Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Trotsky » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:51 am

Zeku wrote:The harvesting exploit is simply an initiative. He's going first, while the enemy is saying 'huh?'

The initiative is essential because we can assume that every archer shooting towards Wanda will be able to land a few arrows, no matter how shielded or far away she is. We can also assume that this is happening concurrently with the S-bombs. Meaning, only a few seconds have passed, so the courtyard is still being evacuated.


Also, this way the riders (all of them) are less likely to be riddled with arrows then if they did this while the enemy was launching volleys at them. I really don't think GK has as much control over what units the towers shoot as the people seem to think. There is just no way that Wanda's mount would be able to absorb all of the shots aimed at her, especially once it is dead.

I do think it is odd that the didn't fly as low as possible before doing this, but that could have just been a bit of artistic license to make the pictures pretty.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Cadrys » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:53 am

the_tick_rules wrote:I wanna harvet a megagwiffon, I wanna know what they taste like.


...Key...Lime...Megagwiffon...
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Selexor » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:56 am

If you harvest a Unipegataur, a hybrid abomination of Harry Potter characters will arrive and declare you're now immortal, but also evil, at which point it will pelt you with the bodies of slain House Elves.

Nobody knows why it does that, it is pretty much the worst thing. It's why nobody harvests Unipegataurs unless they have to.
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Sinistergrasp » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:59 am

valce wrote:
joosy wrote:
valce wrote:I'm confused. Why does he need to harvest them? Why not let the tower kill them? They'll fall anyway, and they can do some damage before they die. Is there something else I've missed? Parson can't be that worried about tower units gaining a few levels...


Well then they would have heavy Hobgobwin and their dwagon mounts on the ground and the rest in the airspace waiting for Jetstone to off them. Also, the riders may be croaked for sure, not just maybe croaked if they use the fall exploit.


That's why he did the Heavy thing... Why is he killing his own dwagons? If only dead units can get onto the ground, why not just let them soak up some tower fire and then fall? Seems like a waste of dwagons. Plus if you had let them die after taking heavy fire it would be less suspicious.

So... yeah, why does he need the harvesting exploit?


Forgive me if it's been mentioned earlier in the thread and I overlooked it... But by a strict interpretation of what Parson has stated, the question I have to ask is how the game system flags where to "spawn" the rations once the Harvest action is performed. While the most logical interpretation is that they'll end up where the body ends up and de-pops and that would be the obvious spirit of the rules as written, from a game logic perspective the rations may be tied to the action instead of the target.

What I mean is that it seems possible the rations will appear in the airspace hex where the dwagons were harvested, raining down on the troops; this possibility seems in line with a lot of what Parson has asked about the 'falling object' rules. Further, though the allied riders who will now be on the ground are in danger of being hit, being promoted to Heavy may give them the ability to better survive the falling object damage than the enemy ground units in addition to forcing the rules to put them on the ground without mechanically making them fall, at least gaining the chance they can stick around for the fight.

So as for needing the exploit, a sudden, sweeping change in the dynamics of the conflict would at least give Parson the leverage to have a more even-handed parley, at least enough to let Wanda survive and possibly even push an alliance.

Actually, he specifically asked about throwing the objects... so he may literally intend to get units to spend their actions throwing extra rations. It would still be unexpected, but it wouldn't promote as much morale loss... Either way, I suppose we'll see. I think the most obvious question that Parson has overlooked so far would be "So... Did the Titans leave any kind of 'holy text' behind when they were through creating the world?"
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Oberon » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:08 am

