Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby regisminae » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:34 am

Also, per Janis' soliloquoy, The Great Minds Who Think Alike were in on the conspiracy to bring Parson to Erf in the first place.

Now, Janis maintains to herself that the Thinkamancers didn't really know why the plan was hatched, but, based on this update, it seems to suit their purposes to let other think that they only think that they know what they may actually completely understand.
regisminae
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby happyturtle » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:40 am

Jamus wrote:Yay Zelda.

I find this extremely interesting. There's another conspiracy in the MK. And this one is basically only in opposition to Charlie. But what's odd about that, is Maggie has never really related Charlie as a villain to Parson. A rival, sure, and scary, definitely- but she's never said "He's evil and must be stopped!"

Is that pragmatism, since a non-thinkamancer's mind could be read, or something else? And is it important enough to the thinkamancers that they'll break the laws of the MK? Maggie seems to think so.. but why?


I was reminded of this page, where Maggie still knows Parson very little, but tries very hard to warn him away from Charlie.
User avatar
happyturtle
YOTD Supporter!
YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby fractal » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:41 am

regisminae wrote:Also, per Janis' soliloquoy, The Great Minds Who Think Alike were in on the conspiracy to bring Parson to Erf in the first place.

Now, Janis maintains to herself that the Thinkamancers didn't really know why the plan was hatched, but, based on this update, it seems to suit their purposes to let other think that they only think that they know what they may actually completely understand.

Or else they had their own reasons, maybe even meddling in the spell? Janice wants to end war, the Thinkamancers want to end Charlie. Summoning Parson may have been designed to do both.
fractal
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:46 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby fjolnir » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:43 am

The more we learn about the other magicians the more I think that Janis was told what she needed to know to get others to work on the SPW spell but is in reality marginalized and hedged out of the execution of it...


I honestly think that Charlie attuned then splashed into the pool fairly hard, if he was already a small fish in the pond I don't think the GMTTA would react in the same way to his presence in their domain, which is why I tend to think that Charlie was not a thinkamancer, and probably not even a caster pre-attuning
User avatar
fjolnir
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:40 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby gameboy1234 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:45 am

OK, second page, time for weird theories:


Observation: Thinkmancers are hiding a secret about how Erfworld works.

Observation: Banhammer used to hold discussions about the nature of Erfworld magic.

Observation: Stanley's luck encountering dwagons en route to conquer Faq seems likely to be related to Charlie.


Conclusion: Banhammer was getting close to learning something important and Charlie rubbed him out.
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

Avatar hoarked from PS238.
User avatar
gameboy1234
YOTD Supporter!
YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:04 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Hidden Sanity » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:20 am

Welp... I don't have anything to add on the tink-a-mancer mix-and-match, the one's I spotted have been named.

But I do fell the need to say: "Zelda! Form a link!"
Hidden Sanity
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:27 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby kwotski » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:22 am

gameboy1234 wrote:
ftl wrote:...oh, wait. I just reread it, and thoughout, Maggie calls him "it" . Presumably, if he were a thinkamancer, Maggie would know and call him "he" (or "she").



Yeah, I noticed that too. I didn't favor this theory, but I wonder if the folks who were speculating that Charlie was really the 'Dish are right? An Arkentool would certainly qualify as an "it."


Maybe a case of "In Charlescomm ... Arkendish attunes to you"? ;-)

The GMWTA are beautifully named, are they not? I wonder if there is a counter conspiracy of Fools Who Seldom Differ?
kwotski
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Lamech » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:23 am

Hmm... The hippies thought Parson was supposed to be the ultimate hippimancer and end war. The thinkamancers think that Parson is some sort of charlie seeking missle.
But the do the hippimancers know that what the thinkamancers have been told? Janice "knows" that the thinkamancers have been decieved. And Wanda thinks Parson is some big bad instrument of fate.
The fact that the hippimancers seem to "know" that the thinkamancers are confused seems to imply that the hippimancers are more likely to be in the loop than the thinkamancers. Or at least that thinkamancers are being played. But it seems more likely to me that Wanda, the hippies and the thinks are being played.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby suryasm » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:54 am

Lamech wrote:The fact that the hippimancers seem to "know" that the thinkamancers are confused seems to imply that the hippimancers are more likely to be in the loop than the thinkamancers. Or at least that thinkamancers are being played. But it seems more likely to me that Wanda, the hippies and the thinks are being played.


