Book 2 – Text Updates 038

[Rizban]

Well, the G-String theory at least explains why Charlie can pick up on anyone trying to contact him just by them thinking about him hard enough... That part of that older text update always bugged me a bit.

The thing I'm wondering now is, how were the Thinkamancers planning on pointing Parson in Charlie's direction? Why Stanley, of all people? (This goes for the other Perfect Warlord factions too.) Were they just waiting for someone who could and would pay for the spell? It seems more likely that they deliberately dropped it in Stanley's lap, with a high price to keep him from getting suspicious.

The only thing I can really think of is that he runs Wanda's side, and she's the only higher-up conspirator who's not part of the MK, that we know of. That and he probably (see above) hates Charlie, and *maybe* has history with him, as many have speculated.

Though you know? I'm now starting to wonder if the Don is at least at the fringes of this conspiracy. His actions lately do not seem in character with his shrewd nature, unless he's playing a very deep game.

Why Stanley? Because he was the only valid option at the time. He hates Charlie and he was the only other person attuned to a Tool. If you're trying to take down someone attuned to a Tool, you pretty much have to use someone else also attuned. Using a side without a Tool would just be silly to attempt.

Not to mention that having everyone teamed up against Stanley at the moment gave him the incentive to buy the spell in the first place. He would never have bought it if he wasn't desperate. Being in a no-win situation also tested Parson to prove that the spell worked as intended and that he is the perfect warlord. After that, it's just a matter of time before Charlie manages to tick off GK enough to have them attack him directly.

[Rizban]

Well, the G-String theory at least explains why Charlie can pick up on anyone trying to contact him just by them thinking about him hard enough... That part of that older text update always bugged me a bit.

The thing I'm wondering now is, how were the Thinkamancers planning on pointing Parson in Charlie's direction? Why Stanley, of all people? (This goes for the other Perfect Warlord factions too.) Were they just waiting for someone who could and would pay for the spell? It seems more likely that they deliberately dropped it in Stanley's lap, with a high price to keep him from getting suspicious.

The only thing I can really think of is that he runs Wanda's side, and she's the only higher-up conspirator who's not part of the MK, that we know of. That and he probably (see above) hates Charlie, and *maybe* has history with him, as many have speculated.

Though you know? I'm now starting to wonder if the Don is at least at the fringes of this conspiracy. His actions lately do not seem in character with his shrewd nature, unless he's playing a very deep game.

Why Stanley? Because he was the only valid option at the time. He hates Charlie and he was the only other person attuned to a Tool. If you're trying to take down someone attuned to a Tool, you pretty much have to use someone else also attuned. Using a side without a Tool would just be silly to attempt.

Not to mention that having everyone teamed up against Stanley at the moment gave him the incentive to buy the spell in the first place. He would never have bought it if he wasn't desperate. Being in a no-win situation also tested Parson to prove that the spell worked as intended and that he is the perfect warlord. After that, it's just a matter of time before Charlie manages to tick off GK enough to have them attack him directly.

Another thought I just had. How aware of all this Thinkamancy stuff are natural Thinkamancers like the Archons? I'm guessing not very - they do everything by instinct.

That's an excellent question!

And it's one of those places where I'd say that the logical answer is that Archons are aware of this. I'd also presume Charlie is, too. Which is why Maggie is extra-careful.

Of course Charlie is aware of the strings. That's how he's got so much control. However, the coded notches in the G-Strings is something devised by the GMTTA and purposefully not shared with Charlie or discussed via Thinkamancy. It's their way of communicating without Charlie being able to listen in on their discussions.

-Engineer Jitterati's downfall by persuading their natural allies to change sides through currently unknown means.

That alone (making natural allies turn against their own sides) is quite scary if you ask me.

True but we don't know how he did it. He may have simply offered them a big bag of gems and some improvement in their status. (Their own city/a ally who won't send them to fight much).

How difficult is that to do? I mean really?

It seems like you show up with a strong force and say, "Hey, we'll give you more than you're current ally is giving you, including this one thing you really want. If you don't accept, we'll wipe all of you out instead." You don't even really need to do that. Natural allies are still lead by their chief, so you just have to sway one person. With a good offer and a Suggestion spell (probably pretty easy when you have the Arkendish), you've swayed them over to your side entirely.

