Book 2 – Text Updates 038

[ShirKhan]

But what's odd about that, is Maggie has never really related Charlie as a villain to Parson.

Maggie generally seems to circumvent that little "Duty forces me to tell my side everything" problem quite efficiently by firmly believing that everyone except her would be too dumb to react appropriately. Quite possible that she doesn't think Parson would have the diplomatic skills to bring down Charlie without endangering the little conspiracy she's involved in. Not telling him what she really thinks about Charlie is well within her character of lying to people for their own sake.

[Althernai]

Wich begs the question, isn't kinda treason for all thinkmancers to don't tell such kind of details to their rulers and warlords? I would surely love to be able to feel what my subordinates feel.

I think it would only be treason if not knowing this were obviously detrimental to the side. Thinkamancers routinely deal with much more information than most units can manage so they inevitably have to filter it down for their rulers. Since they're filtering anyway, they probably feel no compunction about picking and choosing what to tell their rulers.

Poor Sizemore. Practically everyone he knows in involved in a conspiracy except him. He's starting to seem like the Ossomer of casters.

I've been feeling sorry for him for a while. I'd bet he probably expects something like this from Wanda and I don't think Maggie and the Thinkamancers would bother him that much, but Janis... that would probably hurt a lot (although she might be able to spin it her way if she gets the chance to talk to him).

[zilfallon]

Not telling Parson what she really thinks about Charlie is well within her character of lying to people for their own sake.

Well, it could be acceptable, if it wasn't Parson we're talking about...If he ever learns that Thinkamancy has secret powers and such, he's going to be, very, VERY angry. And I think Maggie showed that she is still a normal Erfworlder, by assuming that there's no way Parson could have used such information.

[wrecan]

I suspect she thinks he could usse that information... to ruin her relationship with other Thinkamancers. Parson is about to order Sizemore to dig a tunnel through MK, which, right now, both Sizemore and Parson think will ruin Sizemore's friendships in the MK. Parson has no love for the MK, so he's willing to do it to get into Spacerock. But the emotional cost to Sizemore is huge.

Imagine Parson ordering Maggie to plant disinformation on various G-Strings, or using G-Strings to determine a person's location based on the location of their thinkamancer. Parson could easily use this information in all sorts of ways, but at what cost to Maggie? I think Maggie is being more than a little self-protective. Sizemore was completely open to Parson about his capacities, contacts and powers, and Parson is using it to win one battle. Sure, he'll feel horrible about it, and it's the reason he didn't particularly want to be Chief Warlord, but in the position, he will use every resource he has, and stave off the guilt until later.

Parson is a warlord. Warlords destroy things. He blew up a volcano. He's about to take down Jetstone. He sent Bogroll to his death. He is emotionally strangling Sizemore. Before he's done, he'll probably destroy Faq, Charlie, Transylvito, Gobwin Knob (at least a few more times), and the Magic Kingdom itself. Heck, he'll probably take out a Titan or two. And Maggie knows it (or at least strongly suspects it). I think she is totally not telling Parson the true nature of thinkamancy because she fears deep down that if she tells him, he'll destroy everything she hopes will survive Parson's onslaught.

[SteveMB]

One thing that has always bothered me is that Stanley's backstory suggests that he was at one point a capable leader. Now, he's dumb as a post.

He was (and still is) capable of conducting himself well in battle. Running a side requires different skills that he doesn't have.

[Raza]

Ooh, nice update. So there's another MK conspiracy. Despite Maggie's pendant, I didn't see that coming. That's a nice trick, hiding one conspiracy behind a another semi-public one that potential suspectors would mark with the same mental tags...

This one's got more tangible reasons for doing what they do, though. And are they the "We'll have four more thinkamancers here in a minute; no charge." people? I've always thought they pointed out Sizemore, not Maggie. Also, minor inconsistencies between thinkagrams throughout the comic are explained, as well as Antium's exceptional (however late) prescience about the roof of the Atrium.

