Book 2 – Text Updates 042

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby abb3w » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:17 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
atalex wrote:I'd just like to point out how brilliant this turn of phrase is:

"So who cares if he's [Tramennis] a— If his Signamancy is less...than manly." Slately cleared his throat. "I certainly don't. Any more. He ought to lead."


It allows Slately to admit that his bias against Tram was the result of homophobia but without using the word "homosexuality" -- which is a word that logically should not exist in Erfworld since it is a world without procreative sex where sexual activity is purely for personal pleasure. Brilliant.


And here I go to be contrarian. Because your interpretation is spot-on, were Slately an Earth character. But like you said, there's no reason why homophobia should exist at all in Erfworld. There's not even a clearly delineated notion of "regular" gender roles, for crying out loud!


Err... actually, there is: the casting of the Summon Perfect Warlord spell.

If there wasn't an analog of homophobia on Erfworld, it would be less familiar to Parson. Therefore, there is such an analog.

Of course, considering this as a reason leads to headache-inducing sorts of discussion about the temporal order of cause-and-effect (see Wikipedia's entry on Newcomb's paradox), and doesn't give a culturally internal reason for why Erfworld developed that analog -- probably. So far as has been revealed, the Summon Perfect Warlord spell did not include retconjuration in the mix. While such a component might be the explanation for the ambiguity as to whether it was Findamancy/Predictamancy mix or Findamancy/Lookamancy, I suspect that ambiguity is simply that Wanda was not telling Jillian the exact truth to a prisoner she was planning to release.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:18 pm

splexis wrote:nice lightsaber.


I think that is just a saber. It has a polished finish and is reflecting the light.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:42 pm

I actually want Ace to end up in the employ of Tramennis, since he is also a badass enough dude to kill aliens.

Another note:
It's interesting that Erfworld beliefs mirror the beliefs of Old Earth. The natural processes are viewed as a kind of magic; providenced and inherently unknowable (so why bother?).

Likewise, there is the quaint belief that physical appearance mirrors character. A person who is squat and weak is harboring a moral weakness. It is a horrible thing to believe, since King Slately probably would have been a better man if it weren't for such superstitious nonsense.

I'd also venture a guess and think that being gay is frowned on. But the travails of gender and sex aren't really the focus of Erfworld. Suffice it to say, I think that's part of the reason why Jillian and Wanda aren't public about their relationship. I'd imagine such dalliances were historically kept secret. Nevermind that Wanda and Jillian are on completely different sides and were of different stations even before that.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby mp122984 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:47 pm

Krennson wrote:not really. they're talking about Spacerock being captured, not destroyed. Captured cities do not produce units for their previous owners. that seems obvious. destruction isn't being discussed here, but we can go back to the battle of gobwin knob's finale for any questions about destruction.


That's... a good point, actually. How destroyed would a city have to be to stop producing anything? Are there levels to it? We know that fund-razing is seen as a short-term source of Schmuckers, but would it be possible to almost raze a town and still get something from it? Another economics issue I suppose.

Also, now that I think about my original post, something occurs to me. Just a guess here based on this:

First Intermission 40 wrote:In Ossomer's studied opinion, Dhrystone also popped the finest soldiers in Erfworld. They were the standard by which all others might be measured.


First Intermission 49 wrote:They had popped five Noble warlords, and no casters. Though there was no way to intentionally pop a caster, usually a new side would receive one among their first few warlords. But it was said that the Titans read the Ruler's heart, and their Fate. Jillian's heart was armed for battle. Surely the Titans sent her what she needed.


Text Updates 30 wrote:"Apparently all of Jetstone mourned her, though. They had a parade, the works, et cetera. King Slately was at a loss for what to do without a Dollamancer. They were all set to rewrite the side's whole strategy. When bam! I popped in Dhrystone."

Ace stood up and resumed pacing the room. "Dollamancy is Fate magic, so I know something about that. Jetstone must've been fated to have a Dollamancer. But I ain't like that broad they had before!"


Text Updates 42 wrote:"If he croaked today, might he be allowed to see her again in the hereafter? Would the Titans judge him so kindly? Could it be his final reward to know love again? ....The city falls, and you'll lose the heir you're popping. You may not be able to do anything about that, though. You have to face the facts."


Based on all this it sounds like Jetstone took Holly's death as a sign from Fate that they weren't meant to have a Dollamancer. Thus, they decided to pop a Military Warlord and specifically chose to pop him from Dhrystone. And then they got a Dollamancer instead. Ace, who probably is the way he is in part because he was popped in Dhrystone. I imagine that this caused massive resentment from everyone else, King Slately especially. As far as everyone else was concerned, they had squandered their presumably one chance to get a Dollamancer like Holly. While there may have been no way to predict this beforehand (would Predictamancy have helped?) hindsight is 20/20 - see Ace's statement, and perhaps Slately wondering if Fate had been trying to read his heart. Thus Ace is not only being compared to Holly, but to the "Holly II" others think he would have been if he had been popped in a more "suitable" location.

It also raises an interesting question - If popping is city-specific (as this update seems to indicate), then how much of a unit's personality is determined by where they pop? And could this be exploited to "force" unorthodoxy into warlords and maybe even casters?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby BCCroaker » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:50 pm

Consider this paragraph.
"Whoever it was, they surely had some reason which made sense at the time. Yet Slately understood that in some subtle way they were carrying out the Titans' will. People of import such as himself, who proceeded through their lives directing and driving the wheels of Erfworld, so often stepped upon a scene which was ready-made for what they would do. The Titans had set this table for him now. "
So in this game-like world situations occur when they are dramatically appropriate rather than following the rules of Pasons world or a tabletop war game.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby abb3w » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:55 pm

omgitsgene wrote:Actually, I think he looks a lot more like Octavius, who styled himself Augustus Caesar if I'm not mistaken.


Yep. Poking around turns up (via WP) Suetonius' description: "He was unusually handsome ... He had clear, bright eyes ... His teeth were wide apart, small, and ill-kept; his hair was slightly curly and inclining to golden; his eyebrows met. His ears were of moderate size, and his nose projected a little at the top and then bent ever so slightly inward. His complexion was between dark and fair. He was short of stature ..." Not bad, aside from the unibrow. Seutonius also candidly notes Augustus Caesar's homosexual affair with King Nicomedes of Bithnia. Still: PoTAYto, poTAHto. Augustus was a pretty competent general, too. Maybe not top-ten like Alexander or Napoleon, but still very definitely not an amateur. (And not an incompetent diplomat, either.) The main point still holds: the Signamancy of Trammenis still suggests Parson may have a Problem.

Of course, worse Signamancy is easily possible. Perhaps Charlie will eventually get desperate enough to pop himself some heirs, starting with number one son LeeChan, followed by... Son Two.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby kreszantas » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:12 pm

mp122984 wrote: Ace stood up and resumed pacing the room. "Dollamancy is Fate magic, so I know something about that. Jetstone must've been fated to have a Dollamancer. But I ain't like that broad they had before!"

Based on all this it sounds like Jetstone took Holly's death as a sign from Fate that they weren't meant to have a Dollamancer. Thus, they decided to pop a Military Warlord and specifically chose to pop him from Dhrystone. And then they got a Dollamancer instead. Ace, who probably is the way he is in part because he was popped in Dhrystone. I imagine that this caused massive resentment from everyone else, King Slately especially. As far as everyone else was concerned, they had squandered their presumably one chance to get a Dollamancer like Holly. While there may have been no way to predict this beforehand (would Predictamancy have helped?) hindsight is 20/20 - see Ace's statement, and perhaps Slately wondering if Fate had been trying to read his heart. Thus Ace is not only being compared to Holly, but to the "Holly II" others think he would have been if he had been popped in a more "suitable" location.

It also raises an interesting question - If popping is city-specific (as this update seems to indicate), then how much of a unit's personality is determined by where they pop? And could this be exploited to "force" unorthodoxy into warlords and maybe even casters?


Cut for simplistic sake... This is what I have been thinking about for sometime. The fact that little Stately liked playing with dolls, plush bears and glass units provided a him a way to rewrite the entire side (which is something that didn't "feel" just did what it was told). Fate stepped in... This shows that a unit has its own inherit self deterimination (or firmness of purpose) and that unit sets about it. Bunny and Ceasar are the same way. Put an "Ace" in their place and get the most productivity out of them and make sure the morale was high at all costs, eventually gets replaced by the race to the bottom once it is realized they pitched all the values they preach to others about out the window. Thus you just cant please everyone all the time.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:36 pm

BCCroaker wrote:Consider this paragraph.
"Whoever it was, they surely had some reason which made sense at the time. Yet Slately understood that in some subtle way they were carrying out the Titans' will. People of import such as himself, who proceeded through their lives directing and driving the wheels of Erfworld, so often stepped upon a scene which was ready-made for what they would do. The Titans had set this table for him now. "
So in this game-like world situations occur when they are dramatically appropriate rather than following the rules of Pasons world or a tabletop war game.

Wrong.

This is simply what Slately, and what most Erfworlders believe. Keep in mind that Erfworlders are prone to superstition (i.e. unverfied or unverifiable beliefs).

kreszantas wrote:Cut for simplistic sake... This is what I have been thinking about for sometime. The fact that little Stately liked playing with dolls, plush bears and glass units provided a him a way to rewrite the entire side (which is something that didn't "feel" just did what it was told). Fate stepped in... This shows that a unit has its own inherit self deterimination (or firmness of purpose) and that unit sets about it. Bunny and Ceasar are the same way. Put an "Ace" in their place and get the most productivity out of them and make sure the morale was high at all costs, eventually gets replaced by the race to the bottom once it is realized they pitched all the values they preach to others about out the window. Thus you just cant please everyone all the time.

We've always known that units have self-determination.

Units are loyal, but not always fully so. But then again, they usually have no choice in the matter since pissing off your ruler means you are disbanded (effectively death).

Wanda is a textbook example. She will work to her sides best advantage when she can, but will still plot for her own personal gain; which she justifies as fulfilling her "Fate." While she caused the fall of Faq, she did so unintentionally, as she did not believe that Stanley really had any chance of toppling her country. And as self-serving as Wanda is, she wouldn't want to deliberately topple the kingdom where she lives. It's not in here best interest.

In many cases, characters attempt to persuade other units to turn. They wouldn't attempt this if the units in question were above temptation. Jack by Jillian. Parson by Charlie. The Turnamancy simply hands the power of disbanding and other little bells-and-whistles to somebody else.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Cyrus » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:44 pm

So Slately's failure to find a euphemism he was willing to speak aloud is clearly meant to indicate that he fears Tram is a man who loves men. The next logical consequence of this is that Tram's man-crush on Lord Hamster isn't just a man-crush. Is Tram really at risk of falling in love with the architect of his brothers' downfall, soon-to-be his father's downfall, approaching his side's downfall.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:52 pm

mp122984 wrote:
Krennson wrote:not really. they're talking about Spacerock being captured, not destroyed. Captured cities do not produce units for their previous owners. that seems obvious. destruction isn't being discussed here, but we can go back to the battle of gobwin knob's finale for any questions about destruction.


That's... a good point, actually. How destroyed would a city have to be to stop producing anything? Are there levels to it? We know that fund-razing is seen as a short-term source of Schmuckers, but would it be possible to almost raze a town and still get something from it? Another economics issue I suppose.

Also, now that I think about my original post, something occurs to me. Just a guess here based on this:

First Intermission 40 wrote:In Ossomer's studied opinion, Dhrystone also popped the finest soldiers in Erfworld. They were the standard by which all others might be measured.


First Intermission 49 wrote:They had popped five Noble warlords, and no casters. Though there was no way to intentionally pop a caster, usually a new side would receive one among their first few warlords. But it was said that the Titans read the Ruler's heart, and their Fate. Jillian's heart was armed for battle. Surely the Titans sent her what she needed.


Text Updates 30 wrote:"Apparently all of Jetstone mourned her, though. They had a parade, the works, et cetera. King Slately was at a loss for what to do without a Dollamancer. They were all set to rewrite the side's whole strategy. When bam! I popped in Dhrystone."

Ace stood up and resumed pacing the room. "Dollamancy is Fate magic, so I know something about that. Jetstone must've been fated to have a Dollamancer. But I ain't like that broad they had before!"


Text Updates 42 wrote:"If he croaked today, might he be allowed to see her again in the hereafter? Would the Titans judge him so kindly? Could it be his final reward to know love again? ....The city falls, and you'll lose the heir you're popping. You may not be able to do anything about that, though. You have to face the facts."


Based on all this it sounds like Jetstone took Holly's death as a sign from Fate that they weren't meant to have a Dollamancer. Thus, they decided to pop a Military Warlord and specifically chose to pop him from Dhrystone. And then they got a Dollamancer instead. Ace, who probably is the way he is in part because he was popped in Dhrystone. I imagine that this caused massive resentment from everyone else, King Slately especially. As far as everyone else was concerned, they had squandered their presumably one chance to get a Dollamancer like Holly. While there may have been no way to predict this beforehand (would Predictamancy have helped?) hindsight is 20/20 - see Ace's statement, and perhaps Slately wondering if Fate had been trying to read his heart. Thus Ace is not only being compared to Holly, but to the "Holly II" others think he would have been if he had been popped in a more "suitable" location.

It also raises an interesting question - If popping is city-specific (as this update seems to indicate), then how much of a unit's personality is determined by where they pop? And could this be exploited to "force" unorthodoxy into warlords and maybe even casters?

Umm. I don't think you've actually established that casters pop in the place of warlords at random. You've only established that they pop at the founding of a side (at its first capital?).

Anyway, what you've quoted implies that casters pop totally at random. Meaning that a city has an unknown % chance of popping a caster per turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Sieggy » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:02 pm

It's not as much being gay as projecting an image of femininity which generally equates to weakness, I think. He's just not strong in the manner that Slately ever had cause to see before now. A victim of his old blindness and prejudices . . .

Also, has anyone considered that if he REALLY wants the money to promote Trem, all he has to do is call Charlie, tell him to get ready to pay some bounties, and then order Trem to have the archers topside take out as many Archons as they can . . . that might be enough to do the trick. It would mean having to supplicate someone he despises, of course, but that's one of those growth things that'll get him into the City of Heroes.

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Zeku » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:06 pm

Sygerrik wrote:If this is the way Royalty acts, I'm glad they're going obsolete. "Nobility, honor, decorum;" none of that mattered when he was on top of the world, squishing all the little people. But now that Slately sees the writing on the wall he's trying to get in good with the Titans. Notice he still doesn't care for non-Royals-- discarding Ace, threatening disbandment for interruptions. He's just a sad little man trying desperately to hold onto his power. He'd rather die than be reduced to fleeing from a commoner. Slately is a fool and always has been-- and just like Earth history, "royalty" and "nobility" are just code words for subjugation of the weak by the strong and a system of divine right that exists only to perpetuate itself and wallow in its own corruption.


"That's just like, your opinion man."

Parson may have been voted 'most likely to win,' but beyond his token distaste for wholesale murder, we don't see a wide spectrum of personality or social planning from his direction.

Slately is now trying to win, just like Parson has been from day 1. In fact, Trammenis seems to have taught him that a practical approach to victory is the best one, the most 'Royal' one. Now that Slately is beginning to fight like Parson, you criticize him?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby Oberon » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:15 pm

abb3w wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:And here I go to be contrarian. Because your interpretation is spot-on, were Slately an Earth character. But like you said, there's no reason why homophobia should exist at all in Erfworld. There's not even a clearly delineated notion of "regular" gender roles, for crying out loud!
Err... actually, there is: the casting of the Summon Perfect Warlord spell.

If there wasn't an analog of homophobia on Erfworld, it would be less familiar to Parson. Therefore, there is such an analog.
C'mon now, this is just a bit farcical. You are emphasizing the "familiar" portion of that quote and concluding that since Stupidworld has homophobia that Erf must. But if Parson was vehemently against homophobia and felt that homophobes were dangerous radicals, the "safe" portion of that quote would be violated. I do not believe that Stanley's instructions to Wanda could have resulted in Parson being transported to a world without procreation which also has neither clear gender roles nor a patriarchy such as all Judeo-Christian faiths have, but which somehow also manages to harbor the worst consequences of the Stupidworld gender role for women of childbearing and patriarchy plus the tenets of a faith which does not exist here. Really...

ParsonIsOP wrote:Likewise, there is the quaint belief that physical appearance mirrors character. A person who is squat and weak is harboring a moral weakness. It is a horrible thing to believe, since King Slately probably would have been a better man if it weren't for such superstitious nonsense.
Except that on Erf it isn't superstitious nonsense. Slately detailed his change as due to his sedentary lifestyle and lack of combat experience, and it was far more pronounced than can occur on Stupidworld. On Stupidworld people can go fat and soft, sure. But until very advanced age they do not shrink.
ParsonIsOP wrote:I'd also venture a guess and think that being gay is frowned on. But the travails of gender and sex aren't really the focus of Erfworld. Suffice it to say, I think that's part of the reason why Jillian and Wanda aren't public about their relationship. I'd imagine such dalliances were historically kept secret. Nevermind that Wanda and Jillian are on completely different sides and were of different stations even before that.
This is entirely speculative. We have seen no indication of any sexual act which is considered scandalous. Maggie told Parson that he had his pick of the GK women, any of them (which seemed to me to be an "including me" comment), for any purpose he decided to put them to. And she felt that his restraint in not raping the archons (assuming that the archons would even consider it as such, or if natural thinkamancy would make them enjoy it) was "charming." Jack was well aware that Wanda and Jillian had a relationship, and has never hinted that he thought it unusual or scandalous, nor did he have a homophobic reaction on the subject.

Aside from Slately's issues, which do not even seem to be mirrored by Don:
Don wrote:
Slately wrote:"Oh he is. He's very much so. So who cares if he's a— If his Signamancy is less...than manly." Slately cleared his throat. "I certainly don't. Any more. He ought to lead."
Don stared at Slately for a long moment, then let this pass and said simply, "He is leading."
there does not seem to be any other character who harbors a homophobic thought. And maybe this is why Slately's signamancy has him shrunk, pale, and fat. Because he is (or was, he seems to have been dealt a sufficient "wake up" call) ugly on the inside.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:41 pm

My speculation:
Tram is certainly demonstrating effeminate qualities. Because of this, I think *we* are reading 'homophobia' into Slately's reactions.

Tram excels at brokering peace agreements, treaties, etc. His stature does not scream "warrior" like Oss does.
Slately thought (erroneously) that because Tram preferred peace, he wouldn't have the stomach for war.

What he didn't realize is that when violence is the only option, someone like Tram will choose to end the conflict as quickly and finally as he can, so that there is less likelihood for more violence.
This means attacking in the most brutally efficient manner possible, so that the enemy is crushed and your side is still strong.

I think Slately realized that Tram's pacifism comes not from the inability to wage war, but from the desire to preserve his people.
When pushed, he will be a more effective warrior than his brothers, because his goal is and end to fighting.
Unlike Ansom and Oss, he does not revel in the fight itself, but sees it, like diplomacy, as a means to an end.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:46 pm

Oberon wrote:
ParsonIsOP wrote:Likewise, there is the quaint belief that physical appearance mirrors character. A person who is squat and weak is harboring a moral weakness. It is a horrible thing to believe, since King Slately probably would have been a better man if it weren't for such superstitious nonsense.
Except that on Erf it isn't superstitious nonsense. Slately detailed his change as due to his sedentary lifestyle and lack of combat experience, and it was far more pronounced than can occur on Stupidworld. On Stupidworld people can go fat and soft, sure. But until very advanced age they do not shrink.

If memory serves, I don't think he was ever known to be a stout and chiseled athlete. He attributes his body to the relative lack of combat he has actually seen. This may be true. But that isn't at issue here.

He is equating character with body shape. As pointed out, it's actually growth on his part when he decides that his kingdom has suffered because of his prejudices. He decides that Tramennis is actually the most fit to lead; not some chiseled warrior-athlete like Ossomer or a crowd-pleasing gallant like Ansom. Physical appearance has nothing to do with fitness for leadership. While Ossomer and Ansom are capable field commanders, they lack the diplomatic finesse and strategic insight of Tramennis. Tramennis is also the one with the most ambiguity tolerance.

Not everything can be judged by a person's appearance. So what else can you call it but superstition? It's like phrenology. Yes, your physical appearance may somewhat reflect your mental character. But it's not really a reliable way of determining psychology.

ParsonIsOP wrote:I'd also venture a guess and think that being gay is frowned on. But the travails of gender and sex aren't really the focus of Erfworld. Suffice it to say, I think that's part of the reason why Jillian and Wanda aren't public about their relationship. I'd imagine such dalliances were historically kept secret. Nevermind that Wanda and Jillian are on completely different sides and were of different stations even before that.
This is entirely speculative. We have seen no indication of any sexual act which is considered scandalous. Maggie told Parson that he had his pick of the GK women, any of them (which seemed to me to be an "including me" comment), for any purpose he decided to put them to. And she felt that his restraint in not raping the archons (assuming that the archons would even consider it as such, or if natural thinkamancy would make them enjoy it) was "charming." Jack was well aware that Wanda and Jillian had a relationship, and has never hinted that he thought it unusual or scandalous, nor did he have a homophobic reaction on the subject.

I grant that it is purely speculative. I just think it is likely or not improbable; but otherwise outside the focus of Erfworld.

As for the status thing:
There's a huge difference between having a fling with an underling and having a romance with said underling when you are in a position of power. Slately probably didn't air out his romance with the previous Dollamancer. It is also imprudent for Caesar to make his involvement with Bunny known for political reasons. The parallels to Jillian and Wanda are obvious here. There are sociopolitical reasons for keeping the relationship hush-hush. Which is why Jack only hints that he ever knew about it to Wanda.

It's like Thomas Jefferson having a black mistress. Having sex with her is one thing. Publicly putting her forward as a socially and legally recognized mate? Unthinkable.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby mp122984 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:49 pm

ParsonIsOP wrote:
Anyway, what you've quoted implies that casters pop totally at random. Meaning that a city has an unknown % chance of popping a caster per turn.


I don't think cities pop units at random. Unlike feral hexes, what cities can pop is determined by whatever criteria and decided by the ruler, although he/she can delegate this choice to their Chief Warlord.

First Intermission 49 wrote:They had popped five Noble warlords, and no casters. Though there was no way to intentionally pop a caster, usually a new side would receive one among their first few warlords.


Big cities can pop warlords. If caster can't be intentionally popped, but usually pop among the warlords, this implies that a caster occasionally pops in lieu of a warlord. (The other possibility - that an infantry unit can spontaneously become a caster when promoted to warlord - while not yet denied seems remote to nil.)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:54 pm

mp122984 wrote:
ParsonIsOP wrote:
Anyway, what you've quoted implies that casters pop totally at random. Meaning that a city has an unknown % chance of popping a caster per turn.


I don't think cities pop units at random. Unlike feral hexes, what cities can pop is determined by whatever criteria and decided by [url="http://www.erfworld.com/2009/09/summer-updates-037/"]the ruler,[/url] although he/she can delegate this choice to their [url="http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE040_Cloudbreaker.jpg"]Chief Warlord.[/url]

First Intermission 49 wrote:They had popped five Noble warlords, and no casters. Though there was no way to intentionally pop a caster, usually a new side would receive one among their first few warlords.


[url="http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F043a.jpg"]Big cities can pop warlords.[/url] If caster can't be intentionally popped, but usually pop among the warlords, this implies that a caster occasionally pops in lieu of a warlord. (The other possibility - that an infantry unit can spontaneously become a caster when promoted to warlord - while not yet denied seems remote to nil.)

No it doesn't.

The passage referring to Jillian's new capital says that new capital cities tend to get casters at a higher than normal rate and that casters pop at random. It may not be something that pops in a queue at all. It just shows up in the city one day without anybody paying for it or specifically having put out an order of any sort.

The passage you link says that Parson doesn't know where casters come from at the time he made the entry.

I'm sorry, but your entire premise lacks evidence for it. Slately's resentment is entirely because Ace fails to do exactly what the previous Dollmancer did and like it. He sees Ace's experiments to be pointless trinkets which is being made at the kingdom's expense. We have no evidence that it's because they wanted a warlord or have concluded that it was Fate that they lost their previous Dollmancer. You are blindly asserting this.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:08 am

ParsonIsOP wrote:
mp122984 wrote:
ParsonIsOP wrote:
Anyway, what you've quoted implies that casters pop totally at random. Meaning that a city has an unknown % chance of popping a caster per turn.


I don't think cities pop units at random. Unlike feral hexes, what cities can pop is determined by whatever criteria and decided by [url="http://www.erfworld.com/2009/09/summer-updates-037/"]the ruler,[/url] although he/she can delegate this choice to their [url="http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE040_Cloudbreaker.jpg"]Chief Warlord.[/url]

First Intermission 49 wrote:They had popped five Noble warlords, and no casters. Though there was no way to intentionally pop a caster, usually a new side would receive one among their first few warlords.


[url="http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F043a.jpg"]Big cities can pop warlords.[/url] If caster can't be intentionally popped, but usually pop among the warlords, this implies that a caster occasionally pops in lieu of a warlord. (The other possibility - that an infantry unit can spontaneously become a caster when promoted to warlord - while not yet denied seems remote to nil.)

No it doesn't.

The passage referring to Jillian's new capital says that new capital cities tend to get casters at a higher than normal rate and that casters pop at random. It may not be something that pops in a queue at all. It just shows up in the city one day without anybody paying for it or specifically having put out an order of any sort.

The passage you link says that Parson doesn't know where casters come from at the time he made the entry.

I'm sorry, but your entire premise lacks evidence for it. Slately's resentment is entirely because Ace fails to do exactly what the previous Dollmancer did and like it. He sees Ace's experiments to be pointless trinkets which is being made at the kingdom's expense. We have no evidence that it's because they wanted a warlord or have concluded that it was Fate that they lost their previous Dollmancer. You are blindly asserting this.


Er... are you asserting that casters in general pop randomly, without being ordered? As far as I can tell, we've always assumed that casters pop in lieu of warlords - what makes you think differently?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby splexis » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:13 am

pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:
splexis wrote:nice lightsaber.


I think that is just a saber. It has a polished finish and is reflecting the light.


Sabers are curved, have crossbars, and typically have basket hilts. Also: why is the sharp and curved edge of the (slightly curved) katana right next to it not also shining. In fact why is the katana noticeably duller? No, my friend: that's an elegant weapon of a more enlightened age right there.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 042

Postby ParsonIsOP » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:19 am

WaterMonkey314 wrote:Er... are you asserting that casters in general pop randomly, without being ordered? As far as I can tell, we've always assumed that casters pop in lieu of warlords - what makes you think differently?


They had popped five Noble warlords, and no casters. Though there was no way to INTENTIONALLY pop a caster, usually a new side would receive one among their first few warlords. But it was said that the Titans read the Ruler's heart, and their Fate. Jillian's heart was armed for battle. Surely the Titans sent her what she needed.

Does anybody actually read anymore? Either way, we agree that the process is random. I also say that it may not appear in the queue. I am advancing another possibility that is ignored in favor of your chosen belief. It could very well be the case that the caster shows up in queue and people see it coming. Maybe it does replace a warlord in queue that an order was already placed for.

However, there is no evidence that it ever cost Slately money to pop Ace.

By the by, the burden of proof is on you. Not me. I haven't made a claim to knowledge. You have. Stop wasting my time covering basic etiquette for things you should already know.
Last edited by ParsonIsOP on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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