Book 2 – Page 53

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:49 pm

You are correct that conventional tactics are not likely to work, which is why Tramennis is far more likely to use asymmetric tactics, which is far more viable with GK 'storming the castle.' Small units CAN effectively engage larger units, with the dual outcomes of a) slowing down an advance, as additional measures must be taken to secure the column, and b) inflicting casualties.

Think of a team of soldiers clearing a building in an Iraqi/Afghani city: It takes a decent sized team to enter, clear and secure a building. Even one or two enemies can make that process considerably more difficult and time-consuming. The entry team cannot advance without ensuring that each room, each closet, each stairwell, each and every potential hiding spot is cleared. Tramennis can use this absolute necessity to his advantage.

Edit: The larger the building (in this case a huge tower), the more troops and more time are required to conduct the sweep. From what we have seen of the interior of the Tower, it will take GK forces a significant amount of time to clear each room and corridor on each floor.


The difference here is that a team of soldiers clearing a building in an Iraqi city have an interest in keeping the building, and the city, intact. GK does not. Now that their purples and reds are on the ground, they can level the whole city building by building, never having to waste time or units in clearing out buildings when they can simply pulverize the Garrison from the inside out.
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby The Black Hand » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:50 pm

cheeseaholic wrote: (snip) Of course, I don't know what step 2 is. Step 1 is retreat. Step 3 is rule from new capital. But step 2 is ???????.


Actually, I think it goes more like this:

1) Plan the retreat. (This, obviously, has already been done.)

2) Assemble forces in such a manner as to give the most valuable targets (a/k/a Precious Cargo - in this case, leadership and/or casters) a high chance of survival.

In this case, Tramennis's idea of stacking the casters and Slately in a max stack is actually a pretty good idea. With the known Jetstone casters, a max stack of leadership+casters would be pretty effective:

Healomancer - Heal units in the stack, and possibly increase their maximum hits.
Dittomancer - Double their stats - if this includes doubleing leadership bonuses, which it likely does, this stack of Glass Cannons could easily become a stack of Lightning Bruisers.

Also, if the Dittomancer is able to create a duplicate of the stack as well - not a perfect copy, but enough to confuse any attackers - then the fake leadership stack could scoot away with Tramennis while the real ones head for Jetstone the City.

Ace Hardware - Create weapons/combat accessories/golems/etc.

Cubbins - If he's a Hat Magician, as has been theorized, then he'd be useful for keeping lines of communication open between Tramennis and the Precious Cargo stack (providing, of course, that both elements of the Spacerock Defense Force depart on separate routes.)

3) Escort Precious Cargo to nearest available capital site (in this case, Jetstone the City), engaging enemy forces only as necessary and avoiding them whenever possible.

4) Rule side from nearest available capital site (the aforementioned Jetstone the City).
The strength of our future lies in our past.
-VNV Nation

There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.
-Sun-tzu, The Art of War
The Black Hand
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:59 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby justamessenger » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:57 pm

GaryThunder wrote:
You are correct that conventional tactics are not likely to work, which is why Tramennis is far more likely to use asymmetric tactics, which is far more viable with GK 'storming the castle.' Small units CAN effectively engage larger units, with the dual outcomes of a) slowing down an advance, as additional measures must be taken to secure the column, and b) inflicting casualties.

Think of a team of soldiers clearing a building in an Iraqi/Afghani city: It takes a decent sized team to enter, clear and secure a building. Even one or two enemies can make that process considerably more difficult and time-consuming. The entry team cannot advance without ensuring that each room, each closet, each stairwell, each and every potential hiding spot is cleared. Tramennis can use this absolute necessity to his advantage.

Edit: The larger the building (in this case a huge tower), the more troops and more time are required to conduct the sweep. From what we have seen of the interior of the Tower, it will take GK forces a significant amount of time to clear each room and corridor on each floor.


The difference here is that a team of soldiers clearing a building in an Iraqi city have an interest in keeping the building, and the city, intact. GK does not. Now that their purples and reds are on the ground, they can level the whole city building by building, never having to waste time or units in clearing out buildings when they can simply pulverize the Garrison from the inside out.


Are you suggesting that GK is just going to raze the Tower? Other buildings are not a factor, as it doesn't seem that JS has any units there (or if they do, only a small number).

That seems contrary to what we have seen thus far, regarding their plans. And don't forget that Parson will be coming through the portal and dropping the building may well kill him.
"Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten."
- G.K. Chesterton

Special thanks to BLANDCorporatio for the awesome avatar!!
User avatar
justamessenger
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby gazes_also » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:08 pm

Calemyr wrote:I can't tell whether Slately is saying "If I'd used Tram back when I had a chance, I wouldn't be talking to a corpse" or whether he's saying "I send warriors when I should negotiate and diplomats when I should fight - I really am at fault, here." or "Yep. Trem's just as much of a disappointment as you were, boyo."