*Checked back, they did point out Sizemore, specifically... but then, the guy making the call does look like one of the faces in this text update.

another interesting problem:
"Thinkamancers were aware of certain magical truths for which, quite intentionally, there were no words in Language."

does this imply that thinkamancers somehow control language, or that some other power is manipulating language for the benefit of thinkamancers?

People control language, at least on earth. Thinkamancers (possibly throughout erf history) are merely exercising their ability to not create words for certain concepts they invent... made easy, I guess, by the absence of need to communicate these to anyone but other telepaths.

[ShinyBrownCoat]

So.. perhaps this is how Charlie was able to hack the Eyebooks.

Once Maggie had made contact with Charlie directly, he was then able to 'hack' her um.. G-String and tap into the Eyebook network.

Not quite, to hack the Eyebooks Charlie would have to reach the very source of Maggie's power: the point at which the G-String actually connects to the unit. In other words, he would have to directly access her G-spot.

[Ditto]

A reminder: Charlie is not all-knowing or all-seeing. He is all-looking. Or all-see-able. -ing. If that distinction makes sense... he's like the eye of Sauron. He can see anything he chooses to look at (or rather, listen in on), but must focus his attention on place at a time. Hence why Jillian and Tram had to wait for Charlie, and why the archons were in communication black-out while he was linked to Vanna. I'm still not 100% sold on the idea that he can directly listen in on thinkagrams, but there's certainly nothing to contradict it concretely yet.

[Urf]

Charlie is Banhammer's Perfect Warlord.

[Geordy]

In the eyes of the inhabitants of the MK, the casters, entering and crossing it as an unauthorized person - like Parson - is a reaaaal bad thing. So the casters pose an obstacle to Parson which he hopes to overcome by utilizing Sizemore digging tunnels. Fine.

Now we learn that a small group of casters - the band of supercool minds - will turn 180°because of a little message from one of their lesser members. Remember Maggie is an adept to thinkamancy. I dont get it. Why is there all of a sudden a mysterious group popping out of nowhere helping Parson? Why are they going to help him at all?

They bear a grudge against Charlie. Fine. But how is helping in the destruction of Jetstone supposed to work against Charlie? If this was true this would heavily imply that they too long for eliminating war itself (by helping one single side to world domination) and therefor kicking Charlie out of business. Which is pretty dumb because then they would be obsolete, too. Apart from that I dont see any reason for them to wish for the destruction of Jetstone (except for Maggie maybe).

And as I am at it right now let me add a little detail in the name of justice: remember the outcry as the comic first hinted at the possibility that Charlie may be able to hack thinkagrams? Now - as a direct response to this so it seems -
thinkamancers magically display the ability to circumvent this. This ability just popped up and nobody finds this nowhere near as outrageous as when Charlie magically earned an ability. Let me guess why - because this time this helps Parson.

[...]the Ossomer of casters.

You made me laugh! Thank you.

[joosy]

so Thinkamancers spend all day mindplucking everyone's G-strings.

Nice.

[effataigus]

Interesting... Maggie disobeyed a direct command from Parson (last panel):

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/124.jpg

... although I suppose "start telling me" and "tell me every" are two separate things...

I'm now wondering what significance the illuminati pendant has. If its a mark of the {acronym}, Bunny might already know where Parson is headed... not that she has any strong reason to volunteer that info to Don or JS.

Interesting for other reasons too, of course. I do love this Charlie character.

[Krennson]

And as I am at it right now let me add a little detail in the name of justice: remember the outcry as the comic first hinted at the possibility that Charlie may be able to hack thinkagrams? Now - as a direct response to this so it seems -
thinkamancers magically display the ability to circumvent this. This ability just popped up and nobody finds this nowhere near as outrageous as when Charlie magically earned an ability. Let me guess why - because this time this helps Parson.

[...]the Ossomer of casters.

You made me laugh! Thank you.

