Book 2 – Page 58

[No one in particular]

I'm guessing that Janis is going to induce some MASSIVE flaking in everyone, so they're not going to realize that they've spent the last hour staring at the same tree, while she and Parson have a nice leisurely chat.

[ryanroyce]

I'm guessing that Janis is going to induce some MASSIVE flaking in everyone, so they're not going to realize that they've spent the last hour staring at the same tree, while she and Parson have a nice leisurely chat.

Which would be bad for Wanda and Co., who would be all "WTF, where's Hamster?" and stuff...

[drachefly]

No. Remember, time is relative.

[Jinren]

No. Remember, time is relative.

Except that it's not GK's turn, so they don't necessarily have the luxury of taking as long as they need. Time is relative but it does still pass... however that happens.

[badninja]

...has anyone ever even bothered to tell Stanley that Parson can enter the Magic Kingdom?

I doubt it. Parson and all the casters seem to keep Stanley on a need to know basis and this is something that they would conveniently forget to tell him about. The Tool is about to get a nasty surprise about what his CW can do.

[Infidel]

Keep in mind, Great Minds Think Alike.

Maggie obviously Thinks (GET IT? CAPITAL 'T' FOR 'THINKS'...BWAHAHAHA) her Thoughts are the same as the Thoughts of Isaac and the rest of his buddies...as made obvious by the fact Isaac understands her code. Maggie didn't send Isaac a message saying, "Parson Gotti (Lord Hamster) is about to enter the Magic Kingdom. He's gonna travel from Gobwin Knob's portal to Spacerock's portal. Protect." -- No, Maggie used a code which we can only assume the duo had worked out before hand. I mean, this isn't like she's posting a 'Help Wanted'-ad; Maggie is calling for help from an individual (well, group of individuals) she feels as though she can trust...someone she can trust enough to risk their entire side.

That's where we're at right now, of course. If Parson were to die in the Magic Kingdom trying to travel from Gobwin Knob to Spacerock, that could very likely be the end of their side.
....

Lastly, unless Rob comes up with a way of explaining the twist in a manner we haven't seen, I think it would scream poor writing...something Rob hasn't succumbed to yet. An example might be comparable to reading Lord of the Rings (The Fellowship of the Ring)... Frodo/Aragorn/the other hobbits make it to Rivendell aaaand, WHOOPS. Elrond and the rest of his household are actually EVIL. Gandolf was just mistaken; they want the ring for themselves.

Actually, that sounds pretty sweet...

Sigh. Again, having worked out the code beforehand is irrelevant. The alphabet is a code. Claiming that there can be no misunderstanding because they worked out the code in advance, is like claiming that people cannot misunderstand coded messages in the Alphabet because it is being written by the inventor or has been worked out in advance. People misunderstand coded Alphabet messages all the time, even though most people spent 12 years or more training in the Alphabet. I'm absolutely sure that the inventor of the alphabet misunderstood his student's messages periodically.

People really misuse the concept "bad writing" there are more than two options here you know? Having the MtTA misunderstand Maggies message doesn't necessarilly spell Parson's doom, it can dramatically increase the tension when Parson has a confrontation with them however. It could lead to a schism in TMtTA. That would be interesting, although it would delay Parson's arrival even longer

[Jinren]

...has anyone ever even bothered to tell Stanley that Parson can enter the Magic Kingdom?

I doubt it. Parson and all the casters seem to keep Stanley on a need to know basis and this is something that they would conveniently forget to tell him about. The Tool is about to get a nasty surprise about what his CW can do.

I don't get why people are thinking this is going to be an issue...?

Stanley didn't seem surprised that Parson promoted himself to a field unit, so why should he be surprised when Parson takes advantage of that to move off the hex?

[mp122984]

...has anyone ever even bothered to tell Stanley that Parson can enter the Magic Kingdom?

I doubt it. Parson and all the casters seem to keep Stanley on a need to know basis and this is something that they would conveniently forget to tell him about. The Tool is about to get a nasty surprise about what his CW can do.

I don't get why people are thinking this is going to be an issue...?

