Book 2 – Text Updates 036

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby effataigus » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:11 pm

Well, if we're serious about solving the curving poop problem then we might need to add in one more source of evidence... the text.

"...a shower of sparking glass was falling slowly, slowly. At its center, a brown lump snaked through the air."

I'm fixating on two words here... "slowly" and "snaked."

I'm not sure what this means, but Banana also seemed to fall exceptionally slowly when Parson was on his back. If I recall, banana was also off turn there. I wonder if there is any connection here, or if it matters.

Wtheck is going on here? Either this is artistic license on both the author's and artist's part (which I am completely comfortable with), or Earth physics really doesn't apply to falling things in Erfworld.

To me snaking implies a back and forth motion, which, unless my understanding of the physics of curveballs is incomplete, is impossible to create simply from spinning the mass... viscosity be damned. Even adding another dimension to the rotation should only lead to a helical path instead of an oscillating one... unless the other dimension of oscillation was into i space..?

Snaking tends to happen when there are opposing forces at either end of flexible solid with one end held in place. Perhaps then Erfworld air resistance is acting exclusively on the leading edge of an elastic poop cylinder whereas the gravitational motivation is acting throughout the mass (and one end is still splortched to the side of the ceiling)? For this to be the case, the air resistance would have to be exerting a greater force than the gravity, the excess of which is compensated for by the roof pushing downwards... somehow.

Perhaps there are two counter-spinning gyropoops inside the central poop mass? Umm, I can't remember which one is my right hand, so I'd probably get a sign change somewhere in the vector math if I even tried to guess how this might solve this problem.

Perhaps the poop is larger than it appears, and the only visible object is a pendulum inside the mass that is shielded from air resistance, but still subject to gravity?

We know that time flows strangely in Erfworld. The side on turn can hold up the setting of the sun if they decide to finish their game of Chess first. Perhaps the poop attack has a travel time built into it that affords the defending side a single action between the pooping and the landing... and in a sense the poop had to wait for Tram to acknowledge the poop and finish his sentence before it was allowed to land? The snaking was it trying to keep its speed up while holding off from hitting the ground.

GREAT SCHOLARS OF ERFWORLD, WE HAVE BUT LIMITED TIME TO APPLY OUR MIGHTY FACULTIES AND SOLVE THIS, THE GREATEST MENTAL CHALLENGE OF OUR LIVES.

EDIT: Hmm, another time a snaking falling motion happens is when something, broader on the bottom side, falls through an especially viscous medium. I'm thinking a falling feather here, or if any of you have ever dropped a spoon or something similar into water. Perhaps Erfworld air is especially viscous, or perhaps it is more so when objects are moving off turn?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Oberon » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:35 pm

