Book 2 – Text Updates 037

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby Oberon » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:51 am

Glenn wrote:Up until the moment when Stanley arrived at Faq with that overwhelming force of Dwagons, Wanda had been acting in a way that was entirely consistent with her Duty to Faq.
No. Complete disagreement. Except for any consideration about bringing the leader she is Duty and Loyalty bound to in on her plan, you might have a point. But Wanda did not. No, I don't think that any rational analysis can say that Wanda was working for her Side. She may claim that plotting to have a weak 'Tool holder attack and die against the FAQ defenses was all in the best interests of FAQ, but that is pure equivocation. She could not know that Stanley was only intending on bringing 15 dwagons. She could not know that Stanley wouldn't arrive with an overwhelming force, as it did. She must have known that security through obscurity was the strongest FAQ defense, and that she was violating it horribly by letting an opposing Side know where the FAQ cities were. Once she was letting slip the location of FAQ cities, she was a traitor. She had no idea if Stanley would simply sell that information to Transylvito or Jetstone, for example. She was the wort kind of traitor, expecting the best for herself while ignoring the worst that would happen to those to whom she owed her loyalty.

No, what Wanda did, regardless of her intentions, was outright treachery. Had she brought Banhammer into her plot she could be excused, but instead she revealed the most important secret of her Side without the permission of the man who had the ultimate responsibility for the security of that Side. And, she was proven wrong. In the world of "it's easier to get forgiveness than permission", getting forgiveness always relies on being proven right.
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Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby Oberon » Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:13 am

fractal wrote:But perhaps the true price to buy such a spell would actually be far higher - after all, this spell required many casters and a dangerous link. No side might actually have enough schmuckers to pay for it. They only sold it to Stanley for a price that a side could afford because of their ulterior motives.
Facts about the SPWL scroll:
The price was almost the entire GK treasury. Which no Side could be assured of paying unless its back was well against the wall, as the general feeling was that a warlord was a warlord.
GK was against he wall, and still GK skimmed on the support portion of the spell.
The RCC Sides all poured a lot of shmuckers into crushing Stanley. Shmuckers which they lost. Both TV and Jetstone are seen to be shmucker-poor after the events of Book 1.
GK post-Book 1 is possibly the richest Side on Erf. While we haven't heard numbers, if Stanley once reduced from 11 cities to 1 is able to have a treasury of over 500k shmuckers, then a Side which is possibly the richest Side on Erf should have even more cash reserves.

The logical conclusion here is that there is no other Side local to the current conflict other than GK which could afford a second SPWL scroll. Except for perhaps Charlescomm. Charlescomm may be assumed to know about the SPWL scroll due to the good relations Charlie has with the MK. But that doesn't make sense given Charlies fears about Parson. If Charlie thought that a purchase of 350k would neutralize Parson, it might be expected that he would do so rather than funding Jillian. Hmmm....
Last edited by Oberon on Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby Snowtitan » Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:18 am

Dr Pepper wrote:
Snowtitan wrote:In this I see parallels with Asimov's foundation series, where R Daneel, and R Giskard (is that right?, been a while), formulated the 0th law of robotics where a robot must work towards the betterment of mankind, even overriding the famous 1st, 2nd and 3rd laws.


Wasn't in Foundation. It was in an anthology called "The Rest of the Robots".


Ahh, found it, first in 'Robots and Empire', but also in 'Prelude to Foundation', and 'Foundation and Earth'

Issac Asimov - foundation and Empire wrote:“Just before Giskard’s end, he conceived of a robotic law that superseded even the first. We called it the ‘Zeroth Law’ out of an inability to think of any other name that made sense. The Zeroth Law is: ‘A robot may not injure humanity or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.’ This automatically means that the First Law must be modified to be: ‘A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm, except where that would conflict with the Zeroth Law.’ And similar modifications must be made in the Second and Third Laws.”
Oh no.. not again.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby GaryThunder » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:23 am

However, I'll point out that it is contradicted by Stanley's account of the battle. Wanda didn't wait for Stanley to threaten her side; she actively turned as soon as he arrived, and used her own Uncroaked to kill her King.


