Book 2 – Page 52

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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby dirocyn » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:11 am

A single point of weakness, like a small thermal vent..."I think you overestimate their chances..." Slately is Tarkin, but that makes Tram Darth Vader! Next strip, Tram has to say "I will deal with them myself."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby peteratjet » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:14 am

Snowtitan wrote:
Nows7 wrote:I would expect a Uni-brow-ataur before a mustache-ataur.


Except they've already done that joke with city names :)

Also does anybody thing that bird looks like it's taking a photo?
They could have a spy in their midst


<twinpeaks>The Orlies are not what they seem?</twinpeaks>
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby dirocyn » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:20 am

Catherine_Puce wrote:
danhaas wrote:O snap!

So they can move through zones out of turn, and the portal is in their dungeon. Awesome.


From what we know they cannot, this is why they need the failing trick to reach the courtyard. I think this is because they are under attack. If range attack would be protected by the zone rule. It would be simple to always win against melee unit. Just wait your turn and shoot them from the other hex. By attacking Jetstone allowed the enemy to launch a counter attack.

Ça risque de leur être mortel.

S.P.P.


It's not because they're under attack, it's because they've already successfully crossed into the garrison. Atrium, dungeon and tower are all sub-zones of garrison, we have this directly from Tram in a text update. No zone more zone barriers to cross, now that they're on the ground.

Archons and Ossamer are still stuck in airspace, and can't attack the tower even if fired upon. They only get to fight things that enter airspace.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Utoryo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:50 am

Going directly to the dungeon is interesting because Jetstone will probably fortify the entry to the tower first rather than directly assault the courtyard - and you can go directly from the courtyard to the dungeon (where Jetstone presumably has no or very few troops) where the army will also be safe from archer fire. So it's definitively the best way to stall until Parson arrives even after the Portal Room is secure.

Now the one mistake Tramennis could do is order his father to flee the city through the tower->dungeon->tunnels->exit path rather than shoot down the archons & Ossomer and flee through the airspace. But that might actually be his only choice if Slately literally cannot be put on a mount and they are both unaware of the Jetpack (and it's not even certain Slately could use it either way). In that case it would be very... interesting if Parson requested a parley with Tramennis with Slately as a bargaining point instead of croaking him and ending Jetstone. Wanda's reaction to that would be hilarious to watch. I obviously don't think it's very likely though.

Another option (which I still like quite a lot) is that Ossomer does turn to Jetstone. I wonder if his heir status would be restored then? That would be quite something. And it remains to be seen happens to Parson in the Magic Kingdom (Janis & Marie + Thinkamancers?)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Megaduck » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:56 am

I do notice that Trem now has the Unspoken Plan Guarantee while we know Parsons plan.

I have a bad feeling about this.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby kagato23 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:12 am

Catherine_Puce wrote:
danhaas wrote:O snap!

So they can move through zones out of turn, and the portal is in their dungeon. Awesome.


From what we know they cannot, this is why they need the failing trick to reach the courtyard. I think this is because they are under attack. If range attack would be protected by the zone rule. It would be simple to always win against melee unit. Just wait your turn and shoot them from the other hex. By attacking Jetstone allowed the enemy to launch a counter attack.

Ça risque de leur être mortel.

S.P.P.


Actually, I think that works under most circumstances. You can counter range with range of your own, at least when in an attacking city. Firing across a hex on your own turn though when not attacking a city probably isn't very productive: hex's are large enough that off-turn units could find cover and/or move far enough away that a lot of arrows would be wasted. If being attacked was all you needed to launch a counter attack, nobody would have assumed the battle was won when Kingsworld went into effect, the purple and red dwagons could have still attacked the tower, which was the original plan to begin with. The courtyard below would not have been assumed to be safe.

Without the falling rule, they were sitting ducks, because moving between zones or into the garrison costs move. But once your in the garrison (which GK now is) there's no move to go between garrizon subzones once you have complete control of a given zone. Otherwise, somebody would tell parson his plan could easily fail if he waits till the arrows stopped, and Trem would probably not even have have started the arrow rain, it'd have been better for him to clog and fortify his entryways and reposition what archers he could. Rather, he see's what is happening and is hoping to take out as many units as he can with the arrow spam (even if he doesn't take down Wanda, Jetstone knows decrypted units can be dusted permanently, so he's still removing some units from the equation, and as it seem he has a plan, probably knowing that buys him planning/movement time till the arrows are out.)

oslecamo2 wrote:Gotta LOVE Trem's schyzophrenia.

