Book 2 - Text Updates 039

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby oslecamo2 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:06 pm

Shusagi wrote:
Decorus wrote:Warlord bonuses Stack if you put 2 or more Warlords in the same stack they both increase the stack. So when Wanda and Ansom were in the same stack everyone got Ansom's bonus and Wanda's Croakmancer leadership bonus for being decrypted.


But in that case, Wanda was giving a caster bonus and Ansom was giving a leadership bonus. We don't know for sure if warlord bonuses stack, since there hasn't been a single example in the comic yet.


There have been plenty. Warlord stack of DOOM seems to to be a pretty common tactic.

This is, don't you remember Sizemore shocking and craping a pair of warlords behind enemy lines? They were togheter to combine their stacking bonus.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Hidden Sanity » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:14 pm

Maybe air resistance is constant across all objects? (Or absent o.O) Well.. objects constant across all objects that don't have the 'float' property(Objects that have such a property would be like a feather, or paper.)
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Smoker » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:33 pm

Hidden Sanity wrote:Maybe air resistance is constant across all objects? (Or absent o.O) Well.. objects constant across all objects that don't have the 'float' property(Objects that have such a property would be like a feather, or paper.)


Or maybe it was just an artistic piece of writing? :)
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Oberon » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:38 pm

drachefly wrote:
Beeskee wrote:After all, if you could remove the racism, genocide, and all the evil etc from Nazis, you end up with a group of people who value science, education, and physical fitness.

And you've removed their entire philosophical basis in the process.
Nonsense. Fascism* does not require racism, genocide, etc. Those systems are merely highly subject to those influences, just as Democracy is highly subject to some quantifiable influences. If one could guard strongly against those influences, fascism would make for a very strong and focused society. One capable of astonishing feats. And the same could be said for socialism, or communism, or capitalism. Eliminate the weaknesses and nearly any system of government can be nearly Utopian in its capabilities.

* I mean fascism in the dictionary sense, and not in the pejorative sense that it is often used today. Fascism by itself is not a bad thing, just as communism or socialism by themselves are not bad things. The problem with any of these systems is the corruption that they are very weak against and highly subject to. It is these weaknesses which are the stereotype that these systems are painted with, and not their strengths.
oslecamo2 wrote:There have been plenty [of examples of warlords stacking there bonuses]. Warlord stack of DOOM seems to to be a pretty common tactic.

This is, don't you remember Sizemore shocking and craping a pair of warlords behind enemy lines? They were togheter to combine their stacking bonus.
Er, they were together, yes. But there was no indication that they were even in the same stack, much less stacking their bonuses. All the evidence we have to date indicates that only a single warlord bonus can be applied to a stack.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Smoker » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:41 pm

oslecamo2 wrote:
Shusagi wrote:
Decorus wrote:Warlord bonuses Stack if you put 2 or more Warlords in the same stack they both increase the stack. So when Wanda and Ansom were in the same stack everyone got Ansom's bonus and Wanda's Croakmancer leadership bonus for being decrypted.


But in that case, Wanda was giving a caster bonus and Ansom was giving a leadership bonus. We don't know for sure if warlord bonuses stack, since there hasn't been a single example in the comic yet.


There have been plenty. Warlord stack of DOOM seems to to be a pretty common tactic.

This is, don't you remember Sizemore shocking and craping a pair of warlords behind enemy lines? They were togheter to combine their stacking bonus.


You mean Leadership bonus, right? (Stack bonus is equal to the number of units in a stack, that maxes at 8. )

But anyway, do we know these two were combining leadership, or were they just standing near each other? Is it possible they had stacks of their own, and just walked over to the middle of the two? Or could they have been in the same stack, and just using the best bonus?

We've seen warlords stack together before, but I cant recall anything that states their bonuses stack. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
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Re: Terminal velocity

Postby Vreejack » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:52 pm

danhaas wrote:
Thank you, you've pointed most of the physics. But you forgot that arrows have a metal tip, which can increase its average density a lot. One other thing is that objects of same form and density, but differente sizes, DO have different terminal velocities. Both cross-sectional friction and skin friction are proportional to the area of the body, and the weight depends on the volume of the body. That's why wind can lift sand but not rocks. There are a lot of parameters around, and they can certainly be tweaked so the arrow and the dwagon have the same terminal velocity.

And let's not forget that this is Erfworld, for christ's sake, the physics doesn't have to be the same.


Of course not, I was just pointing out some physics errors. By the way, the metal tip is not actually denser than the wood, or else it would tend to make the arrows flight sag a bit. An archer can compensate for this somewhat, but modern arrow heads are usually made so that centimeter for centimeter they have the same linear density as the shaft, which means they also have the same skin drag for their mass as the rest of the arrow. But the arrow head is not very large and contributes more to pressure drag.