That might have been a function of Wanda looking over the parapet, seeing Stanley coming along with his - "what the boop, where did he get that many dwagons? We're boned" - group, calculating that Faq could not survive that onslaught, and deciding to turn then and there as a means of getting herself closer to the Arkentool she thought would become hers. Or sheer opportunism. Hard to say with Wanda.

No, what Wanda did, regardless of her intentions, was outright treachery. Had she brought Banhammer into her plot she could be excused, but instead she revealed the most important secret of her Side without the permission of the man who had the ultimate responsibility for the security of that Side. And, she was proven wrong. In the world of "it's easier to get forgiveness than permission", getting forgiveness always relies on being proven right.


Wanda wasn't making her judgment that Stanley's attack would fail based on an analysis of his attack force, she made that judgment based on her thought that Stanley was an imbecile. She thought he was too dumb to bring a proper force capable of taking Faq, and this doesn't seem to be an unreasonable analysis, given Faq's defensive strength. She leaked the location of her cities, but not the strength of them, perhaps misleading Stanley into thinking a small force would be enough, given her confiding to Stanley that Faq was "pretty weak" when its defenses were in fact substantial. She was clearly setting him up for failure. Stanley may be too convinced of his own awesomeness to see it, but it's there.

And Wanda couldn't have told Banhammer, if she wanted any shot at the Arkenhammer. How do you think a Ruler, especially a philosophically inclined Royal like Banhammer was, would handle the news that one of his casters had revealed the absolutely critical secret of his primary city's location to an artifact-wielding dwagon-packing warlord from a non-Royal (militaristic?) side, especially given that the fall of his city had already been Predicted? He might disband her on the spot. Besides, the fact that the city fell despite all of its defenses apparently working well is probably meant to serve as an implication that the city could not have withstood Stanley's attack, even if warned. City like that, especially when the Heir is off being a mercenary, it makes sense that it would have its tightest defenses up most of the time. Jack being there to cast a veil wouldn't have helped, as it's tough to mislead a guy away from a city that he knows the location of. Telling Banhammer would have wrecked her chances at ever securing the 'Hammer, even if Faq survived the assault, as it would have instantly flagged her as a traitor and almost certainly destroyed any opportunity for her to recover the 'Hammer post-battle. The best spoils don't tend to go to people who caused the failure of the city's best defense and invited a potentially ruinous attack.

She could not know that Stanley was only intending on bringing 15 dwagons. She could not know that Stanley wouldn't arrive with an overwhelming force, as it did. She must have known that security through obscurity was the strongest FAQ defense, and that she was violating it horribly by letting an opposing Side know where the FAQ cities were. Once she was letting slip the location of FAQ cities, she was a traitor. She had no idea if Stanley would simply sell that information to Transylvito or Jetstone, for example. She was the wort kind of traitor, expecting the best for herself while ignoring the worst that would happen to those to whom she owed her loyalty.


Wanda was acting as a traitor when she revealed Faq's location to Stanley, indeed, but she was committing (what at the time she understood to be) a lesser treachery to obtain a greater prize. She could have used a utilitarian justification. Of course, if it turns out that she deliberately waited until Jillian was gone before she invited over Stanley, regardless of her motive (possibly to protect Jillian?) that would be base treachery. Jillian's presence might not have turned the tide, but it - and her massive leadership bonus - was necessary for Faq to defend itself as fully as possible. As is, Faq's full defense sans Jillian wasn't enough. By reducing Faq's defensive strength, Wanda would then be truly betraying her side. But that's just speculation.

Wanda seemed to have enough of a measure of Stanley to accurately predict that he would not sell Faq's location to Jetstone or Transylvito or another side, but would attack by himself. She knew enough about him to see that he was a bit of an idiot, she could have foreseen his likeliest response to learning Faq's location. A guy like Stanley seems much more likely to personally lead an attack rather than to see even an ally score an opportunistic kill that could have been his, especially given that he openly had a "I am the Titans' favored son" complex as a result of attunement to the Arkenhammer. So there's that.

