Book 2 – Text Updates 042

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:34 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
Krennson wrote:
Sieggy wrote:It's not as much being gay as projecting an image of femininity which generally equates to weakness, I think. He's just not strong in the manner that Slately ever had cause to see before now. A victim of his old blindness and prejudices . . .


why would femininity equate to weakness? they have female queens, female warlords, even female pikers. Females don't get pregnant, and we've never heard of females having lower average stats than males.


I don't think it was femininity, but his being relatively small, thin, and weak-looking. Look at Ossomer: square jaw, bulging muscles, superman's own haircut. Tram is puny and thin by comparison. Then add in Tram's foppish, dandy-like behavior.

Note that this is the exact same prejudice that Stanley has: they valued the same things in their warlords, beefy guys who look good on the battlefield. Stanley promoting the wrong warlords almost wiped out his side. Slately doing the exact same thing also almost did the same.

I believe Stanely, and Slately, having names and statures and even appearances that are so similar isn't a coincidence. Heck there's signamancy all over those two being counterparts

Actually, I'm beginning to think that this is as close as it ever will get to homophobia in Erfworld.

If you think about it, sex doesn't produce offspring. And as far as we know, it doesn't even spread disease that way. And even the roughest sex heals automatically at the start of each new turn (according to Maggie's conversation with Parson). So none of the sexual consequences of homosexuality actually exist here. The prejudices cannot (mostly) be about such things.

So all you get are the prejudices about men not being manly enough. The only dimension you get out of homophobia has to do more with gender roles than with sexuality. And the stereotype of the flamboyant and effeminate gay man can still exist.

This appropriate for Erfworld since Erfworld is constitutionally unable to be anything other than PG-13.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby GaryThunder » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:05 pm

I seem to recall a scene where Parson walked into a dormitory of nearly-nude to nude Archons having a slumber party. PG-13?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Ansan Gotti » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:06 pm

Erfworld was required to be PG-13 on the GITP servers (and one use of the F-word does not transform a PG-13 movie into an R movie, by the way).

Rob has more liberty now, on his own servers.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:14 pm

GaryThunder wrote:I seem to recall a scene where Parson walked into a dormitory of nearly-nude to nude Archons having a slumber party. PG-13?

*rolls eyes*
What is your point?

Erfworld is parodying the notion of making mature topics "family friendly" by trying to make it look inoffensive. The violence and implied sex is still all there even if its impact is downplayed or prettified. You see movie makers trying to get the PG-13 rating because that's the optimal demographic for making money.

Erfworld does what movie-makers do, except that it just so happens to be metaphysically enforced.

It wouldn't surprise me if Erfworlders referred to sex as "snoo-snoo." Cut to Parson reacting to the absurdity of it.

EDIT:
It'd be funny if Erfworlders are like Ken and Barbie dolls and their version of sex is just some heavy petting. Parson might not ever know up until the moment he actually commits.

Okay, okay, I know Maggie has an innuendo about male weapons, but I'm just saying.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Ansan Gotti » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:40 pm

ParsonIsOP wrote:Does anybody actually read anymore?
...
Stop wasting my time covering basic etiquette for things you should already know.


ParsonIsOP wrote:*rolls eyes*
What is your point?


What's with the attitude?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Dante » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:41 pm

BCCroaker wrote:Consider this paragraph.
"Whoever it was, they surely had some reason which made sense at the time. Yet Slately understood that in some subtle way they were carrying out the Titans' will. People of import such as himself, who proceeded through their lives directing and driving the wheels of Erfworld, so often stepped upon a scene which was ready-made for what they would do. The Titans had set this table for him now. "
So in this game-like world situations occur when they are dramatically appropriate rather than following the rules of Pasons world or a tabletop war game.

Well, I think that goes without saying. Note how units don't receive anything that appears to be a fatal blow until they lose their last hit. Duke Antium walks around missing half his limbs. Just a scratch! But then he gets brained by a stray arrow. Now, the arrow didn't kill him because it hit him in the brain -- that's Earth logic. No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. Why? Because drama (or in this case, comedy), that's why.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby effataigus » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:48 pm

Dante wrote:Now, the arrow didn't kill him because it hit him in the brain -- that's Earth logic. No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. Why? Because drama (or in this case, comedy), that's why.


