Book 2 – Text Updates 038

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Tiger » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:07 pm

So... the Thinkamancers hate Charlie, for reasons that have already been speculated on and probably for much grander reasons that we don't have enough information to know about. Sensible. But how does that translate to helping Parson? Charlie's done his utmost to keep people from finding out that he's actively working against Gobwin Knob. That's a highly valuable piece of intel. If Maggie knew, she would have told Parson. So it's highly likely she doesn't know, in which case, why is she expecting the Thinkamancers to help Parson?

And how do the loyalties of Thinkamancers from sides opposed to Gobwin Knob, such as Bunny, fit into this? Are they simply kept out of the loop?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby the_tick_rules » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:09 pm

G-strings, hillarious. So this might help explain how he knows so much beyond the idea of him tapping thinkagrams. He taps the strands of the universe or whatever. I'm guessing they'll help because they see Charlie's threat to the entire order and every side.
Last edited by the_tick_rules on Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby badninja » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:12 pm

Oh boy, this is bad how many casters has Charlie pissed off? If some thinkamancers are willing to help GK break an unwritten rule, he has burned a few too many bridges with his arrogance.

I am a huge fan of Charlie and plan on supporting him for a while, but how bad is Parson screwing up his plans that he is willing to lie, cheat and con his way to keep his power? I feel that Charlie is not the Big Bad of the story, he will be big but with an entire world out there and GK close to Charlie I feel he will fall by either book 3 or 4.

The story keeps getting better and better I wonder how the Spacerock and the rest of Erfworld will react to Parson's plan. Plus I wonder if TV's thinkamancer Bunny is part of this group, just not helping right now so as not to effect her loyalty to her side? I cannot wait for the next update to see the outcome of this message?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby the_tick_rules » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:24 pm

He's screwing up Charlie's stuff hardcore. GK is out to control as much as possible. Normally Charlie would just offer his services to help and he'd get his schmuckers. But Parson doesn't trust Charlie and Stanley hates Charlie, so GK won't be giving Charlie any contracts any time soon. So the more GK controls the less Charlie has to get his candy from. the casters who apparently are in tune with some things can see through charlie's disguise easier than others.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Raza » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:28 pm

I don't see Parson slapping anyone, or getting angry because a caster didn't detail the full philosophical underpinnings of their discipline. As all of us know, people can debate that sort of thing for days, and the distinction between pet theory and applicable principle becomes sketchier the further the subject gets from observable reality. There's plenty of room to wriggle out of duty there, even with sincerity depending on her own perceptions.

Something like communicating intuitions over thinkagram might come up in specific real-erfworld combat scenarios, but the G-string stuff? Iunno.


Eta: new thought. 'Intended orders' are apparently a distinct channel from sound/words - which makes sense, considering they can be conveyed without these. This opens up interesting options for Bunny, should she join Ceasar in a coup against Don.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby teratorn » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:36 pm

ShinyBrownCoat wrote:Not quite, to hack the Eyebooks Charlie would have to reach the very source of Maggie's power: the point at which the G-String actually connects to the unit. In other words, he would have to directly access her G-spot. :shock:


:shock: I wonder if Maggie only realized this when Charlie hacked the e-books, and only then the great minds learned about it.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby atalex » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:40 pm

fjolnir wrote:
The only other overlord with the potential for the same humble beginnings is Charlie. This would bring in ANOTHER real world reference onto him, which is "Flowers for Algernon" where Charlie, a dumb but happy man gains intelligence through an undescribed technique, he bonds with a lab rat that underwent a similar experiment and finds that being smart brings him nothing but woe and his mental gains are also distressingly temporary.


Holy crap! I totally forgot that the main character from "Flowers for Algernon" was named Charlie! That raises entirely new possibilities for Charlie's true nature and agenda!
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby oslecamo2 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:46 pm

Raza wrote:I don't see Parson slapping anyone, or getting angry because a caster didn't detail the full philosophical underpinnings of their discipline. As all of us know, people can debate that sort of thing for days, and the distinction between pet theory and applicable principle becomes sketchier the further the subject gets from observable reality. There's plenty of room to wriggle out of duty there, even with sincerity depending on her own perceptions.

Something like communicating intuitions over thinkagram might come up in specific real-erfworld combat scenarios, but the G-string stuff? Iunno.


Except that Maggie had days to talk while Hamster was on "vacation" from being Chief warlord. They even had picnics! Plus Maggie doesn't say it's a theory, she can literally touch those strings and send coded messages that aparently not even Charlie could intercept. It's pratical in Erfworld. And at no juice cost.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby atalex » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:46 pm

A Predictamancer wrote:And there is nothing more terrifying to him than decrypted, for they have no upkeep. That is his doom.


