Book 2 – Page 52

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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Squishalot » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:30 am

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -01-06.jpg

I count 21 in the first frame, organised in two V stacks of 8, and a V stack of 5.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Oberon » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:47 am

fjolnir wrote:He's certainly not holding the idiot ball, if anyone is holding that particular item it's most assuredly Slately, the king of hubris.

Trem clearly sees the writing on the wall, and good to see he's not above retorts even when the chips are down.
No, he certainly is no longer holding the idiot ball. And he seems to have fully accepted the dossier on Parson. Which makes me wonder why he talked himself into believing that Charlie was lying to him about the peril he was in and handed himself the idiot ball earlier. But I'm glad to see him continue to react correctly and decisively.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Smoker » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:14 am

Tramennis must be a very difficult character to write. He's supposed to be smart, but not too smart (for a believable Erfworlder), and he's supposed to flippant, but still effective.

I like the theory that his failings (if any) were a product of an established character flaw: he just couldn't resist the chance to be a smart-ass to Ossomer. Just like he didn't take the discussions at the bridge seriously - even going so far as to interrupt his brother, who was in charge at the time ("used how?") and trying to be all serious and stuff. Now that discussion was a foregone conclusion, so he could afford to act how he did. Now that things are no longer certain, he's dropped his flippancy and is getting down to business.

I'm impressed with how its all working out.

Tram's pretty much my fave character.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby John Campbell » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:11 am

I'm not sure about Parson's plan here. It seems to me that it would be a better idea to have Wanda decrypt everything that's down right now and use that force to punch out of the courtyard, collecting new recruits and re-upping GK's until-recently-living as they become available, rather than waiting until the arrows run out and decrypting everything in one fell swoop.

Doing it now would expose the newly decrypted to arrow bombardment for a while, but only until they fight their way out of the exposed courtyard through still-disorganized defenders. Waiting until the archers shoot themselves dry keeps those arrows from being used on the newly decrypted, but it risks permanent death for GK's already-decrypted units and wastes 1ups on their still-living units, and it gives Jetstone time to get over their surprise and organize a defense of the city. And it risks Wanda, without whom GK's whole expeditionary force is completely booped. She may think she's protected by Fate, but in Parson's shoes, "reasonably secure" isn't the kind of guarantee I'd want against her possibly catching a stray arrow or two.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Smoker » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:27 am

John Campbell wrote:I'm not sure about Parson's plan here. It seems to me that it would be a better idea to have Wanda decrypt everything that's down right now and use that force to punch out of the courtyard, collecting new recruits and re-upping GK's until-recently-living as they become available, rather than waiting until the arrows run out and decrypting everything in one fell swoop.

Doing it now would expose the newly decrypted to arrow bombardment for a while, but only until they fight their way out of the exposed courtyard through still-disorganized defenders. Waiting until the archers shoot themselves dry keeps those arrows from being used on the newly decrypted, but it risks permanent death for GK's already-decrypted units and wastes 1ups on their still-living units, and it gives Jetstone time to get over their surprise and organize a defense of the city. And it risks Wanda, without whom GK's whole expeditionary force is completely booped. She may think she's protected by Fate, but in Parson's shoes, "reasonably secure" isn't the kind of guarantee I'd want against her possibly catching a stray arrow or two.


Its a tough call, hey.

I'm assuming that in order to decrypt the courtyard Wanda will need to walk around a bit, so waiting for the arrowstorm to pass probably puts her in less danger. It also means the arrows run dry, so all those lovely archery units become close to useless with empty quivers. Hey dittomancer! Whats two times zero?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby joosy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:10 am

atalex wrote:I suspect that targeting the archons and Oss will be his next move. He can keep the archers focused on the atrium for as long as he can (or as long as it takes to enact whatever Hail Mary he intends to through) and send the unipegataurs after the archons, buffed by tower defenses and dittomancer buffs. He might even be able to take all of them out with just tower defenses. Do we know how many archons are in the air right now?


