Book 2 – Text Updates 044

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Infidel » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:03 pm

DevilDan wrote:
fjolnir wrote:Did he ever offer any advice to Parson on camera? It seems Stanley had more faith in Parson than we thought...


Obviously he's under a suggestion, but I still love, love, love this peek into Stanley's mind at this point. He does learn...


Lots of people are claiming that it is obvious that he is still under suggestion, but I'm not seeing it.

"That really ticked him off. It wasn't like he had been able to go out and tame any more in the last dozen turns. All those Archons that were scouting the area were part of Ansom's big plan to take Jetstone, so Stanley had been stuck in the city. He got out of his chair and was going to go yell at Hamster about that, but then they all got un-fooded all of a sudden"...

He was going to get up, but it was over so fast. Even if he were under a suggestion, then he would not have been determined to get up. Besides, the suggestion was just "leave the room so he can think" so there is nothing in the suggestion keeping him away from where parson is now, or from sticking his nose in and offering suggestions, or asking Parson why he is doing anything. Stanley left the room to let Parson think, Stanley continues to sit alone thinking, because he feels the need for some introspection, not because he is still under the effects of the suggestion.

technojunkie wrote:
fjolnir wrote:Did he ever offer any advice to Parson on camera? It seems Stanley had more faith in Parson than we thought...


One could make the argument that Stanley believed he was mentoring parson when reading him the riot act for not visiting the various areas of the city to ensure maximum production. that's about the closest stretch I can see.


Stanley offered to mentor Parson when he appointed Ansom to CW.

Sygerrik wrote:One of the reasons that the slow pace of updates is frustrating is that often, when we DO get an update, often it's an utterly irrelevant one (like this) that breaks the flow of the story. The last few comics have been building to a climax, and this is kind of an abrupt derail. That's not to say that today's update was not interesting, but it's not good storytelling.


The text updates are filler, not applicable to the plot except tangentially. They are like author background notes that never make it into the story. And are meant to be read as such. They are not there to critique as good or bad storytelling. The story is the comic.
Last edited by Infidel on Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Oberon » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:06 pm

fjolnir wrote:Did he ever offer any advice to Parson on camera? It seems Stanley had more faith in Parson than we thought...
fjolnir, what "But Hamster would just stare at him whenever he would share a pearl of his worldly wisdom. Made it not worth it." means is that Parson was trying hard not to tell Stanley how stupid he was, or laugh, or do something else which might piss off Stanley and further erode their already rocky relationship.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:In fact, now that it's cool to like Stanley, I think I'll discover that he sold out and is a total poseur. Boo Stanley. Boo.
That Stanley, he is a square!
Swodaems wrote:It makes a bit of ironic sense, a hammer that can be used against every nail in the world. It would also put the hammer back in the power bracket of the dish, and pliers.
The 'hammer is already plenty powerful. Not that I'd be sad to see Stanley figure out some more cool capabilities, you understand.
MonteCristo wrote:Yes i recall during the summer updates when he chose to make Ansom the new chief warlord, he mentioned that he wanted to mentor Parson
Yeah. It went kinda like this: "Heeeyyyy, sport! Pretty nice job not losing me my capitol while I flew off, abandoning you all to your fate. Not that I couldn't have done better, you understand. You're still new, but I'll take you under my wing and show you the ropes. After I replace you with the new pretty boy, of course. But we'll have lot's of time to bond over a lot of sessions of me giving you orders and you carrying them out."
Beeskee wrote:*Something similar going on like this for me RL. I'm trying to get RDP working, my boss has helpfully said 4-5 times to make sure the ports are forwarded. Um, yes, they are, thank you.
"Ah," the manager said with a knowing smile (a 49K with a hint of 28Q), "But have you enabled port forwarding?" :twisted:
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Joe Falco » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:20 pm

I wonder if Stanley will try the 'hammer on decrypted units to see if he can "tame" them. Since he can't go anywhere outside the city, he'll have to do all his experimenting with whatever is at hand.

...

Stanley: Tame the Sandwich.

One other thing, I haven't noticed anyone else mention this hilarious line he used:

"And Wanda would be all, 'I'm spooky and powerful and hot and OBEY ME!'"