[Althernai]

It seems like you show up with a strong force and say, "Hey, we'll give you more than you're current ally is giving you, including this one thing you really want. If you don't accept, we'll wipe all of you out instead." You don't even really need to do that. Natural allies are still lead by their chief, so you just have to sway one person. With a good offer and a Suggestion spell (probably pretty easy when you have the Arkendish), you've swayed them over to your side entirely.

It's not that easy:

Lord Hamster also asked more than one question about making alliance and breaking alliance. Vurp told him that the Chief or Chiefs make such decisions. Such decisions are serious. Changing such decisions is also serious. A tribe prefers to stay with their allied side for good, if the side allows it.

They won't change allegiance simply because you offered them more money and any threat has to be made by somebody who can overwhelm the side they're currently allied with. Charlie is doing something unnatural to them.

[Rizban]

It seems like you show up with a strong force and say, "Hey, we'll give you more than you're current ally is giving you, including this one thing you really want. If you don't accept, we'll wipe all of you out instead." You don't even really need to do that. Natural allies are still lead by their chief, so you just have to sway one person. With a good offer and a Suggestion spell (probably pretty easy when you have the Arkendish), you've swayed them over to your side entirely.

It's not that easy:

Lord Hamster also asked more than one question about making alliance and breaking alliance. Vurp told him that the Chief or Chiefs make such decisions. Such decisions are serious. Changing such decisions is also serious. A tribe prefers to stay with their allied side for good, if the side allows it.

They won't change allegiance simply because you offered them more money and any threat has to be made by somebody who can overwhelm the side they're currently allied with. Charlie is doing something unnatural to them.

Hence why I also offered the Suggestion on the tribe's Chief alternative.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but if all Thinkamancers have an alliance against Charlie then that means either (or even both!) of the following two possibilities:

1) Charlie is a renegade Thinkamancer and the arkendish amplifies his ability to a great degree.
2) The Arkendish can act as a Thinkamancer to create a mindlink. If Charlie is also some sort of caster, then he only needs another caster to create a tri-link.

The Kingworld spell required at least a bi-link to cast, maybe even a tri-link. If all of the Thinkamancers in the MK considers Charlie an enemy, then he's unlikely to be able to hire one so the only option of creating a link is one of the two choices above.

That's one powerful ability of the Arkendish if it is indeed option 2.

Taken in with Charlie's stated preference for hiring Turnamancers (according to an Archon, ostensibly to boost Archon production), a bi-link/tri-link could explain how he can affect how natural units popped in other zones, the effects of which are seen both at GK (lack of gobwins) and at FAQ (unusual number of natural dragons that Stanley encountered along the way, allowing him to sack the city). It can also explain how the mountain giants turned on their side to ally with Jillian. I doubt a single Turnamancer can manage these effects, but a bi-link or tri-link would help a lot.

Except that dwagons aren't a natural side, just like the rams that the bats fed on in that one text update aren't a natural side. They're effectively animals, really powerful animals but still animals. Tamed creatures join your side and you pay their upkeep. Dwagons can also be popped in a city with the Arkenhammer.

Natural allies are not tamed or popped by their allied side, nor does their allied side pay for their upkeep beyond an agreement to pop rations or other stipulations on their alliance agreement.

Because dwagons are not a natural side that can accept shmuckers or otherwise be allied, it seems highly unlikely that Charlie could have somehow manipulated the dwagons with a turnamancer. This becomes even more unlikely when you remember that a caster can only target units in their own hex (thinkagrams being the only known exception) and that unled stacks, i.e. wild dwagons, automatically attack enemy units in their hex. It would be insanely difficult to get a turnamancer into a hex with wild dwagons long enough to speed up their "production" without the dwagons killing the mancer, not to mention actually finding a turnamancer willing to risk that danger.

[fractal]

Because dwagons are not a natural side that can accept shmuckers or otherwise be allied, it seems highly unlikely that Charlie could have somehow manipulated the dwagons with a turnamancer. This becomes even more unlikely when you remember that a caster can only target units in their own hex (thinkagrams being the only known exception) and that unled stacks, i.e. wild dwagons, automatically attack enemy units in their hex. It would be insanely difficult to get a turnamancer into a hex with wild dwagons long enough to speed up their "production" without the dwagons killing the mancer, not to mention actually finding a turnamancer willing to risk that danger.