Yay, I love being the guy that objects to an unimportant part of a post while totally ignoring the main point!

While the spinal cord is part of the nervous system and is capable of very basic decision making, I don't think it's considered to be part of the brain.

http://www.erfworld.com/page/8/

[/troll]
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:58 pm

Dante wrote:
BCCroaker wrote:Consider this paragraph.
"Whoever it was, they surely had some reason which made sense at the time. Yet Slately understood that in some subtle way they were carrying out the Titans' will. People of import such as himself, who proceeded through their lives directing and driving the wheels of Erfworld, so often stepped upon a scene which was ready-made for what they would do. The Titans had set this table for him now. "
So in this game-like world situations occur when they are dramatically appropriate rather than following the rules of Pasons world or a tabletop war game.

Well, I think that goes without saying. Note how units don't receive anything that appears to be a fatal blow until they lose their last hit. Duke Antium walks around missing half his limbs. Just a scratch! But then he gets brained by a stray arrow. Now, the arrow didn't kill him because it hit him in the brain -- that's Earth logic. No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. Why? Because drama (or in this case, comedy), that's why.

Except when it's a grunt who just happens to die an ignominious death.
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=/E034_Eiphel_Wrigley.jpg
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=/2010-05-19.png

Whether their deaths are dramatic or not is subjective. And I don't think it's really a useful way to view the problem since it just confuses the issue. Are you saying that it's dramatic for the audience? Are you saying the Titans are doing it for lulz? Are you saying that the Titans are doing it just to cruelly allow for situations where people rise up against adversity for some inscrutable reason? Are you also really saying that every off-screen death is "dramatic"?

What can be objectively said is that there is that death works by different mechanics than it does on Earth. So we haven't really gone anywhere from that paragraph except to conclude that Slately thinks there is some kind of divine providence guiding his fate. The links I provide says that Wrigley thinks along the same lines.

Tramennis, one of the more philosophical Erfworlders, point out the problems this raises. If there is beneficent providence, it surely could've done better than Erfworld. Tramennis is straying into Epicurus's Problem of Evil. Replace "God" with "Titans."

I mean, just look at Wrigley's beliefs. They're horrible. He doesn't get to go to the City of Heroes because he was made a grunt as part of the Titan's plan? And then he was fated to die the first time in confusion and pain? And his second life's purpose is to die simply because his side's plan just happened to fail? Tramennis very much has a point here.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Remetheus » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:24 pm

Agreed that we don't know much of the mechanics for death or injuries in Erfworld.

I mean, just look at harvesting. Just one hypothetical punch from Parson can kill a dwagon on his side. It is entirely possible that one blow on an enemy prisoner can result in death. Luckamancy and Mathamancy are other good indicators of how much we don't know.

That being said, maybe blows on fatal areas count as 'critical hits'?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby kreszantas » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:02 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:
ParsonIsOP wrote:Does anybody actually read anymore?
...
Stop wasting my time covering basic etiquette for things you should already know.


ParsonIsOP wrote:*rolls eyes*
What is your point?


What's with the attitude?


I have to agree with you... Erfworld has seen many come in with this type of attitude before.. be a blowhard then peter out just like a hurricane... It will pass with time. :|

Those of us who have been around since the first posting on GiTP know how things work. In the past the forum has had excellent discussions on difficult subjects. Erf is just that a medium on being able to discuss difficult subjects in a manner that is still attention grabbing without being obscene. That takes a special talent to write and write it well. And the only rule of the forum/website.... don't be a dick
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby kreszantas » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:06 pm

effataigus wrote:
Dante wrote:Now, the arrow didn't kill him because it hit him in the brain -- that's Earth logic. No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. Why? Because drama (or in this case, comedy), that's why.


Yay, I love being the guy that objects to an unimportant part of a post while totally ignoring the main point!

