Book 2 – Text Updates 043

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby mmooneybsa » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:08 pm

Jillian should have captured at least 1 low level Decrypted, for a turning test. If turning of Decrypted is possible it should be much more difficult for level 10 high loyalty Ansom to be turned than a level 1 piker. Valla should have a more difficult time turing Ansom even if he was not Decrypted. They should really collect many Decrypted & be trying to see if the 'mass turn' spell works on low level Decrypted, to a similar or lesser or no extent in comparison to regular units. Then (possibly failing that) attempt some individual turns on those most likely to have low loyalty.

If they can be turned there should then be a preference to collect Decrypted, because Wanda would not be able to Decrypt them again. The dead would become dead, instead of becomming the enemy.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby imany » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:12 pm

I find Jillian less and less impressive every time she shows up. She and Wanda both have emotional issues that cloud their judgment in very destructive ways. Jillian's gung-ho rush-everything attitude consistently put her in peril as a barbarian and could very well destroy her side, and her big Jitterati win, the reason the Jitterati warlord respects her so much, wasn't even her own plan. Plot-wise, she might need to turn Ansom so someone can stop her from making rash, stupid decisions, since Charlie doesn't seem like he is going to be actively helping her anymore. At least Wanda has Parson to save her ass.

I am sure Ansom is right about checking for surprises, especially since Faq is still dependent on Charlie for Vanna and probably owes a boatload of Shmuckers to Don. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason he would be unwilling to turn is because Jillian, as a Ruler, has shown lack of caution and clearheaded battle planning.

Interesting that Progrock was manned by 2/3 living, though. How long was it under Stanley's control? I sort of thought Wanda was just Decrypting everyone who was a former enemy soldier, given the upkeep costs and all, and I also thought that at the rate they were going conquering that Decrypted would far outnumber living units.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:14 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:I'm not sure I like turnamancy and I'm not sure I like the turning mechanic, at least as it has been portrayed thus far.


Preach it on, sibling of unknown gender!

Fortunately, this is one of the points where Plotamancy trumps gameplay-like aspects. The ability to convert characters cheaply (for some value of cheaply) means the notion of character is useless. If anyone's motivations can be rewritten on a whim, their personality is irrelevant. Stories cannot stand for this to happen, so Turnamancy will find itself limited by whatever Plotamancy means become plausible. And I for one could not be happier. The sooner that t-mancy is killed dead, the better.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:27 pm

imany wrote:Interesting that Progrock was manned by 2/3 living, though. How long was it under Stanley's control? I sort of thought Wanda was just Decrypting everyone who was a former enemy soldier, given the upkeep costs and all, and I also thought that at the rate they were going conquering that Decrypted would far outnumber living units.


There is a simple possible explanation, the thing was initially manned by a small crew of decrypted, and in intervening turns a number of stacks of regular infantry were popped.

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Preach it on, sibling of unknown gender!


What, Ansan isn't obviously a guy's name? ;) I tend to find that you and I agree on most things, even if we disagree (strongly) on an area or two.

Fortunately, this is one of the points where Plotamancy trumps gameplay-like aspects. The ability to convert characters cheaply (for some value of cheaply) means the notion of character is useless. If anyone's motivations can be rewritten on a whim, their personality is irrelevant. Stories cannot stand for this to happen, so Turnamancy will find itself limited by whatever Plotamancy means become plausible. And I for one could not be happier. The sooner that t-mancy is killed dead, the better.


Yeah, I suppose that's true, but I would personally like it a bit better if it were harder to do. Maybe some kind of exposition of the mechanics would make sense. Right now, it just seems too easy.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby atalex » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:51 pm

multilis wrote:"The fact that Ansom claims to not be a mere puppet of Wanda does not mean he in fact is not. He might lie, or he might deceive himself. This update leaves that old debate unresolved- because we're not entirely sure that Ansom is a puppet of Wanda either."

