Book 2 – Text Updates 036

[Lamech]

Also, Jetstone wasn't stupid to not consider the yellows a menace. Siege units can't attack the roof out of turn, and yellows aren't even siege units. When Parson suggested the plan to destroy the tower, he only identifies reds and purples as useful and Wanda uses yellows as shield. Apparently the acid crap doesn't destroy the windows as primary effect, but dissolves them as secondary effect and then falls down.

I'm not sure if they can replicate the controlled fall without a heavy. Perhaps dwagons have a limit for units that they can carry or something. Also the lack of damage to them may have been a result of it being in a city they control, so they don't fall they just move.

Maybe, it calls for experimentation.

[regisminae]

or maybe he found a way to replicate the "controlled fall" he had with banana the yellow dwagon in the summer updates, where it seems none of them took serious damage

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury:

One of the issues over which there seems to be concern is, in the case where a unit must be in freefall to enter the Atrium through the holes in the roof, whether or not the dwagons will be able to voluntarily put themselves into the requisite "falling" state. To that end:

...Weirdomancers can cancel a flyer's special to make it fall (or make a non-flyer fly, then dispel it and cause a fall)...

Perhaps the scrolls borne by the Casters are not Healomancy as some have supposed, but are rather Weirdomancy, to cancel the GK group's Flying special en masse and then to restore it once the units are within the Atrium.


However, in the possibility that, once it has sustained sufficient damage, the Atrium roof would cease to qualify as a zone separation, this theory becomes moot.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Wow. They say the watched over pot never boils, but this update's been both picking up the pace of the story, and the pace of the updates!

Okey, it's not just this update. The past few have been notably moving to the big finale, and were close in succession to each other in our reader-time, and I for one am very happy

. . . and somewhere in the Atrium is some poor schmoo named 'Fan' who will probably be the first one hit . . .

I'm amazed it took 3 pages of discussion for that comment to be made.

Real-world history is full of much much stupider military decisions. Specifically, parleying when parleying was a bad, bad idea.

{snip}

Compared to any one of a hundred real-world examples of actual national leaders in history, the Jetstone folks are pretty par for the course.

The most effective deceptions are mixed with half-truths. The conquistadors (and all later colonial empire builders, really) were masters of divide and conquer, all so very trustworthy- until they weren't. Make some promises, honour them, make more promises, break those- that's how you get places. Conversely, if someone would never respect parley (or what have you), they would soon find no one willing to parley (or whatever) with them.

Sometimes the moment of reckoning is delayed, because there's no one left to tell others of treachery. But Jetstone really has no excuse. They know Parson's brand of diplomacy is the stabbity kind. If they, or Tremmennis, absolutely want(s) to talk to Lord Hamster for some reason, then the least they could have done was to keep GK's force nicely above the AA defenses, where any stray dook would be met by a volley of missiles.

That they didn't, well ... yeah, they kinda deserve to vanish. But I'd just not write them off yet. This looks too much like a foregone conclusion; something's gotta give, there's gotta be some surprise around the corner. I can think of one that doesn't even involve my bugbear Charlie.

[badninja]

This was interesting on how Parson had a target in mind. I wonder how Jetsone will respond to loosing a command center? Good update overall.

[Ace]

This was interesting on how Parson had a target in mind. I wonder how Jetsone will respond to loosing a command center? Good update overall.

I think this is the ballgame for Jetstone... with Trem possibly surviving as a barbarian or heir, and the side basically collapsing (they've invested everything into this battle). They're out of money, and about to lose almost all their resources... oh, and they have hostiles next door... even if Haggar lost half of their grand army (and they shouldn't have, given they were to retreat at that point, and Jillian had them retreat early), they'll have a capital and less resources lost, and be in much better shape after this battle.

[the_tick_rules]

Will Haggar still consider Jetstone their primary target after the battle though?

[Oberon]

Except that Tremmanis didn't want to gloat and wanted to make an actual alliance with GK. Slately may have an idiot ball, but he's not calling the shots here.

