Book 2 – Page 52

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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby oslecamo2 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:27 pm

kagato23 wrote:I think it's more of a retort than sarcasm or shifting: allowing for the worst case scinario to even be a possibility if preventable during a risky situation is tempting fate far more then simply saying "it wont happen" when things were looking good

What's exactly the diference between then and now? Trems has still been doing all the wrong decisions untill this update.

He could've rushed his troops to take down Wanda once she hit the ground. Instead he orders an evacuation so Jack has room to maneuver.
He could've at least evacuated in an orderly fashion. Instead orders the archers to shoot down his own troops, providing even more bodies for GK and killing the only warlord with good sense he had left (Duke Atrium).

Now Trems finally realizes he's royally booped, and the only thing he can acomplish is saving his father, because Wanda is about to decrypt an army to kick his ass. Trems finally started planning for the worst case scenario, instead of "What's the worst that could happen?". Better late than never.

badninja wrote:Wow can Jetstone catch a break soon this has become a little to one sided? Since the parlay it has been steady GK and nothing from Charlie, who has forces there. I wonder if Tram will realize this and strike a deal?

Forces? What forces? A couple archons maybe (the ones captured by Haggar), low on juice and severly hurt. Jillian legged it. Charlie can't do much for Jetstone right now.

But fear not! It seems like Trems has switched again from idiot mode (HERP Kill my own troops so they can't kill Wanda DERP) to tactical genius mode (I've booped the situation beyond hope, but our side will endure if the king survives. Main priority: get king to safe place.). So hopefully GK won't be on "Oh, we wouldn't be so lucky as the enemy plays right into our hands!" mode anymore.

badninja wrote:I liked how Tram called his farther out for even tempting the titans more with that great line from Star Wars.


Again, I see it as self-sarcasm, as Trems has just been provoking the Titans for the last updates by severly understimating the chief warlord of a side with two holy arkentools.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby CaptC » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:30 pm

Of course, by attacking into the courtyard, Parson has split his forces. That opens up opportunities for Jetstone. If I was Trem, I'd clear out the GK fliers and then launch a selective assassination attack with my own fliers against Wanda. It clears out Slately's escape route, gives Ossamer a chance for a truly tragic death scene (dying without the chance to fight back, betrayed by his family and his new side), and gives Jetstone a chance to redeem this whole mess if they actually get Wanda.

Of course, the attack on Wanda will fail - Parson's plan foreshadows this. As Jetstone shifts fire onto the GK fliers, Wanda will take this as the signal to mass decrypt and then head to the dungeons. That gives us a daring escape scene, as Wanda makes it into the dungeons just ahead of a bunch of unipegataurs with blood in their eyes.

Dramatically, it redeems Trem as a viable opponent for Parson, and makes this seem like a battle between equal adversaries rather than a GK roflstomp.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Beeskee » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:33 pm

I don't see Tram as an idiot. Maybe inexperienced in general and definitely out of practice. He can't see everything we can tho, and with Parson literally bending or breaking the 'rules' of Erfworld (both social rules and game/world rules) even the best leader would seem like an idiot. Ansom made similar mistakes when he faced Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby suryasm » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:45 pm

Well, this update explains how Sylvia had enough time to go ten times through her poem while pinned under the dwagon. Parson and Wanda are waiting for the arrows to stop falling before going for the money shot. Probably took a while.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Tubal-Cain » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:16 pm

I just noticed the Power Symbol on the clasp...thing on Parson's cloak. :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:17 pm

And things are marching smoothly onwards, cunning is afoot ... me likey!

King Mir wrote:*delurk*

Looks like it's time for Tramennis to have things turn in his favor now. We weren't told Parson's plan, so it worked. Now we are told, and arn't told Tramennis's plan, so that will work. It will work up until Parson realizes a change of plans is in order. Then we'll see.

PS. I wonder if people will say that parson will hold the idiot ball.