That right there has made my day.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby GaryThunder » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:20 pm

The 'Hammer is powerful, but it is just not on the level of the 'Pliers or the 'Dish. Not even being able to blow down a CWL and wipe his whole stack in one swing. That's good, but that's not Decryption good, and that's not Kingworld good. Or even hack-Thinkagrams good. If Stanley does unlock its full power, geez, that could really be something.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Musrum » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:24 pm

That really ticked him off. It wasn't like he had been able to go out and tame any more in the last dozen turns. All those Archons that were scouting the area were part of Ansom's big plan to take Jetstone, so Stanley had been stuck in the city


Couldn't his mounted Dragons perform a similar scouting role? It might be less efficient, but better than nothing.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby drachefly » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:47 pm

They'd have to be led in order to be able to disengage. Is there anyone capable of that around? Seems like the only candidates are, like, Maggie and Sizemore.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby joosy » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:50 pm

Musrum wrote:
That really ticked him off. It wasn't like he had been able to go out and tame any more in the last dozen turns. All those Archons that were scouting the area were part of Ansom's big plan to take Jetstone, so Stanley had been stuck in the city


Couldn't his mounted Dragons perform a similar scouting role? It might be less efficient, but better than nothing.


Yes but they have no leadership so they will auto-attack the other dwagons. Also, they cannot see veiled units like Archons can.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby lordbadguy » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:35 pm

There's something I hadn't considered until one of the posts in this thread: Stanley and Parson are VERY similar in that they are the only ones we've seen (that I can think of) that have had to learn their jobs, instead of popping with the knowledge. Once Stanley realizes that, I think that the two of them will be much more comfortable talking to each-other about their roles and how to improve themselves. And if they do so, I'll bet that Parson is going to be the one that helps Stanley discover the true power of the Hammer...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby paint » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:41 pm

awww that just kinda endeared me to the little tool..

even if he is submitting to mind control....
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Sieggy » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:47 pm

Mmmm . . . I have to wonder if the 'Suggestion' spell that Maggie used wasn't actually the dust she tossed in his face. That seems to be the same stuff that Wanda used on the Hobgobwin guard outside the room where she was interrogating/playing with Jillian back in Book 1. Wanda's not a Thinkamancer, so HER suggestion must have been the dust. Also, I would think that casting a Suggestion spell on your Ruler would eat up a lot of juice, which as I recall Maggie said she was trying to conserve.

If that's the case and Stanley breaks the Suggestion, there shouldn't be any backlash because it was created by an item, not her spell.

I really like that Stanley is showing some depth. Though I doubt he'll ever get deep enough to concede that maybe HE should take some mentoring sessions under Parson. One thing I'm wondering is whether or not he'll 'know' that Parson has entered the MK, and then JS. I assume he'll be aware that Parson has left the Garrison (after all, he must have done that for a reason), but I think he'll cwap that sandwich if he's suddenly aware that his Perfect Warlord is engaging in field actions so far away, not to mention having his head explode when he realizes that if Parson didn't get croaked going through the portal, he has to be some kind of caster . . . (it was never made clear whether or not anyone told Stanley about the retreat to the MK)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Oberon » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:28 pm

GaryThunder wrote:The 'Hammer is powerful, but it is just not on the level of the 'Pliers or the 'Dish. Not even being able to blow down a CWL and wipe his whole stack in one swing. That's good, but that's not Decryption good, and that's not Kingworld good. Or even hack-Thinkagrams good. If Stanley does unlock its full power, geez, that could really be something.
All the 'tools are potent. The 'dish, to me, seems to be the most potent. The 'hammer and the 'pliers appear, again to me, to be about equal.

Here's the breakdown as I see things:

All three have a unit advantage, with some degree of differentiation which makes them more or less potent in certain situations.

- The 'hammer grants auto-taming of dwagons. This is a highly potent unit type. But you've gotta find them. Popping them seems to be at standard speed, so while popping is an option it isn't an advantage. Combining this with other scouting units (which could be dwagon mounted warlords) allows for a much faster taming capability. The 'hammer also grants spectacular melee combat capabilities. Both "Van de Graaff" and "Stop! Hammertime" are potent melee attacks. This would only apply to or for a warlord or caster who is actively seeking melee, as Stanly's musings about his reduced capacity to hunt for dwagons as a side ruler demonstrated. The 'hammer also may convert O'rlys into walnuts. This would seem to be a purely-for-humor effect, as any hit on a weak unit such as an O'rly is probably fatal in any event.

