Book 2 – Page 57

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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby peteratjet » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:37 pm

Oberon wrote:
No one in particular wrote:Okay, to clarify: I'm saying that the portals, which are a thing and not an action, are more than just a rules exploitation like the flying-heavies and mount-croakers. They are far more powerful, versatile, reliable, and safe than crash landings. Toss in the possibility that the portals have been around forever makes it just as plausible, if not more so, that they are the fourth arkentool.

Seriously, this level of mobility in the hands of any faction other than the non-aggressive Magic Kingdom would be a game breaker.
You may be forgetting the limitations of the portals. Only casters and Parson can pass through them.


Aren't Archons classed as Casters? Charlie has a ~lot~ of Archons.

Just sayin'
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Berserkas » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:40 pm

Not real casters though. Just units with casting abilities.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:57 pm

I'm guessing sizemore made sure the hole leading to the tunnel could only be triggered by a heavy unit? Or anyone walking by portal could fall through the hole.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby fnorvous » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:54 pm

I'm pretty excited about there being a tunnel going from MK to SR.
I think Parson is thinking long term too, along the lines of getting non-casters from SR to MK (conquest?)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby gameboy1234 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:05 pm

Maeltne wrote:Has this been brought up before?

From: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/ ... rmission_2

Specifically
The old city had lacked a front gate, a configuration which gave extra strength to the outer walls and avoided a specific weak point. The trade-off was that they'd had to deploy all of their non-fliers out through the tunnels. That was why their only heavy units were Spidews and Dwagons.


Will Parson even be able to enter the tunnel?


Which tunnel? There are no tunnels in Spacerock, and GK now occupies the portal room. The only tunnel now is the one in the Magic Kingdom, which is clearly not the one referenced above. So, yeah, no problem getting into the tunnel, assuming some caster doesn't try to blast his head off.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby joosy » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:37 pm

I remember speculating on the number of portals in portal park when we first learned that a city can have more than one capital site.

We know that there are specific areas in Erfworld where you can build a city. There are certain city sites that are designated capital sites.

The questions I still have are: Is there a portal for each capital site in Erfworld in Portal Park? Or Is there a portal for each side? Can
sides with multiple capital city sites have more than one portal?

We know that Jetstone has two capitol sites. We know that they had to designate one of them as the main city. We don't know if their portal switched from one city to another OR if they just took over Spacerock's portal when they defeated that side, thus giving them two portals. We know that Parson has ordered Sizemore to build a tunnel to the portal "that goes to Spacerock" so both scenarios are still plausible.

I like to think that the portals in Portal Park are 'static' and that there is one for each capital site. However, each side can only have one portal to the Magic Kingdom. Any capital sites that are not a side's capital or have not been rebuilt, go dark.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby wonmean » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:54 pm

Hey guys,

Here's a good overview sketch of the portal park.
I count 14 portals, along with 8 obelisk pairs.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F038a.jpg
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby joosy » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:20 pm

wonmean wrote:Hey guys,

Here's a good overview sketch of the portal park.
I count 14 portals, along with 8 obelisk pairs.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F038a.jpg


Good catch. I do think that those are just artistic license and not meant as a true representation of all of the portals the entire park. I believe the eight obelisks are entrances to each section of the Magic Kingdom for the eight magic branches (Hocus Pocus, Spookism, Stuffamancy, Eyemancy, Hippiemancy, Stagemancy, Clevermancy) Each is color coded for our convenience even! (see http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F011.jpg panel 1
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby falldowngoboom » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:45 pm

peteratjet wrote:Aren't Archons classed as Casters? Charlie has a ~lot~ of Archons.

Just sayin'


According to this http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png Archons are not casters. They are Knight class units with a random special.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Ytaker » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:23 pm

There have been a lot of ominous hints in story (say from the thinkamancer update) that Charlie may make a play for the magic kingdom. He has to have some sort of reason for building up a huge fleet. We don't know whether having the caster special would allow an archon to enter the magic kindom. It may never have been tested. Charlie does like to experiment, though.

I wonder if a weirdomancer could make a unit a caster type, enough to let them enter the magic kingdom?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby DoctorJest » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:30 pm

Ytaker wrote: We don't know whether having the caster special would allow an archon to enter the magic kindom.


It's not a caster special. It's a special offering limited capability to perform some magic abilities. In D&D terms, they'd be called "Spell-like abilities". They're not actual casting, more an innate magical power. Archons are not casters, they're Knight-class units.

It may never have been tested. Charlie does like to experiment, though.


Oh yeah I'm sure the really smart people in TMK never once considered it either if it were remotely possible.