Or maybe what we are seeing is the trope "Thirty Xanatos Pileup" in action.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... atosPileup
Every faction of caster involved in creating the summoning spell had their own agenda, and put their own tweak on the spell. Every faction (including Charlie) did their best to influence Parson when he came through. And none of them made allowances for Stanley the Tool, the ultimate Spanner in the Works, to start shouting random crap at Wanda while she was casting.

As a result of which, all of them may have certain expectations of Parson... and it will be interesting to see exactly which of those expectations are likely to be fulfilled.
suryasm
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:38 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Ninjaguineapig » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:05 am

Yeah, there are a lot of people involved in Parson's coming to Erfworld and what he does. We've got Janice+Marie (who think they're on top, but don't know how much the Thinkamancers know), the Thinkamancers (who are keeping secrets from everyone, and have a bone to pick with Charlie), Charlie (who wants the greatest warlord ever to walk the face of Erf on his side, but will settle for him dead), Wanda (who is currently the most powerful unit in the area, and who follows only Fate (but is being played)), and Stanley (who has no idea what's going on at all, and is kinda dumb, but is the one with the most power over Parson).
Ninjaguineapig
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:02 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby regisminae » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:14 am

You know, one part of this update had been bothering me: "Gravicosmic".

Now, maybe Rob was just looking for something that sounded sufficiently obtuse so that we would accept the abbreviation, with both its musical and erm, other connotations, but why specifically those words, pertaining to aspects of Science that to this point had never been pertinent to Erf (does Erf have a solar system or a cosmos? Is Erf flat? Is Erf even an orientable manifold? Who knows!)

And then, after suddenly recalling a pair of things which acquaintances of mine had referenced in the last 24 hours (the autotuned Carl Sagan "We are all connected"/"Symphony of Space" thing and then a cross-disciplinary discussion between deGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins), it struck me. G-strings are cosmic, but not as Hippiemancy:

The Thinkamancers have isolated the Erf version of string theory.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Xanatos-pileup dissection -
regisminae
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby fractal » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:33 am

Ninjaguineapig wrote:Yeah, there are a lot of people involved in Parson's coming to Erfworld and what he does. We've got Janice+Marie (who think they're on top, but don't know how much the Thinkamancers know), the Thinkamancers (who are keeping secrets from everyone, and have a bone to pick with Charlie), Charlie (who wants the greatest warlord ever to walk the face of Erf on his side, but will settle for him dead), Wanda (who is currently the most powerful unit in the area, and who follows only Fate (but is being played)), and Stanley (who has no idea what's going on at all, and is kinda dumb, but is the one with the most power over Parson).

If Charlie is the Arkendish (or heavily influenced by it), perhaps Wanda and Stanley are also influenced by their Tools? We should remember that Rob has hinted at sentience for the Arkenhammer. If so, I can't imagine Wanda resisting the effect of the Arkenpliers, but I can picture Stanley eventually growing as a person and throwing off the suggestions of the Arkenhammer. If the Arkentools are behind the wars of Erf, the entire world may depend on Stanley.

That's kind of a scary thought.
fractal
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:46 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Davre » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:36 am

First: Tremendously awesome text update. I wish this was a fat book I could curl up with.

Second:

regisminae wrote:You know, one part of this update had been bothering me: "Gravicosmic".


Actually, it was Grandiocosmic although you'll have to decide for yourself whether that affects your idea or not.
Davre
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:38 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Althernai » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:49 am

regisminae wrote:You know, one part of this update had been bothering me: "Gravicosmic".

The word in the update is actually "Grandiocosmic" and I suspect the only reason it was used was for the sake of the abbreviation.
The Thinkamancers have isolated the Erf version of string theory.

Sort of. The strings in string theory are what the entire universe is made of at the most fundamental level (if it is correct). The strings Maggie is talking about are conduits for magic. It's not entirely the same thing, although it could be if the Thinkamancers interpret everything as a kind of magic.