I believe Wanda was honestly trying to watch Stanley go down in flames (that being her most direct chance of attuning to an Arkentool at the time), as Faq was strong enough that even when blindsided its tower was capable of shooting down ten dwagons just on approach (no mean feat) and its other defenses seemed similarly sturdy, but when she saw his overwhelmingly powerful attack force, said "Disband it, guess I booped this one up, better luck with the winning team" and jumped ship.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby GaryThunder » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:49 am

Heh, didn't read Oberon's second post and my previous one was getting too long. New post for new response.

Facts about the SPWL scroll:
The price was almost the entire GK treasury. Which no Side could be assured of paying unless its back was well against the wall, as the general feeling was that a warlord was a warlord.
GK was against he wall, and still GK skimmed on the support portion of the spell.
The RCC Sides all poured a lot of shmuckers into crushing Stanley. Shmuckers which they lost. Both TV and Jetstone are seen to be shmucker-poor after the events of Book 1.
GK post-Book 1 is possibly the richest Side on Erf. While we haven't heard numbers, if Stanley once reduced from 11 cities to 1 is able to have a treasury of over 500k shmuckers, then a Side which is possibly the richest Side on Erf should have even more cash reserves.


You're looking at this from the wrong perspective, I think. A spell as powerful and level-breaking as Summon Perfect Warlord, especially given that we now know that it took extensive and secretive machinations to produce it, doesn't seem like the sort that would be mass-produced by the Magic Kingdom for something as crass as mere monetary gain. Marie, who seems to be the primary actor in the spell's creation, had a significant motive in doing so that far outweighed simple profit. She was trying to end war itself by producing a warlord who was so good (and brought such a different and non-war-centric viewpoint to the table, in stark opposition to the warfare-driven warlords normally popping in Erfworld) that he would break the institution of war itself and allow peace to come to a world that could otherwise never know it. Given all of this, it's nonsensical to think that she would sign off on, or even allow (if such was in her power) mass production of these ridiculously influential and crushingly difficult (risky?) spells just so she could make some Schmuckers. What use does Marie, in the Magic Kingdom, even have for Schmuckers? The Rand system doesn't seem like it would allow free conversion from Schmuckers, or else the Moneymancers would still rule, and paying upkeep in the MK (however that works) almost certainly wouldn't require that kind of dough. It's not as if she could just start her own side, as far as we know, and what else would she do with such riches?

Jetstone has emptied its treasury to the point where they don't even have 25,000 Schmuckers to designate Tramennis heir, and that's with harvesting of valuable heavies simply to keep their units fed. GK's half-million bankroll at the beginning of Book 1 seems to be a bit large for a side in their position, which could have any number of explanations. But SPW isn't a spell a side would cast in a winning position, as it would be a severe and seemingly unnecessary financial blow for a gain that, in that situation, would not appreciably change the side's power. To their knowledge, anyway. If you're already winning, a perfect warlord isn't exactly going to change things, even if he's as good as is claimed. And most losing sides probably (reasoned speculation) wouldn't have that kind of money to spare on one warlord. Stanley was in a distinctly uncommon situation, it seems. It might be Fate, or Fate helped by Wanda as she convinced him that dumping 70% of their considerable treasury on a single unit was a cost-effective use of their resources. Ironically, Stanley's relatively low intelligence and pliability to Wanda's coaxing (remember how she seduced him into not disbanding Parson?) might have aided him in leading him to agree to this rather risky plan, where a "smarter" or "more decisive" ruler might have dismissed it as too impractical or too unlikely to succeed.

Basically, SPW was a rare and powerful spell that took a great deal of planning and Predictamancy to be effective, not a pointless money tree for the Magic Kingdom.

The logical conclusion here is that there is no other Side local to the current conflict other than GK which could afford a second SPWL scroll. Except for perhaps Charlescomm. Charlescomm may be assumed to know about the SPWL scroll due to the good relations Charlie has with the MK. But that doesn't make sense given Charlies fears about Parson. If Charlie thought that a purchase of 350k would neutralize Parson, it might be expected that he would do so rather than funding Jillian. Hmmm....