Why does everyone assume everyone in Erfworld is a complete moron?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Catalyst » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:34 pm

I really do not think the magic kingdom has been isolated to mages only because of the tradition that only casters can go there. I also reject the idea that Parson can get into the magic kingdom only because the game world does not know where to place him. It really is possible that he is a caster of some kind and he just has not learned to cast any spells yet. I think Janis claimed him as a hippymancer to avoid conflict, and perhaps because she really really wants parson to be a hippymancer. I also do not think casters in the magic kingdom need to claim anyone as "theirs" in order for that person to enter the magic kingdom. You are either allowed in by the portal or not. I think the reason for the hostility when he first appeared in the magic kingdom was because he was a warlord, everyone was surprised he could even come in, and probably because he was armed.
If Parson wanted too, i think he could argue not being allowed in (for no reason we know of) and say he should be allowed entrance to the magic kingdom because the portal let him in, and therefore he is some kind of caster. This of course is speculation, but i do not think it is too far fetched. I have gotten the impression somewhere that the magic kingdom is more of a democracy than a monarchy. At the least, it is less of a "kingdom" and more of an open forum for magical trade and philosophy, so claiming rights to enter would not be too incredible.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Sieggy » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:42 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:I'm guessing sizemore made sure the hole leading to the tunnel could only be triggered by a heavy unit? Or anyone walking by portal could fall through the hole.

'Mind the gap' could be part of the spell to perhaps keep people away from the entrance, or he set something (turf golem?) to keep an eye on it?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby joosy » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:47 pm

Sieggy wrote:
the_tick_rules wrote:I'm guessing sizemore made sure the hole leading to the tunnel could only be triggered by a heavy unit? Or anyone walking by portal could fall through the hole.

'Mind the gap' could be part of the spell to perhaps keep people away from the entrance, or he set something (turf golem?) to keep an eye on it?


I think it is protected by some armor of some kind... maybe the plot kind? :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Jinren » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:38 pm

joosy wrote:The questions I still have are: Is there a portal for each capital site in Erfworld in Portal Park? Or Is there a portal for each side? Can
sides with multiple capital city sites have more than one portal?


Sizemore says "you don't send a caster from the Magic Kingdom to enter a city you don't control." Flimsy, but it very slightly implies that there might be occasions when leaving by a different portal than the one you came in would be acceptable.

I think the issue of being able to enter the Magic Kingdom off-turn and without move is important, too, but I'm not sure what it implies: does it suggest that multiple portals can exist, because crossing the area boundary into the MK isn't cheating; or does it suggest that they can't, because it would become a gamebreaker if the caster could cross the second boundary to leave again in a new location?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Dr Pepper » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:40 pm

fnorvous wrote:I'm pretty excited about there being a tunnel going from MK to SR.


Yeah, it's convenient. But i really hate having to change which side of the road to walk on.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Dr Pepper » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:48 pm

Catalyst wrote: I have gotten the impression somewhere that the magic kingdom is more of a democracy than a monarchy.


It's an anarcho-syndicalist commune!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Jorgath » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:34 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:
Catalyst wrote: I have gotten the impression somewhere that the magic kingdom is more of a democracy than a monarchy.


It's an anarcho-syndicalist commune!


There's some lovely filth over here.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Oberon » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:41 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
It [archons entering the MK via portal] may never have been tested. Charlie does like to experiment, though.

Oh yeah I'm sure the really smart people in TMK never once considered it either if it were remotely possible.

Why does everyone assume everyone in Erfworld is a complete moron?
Because in many ways, they are. If you are popped "knowing" the rules, you tend to neither question them nor experiment with them. If you're popped "knowing" that crossing a portal is death for any non-caster unit, there is no compelling reason to funnel one unit of each type your side pops into the MK just testing that one of them might be able to live. And if you are also popped "knowing" that an archon is a knight class unit with a random special, there's no reason to believe that it is actually a caster class unit.

Experimentation is therefore very limited. Even the things which the rules probably leave unknown and which are potentially very powerful or profitable, or both, such as the types of items a given bi- or tri-mancer link can create, don't seem to have been pursued with any rigor. As a case in point, it appears that the SPWL spell was researched right around the time the narrative began.
Dr Pepper wrote:
Catalyst wrote: I have gotten the impression somewhere that the magic kingdom is more of a democracy than a monarchy.

It's an anarcho-syndicalist commune!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 57

Postby Sieggy » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:29 pm

Jinren wrote:
Sizemore says "you don't send a caster from the Magic Kingdom to enter a city you don't control." Flimsy, but it very slightly implies that there might be occasions when leaving by a different portal than the one you came in would be acceptable.

I think the issue of being able to enter the Magic Kingdom off-turn and without move is important, too, but I'm not sure what it implies: does it suggest that multiple portals can exist, because crossing the area boundary into the MK isn't cheating; or does it suggest that they can't, because it would become a gamebreaker if the caster could cross the second boundary to leave again in a new location?


Ya know, this could turn into one of those rules-lawyering sessions that every GM dreads . . . I can seriously see Parson getting up on his hunkers and telling the PTB in the MK -

"Look, the simple fact that I didn't croak going through the portal means I have a right to be here - if I didn't, I'd be dead, right? Since I didn't, then the Titans said it's in the rules. I'M following the rules, you aren't. I went from one portal I controlled to another portal I controlled. Nothing in the rules says I can't do that. I was even nice enough to put in a tunnel so I wouldn't disrupt traffic and annoy everyone!

"I'M not the one pushing this Toolism cwap, that was that idiot Ansom, who's not an issue any more since he got hijacked by his crazy girlfriend. And if you don't like what Wanda is doing, then get your own fwiggin' Arkentool and go talk to her about it! She says she's following fate - who am I to argue? I'M just doing exactly the same thing everyone else is doing around here - conquering our neighbors. Like the Titans meant us to do. So, just WHAT is your problem anyway?"
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