However, it is quite possible that Charlie could have linked with a Luckamancer (and a Lookamancer?) to influence the probability of dwagons popping in the various hexes on Stanley's route.

[Rizban]

Because dwagons are not a natural side that can accept shmuckers or otherwise be allied, it seems highly unlikely that Charlie could have somehow manipulated the dwagons with a turnamancer. This becomes even more unlikely when you remember that a caster can only target units in their own hex (thinkagrams being the only known exception) and that unled stacks, i.e. wild dwagons, automatically attack enemy units in their hex. It would be insanely difficult to get a turnamancer into a hex with wild dwagons long enough to speed up their "production" without the dwagons killing the mancer, not to mention actually finding a turnamancer willing to risk that danger.

However, it is quite possible that Charlie could have linked with a Luckamancer (and a Lookamancer?) to influence the probability of dwagons popping in the various hexes on Stanley's route.

Again dealing with the "caster in hex gets autoattacked off turn when dwagon pops" problem that results in either the death of the dwagon or the death of the caster.

[Althernai]

Hence why I also offered the Suggestion on the tribe's Chief alternative.

It's possible, but I think it would have to go beyond that. Suggestion is not mind control; it can't make somebody do something they're strongly opposed to doing. He probably has some souped up version using the Arkendish or he's doing something else altogether.

Again dealing with the "caster in hex gets autoattacked off turn when dwagon pops" problem that results in either the death of the dwagon or the death of the caster.

The caster couldn't possibly be in the hex because Stanley kept finding dragons in different hexes and the caster could not follow him off-turn. That said, I don't see why the caster would have to be in the hex to begin with -- Charlie has shown that he can act at a distance and for all we know the spell could be something like "Increase the probability of finding a dragon in the mountains".

[Earendil]

Who is Charlie after all ? We never saw him and no one in Erfworld seems to have seen him. Maggie refers to him as "it" - is Charlie the Dish ? Maybe the dish fused with some Erfworld inhabitant ? Or maybe it's some kind of AI, a robot ?

More important - what does Charlie want in all this ? I find it telling that many of the smart people in Erfworld, including Maggie, said that "no one knows what he wants". Think about it : The guy has access to almost all the information in Erfworld and has a huge (possibly unlimited) army of overpowered "angels". If this guy would want to conquer Erf - he could probably do it. See the Haggar situation. Wealth ? Come on.

My theory (and I'm sure it's not original) - Charlie is something between a local DM or God. Who knows, maybe he is like Parsons, someone from the "Earth" dimension - see the jokes and references he makes when communicating with Parsons. Or Parsons telling him " TPK. GG" - Parsons hardly uses gaming terms with other erfworlders without needing to explain. It might be that such strong thinkamancy has direct access to his mind and references but that would be too simple.

His purpose ? To keep the war going and Erf rolling. Erf is his playground, the inhabitants are his puppets and he pulls the (G)strings. His main objective is probably to "enjoy" the campaign. To have fun playing a wargame.

The local casters, capable of self awareness, are scared of Charlie. Especially Thinkamancers who feel directly threatened. But also Hippiemancers who realize that Charlie is the one preventing any attempt of peace. There is a conspiracy among the casters to - Wanda, Sizemore are pawns in this. A conspiracy to overthrow an evil god.

They realized quick that they can't do much from the inside they are subjected to the rules that Charlie created - they needed someone from the outside - someone capable of breaking the rules - hence the SPW spell. If Charlie is defeated then maybe there could be peace in Erfworld. Remember the Janis/Sizemore talk - "He broke rules, people, ideas. If he breaks enough things there may be peace in Erfworld after all"

The fun part is that Charlie probably is probably aware of that conspiracy. I could bet that he actually supported the SPW spell, out of boredom. He got bored in his playground and wanted a real gaming partner - and he sees Parsons as such.

Charlie is not the antagonist to Parsons - Parsons is the antagonist that protagonist Charlie brought to Erf to spice things up.

Just see how Charlie uses all those "deus ex" moves to counter the carefully designed, brilliant strategies that Parsons tried. Including the turnamancy trick. I fully suspect that Charlie will do something similar to counter the current attack on the Jetsones. He won't let Parsons win - he is the Game master after all

[justamessenger]

So...