- The 'dish grants rapid popping of archons. This is a potent unit type. But you've gotta accumulate them via popping. No way to collect a spare dozen on your way to attack FAQ, for example. No way to scout for more. But aside from arguments about sheer combat power, archons have been shown to be much more generally useful. They can have leadership, which is huge. They can mix and match their random magic specials to really befuddle an opposing force. They appear to be far more intelligent than dwagons. The 'dish also grants unlimited thinkagrams, and with this some potential for thinkagram-based mind tricks. This is a potent capability, both as a revenue provider and as an intelligence gathering mechanism.

- The 'pliers grants decryption. For unit potency, this can be a lowly stabber, or a dwagon or an archon, all decrypt all the same. The largest advantage appears to be that they are upkeep free. There is no unit popping or taming option... For the 'pliers to continue to provide decryption targets the attuned person must be present at winning combats. Aside from decryption, the 'pliers allow an auto-dusting of uncroaked. Uncroaked seem to be a marginal unit type, not used by many sides, and possibly by no royal sides (due to the labels Ansom used against uncroaked and croakamancers). This capability seems to be notably less useful than either of the other two 'tools secondary capabilities.

The single most important factor in the GK attunement of the 'pliers is that it came along with the corpses of the entire RCC. This provided a huge army to GK which they would not have had in many or most other attunement scenarios. This to me is the highly situational value the 'pliers provide. Were (post RCC) TV or Jetstone to have an attuned caster or warlord, the 'pliers would not be nearly as potent! The same may apply to any small side which managed to attune. You must win to continue to gain the advantage of the 'pliers. Any loss and you lose all momentum, especially if it is not your turn and the attuned wielder cannot retreat. Sure, once that initial boost was provided, GK has been a juggernaut. This is also a factor of the diminution of the various sides after their losses at TBfGK. GK got strong at the exact same time that all of the RCC sides got weak. It is no wonder that the 'pliers gave GK a huge capability for rapid and nearly unopposed expansion! But this is a unique situation, and not one which should be considered to be an overbalancing factor in favor of the 'pliers as opposed to either of the other 'tools.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Oberon » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:33 pm

Sieggy wrote:Mmmm . . . I have to wonder if the 'Suggestion' spell that Maggie used wasn't actually the dust she tossed in his face.
Um, why wouldn't it be? This is a visual media, and if we're shown dust being thrown into someone's face along with a suggestion, and they immediately follow that suggestion, and this has been demonstrated before in the strip, then we have to accept it at face value. To do otherwise would be madness.
Sieggy wrote:If that's the case and Stanley breaks the Suggestion, there shouldn't be any backlash because it was created by an item, not her spell.
As a counterpoint to your logical argument, Wanda's suggestion on Jillian was cast from a scroll (from all indications), and Wanda still suffered the backlash. Thus item cast suggestions do not seem to be immune to the backlash. One has to wonder why Wanda used the scroll when she had the dust, given the comparative efficacy of the two options... But that is another subject altogether.
Last edited by Oberon on Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Decorus » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:36 pm

GaryThunder wrote:The 'Hammer is powerful, but it is just not on the level of the 'Pliers or the 'Dish. Not even being able to blow down a CWL and wipe his whole stack in one swing. That's good, but that's not Decryption good, and that's not Kingworld good. Or even hack-Thinkagrams good. If Stanley does unlock its full power, geez, that could really be something.