Stanley didn't seem surprised that Parson promoted himself to a field unit, so why should he be surprised when Parson takes advantage of that to move off the hex?

It's not just that he's moving off the hex. He's entering the Magic Kingdom, which is something only casters are supposed to do. And as far as Stanley's concerned, Parson isn't one. (I'm wondering, btw, how Stanley currently thinks Parson survived the volcano going off.) The realization that Parson has entered the Magic Kingdom may very well be enough of a shock that it snaps the Suggestion.

[Dr Pepper]

All this talk about the thinkamancers mindbending everyone into letting parson pass through. I'm actually looking forward to see what Janis will do. Will she use weird hippymancy skills to calm everyone down? I have no idea how exactly Hippymancy will work in battle.

I once ran a hippy mystic in a Shadowrun game. The way i had her act the one time she used her calming ability was to say "your guns seem to be making you nervous, you'll feel much better when you put them down".

[Atomic]

Sigh. Again, having worked out the code beforehand is irrelevant. The alphabet is a code. Claiming that there can be no misunderstanding because they worked out the code in advance, is like claiming that people cannot misunderstand coded messages in the Alphabet because it is being written by the inventor or has been worked out in advance. People misunderstand coded Alphabet messages all the time, even though most people spent 12 years or more training in the Alphabet. I'm absolutely sure that the inventor of the alphabet misunderstood his student's messages periodically.

People really misuse the concept "bad writing" there are more than two options here you know? Having the MtTA misunderstand Maggies message doesn't necessarilly spell Parson's doom, it can dramatically increase the tension when Parson has a confrontation with them however. It could lead to a schism in TMtTA. That would be interesting, although it would delay Parson's arrival even longer

Sigh. Sure, the alphabet can be used as a code, but that's really not the point. Maggie could be speaking to Isaac in guttural-clickings for all that matters...but to each his own. And yes, there can be (and often are) miscommunications using letters on a very regular basis. Even when things aren't in code. That's gonna happen regardless of careful planning. lol.

The point I was trying to make is that, like I stated before, this is a group of individuals who supposedly 'Think Alike'. These Thinkamancers are casters who either support Parson or oppose Parson. If you're not for him, you're against him...if anyone disagrees with that part of my post, there's no reason to debate/argue with me. That's something I'm very set about. There's no middle-ground in war.

The entire purpose of my post was to say this: Maggie wants to protect Parson. Maggie 'Thinks' like these Thinkamancers. Maggie trusts these Thinkamancers. It'd just be stupid to throw us a curve-ball at this point...a blunt and silly analogy, if you will: if the FBI were to send a coded message to the Secret Service which read, "The President is flying from Washington D.C. to Iraq. Protect", what do you think the Secret Service would take out of that? To protect Iraq or to protect the President?

Oh, no, I'm using the concept of "bad writing" quite well. There aren't two options; there's good writing or there's bad writing. No middle-ground in war, no middle-ground in writing. . Sure, the outcomes might be good or bad for the story, but how in the world will Rob explain the Thinkamancers, called by Maggie, opposing Parson? "Whoops, Maggie was totally wrong about this entire group of people. She accidentally risked her Chief Warlord's/Sizemore's lives because Isaac had a really good poker face"? There's no tension to be had. The only tension present is the kind people are adding by speculating that Isaac is there to slap Parson down.

I'm not saying Rob can't write it well -- I have the utmost faith in Rob writing us an amazing story... but given our present information, it just strikes me as stupid to add in a few pages of conflict with the Thinkamancers for some faux-excitement.

Also, BLAND, you're not supposed to pick apart my hastily constructed examples...it makes it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about. You're shattering my illusion!! . Its been a few years since I read the books, but I seem to remember Gandalf not trusting Saruman near the climax of their arc...somethingsomething greed and somethingsomething studying dark thingies. It's blurry, but I'm quite positive there was never that unequivocal trust we're seeing between Maggie/Isaac. I could be wrong...if I am, I'm sure there's another example from the Chronicles of Narnia I could use. I dunno.