I think no one knows for sure including Ansom or Wanda, but... Wanda suspects that decrypted can turn, she left Ansom behind at the bridge for that reason. (She gave reason that she worried about his reaction to killing father/brother)


And IMO, she was flat-out lying. She was going to meet with Jillian. She didn't want Ansom there because he represented the only rival for Jillian's affections and she didn't want the complication of all three of them interacting.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:57 pm

atalex wrote:And IMO, she was flat-out lying. She was going to meet with Jillian. She didn't want Ansom there because he represented the only rival for Jillian's affections and she didn't want the complication of all three of them interacting.


Totally agree.

Speaking of lying, my fond hope is that Ansom is totally playing Jillian right now, and that she will think that she has gotten him to turn without any need for turnamancy...

...and then in an unguarded moment, he sticks a shiv into her. Oh, the humanity!
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby Glenn » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:04 pm

I think Wanda is concerned about the possibility that decrypted can turn. When Ossomer was talking to Slately and Tremannis, Jack noticed Wanda staring at them and thought that something was bothering her, though he didn't know what it was. I think Wanda was concerned about how much loyalty Ossomer still has for his father and brother, and was worried he might be tempted to change sides.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby atalex » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:05 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:
atalex wrote:And IMO, she was flat-out lying. She was going to meet with Jillian. She didn't want Ansom there because he represented the only rival for Jillian's affections and she didn't want the complication of all three of them interacting.


Totally agree.

Speaking of lying, my fond hope is that Ansom is totally playing Jillian right now, and that she will think that she has gotten him to turn without any need for turnamancy...

...and then in an unguarded moment, he sticks a shiv into her. Oh, the humanity!


While I have no love for Jillian, I think that would be ... almost anticlimactic. Assuming Jillian doesn't eventually grow out of this loathsome "Libby with a Sword" personality, I would hope she dies much more impressively than that. Also, I am almost touched by Ansom in this update. It's the first time I've ever liked him. And I would hate for the apparent character depth he reveals in this update to be nothing more than deception.

That said, an interesting point occurs to me: Would Ansom assassinate Jillian if given the chance? He claims not to love her anymore, but he knows that Wanda does (I think, anyway). So does that make it more or less likely that he would incur Wanda's wrath by killing on of her other lovers.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby Lamech » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:09 pm

Yeah, Jillian is really good at making the royals complete hypocriates. The decrypted aren't people because they work for someone else, and its and evil abomination! And here comes Jillian...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby drachefly » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:13 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:...and then in an unguarded moment, he sticks a shiv into her. Oh, the humanity!

And totally against character. Not happening.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:22 pm

drachefly wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:...and then in an unguarded moment, he sticks a shiv into her. Oh, the humanity!

And totally against character. Not happening.


Depends on how crazy the decrypted are.

And it's just a fond hope, not an expected outcome. ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby HandofShadows » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:27 pm

I had wondered where Jillian had gotten off to. In some respects now even Stanley is acting more mature than her now (ZING!). Wonder how long before her world comes totaly crashing down.
This page does make me think back to an old idea of mine. Wanda certainly does not seem to be controling the Decrypted as she did the uncroaked. And she does not seem to have played with thier minds to make them loyal to her. So that either leaves the Archpliers doing it, or the Dycrypted are following the Titans will (by following Wanda) because they know something. Even if they don't realize what it is.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:30 pm

By the way, from this update, Slately could just raze a few of his own cities and generate the cash to make Tramennis heir.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:33 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:By the way, from this update, Slately could just raze a few of his own cities and generate the cash to make Tramennis heir.


Huh. Good point. Might also leave "scorched Earth" between the remaining Jetstone and GK. Meaning, less cities for GK to establish footholds in, longer routes for invaders to take, less troops to convert to the cause, that sort of thing.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby atalex » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:46 pm

HandofShadows wrote:I had wondered where Jillian had gotten off to. In some respects now even Stanley is acting more mature than her now (ZING!). Wonder how long before her world comes totaly crashing down.
This page does make me think back to an old idea of mine. Wanda certainly does not seem to be controling the Decrypted as she did the uncroaked. And she does not seem to have played with thier minds to make them loyal to her. So that either leaves the Archpliers doing it, or the Dycrypted are following the Titans will (by following Wanda) because they know something. Even if they don't realize what it is.