Oh, I don't know about that. Slately is, after all, the King who formed both the RCC and the RCCII. He may have decided to allow his new CWL to hold a parley with GK, but I don't think for a minute that he would have been happy with anything other than the annihilation of the GK expeditionary forces. It would have ruined him politically. What would he have said to Don, or to any of the other rulers he cost units and shmuckers to form the RCCII army? "Oh, well, yeah... Yes, we did actually have that Toolist witch right in our crosshairs, and could have wiped her out at any moment. And yes, that was one of the prime reasons I brought you all together in our grand RCC alliance. But I suddenly decided that Stanley wasn't so bad, and Toolism wasn't so bad, and it seemed best to make nice with our hated foes instead." I just don't see that going over very well. If they had tried that, Jetstone could probably count the number of turns until some other kingdom kicked down their walls and ended their Side.

Real-world history is full of much much stupider military decisions. Specifically, parleying when parleying was a bad, bad idea.

The parley with [many examples snipped]

For the most part, you cite examples of the weaker side being backed into a situation where parley may have been their only hope, and finding that the strong side knew this quite well and decided that their eventual victory would be easier if they killed off as much leadership as they could.

This isn't the case here. Jetstone held all the cards. They formed a grand coalition based upon the premise that Royalty represented the will of the Titans, to fight a non-royal Side which was spreading the "heresy" that Toolism was the actual titanic mandate. Not only that, but they had carried out a very successful smear campaign against "Stanley the Worm", to the point where no Royal Side could stomach the though of the GK Side continuing on.

In this situation, there was no need for Jetstone to do anything other than to order the attack. There could have been nothing Jetstone or the RCC would have gained through a parley, there was nothing that the RCC desired from GK except that GK be ended. The only reasons that I can see that they did not order an immediate attack was that they didn't see that they had anything to lose, and wanted to posture a bit before delivering the killing attack. This is exactly like the trite trope of the villain who has the upper hand monologueing to the point where he loses.

[Ace]

Will Haggar still consider Jetstone their primary target after the battle though?

It almost doesn't matter, since even if they decide GK is their new enemy, Jetstone is at best a minor partner to that fight. Plus, it's probably just as sound logically to take over what's left of Jetstone in order to strengthen them for the fight against GK, rather than helping Jetstone rebuild, especially since they're razing cities whose upkeep they can't afford.

As to the rest of this, people need to quit with the parley/rules-of-war silliness I saw in this and other threads. ZOMG, Parson broke parley (just like the other sides have done when it suits them)... who cares.

[Ace]

Except that Tremmanis didn't want to gloat and wanted to make an actual alliance with GK. Slately may have an idiot ball, but he's not calling the shots here.

Oh, I don't know about that. Slately is, after all, the King who formed both the RCC and the RCCII. He may have decided to allow his new CWL to hold a parley with GK, but I don't think for a minute that he would have been happy with anything other than the annihilation of the GK expeditionary forces. It would have ruined him politically. What would he have said to Don, or to any of the other rulers he cost units and shmuckers to form the RCCII army? "Oh, well, yeah... Yes, we did actually have that Toolist witch right in our crosshairs, and could have wiped her out at any moment. And yes, that was one of the prime reasons I brought you all together in our grand RCC alliance. But I suddenly decided that Stanley wasn't so bad, and Toolism wasn't so bad, and it seemed best to make nice with our hated foes instead." I just don't see that going over very well. If they had tried that, Jetstone could probably count the number of turns until some other kingdom kicked down their walls and ended their Side.

Real-world history is full of much much stupider military decisions. Specifically, parleying when parleying was a bad, bad idea.

The parley with [many examples snipped]

For the most part, you cite examples of the weaker side being backed into a situation where parley may have been their only hope, and finding that the strong side knew this quite well and decided that their eventual victory would be easier if they killed off as much leadership as they could.