While the spinal cord is part of the nervous system and is capable of very basic decision making, I don't think it's considered to be part of the brain.

http://www.erfworld.com/page/8/

[/troll]


Well the thrwart was the sound of the arrow entering from the back THROUGH the body out the front where a human's heart would be... the thwart sound should have been the key indicator that was a killing blow considering all the hits already taken. We don't know if the acid had an (-1) hit per round or a DoT on him (Damage over time). There are many more theories that can be pulled out when we put our tinfoil hats on... and then just some questions only the Titan's will know and we have to leave it at that.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:27 pm

Hmm. I've noticed a very definite trend here in the leadership of the Royalist coalition.

The way Transylvito is going, it appears that the Don is driving his kingdom into decline by his overgenerous spending, alienating his leaders and simultaneously getting too aggressive with their neighbors. It appears as if Caesar could seize power and may even feel entirely justified in doing so. He is also recognized as the most competent warlord and was the likeliest heir-designate before Transylvito decided to pop an heir. And in a very generic and boring Earth sense, the leadership is probably now more loyal to him than to Don.

Slately is poised to hand off power to his most competent leader: Tramennis. Tramennis, like the average Translyvito lord, doesn't seem to be hardliner Royalist. He also has a high tolerance for ambiguity and his head doesn't break when his values clash with somebody else's. He is a diplomat after all. He is also not averse to working with Charlie. And he may end up defining his own distinct style of Jetstonian "Royalty." (The possibilities get even more interesting if Ace's peculiar talents are recognized by Tramennis.)

Jillian is likewise as nontraditional and individualistic as either Caesar or Tramennis. Whatever your other feelings are about her, she's not King Banhammer, who is a more traditional, if eccentric, Royal.

So what happens when the Royal Coalition is composed of Caesar, Tramennis, Jillian and (unofficially) Charlie? Those are some scary adversaries being set up against Gobwin Knob. None of these people care much for a "Royal" ideology and are going to be far more pragmatic. Being a "Royal" coalition is a mere technicality. By this point, it's about mutual survival.

Thesis. Antithesis. Royal versus Toolists. Royalists become multilateral pragmatists. Toolism is shown to be irrelevant and GK subtly begins reflecting Parson's own attitudes.

Parson may not know it, but many units are not simply Loyal to him, but loyal. His own casters and Vurp are shown to trust and admire Parson. And Maggie comments on the novelty of Parson's egalitarian values. Parson, for his part, shows respect to his underlings. An uncommon trait in warlords. Parson also doesn't actually have anything personal against any of the above-mentioned leaders. He only reluctantly fights them out of a sense of duty to his own troops.

Moreover, Parson may even be unwittingly shaping a culture that doesn't revolve around war. The summer updates revealed that he had trolls make street signs and numbered buildings, as well as odd knicknacks like picnic baskets. These concepts seem alien to Erfworlders. This notion of leisure? Unheard of.

It would also be interesting to see Parson unintentionally inspiring people to make use of buildings such as amphitheaters. Or try culinary experiments. Or begin genuine scientific inquiry (e.g. Sizemore formalizes the scientific method, becoming the Francis Bacon of Erfworld). It could start small and snowball into something else entirely. A cultural Renaissance. Infecting trolls with his oddball ideas and puzzling his troops with his strange experiments may just be the start. And the few intellectuals he has influenced (i.e. the casters) also take his ideas very seriously. There's even some cross-pollination with Tramennis.

Interesting stuff.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby abb3w » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:02 am

Scaramouche wrote:
abb3w wrote:
melhelix wrote:There is a gun on the table. :shock:


I won’t find it fantastic or think it absurd/
When the gun in the first act goes off in the third...


So ... it's a CHEKOV'S gun on the table! Victory.


Somewhere, somehow, Ensign Toast is jealous.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:12 am

More cool speculation:
If Ace is recognized by Tramennis, things could take a very weird turn.

Remember that Jetstone is characterized by infantry armies. They love them. It's revealed that a "true Jetstone" warlord loves a good romping infantry battle. Tramennis is no exception.

So we have an infantry-heavy army that is enhanced and outfitted by Ace on a massive production scale. Superficially, you might have something that looks like a Napoleonic citizen army of Earth, which was the precursor for industrial warfare. Before Europe, armies were mostly composed of relatively few trained professionals from a fighting class who didn't fight wars of attrition. However, the analogy isn't perfect.