As for the what happens next, Tram is going to get away. He has to, he's too good an adversary to get rid of and he'd make a much more interesting ally later, of his own volition when the situation gets more dire. Ace... I'm not sure about Ace. The erf will weep tears of bitter blood if Parson gains Ace's loyalty. Less so if he gets decrypted, however. I could see how it'd happen, too: Ace disobeys orders to get the jetpack to Tram, but in doing so puts him and Tram into a position where only one can escape and Ace decides to buy time for the boss to escape. Wanda wants to kill him, but Parson is able to dissuade her and Ace gets chucked into dungeon. A while later, Parson shows up in the dungeon with an armful of Ace's hardware, asking if he really built them and gushing about how brilliant they were. Finally, someone gets it.


He's saying it was a mistake to pass over Trem for Ansom and Ossomer.
Calling a friend has to mean Don, I think to beg for the smuckers to make Tremm the heir ( probably won't get it from him and will then turn to Charlie and make a deal). If he can make Tremm heir he will send Tremm to the alternate capital and will lead the rearguard himself, as the price for all his mistakes.
User avatar
gazes_also
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:12 pm

3) Escort Precious Cargo to nearest available capital site (in this case, Jetstone the City), engaging enemy forces only as necessary and avoiding them whenever possible.


This assumes that Precious Cargo has the move to get to Jetstone the City. I can't imagine casters or Rulers having substantial amounts of move, and they're certainly not sparing any spots in the stack for mounts.

Are you suggesting that GK is just going to raze the Tower? Other buildings are not a factor, as it doesn't seem that JS has any units there (or if they do, only a small number).

That seems contrary to what we have seen thus far, regarding their plans. And don't forget that Parson will be coming through the portal and dropping the building may well kill him.


What reason does GK have to keep the Tower intact? The portal, where Parson is coming through, is in the dungeon, which isn't a Garrison zone. If Parson was capable of wrecking all of GK except for the dungeon as he did at the end of Book 1 while keeping himself safe down there, GK can surely bring down the Tower without compromising Spacerock's dungeon. In fact, it behooves GK to bring down the Tower, and thus the Garrison, as quickly as possible so that they can pin Slately in the city before he has a chance to escape.
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Ansan Gotti » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:20 pm

gazes_also wrote:Calling a friend has to mean Don, I think to beg for the smuckers to make Tremm the heir ( probably won't get it from him and will then turn to Charlie and make a deal). If he can make Tremm heir he will send Tremm to the alternate capital and will lead the rearguard himself, as the price for all his mistakes.


Ooh. I think you just called it.

Both this and the Thinkamancer temple being a tinfoil hat just ring so TRUE to me.
Ansan Gotti
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:21 pm

I don't think Don has the Schmuckers to designate Tramennis heir. Transylvito is about as broke as Jetstone right now.
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Ansan Gotti » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:22 pm

GaryThunder wrote:I don't think Don has the Schmuckers to designate Tramennis heir. Transylvito is about as broke as Jetstone right now.


Maybe not Don, but perhaps someone else along the same lines.

(And while I do think Don is strapped, I don't think it's to the same extent as Jetstone.)
Ansan Gotti
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby CelebrenIthil » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:23 pm

I now I interrupt this discussion for the most meaningful and clever addition to the topic so far:

Image

Pac - Pac - Pac -Pac - Pac ...


Ok you now can all resume.
My Dwagons!
Red: Kelvin Yellow: Newton Green: Langmuir Blue: Ampere Purple: Decibel Pink: Pascal
build6 wrote:It's true, we're all gay for Tramennis, even if we're straight :-)
User avatar
CelebrenIthil
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:40 pm
Location: Under my hair

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:27 pm

The art in these updates is amazing. Consider: the white-haired female Jetstone soldier closing the door on the left in Panel 5 is almost certainly the same one looking longly at Antium in Panels 6 and 8 here. She will probably never actually be important to the story, but it's little things like her inclusion that really make this comic shine.
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Sixty » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:39 pm

GaryThunder wrote:The art in these updates is amazing. Consider: the white-haired female Jetstone soldier closing the door on the left in Panel 5 is almost certainly the same one looking longly at Antium in Panels 6 and 8 here. She will probably never actually be important to the story, but it's little things like her inclusion that really make this comic shine.


