Book 2 - Page 55

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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby crex90 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:04 pm

So...Caesar's name is Signomancy after all.

He will lead a coup. And he will be successful.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby joosy » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:19 pm

My assumption is that as a MoneyMancer Ben is more efficient at creating gems. Assuming all casters can convert schmuckers to gems.

All casters can cast any spell, it seems, they just prefer and/or are proficient at one branch or another.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby BCCroaker » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:30 pm

I don't see any Heavy Hobgobs in the GK attack, so heavies generally musn't be tunnel capable.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Catalyst » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:37 pm

My opinion seems to be against what most everyone else thinks. I do not think Caesar is going to lead a coup. We really do not even know how that sort of thing works, it is probably very difficult and it really does not seem like popular opinion (or it's equivalent) is that far against Don. Besides, it was attempted before and Don was able to come out just fine. I think Don is more powerful than he is given credit for. While i admit it is possible that Caesar will want to lead a coup, i really do not think it is going to be successful.
Basically, i just do not think it is a sure deal, which is what most people seem to be saying. It is not like "oh, that is the last straw for Caesar, it is all over for Don." It is far from a simple thing to do to lead a coup, maybe even harder in Erfworld with Loyalty and such, and therefore it is not guaranteed to succeed (otherwise more people would try to do it).

I have a question though, i never really paid 100% attention to Caesar, have we actually seen Caesar show any signs of wanting to lead a coup or being mad at Don personally (obviously he really disagrees with some things he has done, but that does not mean he is about to rebel)? I would really appreciate the links or the references.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby genuis101 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:39 pm

I think Don wants to be stopped, I think Don knows this is a mistake and wants Ceaser to end this for him. The question about why he needs a gem is valid, unless Charlie has special rules that only work for him with regards to money.

I still think Ace is just a red herring filler to cover Rob's boredom with this project, but if he actually comes to do anything I will admit I am wrong.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby nth » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:45 pm

j_t wrote:
OneHugeTuck wrote:3. Man, the Arkenpliers are powerful. I wonder what we're not seeing about the Arkenhammer. Taming dwagons an shooting lightning doesn't seem to be at all comparable.


They also tranform walnuts into pigeons.


"Don't write off the pigeons.
Sure, unled pigeons are real weak.
But with a warlord bonus?
Theyyy're...more like basic infantry units.
Havin' the chief warlord in the hex adds another bonus, so every pigeon we got here is like advanced infantry.
The ones in Stanley's personal stack'll have his full bonus, so they're almost like heavies.

And we have a flippin' ton of walnuts..."
Last edited by nth on Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Decorus » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:15 pm

Sizemore is really good at Dirtmancy and thats all he is good at not for his lack of trying to learn other spells.
Wanda has the talent to learn any discipline she wants to put her mind to, but she is only interested in Croakmancy.

So Casters are not automaticly able to cast any spell, some have the talent to expand and others don't.
They seemingly don't have issues using scrolls.
Keep in mind Wanda's use of thinkamancy also showed her limits due to not having gotten proper training, but she is incredibly talented when it comes to magic.

I'm pretty sure Don could just transfer the amount to Jetstone's treasury, but given how Jetstone's capitol and its treasury will fall to GK this turn there is a good reason why a gem is the better choice.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Carne » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:34 pm

Sixty wrote:In panel 1 and 2 I notice a decrypted with red armor and black trim instead of the other way around. I wonder if that has any significance. Maybe occasionally you get a "shiny" unit like in Pokemon, but I somehow doubt it. :D


The red seems to correspond to Jetstone yellow, and the black to Jetstone white.

The flying fellow in panel 1 has a cape.

Mr. Mustache (LaCrosse, is it?) in panel two has a fully yellow breastplate and a cape.

My guess is Flying Fellow is the same unit type/designation as Mustache, and ended up with corresponding GK coloring.

I would have said "that's what decrypted Jetstone warlords look like" but Antium clearly didn't come out of the wash looking like that. Could be the difference between piker/stabber/something else, but Flying Fellow is wielding a sword almost identical to the others in the same panel. 2-hand specialist? Unusually low- or high-level? Shock trooper? Some other kind of unexplained special? Anyone remember if LaCrosse was anything out of the ordinary besides a coward (Flying Fellow certainly doesn't fit that mold).
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby President_Allosaurus » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:44 pm

Carne wrote:
Sixty wrote:In panel 1 and 2 I notice a decrypted with red armor and black trim instead of the other way around. I wonder if that has any significance. Maybe occasionally you get a "shiny" unit like in Pokemon, but I somehow doubt it. :D


The red seems to correspond to Jetstone yellow, and the black to Jetstone white.

The flying fellow in panel 1 has a cape.

Mr. Mustache (LaCrosse, is it?) in panel two has a fully yellow breastplate and a cape.