Allsardane wrote:Question-

Trem isn't stupid.
Yes, he is stupid. And that is the entire issue. Still waiting for Tram to say something like "Hey....wait a minute!", and actually drop the idiot ball. Not holding my breath for that, however. So far Parson has advanced his plan unopposed. Worse than unopposed, Parson has actually said the equivalents of "Hot damn! I couldn't be so lucky as to have such idiot opponents. No, Br'er fox, please don't throw me into that briar patch!"
Sieggy wrote:This way, everybody falls down together. And it will probably happen so fast that Trem will just stand there stunned and shocked with horror at what just happened, so that he'll fail to realize that it WASN'T mass suicide, and order the casters & archers to open fire.
This is my fear as well. For Tram to fail completely to even suspect that he was being suckered by the trickster deity....That will have turned everything that we have been given to expect about Tram upside down. And, it'll suck.
gatherer818 wrote:I'm offically very disturbed. Why would you do that to me?
*shudder* This only reinforces my theory of population growth. As a child, I had a friend who had a rather elaborate Habitrail gerbil cage. Many generations went by, to the point where there started being a large number of 3-legged gerbils and a disturbing repetition of the eating of their own young amongst the gerbils. My fledgling theory on population growth was born: When the population increases, the number of deviants also increases. As the population continues to increase, the degree of variance from the norm will also increase. So, here we are, a population of 7 billion straining the resources of this planet to the bursting point. It is no surprise that we hear more and more about wildly deviant behavior, this is simply what happens to huge populations.
Selexor wrote:Basically I can see the advantages of what Parson's doing, but it's still riddled with holes, which is what stumped me. I guess I just expect too much from him. :P
Relax, and let the power of plot wash away all those logical discrepancies! Parson is doing what he is doing because no one can counter him, or something like that. When Tram, the guy who is positioned as the atypical thinker in a world full of muscle-head warlords, is unable to conceive that the tricky guy he just read all about might be tricking him, well, we have a plot to advance here, and please don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.
Ansan Gotti wrote:I really don't understand why a few people seem bound and determined to paint Tramennis as an idiot. It flies in the face of what we've seen of him so far. So I'm a bit perplexed.
Don't be perplexed! I'll explain it to you. Tram is made out to be a smart guy. This is the warlord who was sent to either triumph by force of arms or perish, and instead he returned with an alliance. This is the guy who his brother asked "Do you ever tire of being right?" when he called the veiled attack, even while he was bubble gummed up. So again, evidence after evidence that Tram is a smart and observant person. And is this smart and observant person even suspecting that Parson, the trickster deity who killed both of his brothers, might be tricking him? Nope. He has been portrayed as being a really clever guy, but when it comes to facing up against the protagonist he needs an idiot ball to hold him back from some very natural conclusions.
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Hello!
Abnaxis wrote:b) Parson is just depending on chance to keep Wanda from dying.
I think that the difference here is that Parson recognizes the risk and takes steps to mitigate it. Which is why both Wanda and Jack have Healomancy scrolls in their hands.
valce wrote:Why is he killing his own dwagons? If only dead units can get onto the ground, why not just let them soak up some tower fire and then fall? Seems like a waste of dwagons. Plus if you had let them die after taking heavy fire it would be less suspicious.

So... yeah, why does he need the harvesting exploit?
The only logical response seems to be that it is a timing issue: If they harvest their own dwagons then they all fall at the same time rather than falling randomly as the TD offs them.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Trotsky » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:10 am

the_tick_rules wrote:I wanna harvet a megagwiffon, I wanna know what they taste like.


In Soviet Erfworld, Meglogwiffon wanna harvest YOU!
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Sieggy » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:11 am

That's why he did the Heavy thing... Why is he killing his own dwagons? If only dead units can get onto the ground, why not just let them soak up some tower fire and then fall? Seems like a waste of dwagons. Plus if you had let them die after taking heavy fire it would be less suspicious.

So... yeah, why does he need the harvesting exploit?[/quote]

Because if he relied on fire from the Tower to take them out, first, Wanda or Jack might be croaked. Second, If he relies on Tower fire croaking the Dwagons, they will fall piecemeal, at different times as they each take individual damage. This way, all the Dwagons get croaked at the same time, everyone drops at exactly the same time, everyone hits the ground at the same time, and Wanda only has to do a single decryption instead of doing them as they hit. It's why an amphibious assault force all hits the beach at the same time . . . Think back on why / how the French screwed up at Crecy . . .

I suspect that the instant he has established a beach head and they CAN open up, the Archons are going to unload everything they have on the forces in the Tower portico in one massive shot, unless Parson has figured out a way to preserve them. The general consensus of the forum is that they're cute & sexy toast. If that's the case, I can't see Parson letting them go to waste - there's too much concentrated firepower there to just let them go without getting some use from them . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Ansan Gotti » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:12 am

Oberon wrote:Relax, and let the power of plot wash away all those logical discrepancies! Parson is doing what he is doing because no one can counter him, or something like that. When Tram, the guy who is positioned as the atypical thinker in a world full of muscle-head warlords, is unable to conceive that the tricky guy he just read all about might be tricking him, well, we have a plot to advance here, and please don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.
Ansan Gotti wrote:I really don't understand why a few people seem bound and determined to paint Tramennis as an idiot. It flies in the face of what we've seen of him so far. So I'm a bit perplexed.
Don't be perplexed! I'll explain it to you. Tram is made out to be a smart guy. This is the warlord who was sent to either triumph by force of arms or perish, and instead he returned with an alliance. This is the guy who his brother asked "Do you ever tire of being right?" when he called the veiled attack, even while he was bubble gummed up. So again, evidence after evidence that Tram is a smart and observant person. And is this smart and observant person even suspecting that Parson, the trickster deity who killed both of his brothers, might be tricking him? Nope. He has been portrayed as being a really clever guy, but when it comes to facing up against the protagonist he needs an idiot ball to hold him back from some very natural conclusions.