oslecamo2 wrote:
Oberon wrote:We do, however, know that we have seen exactly one site described as being a dormant volcano. And not even artwork to suggest another caldera. I think we're safe on this point until it is specifically pointed out.
Not all dormant volcanos are calderas. And the terrains of the other factions weren't given a type at all so far.
If I choose to believe that things depicted as mountains are mountains, and you choose to believe that things depicted as mountains must be volcanoes, I believe that I have the force of evidence with me. The single volcano we have seen was called out to the readers. There will be no repeat volcano uncroaking. Mark this post and quote it to mock me in the future once there is another volcano uncroaking. I'll be wrong, and the story will suck a little bit more for the destruction of the unique ending of Book 1. Either way I lose.
oslecamo2 wrote:
Oberon wrote:You're forgetting that it was a multi-hex trap, and killed everything for hexes around. Good luck timing it right! And you're still sacrificing three casters, which GK didn't have to even consider.
No I'm not. I'm pulling out the casters before everything explodes. That's for what high-movement mounts (like dwagons) are for.
First off, there is nothing to suggest that the casters have time to do anything other then enter a portal after they uncroak a volcano. That they can take any other action than that is just speculation. Secondly, it wasn't the GK turn when they did their cast. So even if your speculation is correct, it's only usefully correct when it is your turn. Third, multi-hex trap. So even in the fringe case where you're right about actions and it is your turn, you've got to hope that your movement speed puts you outside a multi-hex radius before you all die. Forth, you're investing more and more into this... 3 casters, 3 high move mounts, and a warlord. Every additional resource increases your cost and lowers your chances of getting a good return on the investment.
oslecamo2 wrote:
Oberon wrote:You are also sending casters alone into an enemy occupied hex. Parson and company had the comparative security of the dungeons and a line of defensive troops. It just doesn't compare.
Well, that can be easily replicated. Cheap infantry is cheap. You'll take some losses, but if you time it right your oponent will take a lot more.
And yet more resources. 3 casters, 3 fast mounts, a warlord, and infantry which will be left behind to die. Or are you now going to mount all of them on fast mounts?
oslecamo2 wrote:
Oberon wrote:And how do you give orders from another hex? That mechanic hasn't been made clear. Stanley was able to send a force of dwagons to capture Jillian, but he had the trimancer table. Other than that, units removed from the capitol appear to need to be issued orders via hat, thinkamancy, or runner. So you send the L1 Warlord. You've now sacrificed 3 casters and a Warlord. If they survive any attacks against them before they get the spell off, you're still losing them. Good luck keeping your morale up. Not to mention, you know, losing 3 casters... It might be worth it in some fringe situation, but probably not many at all.

Again, I don't know where you're pulling the caster sacrifice thingy. If I can tell them to go trough a portal, I can damn well tell some dwagons to carry them out of the hex in a hurry. Sacrifice some basic infantry as meat shields and presto!
I've already addressed both the supposition that mounted movement eliminates all risk, and the ever increasing resources you're throwing at this. Sooner or later you just can't afford it.
oslecamo2 wrote:
Oberon wrote:When the fight comes to you, as it did in TBfGK, you don't always have the luxury of not being there.

With dwagons, hell yes I have! Stanley didn't stood in the capital waiting for his doom, he pulled out from a place he knew would become a deathfield one way or the other.
Stanley didn't leave because a tri-mancer casting party was coming to kill him. If you're not in the exact same position as Stanley when the need comes for the tri-mancer, you can't just assume that you're going to fly away before you get caught. There's no guarantee of advance notice, Jetstone thought they were going to bottle up the GK forces in an infantry and siege battle hexes away from Jetstone. And then the major part of their army was flown past and they were about to be ended.
oslecamo2 wrote:You really seem to have your definitions of "winning" and "losing" confused. Making the casters cast a spell and pulling them out is "losing", but sacrificing 3/4 of your dwagons and troops to pull a desesperate retreat killing just a bunch of bats in return is "winning"? :roll:
You can roll all you want, I've still pointed out a Overlord led battle that you decided to qualify away for some unknown reason. While it wasn't an even exchange, things you're leaving out are that Stanley got Jack's sanity back and the GK side did kill at least one TV warlord. And headed back to GK, where he needed to go. So as I said, he didn't lose.
oslecamo2 wrote:
Oberon wrote:True, we do not know. And until we do know, it looms ever present as a repeatable threat. After your neighboring nation tests a nuke for the first time, you have to ask yourself: Did your neighboring nation have one nuke, or two, or many? You don't know, but until you do know you have to anticipate that what they can do once they can do again.
Because like also pointed out, if Charlie could easily spam that, he would've conquered Erfworld by now.
That is no basis for making a decision. The guy with the nukes might have plenty of reasons for being hesitant to use them. Many have been floated about in this thread alone. Only the fool would decide that a lack of "spamming" a spell meant that it couldn't or wouldn't be used at any time the owner felt it was really necessary. When your neighboring country has exploded a nuke, you don't attack it (um, as a national entity, and with conventional weapons or warfare, just to rule out the pedants) thinking that they are all out of nukes now. This simple fact has worked on our world for 65 years.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby effataigus » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:50 pm

effataigus wrote:EDIT: Hmm, another time a snaking falling motion happens is when something, broader on the bottom side, falls through an especially viscous medium. I'm thinking a falling feather here, or if any of you have ever dropped a spoon or something similar into water. Perhaps Erfworld air is especially viscous, or perhaps it is more so when objects are moving off turn?