Also I did not mean to imply that an arrow shot to maximum range was falling at terminal velocity. Far from it. An arrow fired for distance at 45 degrees has half its energy moving horizontal and half vertical. The vertical portion reverses direction as the arrow rises and falls, while the horizontal portion just decreases slowly from the point of launch. Terminal velocity in free fall occurs when the horizontal portion drops to zero (unless it was fired straight down, of course). An arrow will usually hit something long before this happens, even if only the ground.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby barawn » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:59 pm

Swiftbow wrote:Max falling speed is constant across all objects in our world, too, by the way. I think it would be more shocking to discover that it WASN'T like that in Erfworld.


Note, this isn't even close to true (obviously, as anyone who's dropped a feather and a rock at the same time can attest). Terminal velocity is completely dependent upon the drag properties and mass of the object.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Vreejack » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:06 pm

barawn wrote:
Swiftbow wrote:Max falling speed is constant across all objects in our world, too, by the way. I think it would be more shocking to discover that it WASN'T like that in Erfworld.


Note, this isn't even close to true (obviously, as anyone who's dropped a feather and a rock at the same time can attest). Terminal velocity is completely dependent upon the drag properties and mass of the object.


I was going to ask him to name any two such objects that had the same maximum falling speed, just to see if he had given it any thought at all. In the absence of friction, all objects will fall at the same speed, but in that case they will not actually have a MAX speed, they will just keep on accelerating until they hit the ground.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Dr Pepper » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:07 pm

Next time Parson steps down, Stanley should promote Sylvia Scarlet to Chief Warlady.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby kreszantas » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:14 pm

In the cases of the harvested dwagons they have "X" in their eyes so they are dead, therefore the hits they take have to depend on if its a heavy rider in the saddle or as in Scarlet's case a warlord, so SHE harvested the dwagon so any hits on the dwagon are doing nothing but adding a small amount of weight to it. 2nd part is there is no relation to the 10 hits from arrows to the 10 stabbers due to the meglogwiff was still alive the dwagon was not. Someone would have to do a timeline sequence on that, but I am sure not. Another note: The arrow movement is working exactly as mechanic described in parsons klog related to arrows sticking in the hex boundary.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby DukeGod » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:58 pm

Emaria wrote:Captain archer, funny name or reference to *shudder* star trek enterprise. Not quite sure by the pic.

Excellent update though.

This was probably said a thousand times alreaady but I really got to add one more

Try GARcher
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby king.of.cats » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:24 am

Krennson wrote:
bdares wrote:
Krennson wrote:hmmm... so if I'm reading this right, max falling speed is constant across all objects?

it looks like the arrows only change speed during a few seconds at the top of their curve, then fall towards the ground at a constant rate.... which is also the same constant rate that dead dragons fall.

I wonder if arrows also RISE at a constant rate? either way, This is going to have wacky consequences for things like ballistic tables...


There's no need for things to fall at a constant rate for Sylvia's experience to happen. If the arrows' peak height is approximately the same as the height at which Sylvia was when she croaked her mount, the velocities would match for Newtonian physics as well.


not really. The arrow is made of denser material than a dragon, and has a smaller cross section than a dragon. in a newtonian world, the arrow would have had proportionally less air resistance, and would have accellerated faster, and reached a higher terminal velocity.

Also, in your scenario, where sylvia croaked her mount at the same height as the arrow's apex, she wouldn't have noticed the arrows slowing down at all, they would have just instantly been moving at the same speed.

Since she describes the arrow as "slowing down", it appears that the arrows were already moving at their max velocity, and the dragon slowly increased it's rate of fall until the dragon was falling at the same rate as the arrows.


The 5 senses are a myth. One of your many senses is your sense of time -- and as you fall and adrenaline kicks in your sense of time is skewed, perceptions quickening & time seeming to slow.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby DoctorJest » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:25 am

PurpleLemur wrote:Hm...

F = Th
(As in Erf is Earth)

Fud = Thud.

Nicely named. If my logic is correct.


Fud = Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_unce ... _and_doubt
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby yuffiek » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:48 am

Smoker wrote:We've seen warlords stack together before, but I cant recall anything that states their bonuses stack. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


The warlord bonus doesn't stack with multiple warlords. Other bonuses though will stack, like Wanda's bonus on all Decrypted stacking with Ansom's Chief Warlord bonus. (Summer Updates pg 33)

Next to Wanda (lvl 8), Sylvia is probably the toughest character (lvl 7) on the ground, so her bonus is absolutely vital for GK atm. Fud is effectively a Lvl 10+ bodyguard right now (+7 from Sylvia, and 2 gained levels)

Oh yeah, that reminds me that Wanda's Decrypted armored red Dwagon currently serving as her meat shield from JS arrows is also getting her massive stack bonus, and is about to get Duke Antium's Warlord bonus.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Ouze » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:30 am

Always nice to see Red again. Doing epic stuff to boot is a sweet bonus.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Krennson » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:40 am

Beeskee wrote:I


On-topic: "The stone floor, solid as a rulebook"... Is Sylvia thinking this? If so, does that mean Erfworld has an actual rulebook somewhere in the popped libraries that Parson missed? Or do units have a concept of rulebooks without them actually existing? (That would be weird, since they have no concept of children.) Or is this flavor text by the author and not actually indicative of something that exists in Erfworld?