What I'm driving at is that you have an army concerned with mass tactics and massed firepower and the logistics of making both those things happen. This is very much in the Jetstonian approach to war. There is a great deal made about Jetstone using numerical and logistical superiority to win wars. Indeed, the extended supply lines of Ansom are a major plot point in the first book.

Any sufficiently industrialized magic is indistinguishable from technology. It might be interesting if the average Jetstonian trooper were issued a rechargeable magic item that fires projectiles. Or if Ace made primitive artillery pieces which are then wheeled around by heavies.

Of course, it could be more limited than that. It might take the form of a couple "special" regiments of anachronistic looking soldiers. One that gets pulled out of a sleeve at some crucial moment.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Paladinian » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:02 am

ParsonIsOP wrote:So what happens when the Royal Coalition is composed of Caesar, Tramennis, Jillian and (unofficially) Charlie?


The problem is that Caesar has no respect for Jillian, perhaps even so far as a hatred toward her. And don't forget Caesar himself isn't royal and is a touch sensitive about it... much of his present conflict with the Don revolves around this fact, and that a new, *royal* heir will supersede him. I don't really see Caesar joining a Royal Coalition should he become ruler, particularly if it means having to keep working with Jillian. The whole side will probably in fact go non-royal.

Frankly I think his focus would only be on stabilizing his side, and perhaps reclaiming some of the Don's investment in Faq. Possibly through razing if need be.

No, I think if Caesar takes power, the only thing we'll be seeing from that side is Vinny defecting to Faq, or their becoming full fledged adversaries.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Oberon » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:09 am

ParsonIsOP wrote:Not everything can be judged by a person's appearance. So what else can you call it but superstition? It's like phrenology. Yes, your physical appearance may somewhat reflect your mental character. But it's not really a reliable way of determining psychology.
Yeah, I'll agree here. The author has left us in a pickle... What to attribute to the (potentially misguided) concept of "natural signamancy", and what to attribute to what on Stupidworld would be a very natural cause/effect, sit on a throne all day and manage your kingdom, and you can expect to go all soft and fat.

All we have are clues, and not terribly indicative clues. Slately not only got fat and pale, but he also shrank. That doesn't often happen on Stupidworld, until very advanced age at least. There is also the potential for a "Slately's signamancy caused him to be ugly, not because he wasn't dashing and brave, but because he harbored prejudice" Aesop.
MarbitChow wrote:My speculation:
Tram is certainly demonstrating effeminate qualities. Because of this, I think *we* are reading 'homophobia' into Slately's reactions.

Tram excels at brokering peace agreements, treaties, etc. His stature does not scream "warrior" like Oss does.
Slately thought (erroneously) that because Tram preferred peace, he wouldn't have the stomach for war.
Except that this isn't quite correct. Slately sent Tram out to win or die, and didn't care either way. Perhaps an early indication of his prejudice. But Tram did neither. Instead he cornered the enemy and forced them into an alliance which included tribute. (And damn the wiki for referencing the event without referencing the strip in which it was detailed. Bad wiki contributors, bad!) This is not the description of a man who loves peace at the expense of other considerations. Had Tram not "cornered the enemy" there would have been no peace, so it appears as though Tram enforced a peace through superior firepower. Not the tactics his brothers might have taken, but as Slately mused, Tram had probably earned Jetstone more shmuckers than any other prince. This is not just a skill at brokering peace agreements, it seems to be the qualifications for a true statesman. (now, if he only weren't being such an idiot lately... :lol:)
MarbitChow wrote:It's like Thomas Jefferson having a black mistress. Having sex with her is one thing. Publicly putting her forward as a socially and legally recognized mate? Unthinkable.
Yeah, but let's hope that the natural signamancy for racism would be handled just like I'm hoping the natural signamancy for homophobia might be being handled: You get ugly, bitch, and this is due to your outer self reflecting your inner "worth."
ParsonIsOP wrote:However, there is no evidence that it ever cost Slately money to pop Ace.

By the by, the burden of proof is on you. Not me. I haven't made a claim to knowledge. You have. Stop wasting my time covering basic etiquette for things you should already know.
There is evidence, if one assumes that popping a unit costs shmuckers. Ace popped in Dhrystone, in place of a warlord.
The damn wiki states:
erfwiki wrote:Caster Creation

Casters are created in the same way as warlords; when a Side pops a warlord, there is a chance it will get a caster instead. The Side also does not get to choose the type of caster it receives.
This indicates that when a side queues up a Warlord, they might get a caster. Other references support this, such as Jillian musing about how she never got an early caster while popping warlords.