I think about 20 or so. With Ossomer's bonus and their limited foolamancy and pulling back to hover over the outer walls, they may be able to avoid the Tower Defenses. In any case, I anticipate a panic amongst the remaining nobles as not all of them will be able to fit on the nine unipegataurs (or 18 if the dittomancer can duplicate them). I imagine they will use the Tower defenses to punch a hole or keep Ossomer and the Archons at bay whilst the uni's along with all high value units that are not useful at the defenses escape the city. Trem will stay behind until the last possible moment and we will hopefully get to see Chekhov's jetpack in action.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby boegiboe » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:17 am

I think the mustachioed unipegataur is Freddie Mercury.
Image
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Willowleafs » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:27 am

Either Mercury or this here guy, I'd wager:

Image

Tom Selleck, as Magnum P.I.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby boegiboe » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:46 am

Yeah, I thought of Selleck, but the shape of the mustache is more like Mercury's. Plus, his eyebrow-raise in the O SNAP frame seems to indicate a special love of the flamboyant. Selleck has a tenuous claim on gayness from his supporting role in the 1997 "In & Out," but not the kind of flaming that Mercury was known for.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby CaptC » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:24 pm

John Campbell wrote:I'm not sure about Parson's plan here. It seems to me that it would be a better idea to have Wanda decrypt everything that's down right now and use that force to punch out of the courtyard, collecting new recruits and re-upping GK's until-recently-living as they become available, rather than waiting until the arrows run out and decrypting everything in one fell swoop.


The archers only get so many shots. You don't want those shots killing decrypted, you want those shots killing things you can raise. Pulling the decrypted out of the ground now, means the archer's shots are actually effective. Parson wants those shots wasted on the ground or on currently living forces.

And Parson doesn't want Wanda breaking out towards more enemy troops. Parson wants his forces to insure he has a safe path to Jetstone, so he is not ineffectively killed by whatever guards Jetstone has at the portal.

The worst flaw with Parson's current plan is that heavies can't enter the dungeons. (Or was that just tunnels? Not sure.) Poor dwagons get left behind again.
Last edited by CaptC on Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:55 pm

I think the reason it's so important for Parson to link up with Wanda in person is because he has one critical element left in his plan to reveal, and he did not feel comfortable revealing it over thinkagram or eyebook due to possible eavesdropping by Charlie. Ergo, reveal it in person.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby joosy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:57 pm

CaptC wrote:The worst flaw with Parson's current plan is that heavies can't enter the dungeons. (Or was that just tunnels? Not sure.) Poor dwagons get left behind again.

Most heavies can't enter the dungeons (spidews, heavy twolls and heavy hobgobwins being exceptions apparently). However the purple and red dwagons can be used as seige against the tower if they need to raze it. Also, the dwagons in the courtyard can keep the Jetstone forces outside of the Courtyard at bay. Plus any breath weapons can be used assuming the dwagons can stick their heads in the doors, crawl up the side of the tower and attack any open windows or even the parapet if they can get that far (they can't fly until their turn, or course)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby effataigus » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:08 pm

joosy wrote:
CaptC wrote:The worst flaw with Parson's current plan is that heavies can't enter the dungeons. (Or was that just tunnels? Not sure.) Poor dwagons get left behind again.

Most heavies can't enter the dungeons (spidews, heavy twolls and heavy hobgobwins being exceptions apparently). However the purple and red dwagons can be used as seige against the tower if they need to raze it. Also, the dwagons in the courtyard can keep the Jetstone forces outside of the Courtyard at bay. Plus any breath weapons can be used assuming the dwagons can stick their heads in the doors, crawl up the side of the tower and attack any open windows or even the parapet if they can get that far (they can't fly until their turn, or course)


I'm not disagreeing, but I can't remember where we found out that heavies can't enter the dungeons or tunnels... anyone remember where this was in the comic, if it was?

Assuming this is stated in comic, does it ever state that spidews, heavy twolls, and heavy hobgobwins are an exception to this rule? I suppose we have seen spidews descend into the dungeon here: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/111.jpg but I wouldn't be confident saying that those hobgobwins had been promoted to "heavy."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby danhaas » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:10 pm

A possible plan for Trem would be to clear JS airspace, evacuate Slately, do some damage to Wanda with his flyers if that's possible (flyers can do selective engagement on terrestrial units http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F049.jpg). If Wanda leaves the atrium or his flyers won't do the job, just end the turn. He can move his units freely inside the city during any other's turn, cast, etc, so he won't be hindered in any way. And then guess who are getting the next turns? Jillian+Transylvito and then CharlesComm, and only then GK. http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Turn