I am going to quote Foolamancer from the most recent page of the last reactions thread, as I think it answers you well, and since you haven't responded to him:

Foolamancer wrote:Well, yes. But this is roughly equivalent to saying that "Napoleon is only thought to be smart because he is the brightest of the lot of dullards living in Europe".

Trammenis is probably a brilliant Warlord as well as a cunning diplomat. But he is not omniscient, and even the greatest of military tacticians rarely create anything entirely new. Parson's strength is that he can, and does, create entirely new tactics, strategies, and even escape clauses from the known laws of physics on a regular basis.

Trammenis is smart. "Smart" does not mean "can predict that someone is about to do something which not only has never been done before but is often considered entirely impossible".


Foolamancer wrote:Trammenis isn't a bad leader. But he's up against tactics that no one, ever, in the history of Erfworld, has ever even thought about, let alone fielded. Many brilliant military tacticians have fallen prey to situations like this. The Battle of Agincourt is one such example.

The French army in the Battle of Agincourt was confident of victory, as it consisted largely of mounted knights, which were considered the most deadly units available at the time. The English forces consisted mainly of longbowmen, which were considered weak. Guess which side won?

The plain fact is that most military tacticians are extremely good at thinking inside the box, but often lack the capability to think outside it. They are able to win their battles because the tactics they employ are tried and true: the rolling advance, divide and conquer, guerilla warfare. When someone comes up with a genuinely new tactic, it is often employed to absolutely devastating effect because absolutely no one saw it coming. For example, the tactic which we know as blitzkrieg seems trivially obvious today, but during the opening months of World War Two, it was considered new and ingenious, and allowed Germany to claim victory after victory with few losses.

Trammenis hasn't considered the possibility of Wanda Decrypting the infantry in the Atrium because, up until this point, absolutely no one has attempted to move from air to ground through exploitation of the falling mechanic. He has absolutely no way to see it coming. It's never been done before. It's highly doubtful whether the other sides in Erfworld even known about The Banana Exploit. They couldn't even fathom a plan which allows units to move from the airspace to the Atrium off-turn. It has never even been considered, let alone done. Trammenis could be one of the greatest Warlords to ever live, and it's doubtful that he would see it coming.

He's not holding the idiot ball. He's just not omniscient.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Trotsky » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:18 am

Sieggy wrote:
That's why he did the Heavy thing... Why is he killing his own dwagons? If only dead units can get onto the ground, why not just let them soak up some tower fire and then fall? Seems like a waste of dwagons. Plus if you had let them die after taking heavy fire it would be less suspicious.

So... yeah, why does he need the harvesting exploit?


Because if he relied on fire from the Tower to take them out, first, Wanda or Jack might be croaked. Second, If he relies on Tower fire croaking the Dwagons, they will fall piecemeal, at different times as they each take individual damage. This way, all the Dwagons get croaked at the same time, everyone drops at exactly the same time, everyone hits the ground at the same time, and Wanda only has to do a single decryption instead of doing them as they hit. It's why an amphibious assault force all hits the beach at the same time . . . Think back on why / how the French screwed up at Crecy . . .

I suspect that the instant he has established a beach head and they CAN open up, the Archons are going to unload everything they have on the forces in the Tower portico in one massive shot, unless Parson has figured out a way to preserve them. The general consensus of the forum is that they're cute & sexy toast. If that's the case, I can't see Parson letting them go to waste - there's too much concentrated firepower there to just let them go without getting some use from them . . .


