side would be a HUGE advantage. Parson could make tremendous use of his abilities.

imagine a squad of Dwagon-back archers armed with blast bracers... or rocket launchers.


Or even better, a few divisions of Katyushas.

Trost wrote:
JesusCraig wrote:Seems like a great opportunity for Charlie to intercept and wipe him out. Even if not, this is going to be a large usage of turns on Goblin Knobs part when they have to provide an armored transport back.


Except Charlie WANTS to have Parson on his side. If Parson was on Charlie's side, he'd go from being a valuable mercenary force to the UNCONTESTED BEST elite force in Erfworld.

In fact, Charlie's entire side could charge whatever they wanted, and whoever paid the cost would win whatever conflict! Charlescomm would be the gamebreaker.


So, something like Colonel Hammer's Regiment from the Hammer's Slammers books, then?

I could see that . . . though i suspect Charlescomm would need some kind of heavily-armored, semi-flying unit with a ranged Shockamancy attack if they were to go the Slammer route.


heck, Ace would probably be able to upgrade siege into actual TANKS. Actually, I noticed the GK forces have lots of references to hardware... Ace Hardware being a tool store... He kind of has to turn to GK. (I hope it's to Parson, not Decryption.)

Knowing how clever Charlie and Parson are, they'd figure out how to produce Gunships.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Rizban » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:13 pm

Ace and Parson would probably end up working together to produce firearms.

Being the richest side in Erfworld, GK has the funds to mass produce them and equip units.

After continuing the steamroller across the world, GK will hit some critical point where they are the only ones without enough schmuckers to employ Charlie effectively, forcing Charlie to either side with GK or start disbanding his precious Archons. After all, his sole purpose is to expand his income and pop more Archons. Without available clients, Charlie finally ends up in a lose - lose situation.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Oberon » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:44 pm

valce wrote:Just wanted to say -- I really like the expression on Tram's face when he tells Ace "after the parley". It perfectly conveys a 'Sorry about that, guy' feeling, which seems to fit Tram very well. Nicely done!
I thought it was more of a "I'll talk to you after the parley, stud" look. But maybe I'm assuming too much about Tram.
JesusCraig wrote:Parson doesn't even know his own move limit, if he goes through the Magic Kingdom portal, ends up in Jetstone, and turns out he has a move of let's say, 1, he'll have to waste dozens, if not hundreds of moves getting home, vulnerable the entire time, since Heavies can't have mounts. Even if his movement is large, he'll be vulnerable upon his whole trip back home, since he can't likely go back through the MK portal.
Yeah, Parson will be terribly vulnerable, with only dozens of dwagons, two casters, and whatever portion of Jetstone's army can be decrypted to protect him. ;) And the waste would be using dozens of moves to get home. After the fall of Jetstone, Parson will be the CWL at the head of his army, at last!

I wouldn't put too much thought into his move as a limiter. He is a heavy field unit now. Special heavy field unit, I guess. His move should be commensurate with all other heavy field units. And if it isn't, then perhaps a jetpack can increase his move. Or he can tell Sizemore to come fetch him. But I really wouldn't worry about it too much.
warriortribble wrote:Course this means should Parson go to Jetstone, Charlie will be in a perfect position to capture and turn him.
Perfect position, assuming that he is interested in again facing the Perfect Warlord. Who is surrounded by forces far greater than those GK had in TBfGK. Charlie didn't make out so well the last time he matched wits and bluffs with Parson, recall? And Charlie seems to be certain that Jetstone is going to become a ruin rather shortly.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Sieggy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:11 pm

We've ignored another piece of foreshadowing in this discussion so far - Janis and the unnamed Predictamancer. I think that both of them will be waiting for Parson as he makes his subterranean dash, not to stop him, but to give him whatever oracular insights / warnings / Revelations of Destiny that Plotamancy demands. Janis & the caster should be arriving back at the bridge to find Sizemore missing about the time he gets back to GK.

Since Parson isn't a caster, he hasn't violated any conventions, so there. Further, he's not initiating an attack, he's joining a battle already underway, simply joining forces currently engaged. As long as Sizemore & Maggie remain behind (perhaps with Janis) and don't enter JS battlespace, the convention is technically observed. After all, Parson is 'Special'. (said so right there on the Stupid Meal box . . .) The MK may take precautions in the future, but I strongly doubt they're going to be carrying any tales, it wouldn't be in their best interests. I suspect a lot of lawyering is going to be going on after the battle is over, in accordance with the game meme . . . (yeah but, sure but, no but, hey but . . .)