Oh uh, or the posters who said the following statements were right:

1. The poops are just foolmancied dwagons.
2. The dwagons will land once they are overladen with something... causing them to fall as banana did... slowly.
3. The parley was just used for the distraction necessary to cast the foolmancy veil.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Oberon » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:54 pm

ftl wrote:Strongly disagree. It is neither insult nor idiocy.

It is NOT an offer to let some GK forces live at the cost of Wanda and the pliers.

It is an offer to let the some forces (some Dwagons, some mounts, and Jack) live in exchange for an alliance afterwards. Any deal wouldn't offer anything about Wanda or the Pliers - they're being shot down and taken regardless of any deal, from Tram's point of view.
And this is my point exactly. Either Tram is an idiot for not recognizing that offering to take a 'Tool from a Toolist is never going to be a valid point of compromise and bargain, or he is offering those terms fully intending to deliberately offer insult.

And if you think that either Stanley or Parson is foolish enough to even consider "Well, if y'all Toolists are so in with the Titans, than come ahead and fight yer 'Pliers wielder against our army", well, we'll just disagree again.

zilfallon wrote:Yes...now that you wrote all fails by Wanda thanks to her love, we can say: Wanda did more damage to GK than Charlie did :D
But not more than....Stanley!

pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:Golf balls are also not round.
They are spherical! With lots of little dimples.

mortissimus wrote:If Parson was more of a gamer he would have ordered his least valuable units to perform experiments in jumping of dwagons.
Or maybe, you know, ask his bracer?
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby mortissimus » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:01 pm

Ask the bracer, but do control studies with least valuable units to test the bracer.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Selexor » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: Dwagon Crap's Trajectory:

The main advantage of a Yellow Dwagon seems to be this ability to drop Acidic Battlecrap. Each one seems to have an "ability" of the sort, like blow pops, or the ability to deal damage over time by setting units on fire. Yellows' specialty is battlecrap.
Would it not therefore make sense if the Yellows had some sort of Natural Dirtamancy that gave them the ability to aim their crap? This weapon, like all bomb-type weapons, is limited if you can't aim it properly, and that's a big shiny mechanic that would explain it perfectly. Once the crap starts falling, the Dwagon itself is able to "nudge" it in the right direction with Dirtamancy to ensure the target is hit.
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Lamech » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:14 pm

Ytaker wrote:Erm, what argument are you making? That Kingworld isn't overpowered because Charlie also has a ton of archons? Surely that makes it more overpowered. He can force people to end their turns with his massive army.
That kingworld is not more powerful than Summon Perfect Warlord because for the coalition to overcome Summon Perfect Warlord they needed Charlie. If Charlie helped Parson, then Charlie could have enticed or forced Haggar to end the turn and kingworld would have done nothing.
The reason he is so powerful is because he has dwagons with so many abilities. The author noted elsewhere that he always had them in the back of his mind- they had so many abilities that they could serve as a save if he wrote Parson into a corner. The kingworld spell worked, and if nothing else, has turned near certain defeat into a 50 50 battle.
Parson has significantly less forces than the coalition did when they attacked GK. In book one the coalition had four times the forces needed to beat GK at their base. Now GK lacks the force to even defeat Haggar in the field. Again Summon Perfect Warlord turned a certain defeat into a victory; even if Kingworld could do the same (we don't know how likely Parson is too win really), it works once a cast. Summon Perfect Warlord works for the battle your in and then works for the next and the next and the next.
They can't ask around in the magic kingdom, as it hates them. Likewise, it's not really likely to work since you are trying to manipulate the neutral magic kingdom for a combat mechanic. Charlie is a master of thinkamancy, and it would be hard to break his link. Mentally adapt at ignoring you and all, he's not actually there. It's generally hard to get any air units into a city, as they will be watching out for anything doing that, and a veil does not make you invisible. Digging a tunnel is a slow, risky, and very painful strategy, that would take many turns, and give the enemy many, many chances to counter you.The enemy doesn't always know which hex your caster is in. Turning failed the only time we ever saw it.
Just because the MK hates GK and GK can't use a certain tactic doesn't mean its less valid. (Also not all the MK, see Janice.) And asking "Who's the turnamancer woring for Charlie?" won't seem suspicious; people talk. Charlie is NOT some master thinkamancer. He has a powerful artifact; this doesn't mean he suddenly is better at being in a link. And there are ways that you can learn were the enemy forces are; for example the lookamancy table, or a predictamancer.

Someone right next to kingworld can see it, and that requires getting past a city full of units- and it's real, so seeing it wouldn't make it break like foolamancy. The way people save against veils is recognising that the objects are not supposed to be there. You can't do that with this spell. And, how could someone save against ending a turn? It's the world, not you. If Stanley had noted that he had ended the turn, then that would be something to resist. This spell bypassed all units, who could resist, and directly effected a mechanic. Units can save- the world, probably, can't.
The spell was fairly big and obvious. In the on the final panel of page 21 is doesn’t appear that anyone is in the way of the board. And you break veils with a “spot check” as we see in the text 18, which if you note is at a distinct time. Recognizing veils is something else which you do at any time. And you can save against the spell by it giving you a save and making it, again as we see with the veils you can resist spells that do not affect you.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Ace » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:19 pm

Now GK lacks the force to even defeat Haggar in the field.


Technically this bit isn't substantiated... you're going a bit too far I think. GK has been retrofitted so they're (somehow) less strong than the Jetstone/Faq forces though, which is extremely weird and problematic for the logic of battle decisions so far...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby OneHugeTuck » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:24 pm

If you look closely, you'll see acid crap golems inside the falling tear drops of poo.

Dirtamancer made them, Parson ordered the dwagons to swallow them whole.

Endgame: Acid craps hits and splashes and croaks Jetstone troops. Then acid crap golems slide about, delivering more crapastation.

One can imagine them bashing from side to side in their teardrop containers, thus the 'snaking' motion through the air.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:03 am

Oberon wrote: I believe that the ending of Book 1 clearly established that Parson is bound to work for Stanley's best interests.


1. This is precisely why Parson might find himself doing something that would make Stanley unhappy, even at the risk of his own disbanding. Stanley's best interests != his political ideology or his obsession. And the fact that Charlie is working against GK would make Trammenis think that Toolism is demonstrably bunk.

Moreover, Duty and Loyalty are considered separate by Erfworlders. It's not clear if Duty is ultimately to the Ruler or the Side, if the Ruler appears to be endangering the Side. I'm not seeing any lack of Duty in Caesar's thinking, for example.

Incidentally, if Trammenis knows that Don is in trouble, then he may be seeing the writing on the wall for having a coalition motivated by Royalism.

In other words, Trammenis is not dumb, he's just tragically ahead of his time in declaring "Royalism vs. Toolism" to be obsolete.

2. Charlie warned Trammenis that Spacerock was in danger, but he didn't say that Parson would be able to keep Wanda alive. As far as Trammenis knew, Parson's strategy might have been another suicide bombing, but this time without an escape route for the casters.

Morgaln wrote:Only the dragons shouldn't be protected from the archers inside, because those can just shoot in through that big hole that formerly was a roof. The way the last panel of page 47 looks to me, it should be possible to put archers on the tower and let them shoot inside the atrium. No risk involved for them at all.


Sure, they can shoot at the dwagons. And the arrows that miss can hit Jetstone troops in the courtyard - not so good for morale.