My guess is Flying Fellow is the same unit type/designation as Mustache, and ended up with corresponding GK coloring.

I would have said "that's what decrypted Jetstone warlords look like" but Antium clearly didn't come out of the wash looking like that. Could be the difference between piker/stabber/something else, but Flying Fellow is wielding a sword almost identical to the others in the same panel. 2-hand specialist? Unusually low- or high-level? Shock trooper? Some other kind of unexplained special? Anyone remember if LaCrosse was anything out of the ordinary besides a coward (Flying Fellow certainly doesn't fit that mold).


I think you mean Jetstone gold and silver. And the decrypted troops have trimming not present on the Jetstone design. The cape-wearers also have different schemes for their colourings on both sides. I think the capes are primarily a Jetstone and Jetstone decrypted thing, though- Sylvia has none.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:46 pm

It might be regular Jetstone warlords v. Noble Jetstone warlords, or maybe just Nobles of a certain station, that get the yellow armor.

Incredible update. Top notch. The conversion of Jetstone's front line and the portrait of Queen Bea - "Caesar doesn't know what's at stake here." You think that word bubble was placed right next to Bea's face for no reason?

Between Wanda's huge direct bonus to her Decrypted units, which stacks with the leadership bonuses from the Decrypted Jetstone warlords, and the Arkenpliers themselves picking up all the Jetstone casualties, there's no way the Jetstone forces stood a chance. And now Wanda's force is bigger, Jetstone's is smaller, and Slately's futile last stand just became even more so.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:05 pm

Two immediate reactions

1. I was right, there are multiple Scarlets.

2. Once again, what happens in the comic is exactly what we expected and it is still an amazing read.

Now we get to see a battle of wills and popularity between Don and Caesar. It's the closest thing to a democratic election that Erfworld has. Unless Don digs into the mafia part of his theme and gets Benny with an icepick. That's when we discover that Bunny has a minor in moneymancy. Or maybe Bunny will throw aome pixie dust.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:17 pm

oops, mis read, ignore,
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby ademus05 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:42 pm

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:So in order: Benjamin have a chat with Caesar, Caesar make a coup against Don and win, Jetstone is denied money to promote Tram, Ossomer Turn back to Jetstone seeing his brother/ father in imminent danger of becoming something he started loathing, Slately Get killed, Ossomer become ruler of Jestone, Wanda is pissed off to have lost a puppet, Tram make a joke about Ossomer's sense of fashion having recovered... I doubt I can guess anything that far.


Slately also might be able to get the money necessary to promote Tram from Charlie. Of course, that would put some sort of horrible burden on Jetstone, but Charlie does seem to be going out of his way to help them. He gave them the dossier on Parson for free.

I'm not sure that Ossomer can be promoted to ruler now that he is a decrypted.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Beeskee » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:43 pm

I don't think Benny has technically refused the order yet, he's going to get more information first (by talking to Caesar) before making a final decision. Casters seem to get a lot of leeway with orders when compared to regular units and warlords. Probably because they are much more valuable. Remember, rulers have no way to directly replace a caster, they have to pop warlords and hope for the best.

Sides seem to base their general strategies around what casters they have too, so any changes there result in huge, possibly devastating, consequences. IF Benny says "No", Don may have to go with it.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby ademus05 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:53 pm

Krennson wrote:
name lips wrote:It looks like transfering Schmuckers isn't a trivial matter. You apparently can't, as a ruler, just declare "I hereby transfer 10000 Schmuckers to Jetstone."

Do Schmuckers even have a physical manifestation? Are they actual coins you can pick up and manipulate? Or are they an invisible, abstract "stat" belonging to a Side? Perhaps you can only physically move around gems. And gems, once turned into Schmuckers, are intangible and unmovable. That would be why Don isn't just pouring some Schmuckers into a Hat to transfer them -- they don't exist. Whoever owns the treasury has access to them, and that's it. Maybe most sides keep some Gems lying around un-Schmuckered so they have something to trade.

But a Moneymancer... can turn Schmuckers back into gems, so they can be transferred from Side to Side. Maybe Transylvito never keeps Gems lying around -- why would they, since Benny can just make gems whenever he wants? Part of the benefit of having a Moneymancer around, you don't have to worry about things like that.

I'm betting he can make a gem of any value, subtracting Schmuckers from the treasury and "pouring" them into a gem. This is a magical world, so I don't see any reason why a gem would have to be larger to be worth more Schmuckers. Just toss it into a Hat, and you can transfer it to a Hat owned by a different Side. Then their ruler can turn the gem back into Schmuckers again.


If you can't just transfer schmuckers to someone, how do people pay charlie? Jillian spent most of her purse buying a thinkagram from charlie once...

And I think that any caster can create gems: all parson has told us is that it costs 'juice' to create a a gem, not that it requires a moneymancer.