Some minutes ago:
-Hey, let's parley instead of killing them all! What's the worst that could happen?

Now:
-Me, tempting the titans? How dare you insinuate such a thing?


I think it's more of a retort than sarcasm or shifting: allowing for the worst case scinario to even be a possibility if preventable during a risky situation is tempting fate far more then simply saying "it wont happen" when things were looking good
Portal X Parson OTP!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby boegiboe » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:26 am

I feel really bad for Ossomer. He's only been decrypted for, what, maybe an hour? So he still loves his father and brother, just like Ansom still does, but Ossomer doesn't have the well-trodden dogma of Toolism to support him. Yes, he feels really loyal to Wanda, but he was also extremely honor-bound. Everything in his mind is telling him he's on the wrong side, and yet his Duty is magically bound to GK.

He might become so overwhelmed that he disbands in some catastrophic way. It would be a good come-uppance for Wanda, who has really become way too full of herself.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby elrolfe » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:06 am

Utoryo wrote:Now the one mistake Tramennis could do is order his father to flee the city through the tower->dungeon->tunnels->exit path rather than shoot down the archons & Ossomer and flee through the airspace.


Book 2 - Text 25 wrote:Spacerock had dungeons, but no tunnel zone at all. Instead, it had an unusually ornate and well-defended Garrison.


There's no way out of the city through the dungeon. Tram's only options appear to be getting Slately out through the Garrison or through the airspace. Neither option seems good though. I gleefully await seeing what I've overlooked!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:12 am

I find it interesting that Trem doesn't seem terribly worried about Wanda being on the ground with the JS bodies; he calls Slately "our single point of vulnerability," as if he still thinks he can win now. Is he underestimating her, or have we overestimated her?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Utoryo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:21 am

elrolfe wrote:There's no way out of the city through the dungeon. Tram's only options appear to be getting Slately out through the Garrison or through the airspace. Neither option seems good though. I gleefully await seeing what I've overlooked!
Ah yes, I forgot about that, thanks! :) Makes me wonder what's going to happen to Ossomer and the Archons then. Presumably they would need to croak Ossomer to let Slately pass, which is the perfect time for him to turn or at least show regret and/or shame.

On Wanda: the real question is how many troops did JS lose in the courtyard? If it's only 20-25%, that's still 1vs3. If Jetstone can prevent Wanda from decrypting most of the troops they lose after that (e.g. pick up or burn the bodies? Ask Charlie to hire a Croakamancer for them from the Magic Kingdom to uncroak the corpses before Wanda can decrypt? Try overwhelming force with heavies to constantly gain ground so the bodies are never close enough to Wanda?) then it's certainly not obvious how GK can win and they'll really need Parson's bonus and probably a few more tricks.

Of course, we don't know that GK will actually win. Maybe Parson/Wanda/Jack will have to flee back through the MK. Very unlikely scenario but not strictly impossible.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby elrolfe » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:32 am

WaterMonkey314 wrote:I find it interesting that Trem doesn't seem terribly worried about Wanda being on the ground with the JS bodies; he calls Slately "our single point of vulnerability," as if he still thinks he can win now. Is he underestimating her, or have we overestimated her?


I think Tram is VERY worried about Wanda. From a tactical standpoint, he knows they are in very serious trouble. When he says Slately is their single point of vulnerability, he's talking strategically, not tactically. From a strategic standpoint, if Slately survives then the side can be rebuilt. If Slately falls though, the entire side falls with him. So Tram wasn't discounting Wanda or the danger she represents. He was looking at the long term survivability of the Jetstone side.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby ToolRalph » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:35 am

OK, I think I understand that the KING WORLD spell basically deprived Wanda's troops of any more move, which prevents them from entering the city hex since airspace is a separate hex. Otherwise, they are free to attack and move within their current hex as they see fit. Presumably, they could have attempted to fly back out of range of the archers (since the condition of the parley was that they move into range), and as we have seen the yellows can bomb any particular part of the city hex they like. The food-harvest / heavy promotion trick essentially gave them one free move from airspace to the city hex.

Apparently no dragons have any form of ranged attack equivalent to archery. Presumably the archers in the tower have an essentially unlimited supply of arrows, as opposed to the archers near Expository Bridge who only had what they could carry, thus necessitating the dittomancer.