Regarding Charlescomm, remember, there are no warlords in Charlescomm. None. Archons only, with a contingent of golems to defend the city...he probably hires out Dollamancers to keep that army strong, but that's just more speculation. Given Charlie's implied stance vis-a-vis warlords, I can't really see him throwing down half a million Schmuckers of his hard-earned cash, or even 350k, for a "perfect" example of a unit type he's decided he can do without, even to counter Parson. Charlie sees Parson as such a four-alarm drop-everything-and-deal-with-this-now threat that he would never risk a second "perfect warlord" to exist, even on his side, for fear of the potential fallout from his/her mere existence. This is even assuming another copy of SPW would be for sale, to Charlie of all people, which I doubt for several reasons. Lastly, Charlie seems like a guy enamored of his own intelligence, which probably has a lot to do with why he has no warlords - he doesn't trust anyone to be smart enough to plan correctly except himself. A "perfect warlord" would steal Charlie's thunder, which an egomaniac like Charlie wouldn't permit for a second.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby CaesarVH » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:20 am

[quote="Dr Pepper"]So-- how come the birds aren't also singing out love between my brothers and my sisters?

Heh, lookamancer named Hubble.

And Marie? Her accent could be caribbean, could be deep south. Cajun? Voodoo? But that would be more appropriate for a croakamancer. Rastafarian? That would better fit a foolamancer. Blues singer? Be appropriate. In real life Janis Joplin sang gospel before she got into rock. It would be appropriate and even cliche to have met some blues singers along the way. I'm sure someone else will get it and then i'll feel like an idiot.

pirates? her accent kept reminding me of something, and then you mentioned her accent.

Tia Dalma, from Pirates of the Carribbean. (fortune teller/witch doctor, at least untill in the movies she is revealed as the Goddess Calypso)
Also predicts future, also talks like that, also:
in the Pirates Trilogy Jack knows her from way back, almost from a different life (aparently they had been inseparable) in Erworld, we also know a Jack. He has been a Faq unit, just like this predictamancer.

Im not having a clue on the name tho.. Marie Curie? but thats not very future-ish
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby kagato23 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:25 am

zilfallon wrote:
Oberon wrote:No, we can't. And it's not "crap", unless you just want to blindly accept things without doing a little prodding at the logic behind them. Yes, only one was made, and it was made with a specific customer in mind.


Agreed with you. Also, I think the spell will be used again. Remember, Rob said that one of Parson's friend is going to be a part of the story :) But are they really as good as Parson is? I mean, Parson only gamed, they seemed to have normal lifes :D


Yeah, but Odds are they've beat him at least once. Probably not the majority of the time, but he strikes me as a good DM which means he had good players. Especially if he thought they were up to his whole "no conventional win" game.

My guess is, if there's another scroll made (probably by or for Charlie, who knows enough about what's up to know that'd be what is needed), the criteria on it will be "somebody who has/can beat Lord Hamster in strategy."

Naturally, it's going to Plot forth one of his gaming buddies.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby GaryThunder » Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:52 am

Whoever will cause Parson's players to come into the story, I really don't think it'll be Charlie. My main reason why is buried in those epic rants I posted a few hours ago, but the short version is that Charlie thinks too highly of himself to admit that he needs assistance, even from a "perfect" warlord capable of matching Parson, to put so much effort into arranging a casting of SPW for his team. He doesn't use warlords...probably thinks he doesn't need them, doesn't like to delegate. Since he can communicate with any of his Archons at pretty much any time, he can micromanage freely without need of intermediaries,..and the Archons with leadership neatly fill the other hole left by a lack of warlords.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby hajo » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:04 am

it's no shame to live in the Magic Kingdom, unless you are a Predictamancer.


