Book 2 – Text Updates 044

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Lamech » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:14 pm

Why wouldn't either work? You can mount multiple people on each dwagon; what would prevent an Archon sitting tandem with the hobgobwins or the warlords, if they could mount?

Therefore, the evidence in the most recent series of comics suggests that archons can't mount dwagons. This is somewhat contradicted by the understanding that Vinny was to be picked up by Jillian. I'm not 100% convinced either way, but I'm inclined to accept more recent evidence than early-comic evidence.
I don't see why trying to sit on a dead dwagon corpse would be any different than trying to sit on any other object. It would be like trying to fall by sitting on their shoes. You could have the exact same problem it you attempt sitting on an overloaded dwagon. And archons just might not qualify for a fall. It possible a flying unit can't fall. Like how the dwagons couldn't simply stop flapping their wings. Even if an archon did sit on an overloaded dwagon it might simply bounce off and into the air when the dwagon hit the ground.
Did you not read what you quoted? "short of having heaps of dwagons and archons stationed around the Minty Mountains, ready to expand scouting and relays further away from the capitol"
Yeah, but the relay is far from heaps. Its not a remotely limiting factor. Risking a couple dwagons is tiny compared to the gain. In fact Stanley's one dwagon was able to get two or three. And THOSE dwagons were able to fly back. Even if you leave dwagons stationed through out the mountains its the equivalent of risking one dwagon for one turn to get a dwagon or two. And these dwagons are probably at less risk than the relay ones. The kill rate for those can't be any higher than a few percent. A simple risk benefit analysis tells you this is an utterly amazing deal.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby No one in particular » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:10 pm

Angband wrote:This has been hashed out before -- while it's theoretically possible that it was the same trip, all signs point to Stanley's sacking of FAQ was one of the reasons that King Saline IV promoted him to heir designate, so it couldn't have happened at the same time.


Going through the thread, I don't really see a lot of strong evidence... however, going back and looking at Stanley's telling of Faq-sacking in Text 27, he mentions that he was Chief Warlord, but nothing about being heir designate at that point, and that he took a couple of stacks with him, but doesn't mention any casters. Those seem like pretty big details to skip over if they were there...

Of course, the thing that really convinces me now that I go back and look at it is the flashback when Sizemore is telling Parson about the coup. The special mission seems to be the sacking of a smurf village, which is a completely different architecture than Faq. Admittedly, that might be what Kibo or Otoh looked like, but that seems unlikely.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby No one in particular » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:15 pm

pm123 wrote:I suspect much of that sentiment is due to Stanley still being under the influence of Maggie's suggestion. He even seems to doubt his thoughts while thinking them, as if Maggie's overriden his usual mentality for awhile.


The thing to remember is that a suggestion spell is just that, a suggestion. It's been stated that it's not mind control, that the caster tells the subject to do something, and they provide their own justifications for doing it. Furthermore, it has to build off aspects that are already present. It does not "turn a dullard into a genius, or a mouse into a maniac." If Stanley didn't have SOME respect for Parson, nothing Maggie could do would give him any.

All Maggie told Stanley to do was 1) promote Parson and 2) leave for a while. Stanley could have justified his staying away with anything, from wanting to finish his sandwich first, to not wanting to spend the shmuckers to promote another Chief Warlord AGAIN. Instead, he went with trust.

Even if Maggie is amplifying it, there's still something there.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby drachefly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:05 pm

Lamech wrote:Yeah, but the relay is far from heaps. Its not a remotely limiting factor. Risking a couple dwagons is tiny compared to the gain. In fact Stanley's one dwagon was able to get two or three. And THOSE dwagons were able to fly back. Even if you leave dwagons stationed through out the mountains its the equivalent of risking one dwagon for one turn to get a dwagon or two. And these dwagons are probably at less risk than the relay ones. The kill rate for those can't be any higher than a few percent. A simple risk benefit analysis tells you this is an utterly amazing deal.


And moreover, unlike the relay, you can have those heaps in one or a few central place(s). Whoever tries to attack them is going to get a faceful of dwagon. The limiting factor here is, again, having scout units. They don't even need to be warlords, just have the scouting special and either be able to escape a dwagon or be so cheap you don't care (like doombats).
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby joosy » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:38 pm

drachefly wrote:
Lamech wrote:Yeah, but the relay is far from heaps. Its not a remotely limiting factor. Risking a couple dwagons is tiny compared to the gain. In fact Stanley's one dwagon was able to get two or three. And THOSE dwagons were able to fly back. Even if you leave dwagons stationed through out the mountains its the equivalent of risking one dwagon for one turn to get a dwagon or two. And these dwagons are probably at less risk than the relay ones. The kill rate for those can't be any higher than a few percent. A simple risk benefit analysis tells you this is an utterly amazing deal.