Regarding the "snaking", the update was describing what Antium saw at the far end of the Atrium, so a helical path could have been mistaken for side-to-side movement. Air currents might also be involved.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:27 am

Oberon wrote:And this is my point exactly. Either Tram is an idiot for not recognizing that offering to take a 'Tool from a Toolist is never going to be a valid point of compromise and bargain, or he is offering those terms fully intending to deliberately offer insult.


Look, this is just a ridiculous false dichotomy. We know he is sincere about the offer, based on the text. It's also substantively a lot better than the usual "negotiation" fig leaves offered before annihilation.

As for being an idiot, first, based on the timeline, he knows he will be negotiating with Parson and not Stanley, and Parson's dossier indicates he is a clever and unconventional thinker who might go for a negotiation.

Second, and you've already been told this many times and have never addressed it satisfactorily, from TRAMENNIS' point-of-view, they have a guaranteed win. The pliers are essentially theirs already. And everything else dies in the hex as well. So anything more than zero is more than GK could expect to get out of it. So he's offering 70-80 dwagons, some decrypted warlords, AND a Foolamancer, and that's just his OPENING offer, in exchange for peace. That's a LOT. Even a fanatic might go for it, because the alternative is ZERO. This is a turn-based game, and that way of thinking is absolutely entrenched.

The problem is not stupidity on the part of Tramennis, it is imperfect information. Another point that has been raised with you in the past. It is absolutely a good faith offer, and your unwillingness to either see this (or admit it) is proof enough of the bias I mentioned in my first post to you in this thread.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Lamech » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:21 am

Ansan Gotti wrote:Second, and you've already been told this many times and have never addressed it satisfactorily, from TRAMENNIS' point-of-view, they have a guaranteed win. The pliers are essentially theirs already. And everything else dies in the hex as well. So anything more than zero is more than GK could expect to get out of it. So he's offering 70-80 dwagons, some decrypted warlords, AND a Foolamancer, and that's just his OPENING offer, in exchange for peace. That's a LOT. Even a fanatic might go for it, because the alternative is ZERO. This is a turn-based game, and that way of thinking is absolutely entrenched.
Saying he is offering dwagons a caster, and warlords "in exhange for peace", is really misleading. While Jetstone can kill those things, GK can kill Jetstone. So its more like dwagons, caster and warlords for all of Jetstone. Thats not even close to an even trade for GK, especially when we consider that GK loses the Jetstone cities they still stand to take.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Ace » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:27 am

I can't even tell if Lamech and Oberon are serious anymore with their replies. It's like they're not even trying.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:27 am

Coming to a gaming convention near you: Erfworld: Web Monkey Death Match.

No keyboards or screens between them! No more anonymity, they all have their handles perma marked on their foreheads! No more theoretical arguments, well founded or not! Because now it's time to put all the claims in the battlespace!

These are no ordinary gamers. These are the greatest, or at least the most opinionated, erfplayers of all time.

The "Actually Quite Spicy" Bland Corporation.

Ace "Up My Sleeve".

Anson "See What I Did There?" Gotti.

"You're So" Lamech.

Ober "Oh It Is" on.

"Selected For Excellence" Selexor.

"In Your Face" effataigus.

And many more.

Three days will pass in our own world, but in the Hexes of Erf, scores if not hundreds of Turns will begin and be ended, and thousands will be croaked. Each Chief Warlord or lady will bring their very best understanding of the Rules, the Conventions, and the Will of the Titans in a head to head war of total domination. The Terrain Attributes will never be the same.

So come and experience this historic event for yourself. Watch this epic struggle of egos and convictions. See them try to take the world, break the world, and perhaps make the world again. Don't be a tool, it'll be shmuckers well spent!
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby OneHugeTuck » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:12 am

Actually, they'd never cross a hex. They'd just stand at the line arguing about how to cross a boundary, if they can actually be passed, and telling the other side what would have happened if they had actually crossed the boundary, and whether the other side can even attempt to move because the Kingworld spell was cast once in the comic.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Selexor » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:45 am

Is it worth pointing out that I apologised several pages ago for derailing this thread and have since been doing my best to stay on-topic? :oops:
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby effataigus » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:09 am

Oh dear... well if we're stuck in the game now... Sleepymancer, any chance the MK is taking asylum applications?