Intuition is a form of Predicatamancy that can be pooled, manipulated, etc. It seems to me that perhaps Charlie, Erf's most powerful whatever-it-is, has used this unknown power to push his own agenda. And, perhaps, even that of Parson initially at TBfGK.

I am really intrigued by the notion of intuition being manipulated, and hope we learn more about it in the future!

As to Charlie, what, exactly, do we know? http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png
(sorry, don't know how to embed the link in text, lol)

"So what was Charlie like? None of them had ever physically seen him. He had a special personal guard of Archons who lived with him in the main tower, but those were rarely seen either. All contact with Charlie was by Thinkamancy via the Arkendish, which was apparently a rush for them when it happened. None of them knew where Charlie had come from, or how he had acquired an Arkentool. All living Charlescomm units had popped during his rule. Charlie did not permit questions about himself."

Charlie only communicates via Thinkamancy, nobody has seen Charlie, and Maggie refers to Charlie as "it." What does it mean?

The first notion is that Charlie is the Arkendish, somehow become self aware, a la Skynet (Terminator) or WOPR (WarGames). This is possible, but we have nothing to show that a Tool has this ability from what we have seen thus far.

The second thing that popped into my head is the Wizard of Oz. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" Someone who is quite clever, inventive and makes the best use of what resources he has, but is, in and of himself, nothing terribly noteworthy. This version uses the 'Dish like Oz used his props and magic tricks, to promote his legend of superiority, omniscience and infallibility; while, in reality, he is weak and afraid. In the Oz books, Oz was from Nebraska, and, like Dorothy (or Parson), was not a native.

Of course, the third and most likely option, given what we know, is that Charlie is just another Erfworlder who managed to stumble across the 'Dish and become attuned to it...

The last two options do not really explain away the 'it' factor. However, given that nobody, including, presumably, the Thinkamancers, has seen Charlie, the simplest explanation may be that 'it' is in reality a 'he' or 'she.' The whole Occam's Razor approach...which, admittedly, does occasionally seem to be inapplicable to Erf...

In any event, this update has certainly raised far more questions and provides us with a wonderful wealth of ideas to explore!

Thanks for the intellectual fodder, Rob! And thanks, Xin, for the awesome artwork, as always!

[GaryThunder]

Assuming we can take anything Charlie says at face value, Charlie seems to be actively frightened of Parson and his capabilities. Possibly also angry. Certainly very concerned about the huge and growing threat he represents. And unless it was discussed by Thinkagram, I'm not sure how Charlie would know about something discussed only in the Magic Kingdom...

...hmm. Maybe through the G-strings, Charlie can tap in on any link that he can sense? That would explain how he knew how the volcano trick worked, and it would explain his knowledge about SPW.

[Native Jovian]

Maggie refers to Charlie as "it." What does it mean?

That was the odd sentence structure she was using. She was talking about the reason why she was coding messages and such. "it" referred to "the reason", which is perfectly normal. I don't think that it implies anything about Charlie himself. Maggie does call Charlie "him" on other occasions.

[Radagast]

...hmm. Maybe through the G-strings, Charlie can tap in on any link that he can sense? That would explain how he knew how the volcano trick worked, and it would explain his knowledge about SPW.

Charlie didn't know how the volcano trick worked at first - he actually asked Parson, and spent a calculation to see if it was worth the deal to find out. If he already knew the answer, the chances of the deal being worth it would have been 0%.

[justamessenger]

Maggie refers to Charlie as "it." What does it mean?

That was the odd sentence structure she was using. She was talking about the reason why she was coding messages and such. "it" referred to "the reason", which is perfectly normal. I don't think that it implies anything about Charlie himself. Maggie does call Charlie "him" on other occasions.

That is, of course, the most straightforward explanation, lol. Much less enjoyable, though, from the standpoint of having fodder for debate.

[Lor]

...oh, wait. I just reread it, and thoughout, Maggie calls him "it" . Presumably, if he were a thinkamancer, Maggie would know and call him "he" (or "she").

Fantastic pickup. Charlie is known to have a male voice, so "it" is either an insult, or a clue that Maggie knows something...