I've been thinking the same thing. I've also been thinking about Sylvia's claim that when she merely held the pliers, she could sense divine energy. Perhaps, instead of actively making the Decrypted loyal to the wielder of the pliers, they simply provide the Decrypted with an intense religious experience which some, probably most but not all, Decrypted associate with Wanda, since she caused it. Without really understanding the meaning of their feelings, the Decrypted view Wanda, not necessarily as an object of desire, but as an object of adoration in the religious sense. That might explain the varying attitudes towards her. Ansom had a romantic personality and so interprets his feelings towards Wanda as love. Sylvia is obsessed with destruction and admires Wanda as a force capable of burning down Erfworld. Ossomer is dull, pragmatic and quietly religious, and he says he doesn't serve Wanda but that they both serve the Titans.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby museunchained » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:56 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:By the way, from this update, Slately could just raze a few of his own cities and generate the cash to make Tramennis heir.



I'd say it is possible, but there may be reasons that that has not come to mind for him, in that I am thinking of the side of him he portrayed when he decided that Tramennis is closer to the Royal imperative than he is, is better for the Kingdom than he is. Slately might not respect the commoners, by any means, but as a whole, Jetstone is his Kingdom and for him to be making decisions like he did in trying to promote Tramennis, I would have to question as to whether he would disband the people within the cities, popped to fight or no, given that moving them all out in such a way as Haggar or the likes won't do the job for him, might take more turns than, at any one time, he has between threats upon jetstone.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby Ytaker » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:00 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
Ytaker wrote:I'd guess this indicates you can modify your own loyalty stat. Ansom's is heavily weighted in favour of Wanda, who cares about him more than Jill who kills decrypted. If she does try to turn him he may well prove more resistant to turning that she had anticipated. Even more so than a conventional decrypted.



I think it's the other way around. Ansom can't modify his loyalty stat, so he rationalizes it as "will of the Titans."


He said ""So if you think you can convince me to choose otherwise, then try! By all means, try to turn me."

His voice became grave. "But what I have seen so far from you is not a very fine start.""

He's indicating that he's seen things from her that indicate she is not a good person to serve, namely her lack of kindness towards decrypted. His loyalty to her is harder to gain because of her cruelty.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby JohnATallon » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:58 pm

mmooneybsa wrote:Jillian should have captured at least 1 low level Decrypted, for a turning test. If turning of Decrypted is possible it should be much more difficult for level 10 high loyalty Ansom to be turned than a level 1 piker. Valla should have a more difficult time turing Ansom even if he was not Decrypted. They should really collect many Decrypted & be trying to see if the 'mass turn' spell works on low level Decrypted, to a similar or lesser or no extent in comparison to regular units. Then (possibly failing that) attempt some individual turns on those most likely to have low loyalty.

If they can be turned there should then be a preference to collect Decrypted, because Wanda would not be able to Decrypt them again. The dead would become dead, instead of becomming the enemy.


It's a good idea, but it's not in character for Jillian. She's very straightforward and bullheaded. She's shown that she is willing to commit everything she has to accomplish a goal for personal reasons, to the point that she'll discard useful allies and place herself in danger in the process. She wouldn't have thought to try with other decrypted first because the only decrypted she is interested in is Ansom.

She's shown herself to be bad enough at planning and subtly that I expect, succeed or fail at turning Ansom, she will let the information about it get out for free instead of protecting it or making Charlie pay for it.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby coyo » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:28 pm

GaryThunder wrote:Jillian's being a hypocrite and Ansom called her out on it. I have to respect him for that. And Jillian is an idiot if she thinks she can win Ansom's heart, even through Turnamancy, after slaughtering his fellow Popped Again brothers and sisters like that. If she were at all smart, she would have made sure Ansom couldn't see or didn't know about what she did with the Decrypted units.


You make a very good point. Rob was careful to point out what Ansom could see.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 043

Postby JimSox5 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:41 pm

So, we haven't seen or heard from Stanley since he was eating the huge sandwich (apparently even bigger than anybody realized) back in July. What is he going to think when he comes back to find a city razed and his chief warlord gone to the front lines after pilfering the armory?
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