BTW: There is no burden of proof. You can't assert something and claim that it is fact unless it can be disproved. There is no way to prove a negative. Pickles taste like roast beef! Prove me wrong... No matter how many references you have which assert that pickles do not taste like roast beef, there is no way to prove that the next pickle won't taste like roast beef.
justamessenger wrote:Nobody else has mentioned this: a bundle of sticks of dynamite :o .
Um, yes. I did.
name lips wrote:And Trem will have something no side, except perhaps Charlie's, has ever had. Think about this for a second.
Ansom wasn't smart? He was out-thought by our Protagonist, and also goaded into some behavior that wasn't necessarily to his best advantage (should have attacked in a turn, and didn't. Then, when schooled by Parson, shouldn't attack the next turn, and did due to the harsh lessons of the prior turn) but that doesn't make him stupid.
atalex wrote:Slately takes the grenade, Ace pulls the pin, and they both put their hands over it and over each other's hands and wait for the explosion. Just like Vasquez and Gorman at the end of Aliens -- two enemies bravely facing death together.
Ace: You always were an asshole, Slately!
Dr Pepper wrote:He probably has a gauntlet that gives its wearer a Kung Fu Grip.
And then she pulled out my mushroom tip.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:But I see Oberon already replied to this, with uncharacteristic restraint even ;)
That's because, while I might be an asshole, I'm not a complete asshole!
DoctorJest wrote:Consider this: If alternative sexuality is such a big deal in Erfworld, then why does the obviously and ambivalently bisexual Jillian not raise anyone's eyebrow at all? If anything, the lack of reaction by any characters about the gender makeup of Jillian's complicated love life establishes pretty solidly, very early on, that those sorts of things don't matter.
I would tend to agree. It's only that this last text update seems to have insinuated a different sort of values than those which have been expressed previously in the strip.
justamessenger wrote:Erfworld is an Equal Opportunity Employer. Prejudices against race, gender, and sexual orientation have not appeared in Erf, from the comic, and the only religious prejudice seems to be Royals v. Toolists thus far.
Prior to this conflict was the "good" vs. "evil" prejudice. GK units were called "beast" (twolls) and "demoness" (croakamancers) by the RCC forces. And we have the natural allies who have limitations on who they can ally with based upon the unit types those Sides can pop. Let there be no doubt, Erfworld has indeed shown that prejudice is alive and well within the setting.
Urf wrote:We should be spending our juice thinking of a way to get a Green Lantern force field around our merry cast.
Good thing that grenades are green, and not yellow...
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Lamech » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:36 am

You know it occurs to me that the original Jetstone plan to check Jetstone at the bridge basically was packing the mouth of the bridge with super-tough units and keeping them from dying with healing. If they started to lose units Wanda would get them and it would basically be over. So you wanna make the best use of the healing juice. Which means the best units possible. Ace should have been stacking them with accessories.
Oberon wrote:Prior to this conflict was the "good" vs. "evil" prejudice. GK units were called "beast" (twolls) and "demoness" (croakamancers) by the RCC forces. And we have the natural allies who have limitations on who they can ally with based upon the unit types those Sides can pop. Let there be no doubt, Erfworld has indeed shown that prejudice is alive and well within the setting.
I recall at one point Wanda being called the "archwitch" as well. The royals at least are clearly racist in nature against both the demons and the witches.
Yeah, I'll agree here. The author has left us in a pickle... What to attribute to the (potentially misguided) concept of "natural signamancy", and what to attribute to what on Stupidworld would be a very natural cause/effect, sit on a throne all day and manage your kingdom, and you can expect to go all soft and fat.