But help me out with this one: if it's Jetstone's turn, then all Jetstone units have fresh move. Why can't the Jetstone troops at Expository Bridge simply move into the city hex and assist with its defense? One might think that Parson has to move quickly before those troops return, but we've already established that time flows differently in different hexes. Is it because the Jetstone troops don't get to use their move to enter a hex until all battles in that hex are resolved? It would seem odd if Jetstone's troops were prohibited from moving during their own turn because of the actions of enemy units.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby ZevGun » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:38 am

This may have been discussed before, but is Sizemore supposed to follow Parson into Jetstone?
If Wanda's new order is to secure the Portal Room, then Sizemore isn't needed to bring/create any golems to help Parson surprise anyone guarding the portal.

After he creates the tunnel for Parson his options are:
-follow Parson to Jetstone
-retreat back to GK
-stick around in the MK and face the backlash of Parson's use of the portals

I'm kinda hoping for the second one, because I'm worried that someone's going to die during this battle and I don't want it to be him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Beeskee » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:46 am

O SNAP!

Lol!


"Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?"

Erfworld needs a movie theater, and a copy of Star Wars. :D


Move: Once GK was trapped with 0 move, they were screwed. They could reposition their units but the Jetstone archers would always be able to hit them, they would just have to be deployed to the tower or walls as necessary. But GK would always be able to be hit, and wouldn't be able to leave until it was their turn again. And since it's no longer GK's turn, their dwagons can't shoot across zone or hex borders anymore. The only attack they could do was yellow dwagon crap, since things that fall keep falling rather than stopping at a zone border.
Last edited by Beeskee on Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Trotsky » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:55 am

ToolRalph wrote:But help me out with this one: if it's Jetstone's turn, then all Jetstone units have fresh move. Why can't the Jetstone troops at Expository Bridge simply move into the city hex and assist with its defense? One might think that Parson has to move quickly before those troops return, but we've already established that time flows differently in different hexes. Is it because the Jetstone troops don't get to use their move to enter a hex until all battles in that hex are resolved? It would seem odd if Jetstone's troops were prohibited from moving during their own turn because of the actions of enemy units.


They HAVE returned to the city. Tramennis himself was at Expository Bridge and he certainly did not return all by his lonesome.
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DoctorJest, if I weren't referentially married to my sig I'd use that instead.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby badninja » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:07 pm

Wow can Jetstone catch a break soon this has become a little to one sided? Since the parlay it has been steady GK and nothing from Charlie, who has forces there. I wonder if Tram will realize this and strike a deal? I liked how Tram called his farther out for even tempting the titans more with that great line from Star Wars. Good update all around.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby ToolRalph » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:20 pm

They HAVE returned to the city. Tramennis himself was at Expository Bridge and he certainly did not return all by his lonesome.


/foreheadslap

Duh. Never mind me.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Lamech » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:20 pm

Apparently no dragons have any form of ranged attack equivalent to archery. Presumably the archers in the tower have an essentially unlimited supply of arrows, as opposed to the archers near Expository Bridge who only had what they could carry, thus necessitating the dittomancer.
Umm... No. Also no. The dwagons do have ranged attacks. But ranged attacks don't cross hexes (or zones of cities you don't control) off-turn. Fire, lighting, smoke, gum, sonic blasts and green gas all stop and only cwap works because it falls, (actually IIRC the gas sinks and I think bubbles would fall too.) So if it was GK's turn they could obliterate the archers and tower, but right now they can't fire across the zones.

Nor do the archers have limitless arrows. Tram was worried about conserving arrows when he attacked the GK ground forces. They only have a limited number. Hmm... you if Jack was super-badass the best move would have been to leave all the GK units floating in mid-air while Jetstone wastes its arrows; although that would probably have been found out. :(
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby the_tick_rules » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:23 pm

Now we know where their portal is. Oh and kudos on the star wars pun my friend.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby elrolfe » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:26 pm

badninja wrote:Since the parlay it has been steady GK and nothing from Charlie, who has forces there.


I'm confused. Did I miss something? I didn't think Charlie had units at Spacerock. Slately was very adamant that no member of the coalition have anything to do with Charlie, and was quite miffed with Tram for wanting to talk to Charlie. Jillian had an arrangement with Charlie that she seems to have backed out on and Sammy had to bend to Charlie's will and was wiped out. There may be one or two of the archons that were shadowing Sammy, but other than that, I can't see that there are any Charlie units in the battle space. What am I missing?
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