His doom or the key to his victory. Charlie + Wanda = an army of zero-upkeep archons. That's a good formula for global domination.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Crisis21 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:59 pm

regisminae wrote:Ooooh, let's see...

Zelda, the Pyro, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Aristotle... the rest are beyond me.

I enjoyed this update.

EDIT: Sagan, of course. Still can't get the rest, although I feel like as soon as someone else identifies them, I'll have a Profoundly Obvious Moment.

EDIT2: The face I had supposed to be that of the Pyro is much more likely Psycho Mantis

EDIT3: ...and Spock


Better than I could manage. I only spotted Zelda.

Also, more info on Charlie and what he can do (and how dangerous he is). Charlie intercepting thinkagrams just became the low end of his Thinkamancy threat capacity if I'm understanding the implications here.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby atalex » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:01 pm

Raza wrote:And are they the "We'll have four more thinkamancers here in a minute; no charge." people? I've always thought they pointed out Sizemore, not Maggie.

-snip-

*Checked back, they did point out Sizemore, specifically... but then, the guy making the call does look like one of the faces in this text update.



Yeah, this does offer a possible different perspective on that exchange, doesn't it. If all those assembled were part of the conspiracy then the surprised comment about Sizemore being there isn't surprise that the "rockstar" of the Magic Kingdom had been caught in a trimancer link, but rather acknowledgment of the fact that two co-conspirators had linked with someone outside the conspiracy. Or not. Who knows right now?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby nth » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:04 pm

oslecamo2 wrote:
My personal bet it's that Erfworld has "mental stats" to go along with physical stats. Mancers have the highest mental stats around and are thus able to outthink everybody else, wich gives them the benefit of bending and stretching their Duty.

This also explains why Stanley is Stanley. He was not born a warlord or prince or mancer, but a lowly infantry dude, wich from what we've seen are quite-simple minded. Aka low mental stats, as they're born to serve as simple cannon fodder. Stanley has since raised trough the ranks, but his low mental stats from a lowly infantry dude remain.

Do we know of any other ruler with such humble beginnings? Not really. They were all born as warlords or princes, already with average-good mental stats.


Might also explain why Charlie never pops anything but archons...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:15 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Conclusion: Banhammer was getting close to learning something important and Charlie rubbed him out.


It's not the first time that theory appears, but it's one to look for. I approve of this. There's more to Faq falling than just setting the stage for Wanda and Jillian battling it out with lightsabers as Wanda says "I betrayed Faq" and Jillian's like "NOOOOOOOOOO!"

peteratjet wrote:Seeing the gasmask, my first thought was Dream aka Morpheus aka The Sandman


I approve! I mean, now I know that's not true but on first seeing that, that was my thought as well.

atalex wrote:Poor Sizemore. Practically everyone he knows in involved in a conspiracy except him. He's starting to seem like the Ossomer of casters.


A winnar is yuo!

Anyways, to the update.

When I first encountered the Grandiocosmic String thing I was like "awww feck; I'm gonna have to go in the reactions thread and play all grumpy again against this string theory business" but then I realized the purpose of that being there. I'm not pissed off anymore, and yeah, that's quite some mileage obtained from one pun! Nice!

I also like the general theme of the update. It's not just that we learn more about the way Erfworld works. I'll argue, even though I cannot yet quite explain why, that the info we were told now is leagues more important than stuff about Lobot-warlord or Sammy or Haggar. We learn more about what big groups of interest in Erfworld are, and we immediately see them crossing the plot. In ways that suggest they'll cross again, significantly, and leave us wanting to know more, to see this accumulation of energy unleashed.

(You may apply all of the above to the Lobot update, or Haggar update as well. I said I cannot quite explain why this update seems much more significant. It's not just the scale of the reveal I think, there's something qualitatively different)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby atalex » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:16 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:Stanley hates Charlie


I've asked this before, but does anyone have any actual reason to think Stanley really hates Charlie other than what Wanda told Parson about the subject at a time when she was actively misleading him about the state of her Loyalty to Stanley?