We don't KNOW that thinkamancy can use certain measures to avoid charlie's eavesdropping.... what we know is that maggie thinks that basic encryption of messages PROBABLY prevents Charlie from interpreting the message correctly, even though he can intercept scrambled portion of the text. We don't know how good charlie is at cryptography, or whether he can hire a caster who is good at cryptography.

[wrecan]

Interesting... Maggie disobeyed a direct command from Parson (last panel):

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/124.jpg

... although I suppose "start telling me" and "tell me every" are two separate things...

That, and they only had about an hour, according to Parson. Presumably, Wanda had to tell him about all those scroll cannisters, and then Sizemore was telling him about golems and such. By the time they get to Wanda, she only told him the basics of using thinkamancy offensively. I'm sure she stalled as much as possibly so he'd end his order before she had to get into the sensitive details about her g-strings

[zilfallon]

I suspect she thinks he could usse that information... to ruin her relationship with other Thinkamancers. Parson is about to order Sizemore to dig a tunnel through MK, which, right now, both Sizemore and Parson think will ruin Sizemore's friendships in the MK. Parson has no love for the MK, so he's willing to do it to get into Spacerock. But the emotional cost to Sizemore is huge.

Imagine Parson ordering Maggie to plant disinformation on various G-Strings, or using G-Strings to determine a person's location based on the location of their thinkamancer. Parson could easily use this information in all sorts of ways, but at what cost to Maggie? I think Maggie is being more than a little self-protective. Sizemore was completely open to Parson about his capacities, contacts and powers, and Parson is using it to win one battle. Sure, he'll feel horrible about it, and it's the reason he didn't particularly want to be Chief Warlord, but in the position, he will use every resource he has, and stave off the guilt until later.

Parson is a warlord. Warlords destroy things. He blew up a volcano. He's about to take down Jetstone. He sent Bogroll to his death. He is emotionally strangling Sizemore. Before he's done, he'll probably destroy Faq, Charlie, Transylvito, Gobwin Knob (at least a few more times), and the Magic Kingdom itself. Heck, he'll probably take out a Titan or two. And Maggie knows it (or at least strongly suspects it). I think she is totally not telling Parson the true nature of thinkamancy because she fears deep down that if she tells him, he'll destroy everything she hopes will survive Parson's onslaught.

If what you said above is true , then it means Maggie hid information from Parson knowing that the information would be to his benefit, which (most of the time) equals treason. If she's denying Parson important information for her personal benefit, well, I don't think it is possible since she seems to have a high loyalty to Parson, even more than her loyalty to her faction. I just think that Maggie assumed (as a standard erfworlder) that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Parson to use something known and understood only by thinkamancers. But we know that Parson is capable of finding a way to abuse those G-strings, so yeah, he's going to be very mad if he learns about them. I think he could even slap Maggie if she says "but you never asked".

[technojunkie]

Ooooh, let's see...

Zelda, the Pyro, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Aristotle... the rest are beyond me.

I enjoyed this update.

EDIT: Sagan, of course. Still can't get the rest, although I feel like as soon as someone else identifies them, I'll have a Profoundly Obvious Moment.

EDIT2: The face I had supposed to be that of the Pyro is much more likely Psycho Mantis

EDIT3: ...and Spock

I'm thinking the bottom right is Galadriel

[yuffiek]

Re: why Maggie and the GMWTA refer to Charlie as "it".

1) Thinkamancers are essential to Erfworld's mechanics. Through them, all units can be accounted for and directed. They are the phone grid/interwebs.

2) Charlie, via the Arkendish, apparently has unlimited, uncounterable access to the web. As said, he potentially has a realtime status on EVERY SINGLE UNIT IN ERFWORLD.

From the viewpoint of a Thinkamancer, Charlie's not a Titan, or a God, but an Eldritch Abomination who is playing with everyone's lives.... Which makes him STUPID-WORLD Parson. Erfworld Parson is literally playing against himself.

[wrecan]

If what you said above is true , then it means Maggie hid information from Parson knowing that the information would be to his benefit, which (most of the time) equals treason.