More generally, the attitude of the various casters towards both Parson and Erfworld reminds me of the six blind men and the elephant -- they all have pieces of the truth, but they cannot put it together.
Althernai
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:08 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:33 am

It seams that most people reading the update are concluding that the temple thinkamancers are anti-Charlie. All I see is that maggie believes GMtTA will keep a coded message private.

The thinkamancers in general may respond to Charlie and the arkendish the same way people in a real world office would respond to someone who had special vision that could see through fabric. Secretaries would duck behind desks and cubical walls to protect their modesty. That would not indicate any hatred for or conspiracy against the person with extra-vision. People in corporate culture are uncomfortable about things that are under the g-string.
pSycHOtic chICkeN
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:25 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby oslecamo2 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:37 am

gameboy1234 wrote:Conclusion: Banhammer was getting close to learning something important and Charlie rubbed him out.

Hmm, really like this theory. Have a cookie!

Althernai wrote:
regisminae wrote:You know, one part of this update had been bothering me: "Gravicosmic".

The word in the update is actually "Grandiocosmic" and I suspect the only reason it was used was for the sake of the abbreviation.
The Thinkamancers have isolated the Erf version of string theory.

Sort of. The strings in string theory are what the entire universe is made of at the most fundamental level (if it is correct). The strings Maggie is talking about are conduits for magic. It's not entirely the same thing, although it could be if the Thinkamancers interpret everything as a kind of magic.

Wich begs the question, isn't kinda treason for all thinkmancers to don't tell such kind of details to their rulers and warlords? I would surely love to be able to feel what my subordinates feel.

Also notice that in our world, the string theory it's just that, a theory that doesn't really work right now, while in Erfworld it seems to be a tested and true fact. That the thinkmancers greedily keep for themselves.

Althernai wrote:More generally, the attitude of the various casters towards both Parson and Erfworld reminds me of the six blind men and the elephant -- they all have pieces of the truth, but they cannot put it together.


It doesn't help much if they don't tell each other what pieces they have. Everybody seems to be keeping their own secrets.
oslecamo2
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:37 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby atalex » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:41 am

gameboy1234 wrote:OK, second page, time for weird theories:


Observation: Thinkmancers are hiding a secret about how Erfworld works.

Observation: Banhammer used to hold discussions about the nature of Erfworld magic.

Observation: Stanley's luck encountering dwagons en route to conquer Faq seems likely to be related to Charlie.


Conclusion: Banhammer was getting close to learning something important and Charlie rubbed him out.


I have actually thought for some time that Charlie was involved in either the fall of Faq, the fall of Saline IV, or both. The following facts seem relatively clear:

1. Wanda invites Stanley to sack Faq. (Wanda and Stanley's stories match up here.)

2. Stanley claims that he told Saline he was going to hunt dragons but not that he was going to conquer a city no one knew existed. (Only Stanley's word to the twoll for this, but since he was volunteering the information, it seems improbable that he'd lie.)

3. Stanley's assault would have failed due to faulty intel from Wanda except that he "luckily" found a lot of extra dwagons on the way to Faq. Instead, he takes the city, gaining Wanda and Jack in the bargain, but Marie ends up in the MK. (Again, Wanda's story matches Stanley's, although Stanley doesn't know Wanda planned to betray him. There is also some personal connection between Marie and Wanda of an indeterminate nature.)

4. While Stanley is gone, the hobgobwins break alliance with Saline and croak him. Upon his return, Stanley retakes Gobwin Knob and reestablishes alliance with the hobgobwins. (Now, no one with first hand knowledge has commented on this, except that the hobgobwins are clearly hiding something. Ansom and the other royals assumed that Stanley arranged the death of Saline, but I don't think there's actually any textual evidence for it, just assumptions based on the timing.)

5. Wanda tells Parson that Stanley hates Charlie and will never consider allying with him, but, again to the best of my recollection, Stanley himself has never spoken of Charlie.