You said what I wanted to comment. Now, in fact, we don't know exactly what Parson plans either, but we have a pretty good sketch of them.

Then again, we sorta know what Trem wants to do- get Slately out. The exact mechanics of it (flying mount? tunnels? jetpack?) are a bit less interesting for now. What I do wonder is whether Trem will think of capturing Parson (or trying to; probably Sizemore will be more in danger of that). Because I forgot whether Trem knows about the portal-passing ability of Parson, and conceivably he could be able to put 2 and Parson together and realize that it adds up to a possible 'sploit.*

And if Trem did that it would sure shut up the IB discussion for a while.

And you know what, someone should do a fanart of the Idiot Ball. It's such an oft mentioned character in these forums that it just has to pop into existence.

Nows7 wrote:If ossmar wasn't such a Douche (with a capital "D") I'd feel sorry for him, Trem's parting word had to have hurt.


O SNAP.

Poor Ossomer. Nobody wuvs him. And why is that? So far he's shown to be nothing peculiarly rotten anyway, and there's even some promise of an interesting char development (since he's not getting the Toolism vibe).

EDIT:

So my guess- I think JS has a few fliers. Aren't Orlies and Unipegtaurs such? Probably rules of attacking- I mean defending- off-turn would allow an airborne Slately to breeze past any remaining GK air presence near Spacerock. Since his stack doesn't engage those of GK, maybe those won't be able to fight back either.

If not, then no Dwagons seem left in the airspace; and Archons, while awesome in many regards, probably won't survive long if Archers target them. Or something.

So jetpack or no, Slately's easily out. Next.

IF Trem would expect something out of the Portal room, it would be nice to leave some surprises for intruders there. Whoever those intruders turn out to be (because strictly speaking, Trem might suspect Parson could, but there's no reason to suspect Parson will go through the Portal).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Unclever title » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:24 pm

"Hot damn, okay!"

Is this the first time Parson swore in Book II? I wouldn't put it past me to completely miss it having happened already.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Decorus » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:42 pm

So we now know why Wanda hasn't done a Mass Decryption, Parson ordered her to wait to maximize gains while minimizing losses.
Charlie is not going to do anything that would show him directly aiding the RCC against Parson so no military aid from Charlie.
Parson is about to learn about 2 Magic Kingdom groups who directly want to aid him.
Sizemore won't get in trouble as Janis + Thinkamancers want Parson to come into MK. The Thinkamancers will likely keep the other Mages from discovering Parson's presence in MK and his use of another Kingdom's portal. I'm hoping Tram turns along with Ace after meeting Parson, because I don't want either to end up Decrypted.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby effataigus » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:50 pm

elrolfe wrote:
badninja wrote:Since the parlay it has been steady GK and nothing from Charlie, who has forces there.


I'm confused. Did I miss something? I didn't think Charlie had units at Spacerock.


The text update with the picture of Jillian in the trees mentioned that Charlescomm has "significant units in the battlespace." This has been interpreted in several ways, but, regardless, these units should be off-turn and, unless perfectly veiled, not in the Spacerock hex and therefore mostly irrelevant... at least until the start of Charlescomm's next turn (which comes before GK's next).
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Aren't Orlies and Unipegtaurs such? Probably rules of attacking- I mean defending- off-turn would allow an airborne Slately to breeze past any remaining GK air presence near Spacerock. Since his stack doesn't engage those of GK, maybe those won't be able to fight back either.


The theory that off-turn units can't attack things in the same hex and city zone keeps popping up. Is there any evidence to support this? I can't think of any. I was under the impression that you needed a warlord present to not be *forced* to attack. Here's an example of an off-turn unit attacking an unaggressive on-turn unit: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/095.jpg. Perhaps Slately could rely upon either zone mechanics or the lack of a warlord to waltz by the fliers... but he'd be in the same zone and there'd be a warlord there.