This isn't the case here. Jetstone held all the cards. They formed a grand coalition based upon the premise that Royalty represented the will of the Titans, to fight a non-royal Side which was spreading the "heresy" that Toolism was the actual titanic mandate. Not only that, but they had carried out a very successful smear campaign against "Stanley the Worm", to the point where no Royal Side could stomach the though of the GK Side continuing on.

In this situation, there was no need for Jetstone to do anything other than to order the attack. There could have been nothing Jetstone or the RCC would have gained through a parley, there was nothing that the RCC desired from GK except that GK be ended. The only reasons that I can see that they did not order an immediate attack was that they didn't see that they had anything to lose, and wanted to posture a bit before delivering the killing attack. This is exactly like the trite trope of the villain who has the upper hand monologueing to the point where he loses.

This is a bit silly from you. Trem even mentions that part of the conditions would be the loss of the arkenpliers and wanda (who'd be captured or croaked), thus negating that whole threat, and merely allowing GK to survive as a side (with significant reparations no doubt), to spare a nearly exhausted Jetstone a long war that they still aren't sure they'd win. They're out of money, enemies like Haggar on all sides, forced to raze cities for upkeep money... they aren't exactly well placed to win a war here, a (very conditional) alliance makes sense.

[kreszantas]

. . . and somewhere in the Atrium is some poor schmoo named 'Fan' who will probably be the first one hit . . .

then the reaction to said defication hits the rotating oscillator, all he!! is going to break loose. Trem is having a bad day at the office.

[the_tick_rules]

Will Haggar still consider Jetstone their primary target after the battle though?

It almost doesn't matter, since even if they decide GK is their new enemy, Jetstone is at best a minor partner to that fight. Plus, it's probably just as sound logically to take over what's left of Jetstone in order to strengthen them for the fight against GK, rather than helping Jetstone rebuild, especially since they're razing cities whose upkeep they can't afford.

As to the rest of this, people need to quit with the parley/rules-of-war silliness I saw in this and other threads. ZOMG, Parson broke parley (just like the other sides have done when it suits them)... who cares.

Haggar also won't be hiring charlie anytime soon.

[Ace]

Will Haggar still consider Jetstone their primary target after the battle though?

It almost doesn't matter, since even if they decide GK is their new enemy, Jetstone is at best a minor partner to that fight. Plus, it's probably just as sound logically to take over what's left of Jetstone in order to strengthen them for the fight against GK, rather than helping Jetstone rebuild, especially since they're razing cities whose upkeep they can't afford.

As to the rest of this, people need to quit with the parley/rules-of-war silliness I saw in this and other threads. ZOMG, Parson broke parley (just like the other sides have done when it suits them)... who cares.

Haggar also won't be hiring charlie anytime soon.

Not clear they'll need to at their current strength.

[WaterMonkey314]

I just realized something - is the roof itself the zone barrier between Airspace and Garrison (Courtyard)? If so, do the holes mean that GK can just fly down and "cross" as they go through the hole?

[Sieggy]

I had wondered about that, too - does the removal of a physical barrier remove the zone barrier as well? If so, the entire GK Air Force could retreat to inside the Atrium (which certainly seems large enough to accommodate them), where the only way they could be attacked would be by plunging fire (the archers would have to shoot up and over the walls, which would seriously degrade their accuracy) or for troops to try entering the Atrium though the ground floor doors / windows. And once Wanda starts the Decrypting, that would be difficult at best.

On the subject of what Parson is planning, what if it's something simple? He could enter through the dungeon, (where I assume the Portal is located, as it would be the easiest to defend, and which I would also suspect is very lightly defended at this point) and just sets fire to the Tower? With the JS Royalty and archers up on top, a plain old fire would be the absolutely simplest approach. We don't know the capabilities of the magic items he grabbed from the armory, but some form of flamecaster would be well within the realm of possibilities. Once the lower floors are aflame, everyone topside is royally screwed. The Unipegatards can attempt to extract Slately, but to do so, they would have to enter airspace which is full of annoyed Dwagons & Archons. Though I would guess the jetpack has enough speed to get Trem out of there before taking too much damage . . .