The concept of a 'rulebook' is probably part of erfworlds weird 'religion of the titans.' They probably don't have an ACTUAL rulebook handed down by the titans, but there might be several 'proposed' rulebooks by various philosphers, with differing levels of "crunchiness" versus "spiritualist" aspects to how they describe the erfworld condition
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Krennson » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:17 am

Krennson wrote:
Beeskee wrote:I


On-topic: "The stone floor, solid as a rulebook"... Is Sylvia thinking this? If so, does that mean Erfworld has an actual rulebook somewhere in the popped libraries that Parson missed? Or do units have a concept of rulebooks without them actually existing? (That would be weird, since they have no concept of children.) Or is this flavor text by the author and not actually indicative of something that exists in Erfworld?



The concept of a 'rulebook' is probably part of erfworlds weird 'religion of the titans.' They probably don't have an ACTUAL rulebook handed down by the titans, but there might be several 'proposed' rulebooks by various philosphers, with differing levels of "crunchiness" versus "spiritualist" aspects to how they describe the erfworld condition



Although.... come to think of it, an "owners manual" would be the perfect arkentool for parson to find.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:36 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Mid-term speculation though (since I'm not that interested in the details of the fall mechanics yet)- the Atrium is cleared. It's the decision that makes sense, and we knew this is what Jetstone was doing. It helps limit the friendly fire damage as well as any decryption. Finally, it forces GK units to fit through (presumably) choke-points- the entrances to the Atrium.

So Sylvia is doing well to try and get some cannon fodder now and deny it to the enemy, for the later push will be even more brutal. And that's just it, the battle is not yet won. GK's most valuable 2 units (Wanda and Jack) are in a closed off yard, needing to fight their way out through walls of infantry, possibly while under enemy fire.

They can fight, so it's not as desperate as before. But Parson needs to pull off one more trick to really tip the scales. So we await the Portal abuse with anticipation. It will probably involve ambushing Slately somehow, assuming Wanda and co. can keep most of Jetstone distracted.


Inside a choke point may be an ideal location to use dwagon breath weapons.

Probably more important is the inability to recover bodies. The defense will have to choose between concentrating and plugging the passage or leaving gaps for both the dead and the infantry carrying them. It gets even more complicated for Jetstone when Jack is present.

A stack of heavy units with ridiculous combat bonuses would stand a good chance of hacking its way down a hallway. They cannot be surrounded at the bottleneck.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby Decorus » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:43 am

yuffiek wrote:
Smoker wrote:We've seen warlords stack together before, but I cant recall anything that states their bonuses stack. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


The warlord bonus doesn't stack with multiple warlords. Other bonuses though will stack, like Wanda's bonus on all Decrypted stacking with Ansom's Chief Warlord bonus. (Summer Updates pg 33)

Next to Wanda (lvl 8), Sylvia is probably the toughest character (lvl 7) on the ground, so her bonus is absolutely vital for GK atm. Fud is effectively a Lvl 10+ bodyguard right now (+7 from Sylvia, and 2 gained levels)

Oh yeah, that reminds me that Wanda's Decrypted armored red Dwagon currently serving as her meat shield from JS arrows is also getting her massive stack bonus, and is about to get Duke Antium's Warlord bonus.



Actually what you quoted proves thier bonuses stack.
Thats also how Trans was able to fight evenly against Stanley's Dwagon/KISS force in the gap before FAQ.
Ansom gives +10 and Wanda gives +8 every unit in the stack has +18 to thier attack.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F125.jpg
Or as Parson says to win you gotta pile bonus on bonus on bonus.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 039

Postby CNagy » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:54 am

That doesn't prove it at all, though. It only proves that different bonuses stack. Transylvito actually provides evidence to the contrary in its fight with Stanley in the form of Caesar's bats, which get his full bonus (chief warlord plus chief warlord in the hex bonus plus Caesar's leadership bonus) and in the process shows that those are distinct bonuses. In Ansom's case, we know what his Warlord effects are: +3 to all units, +2 (total +5) to units in his hex, and +5 (total +10) to units in his stack. Wanda's rules are bit a murkier, given her unique case, but we do know there is an Artifact bonus in play and we can assume that her status as Chief Croakamancer (as it is specifically mentioned) provides a bonus to uncroaked/decrypted (we don't know how much or how far it extends, but if it is an area affect then we must assume the local effect is greater.)

Anyway, the summer update does prove that stacks can be co-led. It says in plain language that Ansom is leading a stack of 6 heavies with Wanda. That does not give evidence that warlord bonuses stack, since the source of the bonus is different (warlord + caster as opposed to warlord + warlord). While I don't believe we have seen any solid, conclusive evidence one way or the other, I personally believe that warlord bonuses do not stack--for the simple reason that, if they did, Parson would have mentioned it as he was learning the rules of the game and he would have tried to seek some sort of exploit by it. When he does mention piling on bonuses, he rattles off a series of bonus types.
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