Oh, also, Parson specifically ordered the wounded dwagons over the lake not to attack Jillian until she did something hostile. Would have been a moot point if they had to wait for her to attack first!

Right... and also Vinnie's filling the dwagon's faces with bats comment. Again, not necessary if they could just fly by the dwagons.

Aye, unipegs are mountable fliers - saw Tram relay them to Dhrystone - but I'd keep on the ground if I were Slately... at least until those archons are dusted.

OH! And awesome update! Where are my priorities these days...?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Hatu » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:55 pm

CaptC wrote:Of course, by attacking into the courtyard, Parson has split his forces. That opens up opportunities for Jetstone. If I was Trem, I'd clear out the GK fliers and then launch a selective assassination attack with my own fliers against Wanda. It clears out Slately's escape route, gives Ossamer a chance for a truly tragic death scene (dying without the chance to fight back, betrayed by his family and his new side), and gives Jetstone a chance to redeem this whole mess if they actually get Wanda.


Yes, this seems like the best tactic available (based on how I understand combat at the moment). It has some potential snags though, namely the need to keep Wanda pinned down while you kill the Archons et al. No idea how practical that is.

But I do have to wonder what the point of the arrow bombardment is, given that so many of Jetstone's troops have been easily able to weather it. If a single dwagon (alive or dead) can completely protect someone, why bother shooting rather than sending in ground troops to actually accomplish something?

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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby GaryThunder » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:57 pm

What's exactly the diference between then and now? Trems has still been doing all the wrong decisions untill this update.

He could've rushed his troops to take down Wanda once she hit the ground. Instead he orders an evacuation so Jack has room to maneuver.
He could've at least evacuated in an orderly fashion. Instead orders the archers to shoot down his own troops, providing even more bodies for GK and killing the only warlord with good sense he had left (Duke Atrium).

Now Trems finally realizes he's royally booped, and the only thing he can acomplish is saving his father, because Wanda is about to decrypt an army to kick his ass. Trems finally started planning for the worst case scenario, instead of "What's the worst that could happen?". Better late than never.


Incorrect. He ordered the evacuation before Wanda fell, so that order can't be judged in the current situation. He didn't order the archers to shoot down his own troops, he was trying to kill Wanda with the best weapon he had. Parson tricked him into evacuating by crapping on the Atrium specifically so that the ground would be more clear when Wanda took her dive. That's not Tramennis being stupid, that's him falling for a trap he couldn't possibly have seen coming.

Tramennis may not be the perfect leader, but for boop's sake, stop picking on him so. Bear in mind he's had like two minutes since the S-bombs started falling to plan and maneuver. He's working under ridiculous time constraints, while at the same time being forced to comprehend a situation that he didn't so much as think was possible yesterday.

Forces? What forces? A couple archons maybe (the ones captured by Haggar), low on juice and severly hurt. Jillian legged it. Charlie can't do much for Jetstone right now.


Iiiiiii don't know about that. From one of the earliest text updates of Book II: "Charlie didn't want either side knowing he had significant forces in the battlespace." That suggests to me that he's got more going on in there than we know about. Of course, since it isn't his turn and he clearly has no Archons in the city itself, I don't know how useful he could make himself, even if he did have a force of Archons standing by.

So my guess- I think JS has a few fliers. Aren't Orlies and Unipegtaurs such? Probably rules of attacking- I mean defending- off-turn would allow an airborne Slately to breeze past any remaining GK air presence near Spacerock. Since his stack doesn't engage those of GK, maybe those won't be able to fight back either.

If not, then no Dwagons seem left in the airspace; and Archons, while awesome in many regards, probably won't survive long if Archers target them. Or something.