The Hammer is exactly as powerful as the Pliers or the Dish. The problem is Stanly is utterly useless as an owner compared to Wanda or Charlie. If Parson had it he would nevermind I don't even want to contemplate what would happen if Parson had and could use the Hammer....
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Lamech » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:46 am

All the 'tools are potent. The 'dish, to me, seems to be the most potent. The 'hammer and the 'pliers appear, again to me, to be about equal.
I disagree (assuming no other ablities then what we have seen), the whole telecomm thing with the dish is nice, but... Parson's could do something similar by selling mathamancy. That table could have probably done something similar with lookamancy. Archons are very nice, but... the numbers it gives is tiny compared to what the hammer or pliers can cwap out. (More on that later...) And I bet if Wanda didn't immediatly start the DOOM! army she could have done something similar with the pliers, sell units to sides. You would need to be careful though.
The other thinkamancy things seem to be powerful, but not super-amazing. A really good thinkamancer, or perhaps a team.
The 'hammer grants auto-taming of dwagons. This is a highly potent unit type. But you've gotta find them. Popping them seems to be at standard speed, so while popping is an option it isn't an advantage. Combining this with other scouting units (which could be dwagon mounted warlords) allows for a much faster taming capability. The 'hammer also grants spectacular melee combat capabilities.
Mount an archon and cycle it through a dwagon relay. Every dwagon lets her check 50 hexes, so four dwagons find one. Have the guy with the hammer do the same thing, he'll probably be able to get to the dwagons a lot quicker of course. (Maybe one dwagon per dwagon here, someone better at probablity want to comment?) If your willing to risk dwagons, and have enough mountain hexes, you stand to gain ONE dwagon, for every fiveish(?) dwagons you risk. A 20% turn interest rates on dwagons? You could get a LOT of dwagons, bet you might be able to feed them with dwagons.
Also I'm not sure if "Stop! Hammer time" is melee only. And van de graff is insane. A chief warlord was down for a few seconds. If Stanley wanted a win their he could have slapped Ceaser down. More to the point, how is melee even winable at that point? The super-warlord can't even fight that, and it hits the whole stack.
The 'hammer also may convert O'rlys into walnuts. This would seem to be a purely-for-humor effect, as any hit on a weak unit such as an O'rly is probably fatal in any event.
I note we've never actually seen this. Jack thought that was some nice flavor in his illusion.
- The 'pliers grants decryption. For unit potency, this can be a lowly stabber, or a dwagon or an archon, all decrypt all the same. The largest advantage appears to be that they are upkeep free. There is no unit popping or taming option... For the 'pliers to continue to provide decryption targets the attuned person must be present at winning combats. Aside from decryption, the 'pliers allow an auto-dusting of uncroaked. Uncroaked seem to be a marginal unit type, not used by many sides, and possibly by no royal sides (due to the labels Ansom used against uncroaked and croakamancers). This capability seems to be notably less useful than either of the other two 'tools secondary capabilities.

Couple things on the pliers. You say no taming. I say yes taming, remember how the marbits are swarming the mountains around GK? Send a team of dwagons a warlord or caster needing xp and then then you got tamable marbits! Also the pliers one shot a dwagon, yes it was in the hands of Ansom, but that seems potent none-the-less.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby unleet » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:15 am

Lamech wrote:
The 'hammer also may convert O'rlys into walnuts. This would seem to be a purely-for-humor effect, as any hit on a weak unit such as an O'rly is probably fatal in any event.
I note we've never actually seen this. Jack thought that was some nice flavor in his illusion.

We have, however, seen the 'hammer convert walnuts into birds, back in book 1 when Stanley was using it as a nutcracker. I would be quite shocked if that were merely a joke ability and not foreshadowing something bigger.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:25 am

unleet wrote:
Lamech wrote:
The 'hammer also may convert O'rlys into walnuts. This would seem to be a purely-for-humor effect, as any hit on a weak unit such as an O'rly is probably fatal in any event.
I note we've never actually seen this. Jack thought that was some nice flavor in his illusion.

We have, however, seen the 'hammer convert walnuts into birds, back in book 1 when Stanley was using it as a nutcracker. I would be quite shocked if that were merely a joke ability and not foreshadowing something bigger.