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:Regarding the "snaking", the update was describing what Antium saw at the far end of the Atrium, so a helical path could have been mistaken for side-to-side movement. Air currents might also be involved.


Hahah, whoops. I suppose perspective is a simpler explanation than the motion having an imaginary component.

Selexor wrote:Is it worth pointing out that I apologised several pages ago for derailing this thread and have since been doing my best to stay on-topic? :oops:


Just take it as a compliment, Selexor. Recognition of a week wasted on the forums. A badge of honor, shame, or consolation... depending on perspective of course :D

Btw Dr. Pepper, what do the numbers in your Avatar and sig refer to?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby KiltedNinja » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:57 am

OneHugeTuck wrote:If you look closely, you'll see acid crap golems inside the falling tear drops of poo.

Dirtamancer made them, Parson ordered the dwagons to swallow them whole.

Endgame: Acid craps hits and splashes and croaks Jetstone troops. Then acid crap golems slide about, delivering more crapastation.

One can imagine them bashing from side to side in their teardrop containers, thus the 'snaking' motion through the air.


I'm quite liking this idea - seems like a particularly Parson type of thing.


Dr Pepper wrote:Coming to a gaming convention near you: Erfworld: Web Monkey Death Match.


Table for two please :)
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...I'm still holding out for the Arkenoid...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Ytaker » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:04 am

Lamech wrote:That kingworld is not more powerful than Summon Perfect Warlord because for the coalition to overcome Summon Perfect Warlord they needed Charlie. If Charlie helped Parson, then Charlie could have enticed or forced Haggar to end the turn and kingworld would have done nothing.


...? Charlie cast Kingworld. Why is he helping someone fight against it? Charlie is overpowered because he can force people to end turn at will. He could do that randomly against Kingworld (though he wouldn't as that would be counterproductive), but no one else could, since they lack a fleet of invisible units. Your argument seems to be that Charlie could stop Kingworld by forcing Haggar to end turn. Even beyond whether Haggar could have ended turn for a coalition he didn't command, the only reason Charlie has that power is because he has oodles of wealth which he has used to buy a huge, huge army. Kingworld worked because of his oodles of wealth to hire a turnamancer.

Parson has significantly less forces than the coalition did when they attacked GK. In book one the coalition had four times the forces needed to beat GK at their base. Now GK lacks the force to even defeat Haggar in the field. Again Summon Perfect Warlord turned a certain defeat into a victory; even if Kingworld could do the same (we don't know how likely Parson is too win really), it works once a cast. Summon Perfect Warlord works for the battle your in and then works for the next and the next and the next.


Erm, no, they defeated Haggar with relative ease, despite Gobwin Knob only having a small occupation force, and their fliers being away. Don't you remember?

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_27

Prince Sammy is dead, and all. Then, without the leadership of Ansom, they lost easily against Trammenis. Parson has enough forces to guarantee a 70-90% chance of victory. I'd presume that the 70% chance was for if the caster was a shockamancer, or something incredibly dangerous like that, so with just Jillian's forces and a turnamancer (who might well be ineffective against the very loyal decrypted who would have a high save stat, like Ansom did) his forces were clearly utterly overwhelming.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_25

"With the tower fully spelled-up and four casters on hand to augment more than six hundred archers, no force of flyers could hope to survive the turn. Those archers and casters would do a lot of leveling today. They would drop that enemy Croakamancer, and Ossomer's dust would scatter across the city he once had loved. "

More forces wouldn't be enough, as the king noted. No force of flyers could hope to survive the turn.