We know for a fact that units in another city's airspace off-turn can attack units of that city if they enter the airspace. That's how Wanda got shot down when she was trying to kill Ansom on the wall and recover the Arkenpliers. As long as the Archons are in the airspace, they can hit anything that takes off. Tramennis might possibly use the archers or the tower to clear the air of Archons before he sends Slately on his way with the jetpack/a unipegataur mount, but it seems like he really, really needs those archers and casters for repelling Wanda's incursion and isn't going to use them up hitting units that can't actively shoot back at him. And if Tramennis only spares a few archers/casters to fire on the Archons, it's probably a safe bet that they have enough Foolamancy among them to keep themselves alive under only minor attack.

That does make me wonder how he's going to get Slately out of the city in any respect. He can't leave out the front gates as that would entail crossing the Atrium, and Jetstone has no tunnel zone. Even if Tramennis were able to clear the airspace, unless Jetstone has another city within one turn's move, Slately will leave and be forced to end turn in the field, where GK or any number of other sides are free to take a shot at him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:58 pm

I've got a very pleasant tingly feeling.

It might be excitement.

Maybe it's the cough medication and caffeine.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby atalex » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:00 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:I find it interesting that Trem doesn't seem terribly worried about Wanda being on the ground with the JS bodies; he calls Slately "our single point of vulnerability," as if he still thinks he can win now. Is he underestimating her, or have we overestimated her?



Trem can still win -- He's gone from complete command of the situation to at best an even fight and at worst a serious undergod, but he hasn't lost yet. The "single point of vulnerability" refers to the fact that croaking Slately is the easiest victory condition for GK. If Slately is evacuated, then GK has to fight its way through and, IIRC, completely dominate 2 of the 3 zones.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby effataigus » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:06 pm

GaryThunder wrote:We know for a fact that units in another city's airspace off-turn can attack units of that city if they enter the airspace. That's how Wanda got shot down when she was trying to kill Ansom on the wall and recover the Arkenpliers. As long as the Archons are in the airspace, they can hit anything that takes off.

IIRC, those archons actually were on turn as of when they started shooting up the place. I believe their alliance with JS put them on turn with the RCCI, but they were just going to have to wait until their turn started to get any move (and cross zones).

... but yes, Parson DID still get Charlie's blessing even back when Charlescomm was off turn, so the strong implication is, again, that off-turn units may still batter on turn units that get up in their business.

From Word of the Titans:
Why could the Archons cast the DDR spell? They were part of the Coalition and it was now technically their turn. But they could not move because all of Charlescomm's units' move went to zero when Charlie ended turn. Move and hits are restored to full at the beginning of a side's turn, and (re)forming an alliance does not count as starting a new turn.


Oh, and JINX!!!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Kaveman26 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:15 pm

someone mentioned js has no tunnel system only a dungeon system. I think parson mentioned something about size.ore tunneling be eath js already. JS may have a tunnel system they don't know about
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Beeskee » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:18 pm

Sizemore will be tunneling from one portal to another, within the Magic Kingdom.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:23 pm

effataigus wrote:the strong implication is, again, that off-turn units may still batter on turn units that get up in their business.


Convincing case (in your previous post). However, my take on it is that whatever's left in the air, belonging to GK, has even less chance of survival now if JS chooses to unleash the AA artillery still available. As well as the JS fliers, which have no reason to be put on hold now. ("No more parley attempts. Let's croak each other!")

So by my estimation, Trem might actually win. That "win" may include the loss of Spacerock, however Trem is in a very good position to deny Parson the killing of Slately.

Therefore I'm not very worried about that yet; in the sense that I expect Parson to come up with one more trick to seal the deal.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby fjolnir » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:30 pm

I think the references to "significant forces in the battlespace" by charlescomm refers to: Queen Jillian's Charlie sponsored Faq force and the various recon units watching Hagar and some of the others...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby ohnoz » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:40 pm

Shouldn't it be "Hot bleep, okay!"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Beeskee » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:00 pm

Damn (and crap) aren't considered curses by Erfworld, I don't think. Could have sworn Parson said "damn" in book 1. He cursed at the end and wasn't censored, but he hasn't cursed (in-comic) since.
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