Also, who's going to know how he got there? Assuming no one in the JS Transporter Room survives Parson's unexpected appearance, as far as anyone knows, this is part of Parson's devious plan. He was there all along under veil and somehow managed to slip in unseen. (cunning devil that he is!) Given the exploits he's about to utilize in the main attack, his appearance will just be another one of those mysteries that perhaps 1 or 2 people will be wondering about after the fact. In all the upcoming confusion, though, I doubt anyone will be pondering the imponderable while fighting off hordes of uncroaked Dwagons.

Stanley, of course, is going to have Ye Olde Schyttes, Fyttes, & Blynde Staggeres . . . probably what he comes back to the situation room, finds it deserted, and cocks things up somehow.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Sieggy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:21 pm

Rizban wrote:Ace and Parson would probably end up working together to produce firearms.

Being the richest side in Erfworld, GK has the funds to mass produce them and equip units.

After continuing the steamroller across the world, GK will hit some critical point where they are the only ones without enough schmuckers to employ Charlie effectively, forcing Charlie to either side with GK or start disbanding his precious Archons. After all, his sole purpose is to expand his income and pop more Archons. Without available clients, Charlie finally ends up in a lose - lose situation.

Hmmm . . . since Sizemore is a Dirtamancer and has a cwapload (literally) of raw materials to work with, he should be able to produce HUGE amounts of saltpeter. GK is a volcano, so obtaining sulphur isn't a problem, and charcoal is even less of a problem. Gunpowder is a very real possibility, especially if Ace Hardware gets involved. And hey, it worked for Saruman at Helm's Deep, so there's precedent for it working in a fantasy setting . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby decius » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:53 pm

Who says Parson is attacking? He might be instead defecting away from Stanley. Clearly, any unit can be turned, and by putting himself in a situation where he cannot be given direct orders, Parson would be free to be captured and converted. Perhaps he even chose his artifacts to ensure that; if I saw anything from Metal Gear among the artifacts (A headband, maybe?) I would be certain of it. After all, Solid Snake let the enemy capture him in order to break in to enemy camps all the time. That's why he's giving Sizemore the option: If Sizemore won't defect, Parson orders him to leave GK to the MK, along with disband orders for as much of the army as he can pull off.

Loyalty forcing Parson to act in Stanley's best interests? "Don't kill Stanley, and I'll work for you." ->Stanley doesn't die. -> Better than if Stanley died. Any gamer can do rationalizations like that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Smoker » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:51 pm

Frame one shows us a few unipegataurs in the background, which look like they are arguing.

I guess this means that they have language, which I had assumed they didn't. (Mounts traditionally dont have that level of independance)

Also- how useful could a jetpack be? It could only help you enter the airspace - you know, the one full of dwagons? I'm sure it will come into play at some point, but assuming the jetpack is what it appears to be, why would Ace think that could be remotely useful? Clearly some kind of ranged weapon would be the obvious choice.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Mick715 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:35 am

decius wrote:Who says Parson is attacking? He might be instead defecting away from Stanley. Clearly, any unit can be turned, and by putting himself in a situation where he cannot be given direct orders, Parson would be free to be captured and converted. Perhaps he even chose his artifacts to ensure that; if I saw anything from Metal Gear among the artifacts (A headband, maybe?) I would be certain of it. After all, Solid Snake let the enemy capture him in order to break in to enemy camps all the time. That's why he's giving Sizemore the option: If Sizemore won't defect, Parson orders him to leave GK to the MK, along with disband orders for as much of the army as he can pull off.

Loyalty forcing Parson to act in Stanley's best interests? "Don't kill Stanley, and I'll work for you." ->Stanley doesn't die. -> Better than if Stanley died. Any gamer can do rationalizations like that.

I rather doubt that right now... It seems... well too soon honestly. Far to many plot bits going on before he can defect right now... Least that's what I think

And yes yes...we can talk about the practical limitations of a jetpack... or talk about it being a freaking awesome jetpack!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 46

Postby Trost » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:43 am

Smoker wrote:Frame one shows us a few unipegataurs in the background, which look like they are arguing.

I guess this means that they have language, which I had assumed they didn't. (Mounts traditionally dont have that level of independance)

Also- how useful could a jetpack be? It could only help you enter the airspace - you know, the one full of dwagons? I'm sure it will come into play at some point, but assuming the jetpack is what it appears to be, why would Ace think that could be remotely useful? Clearly some kind of ranged weapon would be the obvious choice.


First come Jetpacks, then come Space Mawines.

Rocketeews? (with dance-fighting?)
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