Possibly. It may be the great Minds That Think Alike have some sort of ability to override that Duty to preserve their secrets. Actually, I would think it likely that other rulers would have issued orders -- even inadvertently -- that would otherwise compel a thinkamancer to reveal the existence of their little cabal. Even something as innocuous as "Tell me about the thinkamancers int he Magic Kingdom... how much do they know of our plans?" would reveal their secrets. I would think the Great Minds have to have a way to override a thinkamancer's Duty for the limited purpose of maintaining their secrets.

[kagato23]

Charlie is the antithesis of the perspective of miss Janis...and the Great Minds Who Think Alike. Beyond that, who he is does not matter.
They all together conspired to bring Parson Gotti, Lord Hamster to this world, to create a nation that could exist without war.
Charlie exists solely because of war. He can only pay upkeep on his massive array of archons because all others are constantly fighting one another, hiring him. One day his forces will be sufficient to conquer everything in a single turn. It is that day that the conspiracy exists to prevent. And there is nothing more terrifying to him than decrypted, for they have no upkeep. That is his doom.
Parson and Wanda are the keys. They are both together in one place now.

Charlie knows.
I know.

I have to disagree, because If your right, it's the opposite of his doom. It's the greatest opportunity he could conceive of. Imagine all of his troops, now with zero upkeep but still able to level. That'd skyrocket his profit margin (though to be fair, he might not know about upkeep). It'd make Wanda as big a target for him as Parson; if he could turn her or find another attuned that'd join with him, he'd be able to create or at least recycle troops into a better force. He'd probably also own a few more cities as well (probably far removed from his primary, in order to maximize his move potential for units without risking them in the wild for his big push).

One thing that has always bothered me is that Stanley's backstory suggests that he was at one point a capable leader. Now, he's dumb as a post.

Stanley was an amazing warlord because he'd win any fight you put him in (I'm guessing he's actually pretty good even without the Arkentool, at least by now, cause he probably has quite a few levels. I'd love to see who'd win in a straight, no-tool fight between him and Ansom, though that'll likely never happen). He was a good (not amazing, for reasons listed below) chief warlord because of his bonuses, and by this point his ability to pull in dwagons. His strategy was without a doubt crap, but he had a king who could probably help with that, keeping him from doing anything too stupid, and the rest came down to him curbstomping anything in his way. His own activities, from what we've seen, generally paid off because he had the raw power to get through any of the times it went wrong.

However, once he was in charge, he becomes a ruler that is A: easily manipulated (Wanda, and to a lesser extent Maggie) B: Has no strategic skills whatsoever, C: can no longer be sent out himself, meaning his bonus and raw power curbstomp attributes are almost never in effect, and D: Since he had no need for them himself, doesn't consider strategic abilities when choosing his chief warlords and will if left unchecked largely try to use them in highly limited ways.

So basically, his best qualities as a warlord are no longer applicable, and the new qualities he needs he never had and isn't picking up. If the current situation was reversed, with Parson being an overlord and Stanley being his Chief, Parson could probably micromanage them into a neigh unstoppable force (imagine the power of Wanda and her uncroaked riding arkenhammer bonuse'd dwagons. The aforementioned curbstomping just became redefined.) There are many roles where Stanley is incredibly useful and, if not competent, capable, but none of them are making him the man who should be in charge.

[oslecamo2]

Wich begs the question, isn't kinda treason for all thinkmancers to don't tell such kind of details to their rulers and warlords? I would surely love to be able to feel what my subordinates feel.

I think it would only be treason if not knowing this were obviously detrimental to the side. Thinkamancers routinely deal with much more information than most units can manage so they inevitably have to filter it down for their rulers. Since they're filtering anyway, they probably feel no compunction about picking and choosing what to tell their rulers.

Hamster just turned an harvesting mechanic and a riding limitation on a drop combo to win the day. Hamster is precisely the kind of person who can use and abuse every little rule he knows, and Maggie knows that (probably better than anyone). Not telling him what thinkmancy is really capable off is clearly against her duty.