I wonder why...
Assuming that Predictamancers are among the more useful types of casters, did she get no job-offers ?
Or did she refuse to work for any ruler that made a bid for her ?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby zilfallon » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:19 am

GaryThunder wrote:Whoever will cause Parson's players to come into the story, I really don't think it'll be Charlie. My main reason why is buried in those epic rants I posted a few hours ago, but the short version is that Charlie thinks too highly of himself to admit that he needs assistance, even from a "perfect" warlord capable of matching Parson, to put so much effort into arranging a casting of SPW for his team. He doesn't use warlords...probably thinks he doesn't need them, doesn't like to delegate. Since he can communicate with any of his Archons at pretty much any time, he can micromanage freely without need of intermediaries,..and the Archons with leadership neatly fill the other hole left by a lack of warlords.


Yes but Charlie actually wanted Parson to work for him.

Also, i still don't think that Parson's friends are as good as Parson. As I've said before, they seemed to have normal lifes while Parson admitted that the ONLY thing in life which picked his interest was strategy. It's hard for "normal people" to be as good as someone who dedicated his life to strategy :D
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby GaryThunder » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:01 pm

I wonder why...
Assuming that Predictamancers are among the more useful types of casters, did she get no job-offers ?
Or did she refuse to work for any ruler that made a bid for her ?


The implication, I think, is that if a Predictamancer was worth a damn as a caster, he/she would have been able to predict, report and thus avoid any side-ending catastrophes. The presence of a Predictamancer in the Magic Kingdom implies that his/her predictions were insufficient to prevent his/her side from falling, which is a bit shameful, seeing as with a rare few exceptions (Wanda, namely) a caster is only good at his/her primary discipline. A Predictamancer who isn't even good enough to save his/her side is not much of a Predictamancer, and thus not useful for much of anything...or at least this seems to be the popular view in the Magic Kingdom.

Yes but Charlie actually wanted Parson to work for him.

Also, i still don't think that Parson's friends are as good as Parson. As I've said before, they seemed to have normal lifes while Parson admitted that the ONLY thing in life which picked his interest was strategy. It's hard for "normal people" to be as good as someone who dedicated his life to strategy


Charlie wanted Parson to work for him because of the enormously useful Mathamancy bracer Parson has and, partly, because Charlie was intrigued enough by Parson's ability that he was willing to make an exception to his no-warlords policy to see what Parson was capable of. And then Charlie saw what Parson was capable of, and switched his main objective from "entice/force into working for me" to "holy boop, holy boop, eliminate at all costs."

And I don't think any one of Parson's friends is a match for Parson. But if all four were to act as a team? Speaking as a Game Master myself, there is no devious plan, no cunning intrigue, no marvelous strategy that any GM can possibly produce that a group of four players cannot completely run into the ground inside of ten minutes. PCs (player characters, for the three of you that don't know) combine unpredictability with utter shamelessness and lateral thinking, with just a pinch of complete awesome. No plan survives contact with PCs. Together, they could wreck Parson by outguessing him with Earth styles of thought...also, it seems moderately likely that they would see Erfworld as a game world and not a real place as Parson has grown to see it (at least, at first they would) and thus beat Parson's humane strategies with cold, ruthless gamelike solutions.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby timh » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:10 pm

Not sure if someone had mentioned this before, but the way they're talking about "the predictamancers knew" "the lookamancer knew" and "the thinkamancers thought they knew" it kind of seems like the spell was forged, not in a trimancer link but in an even larger link.

I mean.. predictamancers = at least 2 + 1 lookamancer + thinkamancers = at least 2 (though they don't -have- to be in the link, but could just've been used to unravel it like the sizemore-wanda-maggy linkup)

in any case, the way they're talking about the way the spell was forged; it sounds like there were at least 4 casters linked up..
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby effataigus » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:19 pm

So some people think Banhammer was in on the plot, eh?

Well, then... are you sure he is dead? Stanley saw Wanda come out with an uncroaked king, but Jack was also in that city. If I were in on that plot I'd slip out the back (so the city still gets captured) while having Jack set up a dummy to look like undead-me. If Jack was also in on this plot, then it would explain why he has repeatedly refused to turn back to Faq despite offers :)

Of course this would all fly in the face of Janis' internal monologue regarding who knows about the plot. That monologue also argues against the speculation in the post above mine. This is, of course, assuming that Marie even told Janis.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby zilfallon » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:54 pm

timh wrote:Not sure if someone had mentioned this before, but the way they're talking about "the predictamancers knew" "the lookamancer knew" and "the thinkamancers thought they knew" it kind of seems like the spell was forged, not in a trimancer link but in an even larger link.