And moreover, unlike the relay, you can have those heaps in one or a few central place(s). Whoever tries to attack them is going to get a faceful of dwagon. The limiting factor here is, again, having scout units. They don't even need to be warlords, just have the scouting special and either be able to escape a dwagon or be so cheap you don't care (like doombats).



and have leadership so it can choose to break off an attack and be able to see veiled units.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Smoker » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:25 pm

Thinking about scouting units...

Imagine if Wanda was able to decrypt a bat-swarm. Considering the boost they got from Caesar to "Almost heavies", and having Wanda (who normally sits in the same stack as the CWL) with her decryption and artifact bonus... a swarm of tiny, mobile "more than heavies"... omg.

Plus I reckon they'd have sweet artwork :)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Guppy » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:48 pm

Oberon wrote:The 'hammer also may convert O'rlys into walnuts. This would seem to be a purely-for-humor effect, as any hit on a weak unit such as an O'rly is probably fatal in any event.


I took it to mean a clue that the Hammer has a special bonus-vs-birds effect (or even more broadly bonus-vs-flier), just as the pliers have a bonus-vs-uncroaked. Would be pretty cool if Stanley were to one-shot a Megalogwiff by turning it into a coconut or something.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Oberon » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:21 pm

Guppy wrote:
Oberon wrote:The 'hammer also may convert O'rlys into walnuts. This would seem to be a purely-for-humor effect, as any hit on a weak unit such as an O'rly is probably fatal in any event.

I took it to mean a clue that the Hammer has a special bonus-vs-birds effect (or even more broadly bonus-vs-flier), just as the pliers have a bonus-vs-uncroaked. Would be pretty cool if Stanley were to one-shot a Megalogwiff by turning it into a coconut or something.
Now that would be amusing. Even more amusing: Turning a TV unit (flying warlords, remember) into, I don't know, bats of the non-doom variety?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby drachefly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:42 pm

joosy wrote:
drachefly wrote:The limiting factor here is, again, having scout units. They don't even need to be warlords, just have the scouting special and either be able to escape a dwagon or be so cheap you don't care (like doombats).

and have leadership so it can choose to break off an attack and be able to see veiled units.


Scouts can break off attacks; they don't need leaders to do that. I don't know why sighting veiled is so important for dwagon hunting; it is important for general security, sure.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby the_tick_rules » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:45 pm

Sizemore seems so depressed.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby ftl » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:53 pm

drachefly wrote:
Scouts can break off attacks; they don't need leaders to do that. I don't know why sighting veiled is so important for dwagon hunting; it is important for general security, sure.


It's important for general security because of how critical the mission is. You're sending out the ruler of the side to tame the dwagons; it only takes one good ambush to end the side. Parson and Stanley need to be damn well sure there's absolutely no chance of an ambush; and that means being able to see veiled units. Because without that, all it takes is one hired foolamancer to make a flock of mounted gwiffons look like a feral dwagon and some clouds. Or one stack of 20 archons sitting veiled in the middle of the mountains near passes that Stanley ends up using on occasion.

Seeing veiled isn't necessarily as critical for general scouting, because you can't plan for *every* eventuality - but in the case where the overlord is being put on the line *every turn*, you probably have to.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Smoker » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:54 pm

drachefly wrote:I don't know why sighting veiled is so important for dwagon hunting; it is important for general security, sure.


Because if anyone (like say, Charlie) discovered that Stanley was leaving the capital every turn to hunt dwagons, it would be very much in his interest to leave pockets of Archon's in the area under veil to croak him. As a rule, we dont see Rulers leaving the Capital - exceptions being Jillian (as always) and Don's daddy, who ensured he had an heir first.

Stanley doesn't have an heir, so he is a very juicy target. He shouldn't go anywhere unless it is extremely safe. Duty would compel most of his units to enforce that too.

EDIT: Or what ftl said.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby raphfrk » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:23 am

drachefly wrote:I don't know why sighting veiled is so important for dwagon hunting; it is important for general security, sure.


It is only required when Stanley actually moves. They could find the dwagons without needing a veil check. However, the path of hexes that Stanley travels through must be checked for ambush.

I wonder if a foolamancer - thinkamancer - foolamaner linkup could shield an ambush from the archons (esp if Charlie was the one providing the link).
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby drachefly » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:26 am

I thought we'd already established that the limiting factor was finding the dwagons, not getting to them to bring them home. You would need an escort, sure; but cheap scouts can do the basic gruntwork of finding the dwagons.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Infidel » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:31 am

Swodaems wrote:One thing we learned this update, Stanley doesn't think long term. Not if he thinks an upkeep increase of 140 a turn in a game that has already lasted 1000s of turns is more desirable than spending 18 grand.
Of course, this might be getting the city on the cheap. An estimate of what it would cost TV to take the capital city of Carpool ran 250k.


I'm sure that the upkeep cost of all those heavy hobgoblins collectively is more than 140. All they need to be is +10 upkeep each and upgraded units are usually even more costly than that.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Trost » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:22 am

Jafar, fairy Godmother, Aeris Gainsborough.

I love all these background characters.

I wonder what kingdom has Dr. Strange and the scarlet witch from the last comic...
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