Book 2 – Page 48

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby effataigus » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:29 pm

Menlo Marseilles wrote:There's still ways to tell one way or the other, unfortunately - other than (possibly) Parson's 3D glasses, people can't see the statblocks of other sides' units.


I was also under this impression but I've since been disabused. Here's the relevant text:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/040a.jpg

You'll see two things:
1. It never definitively says that a person cannot see the stat blocks from opposing sides.
2. Only warlords and casters can definitely see stat blocks... as opposed to regular units..?

Raiment hijinx are still very viable IMO!
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:30 pm

Raza wrote:
Menlo Marseilles wrote:There's still ways to tell one way or the other, unfortunately - other than (possibly) Parson's 3D glasses, people can't see the statblocks of other sides' units.

I think they can. Janis could see Sizemore's bonus change, for one thing.


And seeing units stats block is refered as a standard warlord ability somewhere.
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
User avatar
╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:54 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby Watsit Hoohow » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:31 pm

Heh. Tower Defense.
Very Amazing Adventures (possibly inappropriate)
Watsit Hoohow
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby HandofShadows » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:33 pm

And now Parson will have Heavy Units/Infantry down inside the city. Jetstone is SOL.
HandofShadows
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:38 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby Ansan Gotti » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:35 pm

Love this update! Didn't see the promotion to heavy coming. As for whether other units can be promoted to heavy, I think it's significant that PARSON is a heavy, even though he looks like a (big) generic man-type unit. I bet Wanda, Jack, other riders could be promoted to heavy. Of course, that doesn't address what the dwagons WITHOUT riders are going to do. There is an implication in this update that dwagons might not be able to "voluntarily" stop flying and fall. Maybe they'll need to be croaked. Or converted into food, although I don't find that a particularly appealing outcome (sourmanders and marbits, I could see, but I would have to think that only specific types of units could be harvested for food). Still, the "let's do lunch" comment does seem to indicate some food- or ration- related exploit is coming. Maybe a ton of food will be dropped to provide something softer to land on? Dunno.

Also, something else I only just noticed. Take a look at panel 5 of the following:

http://www.erfworld.com/page/5/

The Tower and the Atrium are absolutely attached to each other.

I had a different view prior to now, but after seeing that panel I'm thinking that an off-turn unit COULD attack other parts of the garrison. It's all attached.
Ansan Gotti
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby shadowdemon_lord » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:38 pm

In a world where people are forced into a killing rage when they encounter enemy units, I find it fairly unlikely that that killing rage isn't based on some sort of natural thinkamancy that transcends regular perception. i.e. Even if Wanda decrypted a large force and put them in the enemy livery the enemy troops would innately identify enemy troops as not their own.
shadowdemon_lord
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:37 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby Ytaker » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:42 pm

shadowdemon_lord wrote:In a world where people are forced into a killing rage when they encounter enemy units, I find it fairly unlikely that that killing rage isn't based on some sort of natural thinkamancy that transcends regular perception. i.e. Even if Wanda decrypted a large force and put them in the enemy livery the enemy troops would innately identify enemy troops as not their own.


See Jack and Stanley's battle with the vamps. They dress as bats with a veil, and aren't attacked. I'd presume dressing as those sorts of units would count as natural foolamancy. Much easier to pierce than a spell, though.
Ytaker
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:23 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby Ansan Gotti » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:44 pm

Ytaker wrote:See Jack and Stanley's battle with the vamps. They dress as bats with a veil, and aren't attacked. I'd presume dressing as those sorts of units would count as natural foolamancy. Much easier to pierce than a spell, though.


They didn't auto-attack because both sides were led by warlords.
Ansan Gotti
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby zilfallon » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:48 pm

shadowdemon_lord wrote:In a world where people are forced into a killing rage when they encounter enemy units, I find it fairly unlikely that that killing rage isn't based on some sort of natural thinkamancy that transcends regular perception. i.e. Even if Wanda decrypted a large force and put them in the enemy livery the enemy troops would innately identify enemy troops as not their own.


I, too, think that merely changing the livery won't be enough. But using foolamancy is a different matter. It changes how a unit perceives reality.
rkyeun wrote:Roses are red.
Violets are blue.

Image
User avatar
zilfallon
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:47 am
Location: Magic Kingdom

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:04 pm

But that particular type of homicadal rage was said to be limited only to unled infantry, which are exactly the units targeted by the attack. Maybe Parson is planning to force jetstone to break its stack (denying their leadership bonus) to be able to effectively attack the decrypted?
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
User avatar
╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:54 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby Ansan Gotti » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:09 pm

I think he's targeting unled infantry simply because they're the softest targets, and Parson needs plenty of bodies to work with... not some bodies and lots of wounded, for tougher troops like elites and the types to be led by warlords.
Ansan Gotti
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby blaklaw » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:11 pm

The yellow dwagons are specifically attacking unlead infantry. Wanda decrypts those with the jetstone emblems, and the lead stacks would be fools and not have any chance of innate desire to attack the enemy. Although if Warlords could see stat blocks, they would still be able to locate and attack the enemies, but if natural foolamancy applies, than food fight confusion issues.
blaklaw
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:06 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:19 pm

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg

Seeing a stat block doesn't look to be enought to know what is the unit's side.
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
User avatar
╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:54 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby BCCroaker » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:20 pm

anschauung wrote:(Unrelated musing: which arkentool would a decrypted dwagon obey? Both?)