6. After the fall of Faq and the ascension of Stanley, the RCC is founded to destroy him. At some point during all this, Marie persuades Janis to engineer the Summon Perfect Warlord spell but secretly design it to summon a warlord capable of ending war in Erfworld. All of the Predictomancers are in on it. Wanda is in on it in some capacity. The Thinkomancers are in on it in some capacity, including possibly Maggie.

Open questions are:

1. Did Stanley just luck out at Faq or did someone, through magical means, ensure that he found enough dwagons to defeat Faq and prevent the Arkenhammer from passing to Wanda? Of the casters we've actually seen, the only one with the power set to arrange Stanley getting those dwagons was Marie, if she lied to Wanda and gave her an optimal time to arrange the coup which was actually the worst possible time to do so.

2. Did Stanley engineer the coup against Saline or did someone else do it while he was gone? Charlie possibly could have engineered. OTOH, Maggie might also have been able to engineer it if she was already at GK (at this point, Jack had not been captured, so she was not yet stuck in a trimancer link).

3. Is the same person and/or conspiracy of persons responsible for both the extra dwagons Stanley found and the coup against Saline?

4. What did Banhammer know about what was happening, what did he do about it, and why?

Damn, I really wish Parson would hurry up and take Jetstone so we could start unraveling some of these mysteries!:)
atalex
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby atalex » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:47 am

fractal wrote:
Ninjaguineapig wrote:Yeah, there are a lot of people involved in Parson's coming to Erfworld and what he does. We've got Janice+Marie (who think they're on top, but don't know how much the Thinkamancers know), the Thinkamancers (who are keeping secrets from everyone, and have a bone to pick with Charlie), Charlie (who wants the greatest warlord ever to walk the face of Erf on his side, but will settle for him dead), Wanda (who is currently the most powerful unit in the area, and who follows only Fate (but is being played)), and Stanley (who has no idea what's going on at all, and is kinda dumb, but is the one with the most power over Parson).

If Charlie is the Arkendish (or heavily influenced by it), perhaps Wanda and Stanley are also influenced by their Tools? We should remember that Rob has hinted at sentience for the Arkenhammer. If so, I can't imagine Wanda resisting the effect of the Arkenpliers, but I can picture Stanley eventually growing as a person and throwing off the suggestions of the Arkenhammer. If the Arkentools are behind the wars of Erf, the entire world may depend on Stanley.

That's kind of a scary thought.


That's an interesting idea. One thing that has always bothered me is that Stanley's backstory suggests that he was at one point a capable leader. Now, he's dumb as a post. Since a hammer is a relatively blunt weapon, perhaps it has been dumbing him down to make him fit better with its own nature. A satellite dish is a tool for communication, and Charlie seems monomanically obsessed with information gathering. Even Wanda seems to have changed (to me anyway since Bk I), though I don't see how her increasingly fatalistic (excuse the pun) view connects with pliers.
atalex
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby jkosta » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:50 am

fjolnir wrote:So now we know that foolamancers see the world as layers of lies and the thinkamancers see the world as a series of strings and subtle nuances, did we have an update where wanda or sizemore describe their viewpoints through the glass of their disciplines?


Well, the stuff they deal with is a lot less abstract. Dead things are dead, or not. Earthish things are earthish, or not. And then there's this:
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_135
jkosta
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:41 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby atalex » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:55 am

pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:It seams that most people reading the update are concluding that the temple thinkamancers are anti-Charlie. All I see is that maggie believes GMtTA will keep a coded message private.


I think you underestimate the importance of a coded thinkagram. To me, it suggests that not only can Charlie hack thinkagrams, but the Thinkamancers know he can hack thinkagrams (or at least, they're worried enough about it to use codes for sensitive info) but they conceal it from everyone else, presumably because if thinkagrams were considered unreliable it would rob them of their most marketable skill.

Then there's the implication that Maggie seriously expects the leadership of her order to personally intervene in order to protect Parson (from other casters? or from agents in the MK answerable to Charlie?) even if he enters the MK in violation of its neutrality.

Poor Sizemore. Practically everyone he knows in involved in a conspiracy except him. He's starting to seem like the Ossomer of casters.
atalex
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests