Book 2 - Page 55

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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Swodaems » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:56 am

Spot wrote:I can't believe that nobody has yet mentioned the obvious sequence of coming events:

(a) Don has Benny make a gem worth a lot of money.
(b) the gem needs to be physically dispatched as quickly as possible to Stately.
(c) the quickest route between Don and Stately, is through the magic kingdom.
(d) a huge hulking warlord, who can cut the head off of a war-weinerdog in single stroke of the sword, is about to be traveling through the magic kingdom...
(e) ...and using the exact same gate that the gem courier will need to go through.
(f) PROFIT!!! (for Parson).

I can believe that no one has mentioned it because there are 3 decent reasons that sequence won't happen.
1. Via Bunny, Don can get decent intel on the battle (either by having bunny poll info from allied Jetstone units or having the bat in the hex do recon,(From the top of the tower, the bat an see that GK units have left the Atrium and will be in the process of starting to knockdown the Tower. Does not take a genius to figure out that there must be GK units in the dungeon aka. near the portal)) so Don is gonna know in short order the Portal room has been lost or is too insecure for transit.
2. Jetstone and Transylvito both have hats. (As proof for both sides' hats, I present Cubbins and Bea's method of transit for her last missive to Don King. (I spec that Cubbins probably made Hats for the entire RCC.)) These can probably be used to transport the gem in lieu of sending either Bunny, Ben, or TV's dollamancer.
3. Parson's passage is going to be an EVENT in the MK. There will be an impossible warlord. both Hippimancers and thinkamancers present as guards, possibly other casters trying to kill Parson, and anybody looking at the scene is going to realize this is not something to step into. They could potentially get to Jetstone's portal before the fecal matter hits the rotary air impeller, but that leads to the caster courier being killed and decrypted by Wanda, not Parson.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby JohnATallon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:03 am

GaryThunder wrote:
And how would you explain disbanding a caster to Caesar? Disbanding the caster wouldn't get you the gem, it would only feed Caesar's paranoia.


I can just see Caesar's reaction when (not if) he finds out that Don disbanded Benny just to stop Benny from talking to him. It involves a lot of blood.

I'm not sure at this point that there's anything that Don can do to ensure that he lives on, as king or no. I kind of suspect that before long, he's going to have to make a decision as to whether it's better, in whatever scales he uses to weigh such decisions, for Transylvito to be ruled by a commoner, or not to exist at all.


It's tough. On one hand, losing Transylvito entirely cripples/kills Faq, and with the fall of Jetstone and the beheading of Haggar, that's the RCC pretty much finished against the might of the Arkenpliers. But on the other hand, if Transylvito persists but loses its Royal status, it can't really claim a stake in this fight of Royalty v. Arkentools, not to mention that Caesar would cut off Faq anyway upon assuming Rulership.


I think Faq can stand on its own. Jillian is going to be sacking Gobwinknob cities on her way home, and will be able to bank a tidy sum. Jillian has all the contacts she made as a mercenary, and the resources of a kingdom. She'll be able to get the kind of work she likes, even if it's not against GK now. She's fiscally secure and independent of Charlie and Translyvito now.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Vettius » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:38 am

Trouble in transylvito hmmm, guess we will tune in next week for more bat time on the bat channel
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby justamessenger » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:50 am

One thing we may be overlooking is Caesar's intellect. While we can all agree that he is hotheaded, it is possible that he will be persuaded by Don that it is in TS' best interest to facilitate Tramennis' promotion to heir of JS, if for no other reason that a failure to do so could result in the loss of yet another TS ally.

Also, in the eventuality that Caesar *does* attempt a coup d'etat against Don, I cannot see Don doing anything other than disbanding him, if that is an available option. To do otherwise would cast doubt on TS's prospects, which are already shaky at best. Should that happen, the question becomes whether or not Benny will make the gem or whether he will continue to refuse...

So many layers, machinations and storylines moving forward...the big question remaining unanswered: What are Jillian and Charlie up to?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Sieggy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:42 pm

Jillian's going home to play with her new toy. Vinnie's reaction to this ought to be amusing.

Charlie, OTOH, is probably suppressing a raging desire to call Tramennis and say "Hey, smart boy, I freaking WARNED you, didn't I? But did you listen? Noooo . . .". I doubt he can do anything this turn, though next turn he may try something. Now, a question I have is whether or not GK gets their turn after JS (the turn sequence was merely reversed by Kingworld) this day, or whether they get their next turn tomorrow morning (their turn was pre-emptively ended).

And I still can't understand why Slately didn't order his archers (who, last we saw, were still up on top of the tower) to shoot down as many Archons as possible in an effort to raise the funds from Charlie needed to promote Trem. I can see bugging out with the casters, but since the way things are going the archers may be disbanded next turn anyway, why not get some use out of them while he can? If nothing else, he could be begging for a smaller loan from Don.

And . . . since the Dwagons that were grounded can now attack the tower, can they go up and skrag all the archers topside?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Tensor » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:57 pm

Don't know if it's been clearly referred to yet, but look at panel 1 then 2. You see the line of 4 Jetstones (bottom to top - blonde, some guy, guy in cape, redhead) go from yellow Jetstone to red Decrypted. Nice, subtle way to show the sweeping futility of fighting against someone who can raise your own dead to fight against you. We should call Wanda Azalin.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby the_tick_rules » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:41 pm

I saw that. The trick with the decrypted is either to take them at range or fight defensively.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby justamessenger » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:48 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:I saw that. The trick with the decrypted is either to take them at range or fight defensively.


Or perhaps with action figures carrying the proper accessories? I am sure that grenades, dynamite, firearms, jetpacks and whatever else Ace can concoct might help considerably.

Yes, I am a fanboy, it is true. Ace has shown the ability to literally change the face of Erfworld warfare with his inventions. It makes me wonder if there are others out there with a similar knack for invention, but who serve more 'enlightened' rulers that allow them to run with it.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby the_tick_rules » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:51 pm

That is a good point. The decrypted are new, over turns more effective means of dealing with them are sure to be developed. Ace could definately be a leader with some kinda gizmos.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Decorus » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:56 pm

Charlie is not panicking over the turn of events.
Charlie will not intervene he did what he could and any further tampering would require direct intervention which goes against his desire to maintain a working relationship with Parson.
Charlie will likely change his plans as his plans and Wanda's are not mutually exclusive so he may attempt to turn Wanda to his side.

Decrypted aren't an issue. Wanda's ability to decrypt troops you lose is an issue.
The problem is how to wipe out GK's forces without them just replenishing thier losses by decrypting your losses.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby the_tick_rules » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:08 pm

Charlie is worried about some stuff though. GK winning cause they don't like him so if they take out alot of sides Charlie can't get clients to pay him. With the estimations of his massive upkeep costs he needs a lot of cash. He is, or should be, worried about his neutrality being questioned, which it is starting to be.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby teratorn » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:38 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:That is a good point. The decrypted are new, over turns more effective means of dealing with them are sure to be developed. Ace could definately be a leader with some kinda gizmos.


By the way, what did Trammenis do with all the dead in the hex occupied by Ansom? There were droves of Haggar dead, and we know a few Jetstone died there. Dead twools will probably disappear at the start of next turn, but enemy troops will be there for Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Morgaln » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:28 pm

Decorus wrote:Charlie is not panicking over the turn of events.
Charlie will not intervene he did what he could and any further tampering would require direct intervention which goes against his desire to maintain a working relationship with Parson.
Charlie will likely change his plans as his plans and Wanda's are not mutually exclusive so he may attempt to turn Wanda to his side.

Decrypted aren't an issue. Wanda's ability to decrypt troops you lose is an issue.
The problem is how to wipe out GK's forces without them just replenishing thier losses by decrypting your losses.


Well, in theory there are several ways to accomplish that:

- Stack bonuses to counter Wanda's bonuses, so you can kill more of them while losing less of your troops.
- Try to engage them in a battlefield that allows you to bring heavies to bear, which should be able to kill a lot of their infantry without dying themselves (see the battle at Expository Bridge).
- Find ways to kill them without engaging directly (archery and flyer support, for example, along with the aforementioned toys constructed by Ace)
- Most importantly: get a group of snipers that can target Wanda directly and thereby prevent her from going to the front lines for combat decrypting.

Personally I think GK would be susceptible to guerilla tactics; small stacks that work behind the lines to interrupt the dragon relay, dust small groups of decrypted and generally make a nuisance of themselves. Wanda can't be everywhere at once to decrypt at every front, especially if you have to start accompanying her with a sizeable force for fear of encountering a guerilla stack. Incidentally, Charlie's archons would seem to be the ideal units for that kind of tactic...
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Carne » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:42 pm

All this talk about disbanding, in light of panels one and two of the comic, has me thinking...

Ex-Jetstone Decrypted gain artifact bonus + croakamancer bonus, plus potentially some bonus from stack Leadership. Unless the living Jetstone troops are gaining as big or bigger bonus from their side modifiers, it stands to reason that the Decrypted *may* be stronger after death than before. If that's the case, in the hallway skirmish, you'd expect Wanda to end up with a greater number of forces than she started with.

If that is a logical assumption, wouldn't the smart thing to do be to pull all troops out of areas where battles are happening/are likely (as they attempted during the Atrium fight), and cede control to the invaders? If a pull-back is impossible for some reason, the second best option would be to disband the at-risk troops, in order to deny the forces to your opponent. Fighting valiantly only makes your enemy more of a threat.

The only thing that makes sense in this situation is that both sides think there's a reasonable chance of victory. But I'm getting mixed messages about exactly what the odds are, though it seems that, now the falling exploit is over, GK definitely has the upper hand. This is borne out by Charlie's assessment, and the fact that Tramennis' official plan is to evacuate the King prior to the fall of the city.

I wonder if much of the drama could be avoided by just surrendering the city to GK. I wonder what happens in that case - if the ex-owners are now stuck in the city, or if it's like the Civilization series, where enemy forces from a traded city end up in the nearest friendly hex after transfer?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby joosy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:58 pm

Also note that Benjamin is not a native of Transylvito. He is either a captured/turned unit or some other mechanism by which casters join a different side. His loyalty is probably very good, but not as good as if he was a native unit.

I wonder what effect Bunny is using amidst all of this inner turmoil in Transylvito. Caesar believes that he and she are secret lovers and it is his motivating force. What we dont' know (yet) is if Bunny truly shares those feelings or if it just Don's way of keeping a discreet thumb on his CWL.
When push comes to shove I am surmising that his Bunny who tips things into one side's favor or another's. Remember loyalty is an unknowable stat which can be influence by Thinkamancy (again, Bunny).

If/When the coup occurs and Caesar is in power, I imagine that spells trouble for FAQ. I believe Caesars first line of action will be to recoup all of his sides financial losses to FAQ. I wonder how Vinnie is going to handle things if he is determined to be an enemy unit. Perhaps he and Ansom will be chained side by side in the FAQ dungeon. (bracing myself for the inevitable hoyay) Also, without Charlie's backing I don't think Vanna will be around very long either. Perhaps the money Jillian gets from razing GK cities will be enough to get her out of this scrape. I also think that Caesar may be underestimating Jillian. Jillian saw how Transylvito fights (using weaker units piled on with leadership bonuses) and may come up with some unique counterattacks. (making them break stack, targetting leadership only, etc.)
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby name lips » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:04 pm

Charlie didn't freak out until he saw that GK had decrypted Archons. That's when he became completely, totally, in all ways ANTI-Wanda. He cannot tolerate the notion that his secrets might be compromised. He cannot tolerate the notion that even if all of Wanda's archons are dusted, that she might be able to kill and decrypt more. He can't sell his mercenary services to any enemies of GK without worrying that more archons will be turned. That limits him in ways he cannot tolerate. He's fenced in by his own paranoia.

He seems to define himself as The One Who Knows What's Going On. Information is his currency. Until now, he had absolutely no fear that his information could, in any way, be stolen from him. Wanda is the one unit on Erf who can do it.

He needs Wanda dead. Right now, I'm pretty sure that's his primary, driving goal. He's anti-GK only because Wanda is on their side. If she split off and started a new side, he would jump at the chance to join GK to fight her (not that Stanley would approve, but still).
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Krennson » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:43 pm

joosy wrote:Also note that Benjamin is not a native of Transylvito. He is either a captured/turned unit or some other mechanism by which casters join a different side. His loyalty is probably very good, but not as good as if he was a native unit.


do you have text evidence for this, or are you just assuming that based on ben's personal appearance?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Arlon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:25 pm

Maybe Bunny will put a wrench in the works if Caesar stages a coup.

It would work with Shakespeare.

"Et tu Bunny? Then fall Caesar..."
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby joosy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:16 pm

Krennson wrote:
joosy wrote:Also note that Benjamin is not a native of Transylvito. He is either a captured/turned unit or some other mechanism by which casters join a different side. His loyalty is probably very good, but not as good as if he was a native unit.


do you have text evidence for this, or are you just assuming that based on ben's personal appearance?


It is based on his appearance. Given the massive conformity of each side (eye color, pupil/no pupil, skin color, etc) I feel it is a very comfortable assumption.

If you want a real crazy and baseless assumption to sink your fangs into, here you go: Faq units are the only side that we have seen with a pupil. Perhaps Parson is a transcended Faq soul returning to carry out Faq's destiny of Erfworld peace.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby effataigus » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:21 pm

Hmm, casters seem mostly exempt from the rule of "massive conformity". I'd have a hard time putting any casters in their matching sides with any confidence (with the exception of Ace and Bunny) :)

Bunny being a vampire does help your case though!
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