Book 2 – Page 50

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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Kyrt » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:34 pm

Whispri wrote:He's far too slow on the uptake, it's too late.


He took a few seconds to realise what was happening. I'd call that pretty fast, especially given the lateral thinking that spawned the exploit.

About the only thing I'm not sure of is whether evacuating the Atrium was smart move....it removes JS troops form the arrow storm giving the archersa freer hand, and prevents new bodies from being around to be decrypted but more bodies may have helped them get Wanda quickler.

Attackwise, I'd imagine the archers can shoot as many different targets as they have arrows.


Hes committed them to attack the ground targets in the atrium. Does that mean airborne targets in the airspace are safe? They are in another zone... Probably not, now that I come to think about it...Tram himself was involved in a battle earlier this turn but its still a possibility. As it is, he'd possibly be wiser to saturate the area as much as he can to kill off as many decrypted as he can while he can. Ossomer and the archons can't hurt him....the decrypted can.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby danhaas » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:50 pm

As usual, an awesome story with awesome art. I loved the background, specially the decapitated dwagon and the soldier cut in half.

As for the battle strat, if Wanda can find a way to avoid the arrows, the Healomancer of Jetstone is gonna have to be a real badass if they hope to survive the turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby warriortribble » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:51 pm

If Trammenis remembered the Foolamancer, I wonder if he would've been hard-hearted enough to not order an evacuation and make the troops stab randomly at the ground to find Wanda instead.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Rizban » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:21 pm

I love the fact that it's the veiled Jack who points out where the Foolamancied fake Wanda is sprawled out on the ground. That's just adding insult to injury and is completely his style. I love it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Archaic » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:23 pm

Aside from the dragons...where are the rest of GK's troops? I can't really see any in the panels. Why do I have the feeling that, hidden amongst the Jetstone troops evacuating the Atrium are all the GK troops who survived their falls, ready to launch a surprise attack where they can't be targeted by the archers.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Sieggy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:36 pm

I assume he thinks that Jack was killed or injured by the fall, so I can understand his forgetting about him. At this point, Trem and everyone else is focused on watching Duke Antium getting duped as he stabs an illusionary Wanda repeatedly. (are the watcher on the Tower fooled as well?) And then watching in horror as he's killed by his own side's arrows. Of course, that will be nothing compared to their horror when he's decrypted . . . But right now, Trem thinks that Wanda is KIA, and decryption isn't a threat any more.

But poor Antium is going to be SO conflicted afterwards, I mean his last living act was to kill (he thought) his new found goddess. But hey, look at the bright side! He'll get his arm back as a gift from Wanda, and all those nasty acid burns gone too!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Lamech » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:40 pm

Archaic wrote:Aside from the dragons...where are the rest of GK's troops? I can't really see any in the panels. Why do I have the feeling that, hidden amongst the Jetstone troops evacuating the Atrium are all the GK troops who survived their falls, ready to launch a surprise attack where they can't be targeted by the archers.
Tenth panel: look in the background. See all the yellow jetstones and the two red guys fighting them? I strongly suspect the reds are GKs.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Oberon » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:45 pm

Thanks for the New Year's Eve update!

Happy New Year, everyone!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Beeskee » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 pm

Reaction to the comic: I lol'd at Jack's lol.

Reaction to Wanda in ribbons: I don't know whether that is going to give me dreams or nightmares. I don't want to know. I'm going to drink until I forget it and hope for the best. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:10 pm

Jack, you beast. He's pulled this sort of trick before - to save Stanley during the Transylvito dust-up - but the fact that he himself misdirected Antium just makes it that much more awesome.

And the best part is that this probably wasn't even part of Parson's strategy, this is just what Jack does. He tricks and beguiles as easily as most people breathe.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby atalex » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:03 pm

I love how this page answers most of the complaints about Trem carrying "the idiot ball." He didn't realize what was happening because he couldn't see it clearly through the Shockamancy attack. Once the Shockamancy stopped, he instantly realized that GK was croaking some dragons but that others were somehow falling alive in spite of all the laws of Erfworld physics.He then immediately directed archers to target the Atrium and (I assume) gave orders to find and croak Wanda. Under the circumstances and given how perfectly Parson's tactic has been executed so far, I really don't see how he could have done any better.

I do wonder about Ossomer. Was his in panel 4 a sign that he was horrified about what happened and ashamed of what was coming (and of deceiving his father and brother)? Or was he speechless because he was just left completely out of the loop and he didn't know what the falling dragons meant either. I warn you, Rob, if you kill Ossomer without giving him a chance for any further development, I may be forced to write fanfic, and neither of us wants that. :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby fractal » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:13 pm

Tramennis, time to sue for peace as a vassal state... now. While you still have anything left to offer. "Ossomer, please contact your chief warlord. I wish to discuss our surrender terms."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Oberon » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:23 pm

atalex wrote:I love how this page answers most of the complaints about Trem carrying "the idiot ball."
He is certainly doing better, isn't he? At least there's no more "Why are other colors falling?" whiny ineffectiveness... Can't see due to caster flare? Have them halt. And he immediately grasped the implication of having the 'pliers on the ground, and had the archers loose.

Poor Ossomer-thing... I wonder if his orders are to attack Tram and/or Slately once things start developing?
Last edited by Oberon on Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Kyrt » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:26 pm

Oberon wrote:Poos Ossomer-thing... I wonder if his orders are to attack Tram and/or Slately once things start developing?


I don't think he can cross the zone boundary.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Masennus » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:52 pm

I love that Jack didn't break character to actually "lol" but was in fact simply starting to cast his The Cure scroll. It's these small moments of dramatic irony that take Erfworld from great to must-read.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby blablabla84 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:59 pm

Best New Year's gift ever !

Jack lol'd hard !
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Godsire » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:02 pm

Jack is so pimpin! He should be endruler of erfworld...

No but I do hope he will live for a long long time to come..

Great update!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Whispri » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:03 pm

Shocking realisation time: I have to think something nice about Jack now! The horror! Also: Happy New Year peoples!

atalex wrote:I love how this page answers most of the complaints about Trem carrying "the idiot ball." He didn't realize what was happening because he couldn't see it clearly through the Shockamancy attack. Once the Shockamancy stopped, he instantly realized that GK was croaking some dragons but that others were somehow falling alive in spite of all the laws of Erfworld physics.He then immediately directed archers to target the Atrium and (I assume) gave orders to find and croak Wanda. Under the circumstances and given how perfectly Parson's tactic has been executed so far, I really don't see how he could have done any better.

I do wonder about Ossomer. Was his in panel 4 a sign that he was horrified about what happened and ashamed of what was coming (and of deceiving his father and brother)? Or was he speechless because he was just left completely out of the loop and he didn't know what the falling dragons meant either. I warn you, Rob, if you kill Ossomer without giving him a chance for any further development, I may be forced to write fanfic, and neither of us wants that. :)

He chose to blind himself, no one made him do it. Despite that, he could see well enough to tell that non-yellow Dwagons were falling and yet... As for what else he could have done, his Father's "croak everything" plan still sounds like a fine one, it was probably their best chance of hitting Wanda. Frankly, even with the arrows hitting the courtyard, I'm not convinced he's finished playing into Parson's hands, how effective will those archers actually be?

Perhaps he's reacting to Wanda being incapacitated? It has been suggested that the Decrypted might collapse into dust if she fell, maybe he can feel the icy grip of death upon her?

Kyrt wrote:
Whispri wrote:He's far too slow on the uptake, it's too late.


He took a few seconds to realise what was happening. I'd call that pretty fast, especially given the lateral thinking that spawned the exploit.

About the only thing I'm not sure of is whether evacuating the Atrium was smart move....it removes JS troops form the arrow storm giving the archersa freer hand, and prevents new bodies from being around to be decrypted but more bodies may have helped them get Wanda quickler.

Attackwise, I'd imagine the archers can shoot as many different targets as they have arrows.


Hes committed them to attack the ground targets in the atrium. Does that mean airborne targets in the airspace are safe? They are in another zone... Probably not, now that I come to think about it...Tram himself was involved in a battle earlier this turn but its still a possibility. As it is, he'd possibly be wiser to saturate the area as much as he can to kill off as many decrypted as he can while he can. Ossomer and the archons can't hurt him....the decrypted can.

By the time he realised what was happening Wanda and company had hit the ground unmolested. Yes, now the plan has been carried out and Jetstone's fate is out of his hands he's flailing in roughly the right direction. But as I said, it's too late, Wanda's alive and in a moment she's going to shout "Angelic Hordes come forth!" or whatever it is she shouts and completely ruin Tremannis's day. Any high level Croakamancer would have been a terrible threat in her position.

On the subject of the Atrium evacuation, those archers weren't too effective against Wanda at the bridge. Sylvia was actually batting arrows out of the sky. On top of that, it looks to me like those Dwagons are croaking troops who are trying to run away, granting them easy pickings, while he's leaving Wanda and company time to organise (and get to their feet) before they hit the garrison's defenders. Are the arrow hails really worth it?

Unless the Archons start providing magic support for troops below them, I can't see any reason to attack the fliers while the Garrison fight is in doubt. Maybe to cover an attempted breakout...


Actually... Turns out I had a finished post with regards to Tremannis saved, it's a bit out of date, but it covers pretty much everything I've got to say about the guy, so I'll just post it in a spoiler block and leave it (and him) at that:
Spoiler: show
Kyrt wrote:Trams mistake was to try for a long term solution via a parley arranged by the King rather than a short term solution. Were he to win this battle, JS would still be in trouble. Once Parson was made CW, GKs plans were made quickly. A parley gave them time, and it put the king and CW on the tower. Parsons plan included killing most of his forces after all...so even wiping GK out wouldn't guarantee victory for JS.

Tram actually had very little to do with JS situation right now and whether he holds an idiot ball will be seen over the next few pages and will depend on how quickly he recognises what is happening and the steps taken to counter it.

Hes been told Parson is CW and that hes a gifted warlord who killed Ansom by violating a parley and used an unorthodox Trimancy link.

Nothing there to suggest the ability to defy Erfworld physics.

Trimancy links are powerful. Erfworlders know this. However, GK has two casters in the hex. Not three. And neither are linked. No reason to fear the impossible.

Tremannis's mistakes are legion. If they lose this battle, they lose everything. He's Chief Warlord and he's allowing Parson's battle plan to survive contact with the enemy. Unforgivable.

It's too late for him to recognise and counter the danger, Wanda's hit the floor. She lives and creates a fresh army or she perishes and Jetstone survives despite the best efforts of their Prat-in-Chief. Either way, damage done.

Then there's the fact that Tremannis has just wasted his Tower's spells, the only weapon at his disposal that can strike anywhere in the City, on non-Wanda units. Throw in some Foolamancy (using Scrolls if necessary) and Wanda and company could be moving out of range laughing for all he knows. Decrypted Yellows in tow, Jetstone's only chance to benefit from Garrison bonuses thoroughly wasted. All from dangers he's personally witnessed.

And as for defying Erfworld physics, Parson can enter the Magic Kingdom. Warlords aren't supposed to be able to do that.

If you confine yourself to thoughts of magic, think of scrolls. Spells that summon acid rain clouds, emulate the effects of a yellow Dwagon's attack or just cause rocks to materialise above her enemies heads could really allow Wanda to do serious damage. Think of buff spells, Wanda's already been through one quadrupled arrow storm today without taking a scratch, add in a few protection scrolls and what could touch her now the Tower's drained of spells? Think of Weirdomancy scrolls saying "Actually, boop you" to Erfworld's rules with regards to firing across Zones. Think of a sufficient quantity of Healing scrolls. Tremannis should be prepared for such trouble. He is not.

Kyrt wrote:Largely because he was going to fight one. He also had some time to prepare for the fight.

What use is his winning the battle if he still loses the war? Tram WANTS the parley because he NEEDS the parley. He knows GK can still attack....but hes overlooking it because he wants a parley. He let GK attack first and then destroyed the only elements GK had of performing any sort of attack off turn.

End result - GK would have to parley.

Trams mistake was in not foreseeing a way to bend a law of physics to allow off turn movement.

Tremmanis has had all the time in the World to prepare for battle. He failed to do so. Ansom did not in fact know if he was going to have to fight. Not even after his turn suddenly ended.

This is a Capital fight, Jetstone is dying as Tremannis flounders. They lose here? It's over, even if the King escapes he'd have no money and no army.

Why would Gobwin Knob have to parley? All they have to do is find a way of keeping Wanda alive. Lord Hamster can learn everything Ossomer knows about Spacerock's defences just by asking. He has full knowledge of his own sides capabilities, which is of course denied to Jetstone. He has Mathmancy backing him up. He can talk to Ossomer and ask how best to goad his brother into reaction 'x'. And Tremannis knows all this! Yet he didn't pause to think. Didn't think enough to show concern.

Tremannis worst mistake was quietly accepting promotion to a position that is simply beyond him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Wakky » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:12 am

Lamech wrote:
Archaic wrote:Aside from the dragons...where are the rest of GK's troops? I can't really see any in the panels. Why do I have the feeling that, hidden amongst the Jetstone troops evacuating the Atrium are all the GK troops who survived their falls, ready to launch a surprise attack where they can't be targeted by the archers.
Tenth panel: look in the background. See all the yellow jetstones and the two red guys fighting them? I strongly suspect the reds are GKs.


Not so fast, Lamech! Those "red guys" might just be Jetstone troops with a veil cast on them. I wouldn't put it past Jack to pull a dirty trick like that. ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 50

Postby Dr Pepper » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:23 am

Oh Jack, you do enjoy your work!

It's about to get awesome in the Atrium.

But not for Ossamer. I don't think he can turn. But the continued violation of chivalry might drive him to self disbandment.
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