Of course, if the units in the airspace (other than the yellows) could attack the tower there would have been no reason for any of them to leave it in the first place, so it is unlikely that the Archons can do anything. Especially since the one other time archons have been in this situation they have been unable to assist across zones.
Last edited by Trotsky on Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Selexor » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:22 am

Sieggy wrote:I suspect that the instant he has established a beach head and they CAN open up, the Archons are going to unload everything they have on the forces in the Tower portico in one massive shot, unless Parson has figured out a way to preserve them. The general consensus of the forum is that they're cute & sexy toast. If that's the case, I can't see Parson letting them go to waste - there's too much concentrated firepower there to just let them go without getting some use from them . . .
Just picking this from an otherwise very straightforward post - I agree with all your other observations. But the Archons can't shoot at any part of the Tower because of the Zone rules. They might be able to throw some Thinkamancy around, possibly add some boosts to the Gobwin Knob forces before they leave the Airspace, help them land in one piece... but the Archons can't directly interact with any other Zone. Parson might not intend to let them go to waste, but he's got to come up with something clever in this case, because they can't help the battle at all otherwise.


Edit:
Curse your speedy fingers, Trotsky! [/impotent cliche'd rage]
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Ditto » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:24 am

I quite agree, Ansan/Foolamancer. Tram is quite ahead of the curve for a warlord. That Charlie is paranoid at-all-costs when it comes to Parson is nice and will keep him safe, but not necessarily 100% rooted in fact and in any event that's no way for most of the sides in Erfworld to operate. Tram can't help it if an otherwise logical course of action happens to be conducive to Parson's trick. As with the quoted examples above, you're basically saying that defending a stockade against footsoldiers with a fence is a bad plan, especially when I told you that the bad guys are *really clever*. You think you're counter-tricky by protecting by preparing for them to dig under your fence, but it's hardly your fault if they start vaulting over the wall with anti-gravity belts.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:37 am

nth wrote:
╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:I'm not sure if it adress at all the point "We don't even know if non-heir can start their own sides"...


That's back to the question of how Charlie started his own side, which remains unrevealed.

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:By the way nht, I like the way you imagine improbable scenario, would you mind to tell me what it would take for Stanley to decide to pop an heir? just to laugh a bit...


Eh? What did you *think* all those pigeons-from-walnuts were?



Indeed! promoting a pigeon to heir would be very Stanleyish. I can see the man doing just that :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby SomeUnregisteredPunk » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:38 am

Selexor wrote:
Sieggy wrote:I suspect that the instant he has established a beach head and they CAN open up, the Archons are going to unload everything they have on the forces in the Tower portico in one massive shot, unless Parson has figured out a way to preserve them. The general consensus of the forum is that they're cute & sexy toast. If that's the case, I can't see Parson letting them go to waste - there's too much concentrated firepower there to just let them go without getting some use from them . . .
Just picking this from an otherwise very straightforward post - I agree with all your other observations. But the Archons can't shoot at any part of the Tower because of the Zone rules. They might be able to throw some Thinkamancy around, possibly add some boosts to the Gobwin Knob forces before they leave the Airspace, help them land in one piece... but the Archons can't directly interact with any other Zone. Parson might not intend to let them go to waste, but he's got to come up with something clever in this case, because they can't help the battle at all otherwise.


Edit:
Curse your speedy fingers, Trotsky! [/impotent cliche'd rage]



Yeah but we got months to figure this stuff out. He had a few minutes or an hour. He might be the best warlord ever... but sweet geezus that doesn't mean every plan of his will work.

I'd bet he has already wrote off the Archons a lost case... and ol Tram tries to capture them to get some egg off his face.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby ftl » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:39 am

Oberon wrote:[Don't be perplexed! I'll explain it to you. Tram is made out to be a smart guy. This is the warlord who was sent to either triumph by force of arms or perish, and instead he returned with an alliance.


Elaborating on that - I think we might have misinterpreted the evidence a little.

He's made out to be a diplomat, and we assumed that made him be smart or a lateral thinker, since most erf units like stabbing things more than talking. But maybe that just makes him *different*, not smarter.

Stabbers are popped to stab things. That's what they're good at, and that's what they like doing. A stabber CAN do guard duty, or patrol... but at the end of the day, he wants and likes and is good at stabbing.

Tramennis was, unusually, popped as a diplomat. It's what he's good at, it's what he likes doing. He CAN do military campaigns when ordered to - but at the end of the day, he wants and likes and is good at diplomacy.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When all you have is diplomacy, everything looks like a treaty waiting to happen. And that's what we have here. In his first mission out, he did diplomacy instead of fighting... and diplomacy is all he's done since.

So yeah, I'm becoming convinced he's not really that much smarter than the rest. He might seem smarter because he often has a different perspective - but that's because he sees things *differently*, not necessarily better.

This is the guy who his brother asked "Do you ever tire of being right?" when he called the veiled attack, even while he was bubble gummed up. So again, evidence after evidence that Tram is a smart and observant person. And is this smart and observant person even suspecting that Parson, the trickster deity who killed both of his brothers, might be tricking him? Nope. He has been portrayed as being a really clever guy, but when it comes to facing up against the protagonist he needs an idiot ball to hold him back from some very natural conclusions.


Yep, I agree. We've been TOLD he's smart - but we haven't SEEN it actually be true. The most we saw that can be attributed to above-average smarts rather than just a penchant for diplomacy is that he realized that they were about to be attacked. But when it came to the big decisions, he hasn't actually done anything smarter than any other Warlord would. Show, not tell...

I'm hoping that gets reversed, that when he realizes Parson is doing something unusual that he comes up with something unusual of his own to counter it. But it hasn't happened yet. Though there's still plenty of comics to go before the end of the fight!
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Trotsky » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:43 am

Selexor wrote:
Sieggy wrote:I suspect that the instant he has established a beach head and they CAN open up, the Archons are going to unload everything they have on the forces in the Tower portico in one massive shot, unless Parson has figured out a way to preserve them. The general consensus of the forum is that they're cute & sexy toast. If that's the case, I can't see Parson letting them go to waste - there's too much concentrated firepower there to just let them go without getting some use from them . . .
Just picking this from an otherwise very straightforward post - I agree with all your other observations. But the Archons can't shoot at any part of the Tower because of the Zone rules. They might be able to throw some Thinkamancy around, possibly add some boosts to the Gobwin Knob forces before they leave the Airspace, help them land in one piece... but the Archons can't directly interact with any other Zone. Parson might not intend to let them go to waste, but he's got to come up with something clever in this case, because they can't help the battle at all otherwise.


Edit:
Curse your speedy fingers, Trotsky! [/impotent cliche'd rage]


*EVIL LAUGHTER*
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Squishalot » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:50 am

Trotsky wrote:Of course, if the units in the airspace (other than the yellows) could attack the tower there would have been no reason for any of them to leave it in the first place, so it is unlikely that the Archons can do anything. Especially since the one other time archons have been in this situation they have been unable to assist across zones.

Let's see what they can do across zones though?

1) Assist in providing dance fighting bonuses - probably not as useful seeing as Wanda can lead the fight, though it's possible that she may not, given that she'll need to decrypt.

2) Thinkamancy / Lookamancy scouting and calling inc's - it's highly likely that Tramennis and Jetstone generally will turn their focus to the ground force in the Garrison, and ignore the Archons on the basis that 'they can't do anything, otherwise they would have joined the dwagons'.

3) Flashmob. Anything that can distract across zones can potentially open up areas to attack and decrypt.

4) Anti-air. Plot suggests that Jillian will be inbound at some point in time during the fight. Vaporizing a bunch of megalos could be quite useful, especially seeing as they can stack up with Ossomer to get his warlord bonus.

All in all, the archons can be quite useful if employed properly.

Edit: I just realised. The comment in the Klog about sending units to turn - of course you can, because that's what Charlie does all the time! Individual Charlescomm units can act in alliance with a side, taking action on their turn, and taking orders from the ruler / CWL of the side. The Klog simply suggests that it can be done with any units in general, especially considering that Archons are basically just a Knight-class unit.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Trotsky » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:57 am

Squishalot wrote:
Trotsky wrote:Of course, if the units in the airspace (other than the yellows) could attack the tower there would have been no reason for any of them to leave it in the first place, so it is unlikely that the Archons can do anything. Especially since the one other time archons have been in this situation they have been unable to assist across zones.

Let's see what they can do across zones though?

1) Assist in providing dance fighting bonuses - probably not as useful seeing as Wanda can lead the fight, though it's possible that she may not, given that she'll need to decrypt.

2) Thinkamancy / Lookamancy scouting and calling inc's - it's highly likely that Tramennis and Jetstone generally will turn their focus to the ground force in the Garrison, and ignore the Archons on the basis that 'they can't do anything, otherwise they would have joined the dwagons'.

3) Flashmob. Anything that can distract across zones can potentially open up areas to attack and decrypt.

4) Anti-air. Plot suggests that Jillian will be inbound at some point in time during the fight. Vaporizing a bunch of megalos could be quite useful, especially seeing as they can stack up with Ossomer to get his warlord bonus.

All in all, the archons can be quite useful if employed properly.

Edit: I just realised. The comment in the Klog about sending units to turn - of course you can, because that's what Charlie does all the time! Individual Charlescomm units can act in alliance with a side, taking action on their turn, and taking orders from the ruler / CWL of the side. The Klog simply suggests that it can be done with any units in general, especially considering that Archons are basically just a Knight-class unit.

Sure, there are potentially things they could do to indirectly assist in the fight. I was just responding to the specific suggestion that the Archons would at some point nuke the tower.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby Selexor » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:13 am

To me, there's still one more thing that needs to be said in defence of Tramennis. Imagine if the situation was what it is right now... and any Warlord other than Parson, even one as "unconventional" as Charlie, was directing Gobwin Knob's forces right now. The only change to this situation is that Maggie didn't poof Stanley into promoting Parson to Chief Warlord - maybe she held back and someone else got promoted, or it's a hypothetical where Parson isn't around for some reason. The why doesn't matter, just the how: Assume that Parson isn't directing this battle, and thus his plan won't happen.

Without Parson around, Tramennis has been handed his most powerful enemy on a silver platter. He can end the Toolist Crusade, he can force Gobwin Knob into a non-agression treaty, he can end Jetstone's financial troubles, he can reclaim the Arkenpliers, and he can do it all his way - not by fighting, but by negotiating. None of that is conjecture, it's exactly what he intends to do, and if Gobwin Knob refuses, he can simply order them shot down. Helpless.
The whole point of Parson's presence in Erfworld is that he's a gamer looking for exploits. In a battle in the real world, nobody lays out a battle plan and then says, "Yes, but what if we can teach our soldiers to temporarily ignore physics?" Parson's nature is to do exactly this, and the reason he's such an unstoppable power in Erfworld is because no natural-popped Erf Dweller would ever think the way he does. So it's almost certain that no other Warlord would come up with a way to cheat the laws of Erfworld and get their side out of this mess.
If Parson isn't there to get Gobwin Knob out of their current predicament, then Jetstone basically wins. And Tramennis isn't just the lucky Warlord who got handed a no-lose scenario and then won by displaying basic sentience; he's the brilliant thinker who not only still won the day, but put his enemies on a million-schmucker leash and made his side many times more powerful out of the bargain. Any way you cut it, that's a clever move.

The problem is Parson - Tramennis is underestimating him. And he's underestimating Parson despite several extremely clear warnings that he shouldn't do it. And yes, that's stupid, but it doesn't make Tramennis an idiot... it makes him naive, gullible, whatever you want to call it. I'd even go so far as to say it makes him a little bit arrogant for thinking he's got this Trickster over a barrel. But a clever person can sometimes make a stupid mistake. My opinion is, we're seeing one of those times... and it just happens to be an unusually terrible mistake that Tramennis is making.
Think of it like The Tortoise And The Hare. Nobody doubted that the Hare was fast. Not the other animals, not the Tortoise, certainly not the Hare. But because the Hare was so convinced he was going to win, he did something incredibly stupid, and it got him in the end. Now, if he could run his race a second time, I bet he'd not make the same mistake twice. And win or lose, he's still fast. He just made a big mistake.
Tramennis is smart. Everyone seems very aware in Erfworld that Tramennis is smart. He's just making a big mistake. And I'd bet that he'll learn from it. If Tramennis survives this fight, Parson might have a new, and fairly dangerous enemy.
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby effataigus » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:36 am

In the spirit of "reactions"... on the last forum I posted that I was concerned by the presentation of the hobgobwin growth mechanic... I'm over it now!

I was worried then that an obscure and slightly out of place rule, withheld from the readers until it became important, was going to be the plot point upon which everything hinged. Now we know that hobgobwin growth is really just a slightly better way to get the dwagons to ground though, so it's not a terribly important part of the plan. The harvest mechanic isn't a problem just because, to me at least, it never crossed my mind that the riders couldn't kill their own mounts. Also, the kill the mount mechanic is just a better way to get the riders to ground than dismounting (which we know to be possible thanks to Jillian).

It's good to be in the satisfied reader camp again. I think I'll celebrate with an emoticon of dubious usefulness!

:arrow:
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

Postby OneHugeTuck » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:46 am

Trotsky wrote: There is just no way that Wanda's mount would be able to absorb all of the shots aimed at her, especially once it is dead.



Well, actually, once it's dead it could absorb ALL the shots, no problem.
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