Just because the MK hates GK and GK can't use a certain tactic doesn't mean its less valid. (Also not all the MK, see Janice.) And asking "Who's the turnamancer woring for Charlie?" won't seem suspicious; people talk. Charlie is NOT some master thinkamancer. He has a powerful artifact; this doesn't mean he suddenly is better at being in a link. And there are ways that you can learn were the enemy forces are; for example the lookamancy table, or a predictamancer.


Janis is smart, and has a predictomancer working for her. She'd realize Sizemore was trying to get the name for some bad purpose. And as I noted, asking the magic kingdom for the name of a turnamancer is an incredibly fraught activity, since you are violating the neutrality of the magic kingdom for tactical purposes. The probably result is your caster being croaked.

Charlie is probably a mastermind. He's doing a huge amount of thinkamancy, and he's probably levelled up a lot. When I say Charlie is a master thinkamancer, I mean he's probably the top level of thinkamancer, and so has that title. A weak lookamancer survived talking to Parson for a long time, and saying her own name, without the link breaking. Charlie can ignore people with thinkamancy, as he does with Jill, and notes that managing the thinkamancy of a kingdom takes a very disciplined mind. It's reasonable to assume that Charlie has a very disciplined mind, augmented by his arkendish. You might be able to break the link with time, but it would not be an easy, quick thing.

The spell was fairly big and obvious. In the on the final panel of page 21 is doesn’t appear that anyone is in the way of the board. And you break veils with a “spot check” as we see in the text 18, which if you note is at a distinct time. Recognizing veils is something else which you do at any time. And you can save against the spell by it giving you a save and making it, again as we see with the veils you can resist spells that do not affect you.


Doesn't matter that the spell was obvious. The spell was real, unlike foolamancy, so you could not just make it go away by looking at it.

You make a spot check by noticing something is weird. This spell is instantaneous, and so you can't puzzle over something looking wrong. Always, you need a unit to save against some effect- but this spell appears to bypass units, and directly effect whatever controls turns in erfworld. In breaking a veil, you're not resisting a spell- you're recognizing that the veil doesn't look right. That's a big part of the story- there aren't just abstract dice roles, you feel the effect of whatever happens, do it. This spell targets the abstract mechanic. What it should of done was target Stanley. Then, after that, have Maggie offer him some protection, so we'd have some in game reason why it didn't happen again. That would have been better.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 036

Postby Foolamancer » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:14 am

Lamech wrote:Saying he is offering dwagons a caster, and warlords "in exhange for peace", is really misleading. While Jetstone can kill those things, GK can kill Jetstone.


But Gobwin Knob would have to do so without many of its dwagons, in addition to being minus an Arkentool, a master-class Croakamancer and an equally skilled Foolamancer. While it would still be possible, it would be much more expensive than it would be otherwise. A mutual nonaggression treaty would allow Gobwin Knob to focus on fighting the rest of the Coalition while being safe from attack from Jetstone.

Of course, it would put Jetstone on the outs with the rest of the Coalition. Not fighting against Gobwin Knob - and, arguably, actually assisting them - won't make the rest of the Coalition happy. But Trammenis has already made it clear that he considers Royalism v. 'Toolism to be obsolete. He could very well be planning to actually join Gobwin Knob, and simply be using this as the first step. Nonaggression, followed by trade agreements (assuming that Erfworld has such a thing), followed by an actual alliance.

From Trammenis' point of view, he is actually giving Parson a genuinely good offer. Keep some of the most powerful units that you would otherwise lose, and you don't have to deal with us during the rest of your war. Oh, and we'll end up actually helping you in future, as well.

So its more like dwagons, caster and warlords for all of Jetstone. Thats not even close to an even trade for GK, especially when we consider that GK loses the Jetstone cities they still stand to take.


No, it's more like dwagons, Caster, Warlords, a promise of no future conflict with Jetstone (which is still a powerful side, even though it doesn't match Gobwin Knob), and hints of a future alliance in exchange for Jetstone. I'd say that's a pretty good trade. I mean, I'd take it.
"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
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