I mean.. predictamancers = at least 2 + 1 lookamancer + thinkamancers = at least 2 (though they don't -have- to be in the link, but could just've been used to unravel it like the sizemore-wanda-maggy linkup)

in any case, the way they're talking about the way the spell was forged; it sounds like there were at least 4 casters linked up..


why does it have to mean that more than 3 casters were linked just because predictamancers knew about the spell? I mean, Marie knew what Janis was going to say. It shouldn't have been hard for master-class predictamancers to "see" the SPW.
And again, it doesn't have to mean that multiple thinkamancers joined the link. It can man that the thinkamancer in the link knew about it partially and told his other thinkamancer friends. I'm still on the side which says "max link-up is 3 casters" but i'm looking forward to Parson testing this "rule" :D
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby Dr Pepper » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:06 pm

GaryThunder wrote:
And I don't think any one of Parson's friends is a match for Parson. But if all four were to act as a team? Speaking as a Game Master myself, there is no devious plan, no cunning intrigue, no marvelous strategy that any GM can possibly produce that a group of four players cannot completely run into the ground inside of ten minutes. PCs (player characters, for the three of you that don't know) combine unpredictability with utter shamelessness and lateral thinking, with just a pinch of complete awesome.


Or at least it should be that way. I always tell my players, "you've got more brains on your side, use them".
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby Dr Pepper » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:08 pm

If Banhammer is still alive, how did Jillian become the ruler?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby kagato23 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:12 pm

Wait, what?

Not only do we know Banhammer is dead, but Wanda used his corpse to fight his own men.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:15 pm

GaryThunder wrote:And I don't think any one of Parson's friends is a match for Parson. But if all four were to act as a team? Speaking as a Game Master myself, there is no devious plan, no cunning intrigue, no marvelous strategy that any GM can possibly produce that a group of four players cannot completely run into the ground inside of ten minutes. PCs (player characters, for the three of you that don't know) combine unpredictability with utter shamelessness and lateral thinking, with just a pinch of complete awesome. No plan survives contact with PCs. Together, they could wreck Parson by outguessing him with Earth styles of thought...also, it seems moderately likely that they would see Erfworld as a game world and not a real place as Parson has grown to see it (at least, at first they would) and thus beat Parson's humane strategies with cold, ruthless gamelike solutions.


Plus, they might end up at different sides and cause those sides to cooperate more effectively than usually seen on Erf. ("Meta-gaming".)


timh wrote:Not sure if someone had mentioned this before, but the way they're talking about "the predictamancers knew" "the lookamancer knew" and "the thinkamancers thought they knew" it kind of seems like the spell was forged, not in a trimancer link but in an even larger link.

I mean.. predictamancers = at least 2 + 1 lookamancer + thinkamancers = at least 2 (though they don't -have- to be in the link, but could just've been used to unravel it like the sizemore-wanda-maggy linkup)

in any case, the way they're talking about the way the spell was forged; it sounds like there were at least 4 casters linked up..


Perhaps the creation of the scroll required multiple steps and the casters involved weren't all linked up at the same time.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby effataigus » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:35 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:If Banhammer is still alive, how did Jillian become the ruler?


Well, there went that theory!

Hmm, but I suppose that doesn't rule out Jack possibly being in on it...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 037

Postby GaryThunder » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:03 pm

Or at least it should be that way. I always tell my players, "you've got more brains on your side, use them".