I can't figure out what this means, either. But I'm also expecting it to be important, even if it just ends up as a clue to Parson about whatever. But it might turn out that the Hammer can transmorgify objects more generally. Kind of like the Thinkmancers can make objects out of solidified strings.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Oberon » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:37 am

Lamech wrote:I disagree (assuming no other ablities then what we have seen), the whole telecomm thing with the dish is nice, but... Parson's could do something similar by selling mathamancy. That table could have probably done something similar with lookamancy. Archons are very nice, but... the numbers it gives is tiny compared to what the hammer or pliers can cwap out.
Sure, but the 'dish is self propagating as a service. The 'dish enables unlimited thinkagrams, allowing you to contact all other sides to sell your unlimited thinkagram services. With mathamancy or lookamancy you have a valuable service which is difficult to advertise.
Lamech wrote:Also I'm not sure if "Stop! Hammer time" is melee only. And van de graff is insane. A chief warlord was down for a few seconds. If Stanley wanted a win their he could have slapped Ceaser down. More to the point, how is melee even winable at that point? The super-warlord can't even fight that, and it hits the whole stack.
What other application does "Stop! Hammer time" have? Van de Graaff may be insane, but it didn't kill Caesar, and the tactical situation forced Stanley to retreat. The 'hammer is potent in melee, but not unstoppable or uncounterable.
Lamech wrote:
Oberon wrote:The 'hammer also may convert O'rlys into walnuts. This would seem to be a purely-for-humor effect, as any hit on a weak unit such as an O'rly is probably fatal in any event.
I note we've never actually seen this. Jack thought that was some nice flavor in his illusion.
We have seen this. There is no indication that this was an illusion, and no indication that Jack was aware of the reveal of this new 'power' that Stanley made to Wanda.
Lamech wrote:Couple things on the pliers. You say no taming. I say yes taming, remember how the marbits are swarming the mountains around GK? Send a team of dwagons a warlord or caster needing xp and then then you got tamable marbits! Also the pliers one shot a dwagon, yes it was in the hands of Ansom, but that seems potent none-the-less.
This is not taming. It is a completely different mechanic, which has all of the advantages and disadvantages I have pointed out previously. You have to win, as a hard requirement. You cannot just send the attuned unit and assume that taming is automatic, as with dwagons. The difference might be subtle, but it is enormous.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Squishalot » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:57 am

Oberon wrote:What other application does "Stop! Hammer time" have? Van de Graaff may be insane, but it didn't kill Caesar, and the tactical situation forced Stanley to retreat. The 'hammer is potent in melee, but not unstoppable or uncounterable.


It could have killed Caesar, if that were Stanley's goal. However, Stanley chose to ignore Caesar's position, and continued with his original plan to 'break through' the defenses. His goal was to bypass, not to engage and slaughter. If he 2-3 shotted Caesar, that would've weakened the entire Transylvito army, and probably allow GK to overwhelm them, noting that Vinny otherwise assessed it as a tough but winnable (i.e. fair) fight *with* Caesar on side.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Kharavex » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:05 am

Beeskee wrote:If you think about it, Stanley seems to know more about his hammer than Wanda seems to know about her pliers. Have we seen Wanda do anything besides decrypt units with them?



I have suspected Wanda is not reveiling the entire array of powers the pliers possess. She'd make a good poker player.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 044

Postby Aquillion » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:37 am

JohnATallon wrote:I always wondered why Parson didn't involve the Tool in some of his practice sessions with Jack. Planning pretend wars seems right up the Tool's alley.
Political considerations. There are things Parson can say (and contingencies he can plan) with Jack which he can't bring up with the Tool. For instance, how do you think Stanley would have reacted to discussion of a plan in which Dwagons were harvested? In this situation, Stanley might be willing to accept that it's necessary if it's part of the big plan, but he probably would've flipped if it were discussed as a contingency.

Also, it becomes harder to get a good back and forth with someone like Stanley. What if Stanley says "oh, hey, let's plan for XYZ" when XYZ is something totally stupid? You can't say no to him, so you're stuck wasting time planning for it. Or if he says "nah, that'll never happen" -- suddenly, if you spend time planning for that, you're disobeying his orders and undermining his leadership.

There are times when having a manager around isn't actually a good thing, especially one with Stanley's personality.

Kharavex wrote:I have suspected Wanda is not reveiling the entire array of powers the pliers possess. She'd make a good poker player.
She's also had it the least time out of all known Arkentools, and spent most of that time waging wars for Stanley. She hasn't really been able to explore its powers at all.
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