All we have are clues, and not terribly indicative clues. Slately not only got fat and pale, but he also shrank. That doesn't often happen on Stupidworld, until very advanced age at least. There is also the potential for a "Slately's signamancy caused him to be ugly, not because he wasn't dashing and brave, but because he harbored prejudice" Aesop.
It seems like there must be some signamancy running around. Note the signamancers. But it could very well be a combination of the two effects. Signamancy makes you smaller, normal events make you fat. Regardless no one knows. And even if signamancy did change his appearance it could simply be him getting the crown or his lack of fighting.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Selexor » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:52 am

Random observation / theory:

It strikes me that, like Tramennis said, Jetstone can defeat Gobwin Knob based on their numbers and leadership. Gobwin Knob's units in Spacerock have two advantages that would counter this: strategy coming from Parson (and Jack), and Wanda's ability to decrypt the fallen. And since Wanda and Jack are going to the portal room, and Parson's going to be incommunicado during his hundred-yard dash through the Magic Kingdom, that actually puts Gobwin Knob's units in the Atrium at a pretty massive disadvantage. Dwagons and decroaked leadership may be one thing, but if King Slately personally leads the remainder of Spacerock's defenders in an attack on the Atrium, he may actually do some pretty serious curb stomping of Gobwin Knob's units here. Definitely enough to whittle down the GK forces to a more manageable size by the time Parson arrives.

Aside from the epic battle this implies, and a chance for Slately to redeem himself with a real battle for once in his life, this puts up what I think is a very interesting thought:
If an already-tough twoll henchman levels twice by defeating Prince Ansom, how many levels will a Level 2 Chief Warlord gain if he personally croaks a Royal Overlord who's been around for thousands of turns?
And if Parson does gain a swagful of levels by doing so... is it at all possible that he'd unlock any abilities? Warlord-related, Hippiemancer-related, or other?
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Atomic » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:20 am

Lamech wrote:Bunny never speaks? Except in people's heads? So any and all conversations Ceaser has had with Bunny have been in his head? I think there is a good chance he's crazy. Or an epileptic tree one of the two.

Only two? Dear Lamech, good sir, you've got at least a forest-worth! Caesar is apeshit-crazy. Bunny is mute. (You can stop reading now...the rest are tin-foily). Bunny is a Titan in disguise using Retconjuration to commune with the denizens of Erfworld...by creating a paradox. Bunny has, at the order of Don King, implanted all these 'conversations' by plucking Caesar's G-String/Thinkamancy powder; their purpose is so that when Caesar finally snaps, Bunny can deny it all ("I've never spoken to him a day in my life! Honest!") and there won't be a loss in Loyalty from the other Warlords. Bunny is Charlie, and she doesn't speak because she'd have the deep baritone voice of a man. Bunny is an elaborate Doll used by the real Thinkamancer of Transylvito; Don King. Bunny is a tuna. Bunny is the avatar of Rob and, he being the skilled writer that he is, doesn't want to insert himself into the story any more than necessary, which turns into Bunny being present (yet silent) throughout all the books. Bunny has the same voice as Caesar and doesn't want to embarrass him by sounding identical to the Chief Warlord. Bunny, being the skilled Thinkamancer that she is, forgot how to speak Language. Bunny was the result of an experiment in the Magic Kingdom; she's has skilled Thinkamancy capabilities, but is unable to speak, due to the min-maxing involved. Erfworld is being viewed by an unreliable narrator who never liked Bunny, and so opted to remove her dialog at every possible turn...as a result, we're constantly missing out on the hilariously snarky comments Bunny has been making since her first appearance. Bunny is that unreliable narrator...as a result, we're never going to see her dialog, because Bunny is just narrating the entire thing. Bunny is the actual Queen of Transylvito, but she has a manly voice (possible Changemancy at work?) so she uses her ventriloquism (Natural Talkamancy?) to speak through her Moll; Don King, who is both a puppet and a scape-goat in case of traitorous heirs. Should I continue?

MarbitChow wrote:Tram is certainly demonstrating effeminate qualities. Because of this, I think *we* are reading 'homophobia' into Slately's reactions.