A guy like Parson probably wouldn't tolerate a group not up to his standards. If all you have in your life is gaming, then by God you take it seriously. The four players combined could be a strong opposition, or they could break up and provide fractious resistance wherever Parson tries to maneuver. Friggin' players, man. You can have a great plan or a rotten plan, it won't matter, because half an hour in they'll be sailing past the tattered remains of your Final Emergency Backup Plan E and wreaking merry havoc with the world you so meticulously built. Even Charlie can't screw with Parson as effectively as a good group of players who like to think unconventional. (And Parson sticking them with an unbeatable scenario that required lateral thinking to win indicates that this is a talent of this particular group.)

Well, then... are you sure he is dead? Stanley saw Wanda come out with an uncroaked king, but Jack was also in that city. If I were in on that plot I'd slip out the back (so the city still gets captured) while having Jack set up a dummy to look like undead-me. If Jack was also in on this plot, then it would explain why he has repeatedly refused to turn back to Faq despite offers


As Dr Pepper pointed out, Banhammer croaked, stood up as basic infantry, probably killed a lot of tearful, unbelieving Faq soldiers before he finally collapsed into dust, Jillian should have taken the throne, but whoopsie, no more throne left to take. Significantly, though, Jack was not in the city Stanley attacked.

"Plus...their Foolamancer wasn't even in the capital. Wanda arranged that, too. We captured him when we razed their other two cities. Pretty neat package, right?"

Anyway, I really don't see a guy like Jack going along with this plot, simply because it's kind of outside his sphere. He appears to be in awe of Parson and his terrible warmaking talent, he doesn't seem in a great hurry to end the very concept of warfare. He likes Parson, but that's probably more based on Parson being Parson than his status as Perfect Warlord. And Jack explained, in his usual roundabout way, exactly why he refused to turn to Faq: he truly believes that Parson is good enough not just to extricate them from this present situation, but good enough to bring down the whole world. So good, in fact, that Jack doesn't dare join a side that stands against him, whatever crush he (along with the rest of the booping world) has on Jillian.

Not sure if someone had mentioned this before, but the way they're talking about "the predictamancers knew" "the lookamancer knew" and "the thinkamancers thought they knew" it kind of seems like the spell was forged, not in a trimancer link but in an even larger link.

I mean.. predictamancers = at least 2 + 1 lookamancer + thinkamancers = at least 2 (though they don't -have- to be in the link, but could just've been used to unravel it like the sizemore-wanda-maggy linkup)

in any case, the way they're talking about the way the spell was forged; it sounds like there were at least 4 casters linked up..



Perhaps the creation of the scroll required multiple steps and the casters involved weren't all linked up at the same time.


I think when the update refers to "the Thinkamancers," it's meant to imply that since the casters in the Magic Kingdom tend to form cliques based on the individual disciplines, the one Thinkamancer that created the spell shared what he thought was total knowledge with the other Thinkamancers in his social group. Since this Thinkamancer was obviously critically lacking in context, though, he didn't have the complete story, hence that lot only sort of thinking they knew what was going on.

This leaves the remaining actors to be a Findamancer, Hubble the Lookamancer, and possibly a Predictamancer. But there's no direct textual statement that the Predictamancers were actually in the link that created the SPW spell. Wanda says, way back in the beginning of Book 1, that "the Findamancers and Predictamancers have forged a spell together," but that's just a strong implication and not actual proof. It could have been a Thinkamancer/Findamancer/Lookamancer link, with the Predictamancers heavily involved in SPW's research and subtly engineering its development but not physically linked to create it. SPW doesn't seem to have much of a Predictamancy element, anyway...Lookamancy to trawl all the various worlds in existence for a suitable one and Findamancy, once such a world is located, to isolate a given mind within it based on given characteristics, yes, but there's no real avenue for Predictamancy to be included. Maybe the Predictamancers foresaw SPW and its fallout, and took steps to ensure its existence. Wanda's seeming misstatement about Predictamancers being among the spell's creators could be a quickly papered-over slip of the tongue betraying her knowledge of Marie's and the others' involvement. When next she discusses SPW, with Jillian, she refers to it as Findamancy/Lookamancy. And directly casting or not, it seems to me that the Predictamancers tend to know pretty well what's going on the MK, especially concerning events of this magnitude.
GaryThunder
 
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