On another note, I'm hoping the next text update deals with the Don and the TV reactions . . . where I would think a great deal of cwapping is going as well.

[Smoker]

I just realized something - is the roof itself the zone barrier between Airspace and Garrison (Courtyard)? If so, do the holes mean that GK can just fly down and "cross" as they go through the hole?

As far as we know, the barrier between zones is still the ground. Breaking the glass should allow the dwagons to fly inside the building though, thus gaining protection from the archers and buying a bit of time to play out their next move, such as "falling" to the ground.

Once the atrium/courtyard is cleared of Jetstone troops, it will also give Jack some privacy to cast some Foolamancy.

Parson told Maggie he just wanted to be there, and didn't hint at any specific plan. So unless he's hiding something (which is quite likely) he should just be heading to meet up with Wanda and Jack.

[the_tick_rules]

It almost doesn't matter, since even if they decide GK is their new enemy, Jetstone is at best a minor partner to that fight. Plus, it's probably just as sound logically to take over what's left of Jetstone in order to strengthen them for the fight against GK, rather than helping Jetstone rebuild, especially since they're razing cities whose upkeep they can't afford.

As to the rest of this, people need to quit with the parley/rules-of-war silliness I saw in this and other threads. ZOMG, Parson broke parley (just like the other sides have done when it suits them)... who cares.[/quote]

Haggar also won't be hiring charlie anytime soon.[/quote]

Not clear they'll need to at their current strength.[/quote]

Well more like they are probably enraged at him. He used sacking their capital as blackmail to force them into a suicide run. Charlie is really having problems with his image these days.

[niklinna]

Haggar also won't be hiring charlie anytime soon.

Not clear they'll need to at their current strength.

Well more like they are probably enraged at him. He used sacking their capital as blackmail to force them into a suicide run. Charlie is really having problems with his image these days.

Chalie also uniquely understands the threat that Parson represents to the established order, including himself, and is therefore less concerned with his image than with his survival.

[the_tick_rules]

Charlie is always concerned with his image. His image is what keeps his treasury full.

[Smoker]

Wow. They say the watched over pot never boils, but this update's been both picking up the pace of the story, and the pace of the updates!

Okey, it's not just this update. The past few have been notably moving to the big finale, and were close in succession to each other in our reader-time, and I for one am very happy

Agreed!

Sometimes the moment of reckoning is delayed, because there's no one left to tell others of treachery. But Jetstone really has no excuse. They know Parson's brand of diplomacy is the stabbity kind. If they, or Tremmennis, absolutely want(s) to talk to Lord Hamster for some reason, then the least they could have done was to keep GK's force nicely above the AA defenses, where any stray dook would be met by a volley of missiles.

That they didn't, well ... yeah, they kinda deserve to vanish.

Actually, (correct me if I'm wrong) but I think that's exactly what they DID do. The airspace covers the garrison and the Outer Walls, so by bringing the GK forces in over the Atrium (ie. the courtyard of the garrison), they HAVE placed them in range of the JS defenses, which are in the tower of the garrison.

Really, since Tramennis and Slately are both aware of (or mostly aware of) the capabilities of the yellows, it makes sense. If they had deployed the archers to the Outer Walls, and moved the GK forces back there, it actually makes them more vulnerable to falling crap.

Clearly noone expected the crap to be able to break the Atrium - except Parson.

So JS did the best with what they had.. unfortunately it just happened to be exactly what Parson was hoping for.

[Smoker]

Going back a few pages, I dug up what Maggie said:

A dictate from Jetstone, Lord.

Our forces in the airspace are ordered away from the tower.

As conditions to formal parley, all Foolamancy must be dispelled, and our forces must assemble over the garrison, within range of their archers and casters."

Since the tower is part of the garrison, basically what she's saying is "Get out of my bedroom, but stay in the house."

What she could have said was "our forces must assemble over the courtyard", (or "atrium")... But I think this was a deliberate choice of words by the titan though, so as not to make crapping on the atrium too obvious a tactic.