GKs dwagons are not under the direct control of the Arkenhammer. What Stanley uses it for is to tame wild dwagons, which then become GK units just like the dwagons that GK cities regularly pop.
As to where the loyalties of the decrypted lie, the only time we have seen a conflict was at the Expository Bridge; when Ansom wanted to report to Stanley and Wanda forbade him. So, we might assume that the decrypted follow the normal chains of command unless Wanda intervenes. To what extent she can do this on a large scale remains moot.
BCCroaker
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby the_tick_rules » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:23 pm

It does seem Wanda's commands can overrride the standard chain of command.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
User avatar
the_tick_rules
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby gameboy1234 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:24 pm

Has anyone figured out the sound effect of Jetstone's tower defense? What is "TD"?

Oh wait. TD = Tower Defense?
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

Avatar hoarked from PS238.
User avatar
gameboy1234
YOTD Supporter!
YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:04 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby Oberon » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:33 pm

Emmerson Grant wrote:His S-bombs nail unled infantry and causes Tramennis to attack him, enabling him to counter-attack.
Geordy wrote:We are still off-turn! So be it uncroaked, turned or healed - you have GK on your forehead, you are not allowed to attack unless being attacked yourself. (except for being yellow and a dragon)
I'm not sure I follow. There seems to be some impression here that the GK units cannot attack unless Jetstone attacks first. Where was it said that you cannot attack off-turn? You can't move (between hexes), which prevents you from attacking unless the enemy enters your hex. But if there are enemy units in your hex, you can attack them.

I don't recall this being directly stated, but it is an artifact of the canon about unled units being forced to attack. If an unled unit is forced to attack, then a led unit must have the option to attack. If an unled unit must attack, then a led stack that enters a hex containing unled enemy units must be attacked, off-turn, by those unled units.
Althernai wrote:
Kizmet wrote:Can dwagons be decrypted? I doubt it just to avoid the "my arkentool is more powerful than yours" pissing contest.
I don't see why not -- practically every unit type can be decrypted.
Especially because, you know, decrypted Archons.
Nihila wrote:Whoa. Promoting units to heavy? Well, now we know of one more special that can be added.
Being a heavy unit is not a special. Bogrolls stats didn't say special at all. Of course, I'm assuming that a Twoll counts as a heavy, but if a unit which is twice as large as a caster isn't a heavy, then what is?
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
Oberon
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:59 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby build6 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:16 pm

oh crap oh crap oh crap

things are looking pretty bad for Tramennis here

he's just too set in his preconceptions/assumptions of what is or is not possible ("we can't lose"), and fitting what he sees into emotions/reasoning that simply does not apply to Parson. Parson's absolutely not the type to do something so petulant... man, did Tramennis simply not understand or believe what Charlie's dossier told him?

oh wait, that's another example of preconception/assumption - he thought Charlie was trying to steer him in a particular direction, and now he's overreacting the other way.

Or maybe Tramennis' thinking was messed up by trying too hard to impress his dad here.

Man, I think it's ironic that Slately here has the correct idea...

Anyways, I'm thinking NOBODY thought of the "promote to heavy" method of triggering a fall - I'm wondering if that has a better survival rating, I mean, did Parson really have a 1/3 chance of dying when he sent Banana flailing to the ground?!? If that was the case then I can't imagine him trying it out so cavalierly (heh when I read that text update I totally did not appreciate the significance of it)

But in that case - that the "promote to heavy" method of putting air units on the ground is "safe" - what exactly was the "risk" then, that Parson and Wanda's discussion involved a statement that there'd be many casualties/it'll be a close thing?
build6
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby atalex » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:24 pm

We've known for months (years, even?) that a lowly piker can be promoted to CW and even heir if the ruler is willing to pay the shmuckers. At this point, I am open to the idea that many, indeed most, special's can be purchased for a unit if there is enough money to spend. I wouldn't consider that terribly unbalanced if the cost-to-special ratio were high enough -- for example, it should be prohibitively expensive, even for a side as rich as GK, to upgrade a noncaster into a caster. However, I certainly don't have a problem with spending money to give the heavy special to the biggest non-heavy unit we've seen.

Frankly, I'm more amazed that this cheat has been staring me in the face for so long and I've never seen it. Parson wants to see if a dragon can carry a heavy, so he tries to ride one. The heavy special and the flight special basically cancel out and cause both to float to the ground without harm. And I was so busy laughing at the pick of a terrified yellow dragon struggling to bear aloft some big fat dude that I never even considered the tactical implications. I love this strip so much.
atalex
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 48

Postby atalex » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:41 pm

Heck, reading back over the entry in which Parson tried to ride Banana, I now see that Rob actually foreshadowed this:

Parson looked up at the circle of small men. "I bet you think that was really stupid," he said to them.

No-one said a word. He put the handkerchief to his bleeding elbow. "Well, yes," he admitted, "yes it was." He grinned. The faces looming over him were suddenly hilarious. "But you gotta admit, you gotta admit! I learned something today!"


We all thought Parson learned a limitation. In reality, he learned a cheat!
atalex
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MonteCristo and 4 guests