If only moneymancers can create gems, and only gems are tradeable, then most sides wouldn't be able to pay charlie, and jetstone wouldn't be able to pay transylvito back; jetstone doesn't have a moneymancer.


I'm not certain why Don needs a gem at all.... maybe he wants to avoid the possibility that jetstones treasury will fall to Gobwin Knob in the next five minutes, taking any direct transfer with it?
as for why he's asking a moneymancer to make the gem, instead of just having bunny do it, presumably preserving a thinkamancers juice is more important, and as the kingdom 'accountant', it's considered polite to involve Ben in all financial matters anyway.

And remember, since Transylvito is allied with jetstone, it's still their turn at the moment... none of this is happening off-turn for them.


I wonder if there are some rules we're not seeing about when you are and aren't allowed to transfer Schmuckers (perhaps they transfer at the start of turn only?) and that a gem is needed to transfer funds mid-battle.

As for paying Charlie, there seems to be some evidence that contracts are binding on Erfworld. Tram suggests striking a contract with Stanley with a million Schmucker penalty. This would only make sense if such a contract is magically binding. If they weren't binding, then right now no other side would be able to enforce the contract's terms. We also know that Charlie required a contract before saving Prince Ansom. Perhaps that's how he gets paid-- he has the person sign a contract and collects his money when appropriate.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Carne » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:31 pm

President_Allosaurus wrote:I think you mean Jetstone gold and silver. And the decrypted troops have trimming not present on the Jetstone design. The cape-wearers also have different schemes for their colourings on both sides. I think the capes are primarily a Jetstone and Jetstone decrypted thing, though- Sylvia has none.


White and silver, yellow and gold: sure, I'll go with that. Never really struck me as being particularly silver though, but what is silver except really shiny white? As for the trim, I'd mark that down as the sort of thing that gives dwagons stripes - a bit of decryption flair, maybe. Capes are a Jetstone thing, but I seem to recall a forum argument over whether they signified anything.

Mostly just throwing out whatever associations come to mind in the hopes someone might pick one up and come up with a better explanation. After all, there's got to be some reason he's different, and I'd like to think its more than just a Photoshop Fill spillover on the artwork :)


GaryThunder wrote:It might be regular Jetstone warlords v. Noble Jetstone warlords, or maybe just Nobles of a certain station, that get the yellow armor.


Seems like a reasonable explanation.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Krennson » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:15 pm

Seerow wrote:My personal guess as to why the Don wants to use a gem:

What if Moneymancers are able to use schmuckers to create a gem of greater value than the schmuckers in the treasury? ie some sort of efficiency bonus from a moneymancer being the one creating the gem? What if without Ben's help, they don't have enough schmuckers for the loan.

Just a thought.


more likely, Ben can use his juice more efficiently by just improving the treasury directly.... otherwise he'd just spend every turn making gems and then redeeming them.

however,

1. moneymancers probably require less juice to make a gem than other casters do,

2. Involving benjamin, the chief accountant, is probably just basic politeness.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby President_Allosaurus » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:00 pm

Carne wrote:White and silver, yellow and gold: sure, I'll go with that. Never really struck me as being particularly silver though, but what is silver except really shiny white? As for the trim, I'd mark that down as the sort of thing that gives dwagons stripes - a bit of decryption flair, maybe. Capes are a Jetstone thing, but I seem to recall a forum argument over whether they signified anything.

Mostly just throwing out whatever associations come to mind in the hopes someone might pick one up and come up with a better explanation. After all, there's got to be some reason he's different, and I'd like to think its more than just a Photoshop Fill spillover on the artwork :)


GaryThunder wrote:It might be regular Jetstone warlords v. Noble Jetstone warlords, or maybe just Nobles of a certain station, that get the yellow armor.


Seems like a reasonable explanation.


The gold-armoured units are also all the ones with capes! And their armour IS different as a decrypted. I like the idea that Noble Warlords get different armour, though, but given their free will, they might just get to pick if they're high enough rank- Princes certainly do.

How dare you besmirch me! ;) There are no colouring errors in this page.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Swodaems » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:17 pm

fehler wrote:
Swodaems wrote:Sadly, the only thought that comes to mind right now is that the picture behind Don's desk is a really odd portrait to keep around of one's own daughter.


I strongly disagree. The pose is one of strength, yet feminine. I almost expect her to be holding a bow, ala Artemis. Its not a "sexy, come hither, laying on a couch/bed" portrait. This is how a Warrior Princess stands.

Her pose is how a Warrior Princess sits if it is indeed of a warrior princess.
And her pose aside, she is still wearing a nightie.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 55

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:37 pm

BCCroaker wrote:I don't see any Heavy Hobgobs in the GK attack, so heavies generally musn't be tunnel capable.


In Book 1, Parson sends hobs into GK's tunnels (mounted on spidews) so yeah, upweighting seems to have made a difference.
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