There can't be combat during the night. And if Parson goes into JS, Charlie and possibly Transylvito+Jillian can be easily convinced to join the decapitation strike. Jillian has move to return to JS and Charlie... we don't know much about him or his units' deployment, but the least he can do is pour money into JS+Transylvito+Jillian and in return recieve the spoils (ie Parson, perhaps the plyers).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby CaptC » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:23 pm

Jillian must have been allied with Jetstone, not Transylvito. Otherwise, leaving to go raze enemy cities would not have happened. If Jetstone ends turn, Jillian's move will go to zero. If Jillian has the move to return, she must do so before Jetstone ends turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby joosy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:23 pm

effataigus wrote:
joosy wrote:
CaptC wrote:The worst flaw with Parson's current plan is that heavies can't enter the dungeons. (Or was that just tunnels? Not sure.) Poor dwagons get left behind again.

Most heavies can't enter the dungeons (spidews, heavy twolls and heavy hobgobwins being exceptions apparently). However the purple and red dwagons can be used as seige against the tower if they need to raze it. Also, the dwagons in the courtyard can keep the Jetstone forces outside of the Courtyard at bay. Plus any breath weapons can be used assuming the dwagons can stick their heads in the doors, crawl up the side of the tower and attack any open windows or even the parapet if they can get that far (they can't fly until their turn, or course)


I'm not disagreeing, but I can't remember where we found out that heavies can't enter the dungeons or tunnels... anyone remember where this was in the comic, if it was?

Assuming this is stated in comic, does it ever state that spidews, heavy twolls, and heavy hobgobwins are an exception to this rule? I suppose we have seen spidews descend into the dungeon here: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/111.jpg but I wouldn't be confident saying that those hobgobwins had been promoted to "heavy."


http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE002_ParsonNewOffice_500.jpg

"The old city had lacked a front gate, a configuration which gave extra strength to the outer walls and avoided a specific weak point. The trade-off was that they'd had to deploy all of their non-fliers out through the tunnels. That was why their only heavy units were Spidews and Dwagons."

I believe based on visual depictions that it is not the 'state' of being a heavy but rather the size of the heavy that matters. We saw heavy units like Sourmanders enter the GK tunnels, for example. Based on that I assume that Heavy designated hobgobwins can enter the tunnels as well (just watch out for any low ceilings I guess).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:24 pm

Sygerrik wrote:Man, I want Ace Hardware to turn so badly. Him and Cubbins are the only Jetstone characters I would not be happy to see dusted, though I doubt Cubbins is going to make it.


I expect that Cubbins will soon be in a very sticky situation.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby joosy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:25 pm

CaptC wrote:Jillian must have been allied with Jetstone, not Transylvito. Otherwise, leaving to go raze enemy cities would not have happened. If Jetstone ends turn, Jillian's move will go to zero. If Jillian has the move to return, she must do so before Jetstone ends turn.


I believe that for this battle, Transylvito and Faq are aligned with Jetstone thus sharing Jetstone's turn. Evidence of this is when Jetstone's turn started so did Transylvito's.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby HandofShadows » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:26 pm

Why do I get the impression Parson is going to win in part because he does something totaly unexpected (like GK forces going for the Portal) and it's going to catch everyone off guard? Trem is thinking about one thing and probably cannot concive of Parson coming through the portal. Great page!

Oh I notice someone said that the Royals would never attack under a flag of truth. We actaully see them doing this in one of the summer stories (Just in case no one else mentioned it).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 52

Postby danhaas » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:26 pm

dirocyn wrote:
danhaas wrote:O snap!

So they can move through zones out of turn, and the portal is in their dungeon. Awesome.



It's not because they're under attack, it's because they've already successfully crossed into the garrison. Atrium, dungeon and tower are all sub-zones of garrison, we have this directly from Tram in a text update. No zone more zone barriers to cross, now that they're on the ground.

Archons and Ossamer are still stuck in airspace, and can't attack the tower even if fired upon. They only get to fight things that enter airspace.


Ty for the correction. Courtyard, tower and dungeon are sub-zones of the garrison. So this update indicates that enemy units CAN attack a different sub-zone during the defendant's turn. The klog http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F116a.jpg mentioned it, but it didn't say anything specifically about off-turn attacks.
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