[Lamech]

I have to agree with atomic. Those thinkamancers are a bunch of supporters of Parson and the summon perfect warlord spell. They won't be trying to protect Jetstone. I can't possibly see how a misunderstanding would be good writing. Rob may see a way of course, but I don't think a misunderstanding would be good writing.

[Sylvan]

...a blunt and silly analogy, if you will: if the FBI were to send a coded message to the Secret Service which read, "The President is flying from Washington D.C. to Iraq. Protect", what do you think the Secret Service would take out of that? To protect Iraq or to protect the President?

QFT. I've been thinking along these lines whenever people bring up Isaac being there to hinder Parson. Maggie is superloyal to Parson. Either these guys are there to help Parson in some way, or it is a sneaky gambit by Maggie, like the previous poster who mentioned that maybe they'll throw him into the great temple, shield him from Charlie, use him themselves, etc. Not sure where, it was around pages 3-5 of this thread. Either that, or Maggie is mistaken about Isaac, and he has his own agenda.

I mean, it is possible that Isaac will hinder Parson in some way most of us haven't predicted from the comic. But, it won't be because he misread her message. I'm pretty sure Isaac knows what is going on, and I'm pretty sure he is there to help Parson. I could see him having a different agenda, but we'd have to hear more about it for it to make any kind of sense. We may, or we may not. I dunno, it isn't my story. Personally I don't think it would make for as good a story as the Thinkamancers helping Parson, but we'll see.

[Tesslyn]

Think that was my post on page seven. Yes for all we know the Thinkamancers plan to use Parson as the Magic Kingdom's warlord against charlie, or to enter the game on a mission to pacify every side.

I think Parson may be a Strategymancer, a new type of caster/warlord hybrid that could potentially tri-caster link in such a way as to give a a triple figures leadership bonus. Which would give any side that controlled him victory. Doombats on a grander scale. With such a high number added to thier stats they would each be Titans of Erf. Even as casters able to poke people to death with a finger.

[Smoker]

I get what everyone is saying about the GMWTA being on the same page as Maggie, but even though we assume they support Parson just as much as Maggie does, how best to serve him can considered quite differently by different people - thinking alike or otherwise.

So although it would come as a shock if the Thinkamancers just outright attacked Parson, I still dont think its impossible for them to "Protect" Parson from entering an enemy hex.

OTOH, Marie just said she wants to ensure Parson doesn't croak, and so maybe she will be the one trying to protect/prevent Parson from entering Jetstone, and that's where things will fall apart...

Yeah, it seems very likely that the Thinkamancers will do as Maggie intended, but with a vague message like she posted (and an equally vague confirmation of that message), along with the downright tantric buildup to the next scene, its still (in my mind) a possibility.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Having the MtTA misunderstand Maggies message doesn't necessarilly spell Parson's doom, it can dramatically increase the tension when Parson has a confrontation with them however. It could lead to a schism in TMtTA. That would be interesting, although it would delay Parson's arrival even longer

And, to borrow a page from your points, that's not necessarily bad either. The story doesn't have to depend on Parson getting to Spacerock. Not now or ever. Anything can happen. Including new directions popping up.

[the_tick_rules]

If there is a schism then I guess they don't always think alike

[A Predictamancer]

I would like to remind all of you that Isaac appeared one more time previously.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F140.jpg

His intentions are not in question. He is there to protect Lord Hamster. There is no 'great twist.'

[John Campbell]

It's just a name. It doesn't have to be literally true.

[No one in particular]

The REAL surprise twist is going to turn out to be that there's another conspiracy of casters with their own agenda. The casters this time? Dirtamancers. Because there are so few of them they have to be VERY careful about taking any action, and until recently Sizemore was, at best, an adept-level dirtamancer, they hadn't approached him yet.

With this move though, of making a tunnel to do a bypass run through the MK, they can't wait any longer. They will have to act. They'll reroute the tunnel to talk to Parson, and reveal themselves to Sizemore, finally giving him a community of equals and a sense of belonging that even the MK couldn't quite provide.

They will, of course, call themselves the Underground Movement. And they will have a railroad.

[the_tick_rules]

It's just a name. It doesn't have to be literally true.

I know, but it's more funny my way