Eeeeh... I'm not so sure. As much as I imagine every Erfworlder to love Tramennis' foppish and dandyish (lol.) personality, it's hard to assume Slately could mean anything *but*...something homophobic. Homophobic is the wrong word to use here, though: I think that's the issue. In my eyes, "homosexuals" could be disliked by the denizens of Erfworld, not because of their choice in partners, but because they're different. I mean, that's where all these issues come from, right? Tools verses Royals, Scorists verses Scriptural-followers...(which, by the way, there being 'Scripture' in Erfworld, who's to say the Titans haven't said homosexual relations are bad? Regardless of the fact Erfworlders are popped that way)... I mean, heck, Marbits don't (moar like won't, amirite?) ally with Gobwins. Where're all these feelings coming from? It's because people. Are. Different. "Racism" at its core, just on a much broader scale.

Selexor wrote:Random observation / theory:
*snip*
Aside from the epic battle this implies,
*snip*

Already called that first one...but was promptly shot down by people who think Wanda is/was capable of a solid strategic idea... I think otherwise, but we'll see. I'll be ready to say "I told you so!" when it happens...or to delete my previous posts when it doesn't happ...umm...

As far as leveling...
Word of Titans wrote:You have to understand that the denizens of Erfworld don't see a lot of what a player would see in a game. Including XP. Leveling is a surprise to them, and XP (or the equivalent) is a theory (albeit a pretty solid one). The people are in the dark and guessing, and it's kind of hard to build an XP table by actually finding 10 new level 1 Marbits to croak, discovering that you level, then discovering through experimentation that you need to croak 50 to level again.

From a narrative perspective, the fudge factor is high. But that does not mean there is not one consistent mathematical system governing leveling. It's just opaque to the characters and readers at this time.

The general answer to your question is that power gains are linear and level requirements are exponential. It's not perfectly simple as all that, but to generalize, yes.
... So I'm pretty sure croaking a (likely) Level 1 King/Overlord wouldn't do much. I mean, story/"roleplaying" experience points aside, I'm just not seeing a reasonable excuse for Parson to gain anything from killing Slately besides a nominal amount of exp.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Selexor » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:59 am

Atomic wrote:Already called that first one...but was promptly shot down by people who think Wanda is/was capable of a solid strategic idea... I think otherwise, but we'll see. I'll be ready to say "I told you so!" when it happens...or to delete my previous posts when it doesn't happ...umm...

*snip*

I'm pretty sure croaking a (likely) Level 1 King/Overlord wouldn't do much. I mean, story/"roleplaying" experience points aside, I'm just not seeing a reasonable excuse for Parson to gain anything from killing Slately besides a nominal amount of exp.


I didn't notice that you'd called it earlier (only really had time to skim the earlier pages of this thread before tossing in my two cents - a cardinal sin, I know, but then I'm no saint). Still... while I'll grant that Wanda may have learned some tactics from Parson, she lacks his level of genius or Jack's talent for lateral thinking. And with the numbers as clearly stacked against the Atrium forces as they are, the situation calls for a very skilled and very speedy bout of tactics. Besides, even if Wanda is a worthy student of Pason's, she's not going to be in the Atrium, which means at best command will default to Sylvia while the casters head to the portal room. It's likely that the Jetstone defence force that Slately will lead would at least be a match for that.

As for Slately himself, I'd have to say I contest the idea that he's low-level. It's been implied on several occasions that there are more ways than croaking enemies to gain levels, and while we don't know what those are, Slately's been king for more than three thousand turns. Even given the world's lowest possible experience trickle, there's got to be a level or two in that.
And let's not forget Slately's opinion of warriors-must-be-leaders. You know who thinks like that? Warriors. Now, granted, Slately's only fought one battle since he became king, but what about the time before he got the job? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the reason he always picked the best fighter as heir was because he himself was one, and that's why he believes it's the right way to go. If he'd been a diplomat and strategist his whole life, he'd not have so much scorn for Tramennis' capabilities. And we've seen nothing to suggest that Erfworld allows for level decay. Even if Slately's fighting senses are a bit rusty, he'd retain whatever leader and level bonus he held - and he'd give the same amount of Exp. to whoever croaked him.

I'm the first to acknowledge that it's all theory at this point, but I maintain there's good reason to think Slately might be able to put up a good show in his final battle, and that's if he even croaks here. Tramennis swooping in with a jetpack to save his father isn't all that far-fetched, no? Of course, I do think he's most likely booped, I'm just saying we shouldn't underestimate Slately. He's had that crown for +3000 turns, there must be a reason for it.
But of course that's just my opinion.
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