Nice catch! I had completely missed her being in this update.
User avatar
Sixty
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:03 am
Location: Salisbury, Maryland

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Zack Bishop » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:47 pm

that really does look like Hawkeye Pierce, minus a bit of jaw definition. But he's got stubble, green scrubs, a surgeon's cap, and partly obscured by Ditto Man's lollipop, there's a breathing mask dangling from his neck.


I'd say the Healomancer is definitely a reference to Hawkeye Pierce, yes. I'm surprised that I haven't seen anybody referring to the Dittomancer as Elliott, though. With the reference I've linked in mind, the thing on his staff looks less like a lollipop...
Zack Bishop
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Zack Bishop » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:48 pm

GaryThunder wrote:The art in these updates is amazing. Consider: the white-haired female Jetstone soldier closing the door on the left in Panel 5 is almost certainly the same one looking longly at Antium in Panels 6 and 8 here. She will probably never actually be important to the story, but it's little things like her inclusion that really make this comic shine.


Good eye, there. I completely missed that.
Zack Bishop
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:51 pm

Nice catch! I had completely missed her being in this update.


The white hair was a tipoff, but it was her *ahem* callipygian figure that drew my eye. A friend of mine and I were discussing her after her first appearance - could she have had feelings for Antium and been horrified at his wounds? Or was her look not one of dismay but one of awe, for seeing how he could maintain his commanding presence even as acid was eating away at his body?
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Saladman » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:59 pm

On a first read it wasn't clear to me Slately's had a conversion moment at all. We go from Slately lying to Tramennis when he tells him he has faith in him, to being doubtful about his plan, to saying he always chose the wrong son to lead. And now he's going to talk to a friend (has to be a royal unless he's using "friend" loosely) - that could be leading up to relieving Tram rather than following his plan.

On the other hand, Slately did say chose not choose, and didn't choose tram so much as was stuck with him as the only royal left, so I'm starting to see it. I guess he could have been so impressed by the plan/montage he realized he'd underestimated Tram's strategic skills.
Saladman
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:59 pm

Something else I've noticed: Look at Ossomer's skull-flower insignia. His is different from the others we've seen, his has little wavy lines on the side. Perhaps they're reflective of the frilly crowny bits Ossomer and Tramennis had on their radishes for their Jetstone insignia? Tramennis still has his, but look at the soldiers around him - they do not. Significantly, neither does Ansom, so it isn't just a "Royal of Jetstone" thing. Could this be a minor sign that Ossomer isn't quite like the other Decrypted?
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby fehler » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:03 pm

I noticed that decription doesn't regrow limbs. Poor "Lefty" Antium.
fehler
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Zack Bishop » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:04 pm

A lot of people have mentioned that Parson would probably click with Ace. As much as I agree, I wonder why Parson didn't use fistfuls of Gobwin Knob's post-volcano currency surplus to entice as many different types of casters from the MK as he could. I would speculate that among his notes that we haven't seen yet is a list showing the different varieties of casters and the effects each can bring at different levels.

And right after that list, a matrix showing different combinations of linked casters with theoretical gamebreaker effects. If/when he finds out that a linked Turnamancer can have such a devastating effect as the Kingworld spell, my guess is that he's going to focus on casters immediately after.
Zack Bishop
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:20 pm

As much as I agree, I wonder why Parson didn't use fistfuls of Gobwin Knob's post-volcano currency surplus to entice as many different types of casters from the MK as he could.


He didn't have the authority. He was demoted from CW in favor of Ansom as soon as Stanley got back to the rebuilt GK, and he's only now resuming that authority. Besides, it might be a Jetstone-only thing, but there have been indications that caster management is the provenance of Rulers more than even Chief Warlords.

And they didn't need more casters. Decryption alone was steamrolling everybody.
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Althernai » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:34 pm

Saladman wrote:On a first read it wasn't clear to me Slately's had a conversion moment at all. We go from Slately lying to Tramennis when he tells him he has faith in him, to being doubtful about his plan, to saying he always chose the wrong son to lead. And now he's going to talk to a friend (has to be a royal unless he's using "friend" loosely) - that could be leading up to relieving Tram rather than following his plan.

On the other hand, Slately did say chose not choose, and didn't choose tram so much as was stuck with him as the only royal left, so I'm starting to see it. I guess he could have been so impressed by the plan/montage he realized he'd underestimated Tram's strategic skills.

It's not entirely clear yet, but it sounds to me like he wants to talk to somebody who can lend him enough money to make Trammenis an heir (what other use would talking to a friend be in this situation?).
Althernai
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:08 am

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Deo, Google [Bot], joosy, Vanvidum, Yahoo [Bot] and 17 guests