A possible theory:

Wanda wanted the Hammer, so she contacted Stanley to try and lure him into an ambush at Faq. She used Charlie as the go between (or perhaps some other Thinkamancer and Charlie merely hacked the Thinkagram). Charlie, seeing his own opportunity to get the Hammer, sabotaged the ambush by arranging for Stanley to acquire a huge contingent of wild dwagons on the way, and at the same time, used mind control to cause the hobgobwins to croak Saline. His thinking was that with Saline out of the way, Stanley rises to overlord, a position for which he is unqualified, making it easier for Charlie to take the Hammer later, possibly by manipulating the RCC into doing the dirty work. The hobgobwins lie about their involvement because of a mental compulsion. Wanda actively lies to Parson about Stanley's feelings towards Charlie because that road leads back to exposing her conspiracy to croak Stanley.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby Feirgon » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:23 pm

As much as I am loving the conversation about the underpinnings of Thinkamancy, I really want to work out who the people in the picture represent. (One of my favorite things in this comic is the real world refernces and trying to spot/figure them out)

Using the info that regisminae was able to figure out we have (in squiggle order...):

Psycho Mantis (Metal Gear Solid)
??? (The man with the facial hair)
Carl Sagan
Aristotle
??? (My initial thought was Samus, but I have never imagined her as a great mind. Plus her suit covers up her neck line which we can clearly see in this drawing)
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Princess Zelda
Jean Grey (X-Men, aka Phoenix)
Spock
??? (My initial thought was a character from Kindgom Hearts, particularly Sora or Roxas because of the jacket+hoodie combination, but neither of them would make a "Great Mind")

So, looking for ideas if you got any for the unknowns. Or if you have better ideas than the ones that I have listed.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby HandofShadows » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:31 pm

Plots upon plans hidden inside riddles. Is Erfworld heading for a 30 Xanatos Plieup? :o
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby vector121 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:37 pm

I find it funny that when people have read about plucking a G-string they start thinking about undergarments. After all, a G-String is a string on a guitar, and Erf has some strong musical components.

So from the looks of it this explains how Charlie can know that someone wants to talk to him. He observes the vibrations of G-strings, and looks for vibrations that are relevant to him. This would also mean that thinkagrams are not secure at all unless a thinkamancer is capable of some form of encryption method. Any capable thinkamancer who is observing the vibrations of strings could conceivably intercept messages, and not just the words but the intent and more.

I wonder if a thinkamancer could cause seriously nasty damage to someone by plucking their G-string at the right timing over long periods to cause massive resonant amplification...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby The Shadow » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:40 pm

I think it entirely likely (though not yet confirmed) that Stanley does indeed hate Charlie, for the simple reason that Charlie has a Tool, and there doesn't seem to be any easy way of getting it from him.

As for Maggie's disloyalty in not telling Parson stuff... How can she? The update already said that most of the stuff Thinkamancers do *can't even be expressed in spoken language*.

Now, she *could* tell him, "We Thinkmancers can do a lot of ... stuff. We're a lot more flexible than you think, we aren't limited to specific spells." But she's no more disloyal for not doing that than any other Thinkamancer is by not telling their Chief Warlord and/or Overlord.

Now, on to the meat of the update. This one was *fascinating*.

The Thinkamancers see Charlie as a threat to the entire world. People ask, "How does that translate into helping Parson?" Simple. They were in on the whole Summon Perfect Warlord plot. We don't yet know why - we know Janis thinks they were played, but after this update, I doubt that very much. At any rate, they weren't any more played than Janis was herself.

But it certainly seems plausible now that the Thinkamancers wanted a Perfect Warlord in order to take down Charlie. Naturally they don't want him rubbed out for coming into the Magic Kingdom!

Please note that Spock - who now seems likely to be one of the GMTTA (I also love that phrase) - worked hand in glove with Janis to get Parson out of hot water the first time he went to the MK.

The thing I'm wondering now is, how were the Thinkamancers planning on pointing Parson in Charlie's direction? Why Stanley, of all people? (This goes for the other Perfect Warlord factions too.) Were they just waiting for someone who could and would pay for the spell? It seems more likely that they deliberately dropped it in Stanley's lap, with a high price to keep him from getting suspicious.

The only thing I can really think of is that he runs Wanda's side, and she's the only higher-up conspirator who's not part of the MK, that we know of. That and he probably (see above) hates Charlie, and *maybe* has history with him, as many have speculated.

Though you know? I'm now starting to wonder if the Don is at least at the fringes of this conspiracy. His actions lately do not seem in character with his shrewd nature, unless he's playing a very deep game.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:44 pm

vector121 wrote:I find it funny that when people have read about plucking a G-string they start thinking about undergarments. After all, a G-String is a string on a guitar, and Erf has some strong musical components.


It's a very multilayered pun. Lots of work it accomplishes.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 038

Postby The Shadow » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:46 pm

Another thought I just had. How aware of all this Thinkamancy stuff are natural Thinkamancers like the Archons? I'm guessing not very - they do everything by instinct.
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