Edit: Hang on a second:
Would that make sense as: That reason called himself, "Charlie." ..?
Maybe it's nothing at all, just grammar.

Yep, it's just grammar. And it's the narrator calling him "it", not Maggie (the PoV is omniscient third person, not first person). But that won't stop the tin foil hats.

I suppose I'll wade into that debate I don't like to think it is tin-foil-hatty; more of a colander, but I do get hatty near the end. Just a warning. Here we go.

I've wondered why archons and Charlie appear to be linked. If it is the narrator speaking as Maggie and not the narrator showing its (heh) own bias, then we have a couple of possibilities -- sorted in order of increasing tin:

• The thinkamancers just don't like Charlie
• Charlie is the dish
• Charlie is the dish after dominating the will of some poor attuner (whether from Earth or not)
• Archons can be popped by other sides, and for some reason appear most often in threes (yes, I get the meta-reason why). Suppose a group of 3 archons were to stumble upon a titanic artifact, which found enough of itself in their latent thinkamancy to instantly link them and itself into a mesh that is either a 3-way link attuned, or a 4-way link with the dish as the 4th.

And a second series of related thoughts:

I don't think this is a unique thought, but I use the phrase 'found enough of itself' since the tools appear to reveal their full power to those who closely resemble themselves. From all appearances,

• Stanley was an uncomplicated stabber who hit problems until they went away
• I think we can agree that Wanda is indeed quite twisted (delightfully or evilly as you will)
• Charlie is so enamored of intrigue and shadow-games that he has never popped support staff of his own (no warlords or other administrators (I almost typed 'administwators')) and I think likely no farms.

Whether these traits are the tool or what attracted the tool to them is the classic chicken-and-egg.

Okay, a third thought that I'm almost sure has been thought of: Perhaps Charlie's excellent reputation in the MK for hiring casters is nothing of the sort, and more that refusing causes him to look into why -- thus the MK is blackmailed into serving.

Fourth, calling Charlie 'it' out loud would be to place that thought into the G-string of an uninitiated (and thus defenseless) lout, where it would hang out and be instantly recognizable to Charlie. Such cannot be allowed. The only safe place for the truth is among the elders.

[Dr Pepper]

I'm guessing that there is a "Duty to Erf" stat, whose strength is affected by how intimately one experiences the world as a whole.

[Dr Pepper]

When I first encountered the Grandiocosmic String thing I was like "awww feck; I'm gonna have to go in the reactions thread and play all grumpy again against this string theory business" but then I realized the purpose of that being there. I'm not pissed off anymore, and yeah, that's quite some mileage obtained from one pun! Nice!

Hey grump away-- it's why we love you so much. Tou're our big grumpy teddygwiffon.

[Oberon]

I find this extremely interesting. There's another conspiracy in the MK. And this one is basically only in opposition to Charlie. But what's odd about that, is Maggie has never really related Charlie as a villain to Parson. A rival, sure, and scary, definitely- but she's never said "He's evil and must be stopped!"

Is that pragmatism, since a non-thinkamancer's mind could be read, or something else? And is it important enough to the thinkamancers that they'll break the laws of the MK? Maggie seems to think so.. but why?

I also would like to explore this situation. Here we have Charlie, an attuned Tool owner, being shown to be at odds with a coalition of casters of the very discipline that Charlie's Tool gives him a masterful command of. The same coalition which is supporting Parson in his role as the CWL of the Toolist Side. While also being regarded as a very good employer of MK casters. Very odd indeed!

So now we know that foolamancers see the world as layers of lies and the thinkamancers see the world as a series of strings and subtle nuances, did we have an update where wanda or sizemore describe their viewpoints through the glass of their disciplines?

Ugh. This may be why Sizemore has his somewhat fatalistic personality. If your entire life is a reflection of your disipline, and that discipline is primarily focused on shit, well damn it!

That reason was not part of the close-knit fraternity of Thinkamancers, but it knew their secrets and more. That reason had the whole world by its G-Strings.
That reason called itself, "Charlie."

Revealed facts: Charlie knows the "secrets" of the thinkamancers. But it seems that claiming that his power there "ha[s] the whole world by its G-Strings" is a rather limited scope statement, as the only persons with "G-Strings" are thinkamancers.

But a wholly interesting update, with vast amounts of inspection!

Do thinkamancers oppose Charlie? If so, then why? He is the attuned owner of a tool of the titans! This should position him as an authoritative source of thinkamancy philosophy.

It seams that most people reading the update are concluding that the temple thinkamancers are anti-Charlie. All I see is that maggie believes GMtTA will keep a coded message private.

It appears to me to be a much broader concern than the simple desire to keep a message private.

One thing that has always bothered me is that Stanley's backstory suggests that he was at one point a capable leader. Now, he's dumb as a post.

I have always assumed that this a a manifestation of the Peter Principle.

A full discussion the the "security through obscurity" thinkamancer community is pending interested applicants.

[Lor]

@Oberon

Revealed facts: Charlie knows the "secrets" of the thinkamancers. But it seems that claiming that his power there "ha[s] the whole world by its G-Strings" is a rather limited scope statement, as the only persons with "G-Strings" are thinkamancers.

I think you may have overlooked something.

From Text Update 038, paragraph 10 (In particular the last sentence)
Only Thinkamancers even knew they existed. A Thinkamancer could feel out the G-Strings of the world, and vibrate upon them by plucking. That was how a Thinkagram was sent, and so much else. Each unit had its own individual G-String, which had many uses.

[Earendil]

I'm guessing that there is a "Duty to Erf" stat, whose strength is affected by how intimately one experiences the world as a whole.

Something like the "Zeroth law" of robots. Something that allows Wanda to betray FAQ, Maggie to "offer suggestions" to her boss. Something that allows Thinkamancers to hide things from their chiefs.
Remember when Maggie called Stanley "mad" because he named Ansom Chief warlord ? As if the whole Thinkamancer plan of having Parson lead the war against Charlie was ruined by that decision.

Something that allows the group of casters on MK to protect Parsons and send him back when he went through the gate. In complete secrecy ("note when the Red Mage says "It's Sizem..." and Sagan, one of the GMWTA quiets him - as if some invisible spy was watching/listening.

Also - note how quick the GMWTA come to help break the link back then, even refusing the money from Janis. Why ? Solidarity with Maggie ?

Then Wanda that says to Parson "You did not wish for this world, Parson Gotti. It wished for you."

Just like his TV counterpart, noone has ever seen Charlie. Including the Archons. And noone actually knows what he wants for real. If he wanted money he could simply conquer the whole world for that.

Maybe the "real" war is not between GK and Jetstone. It's a war between the Casters and Charlie. A war for the freedom of Erfworld.

[BLANDCorporatio]

When I first encountered the Grandiocosmic String thing I was like "awww feck; I'm gonna have to go in the reactions thread and play all grumpy again against this string theory business" but then I realized the purpose of that being there. I'm not pissed off anymore, and yeah, that's quite some mileage obtained from one pun! Nice!

Hey grump away-- it's why we love you so much. Tou're our big grumpy teddygwiffon.

Heh, I'll need to try and draw or construct that creature at some point while doing animations.

Anyways, string theory.

It's a bit of a pity these days that the goal of science seems to be To Blow Your Mind rather than figure out how stuff works. Blaming string theory for this is probably unfair, but empty theorizing with no real desire to connect it to experiment seems to nudge people in that direction. And I wonder how much of that leaks into the pop-sci documentaries of today. Jesus Christ they are atrocious. For science, Michio Kaku is the most dangerous man alive. And there was also that documentary by some dude who tried to explain Feynman's QED by teabagging viewers with Feynman Diagrams. Atrocious. Especially when perfectly sensible, informative, clear exposes exist- by Feynman no less.

The irony in all of this is that the most clearheaded (yet very very dry, alas) presentations of physics widely available today are Leonard Susskind's physics courses at Stanford (all available on youtube). Leonard Susskind, the father of String Theory himself. He's a bit overeager to calculate and often seems to forget he's doing physics, but with patience you realize what he's on about, and he's not a bad teacher.

A full discussion the the "security through obscurity" thinkamancer community is pending interested applicants.

I wonder if security by obscurity is a fair assessment. After all, Maggie did code her message.

It's not that Thinkamancers don't also rely on (most) others not knowing this G-String business, it's that "security by obscurity" seems, to me, to have taken a pejorative meaning of "relying only on secrecy to keep a piece of information or system secure".