Book 2 - Text Updates 046

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby No one in particular » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:55 pm

FACT: From the flash mob, we know that flashing is a form of shockamancy.
FACT: From van de graff and other various lightning bolts, we know the 'Hammer can use shockamancy.
CONCLUSION: At some point in the future, we will see a totally naked Stanely charging in to battle.

There's your fan "service"!
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby skarl » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:59 pm

is that fat one with the mustache obelix?
I'm not serious. I am never serious. seriously!

(please remember that I am a foreign speaker, and therefore make a lot of spelling & gramatic mistakes, and please don't pin me down on my exact formulation.)
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby joosy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:37 pm

I also like the subtle revisit to the story's underlying theme of the role love and personal choice/freedom play in thwarting Fate's advances.

Also.. the automatic rejection of any previous noble titles of the decrypted (first seen in Ansom) has me wonder if there is more to the whole "Re-Popped Again" religion they keep preaching. At first I thought it was just Ansom's way of rationalizing his new found existence and that it became a popular meme among those that followed in his re-creation but now? Hmmm..
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby joosy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:39 pm

skarl wrote:is that fat one with the mustache obelix?


Yes. The reference to him by name and description in at least two updates as Duke Lacrosse must just be an elaborate ruse.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby Menlo Marseilles » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:54 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:He might. I'm guessing he doesn't have any now though, this seems like an impulsive "it's not a game anymore" decision.

I agree that he probably doesn't have a complete plan, but I wouldn't characterize this move as "impulsive". Irrational and suboptimal, sure. Emotionally-driven, sure. But it's absolutely premeditated.
and in despair i bowed my head
"there is no peace on erf," i said
for fate is strong and mocks the song
of peace on erf, good will to men
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:04 pm

joosy wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:
joosy wrote:I predict a big attitude shift if Jillian ever learns that it was Wanda who betrayed Faq to Stanley. Not that Stanley will now be her love interest


And why not? :P


I just threw up in my mouth a lot there.


Not sure why that should be. After all, Stanley is the embodiment of manhood.

Because let's face it, he's a dick.

No one in particular wrote:FACT: From the flash mob, we know that flashing is a form of shockamancy.
FACT: From van de graff and other various lightning bolts, we know the 'Hammer can use shockamancy.
CONCLUSION: At some point in the future, we will see a totally naked Stanely charging in to battle.

There's your fan "service"!


Yes, yes, yes, do it! Titans DO ITT! Now that would be hilarious!Having Stanley run around in the buff to the shock of the Erfworld residents, while us the readership is being, hopefully, spared of the sight of little Stanley by increasingly implausibly placed bits of scenery.

joosy wrote:I also like the subtle revisit to the story's underlying theme of the role love and personal choice/freedom play in thwarting Fate's advances.

Also.. the automatic rejection of any previous noble titles of the decrypted (first seen in Ansom) has me wonder if there is more to the whole "Re-Popped Again" religion they keep preaching. At first I thought it was just Ansom's way of rationalizing his new found existence and that it became a popular meme among those that followed in his re-creation but now? Hmmm..


It kinda still works on that level. Meaning, Nobles were committed by Duty to one cause whi*WHAM* now they're committed to another cause opposed to Nobility, and bound by Duty (and maybe more) to it. What other explanations are palatable, than the hope that the old cause is doomed? And, you know, not the ability of the Universe to play fast and loose with their very souls?
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby konmanrocks » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:18 pm

No one in particular wrote:FACT: From the flash mob, we know that flashing is a form of shockamancy.
FACT: From van de graff and other various lightning bolts, we know the 'Hammer can use shockamancy.
CONCLUSION: At some point in the future, we will see a totally naked Stanely charging in to battle.

There's your fan "service"!

thank you for that, i now need to go scrub my eyeballs with a cheese grater + bleach
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby Zeku » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:27 pm

udat wrote:I think that's the best Wanda has looked in Book 2!


She's wearing less. This is just the truth, nothing more.

I believe shockamancy can be anything that stuns you. Didn't the underground attack by sizemore in TBFGK consist of a tubgirl/lemonparty/etc shockamancy scroll, then a crap golem explosion?


By the way, I haven't said anything so far, because I wanted to see where the author was going with this, but the behavior seen in Wanda's new recruits is nearly perfectly consistent with the way 'born-again' christians are portrayed to the world at large. Ie, an immediate and illogical change in disposition and preference, but very little change in personal character, especially over the long-term. It's kind of a cynical way of presenting it, since these decrypted are just a variation on a mindless zombies, but you have to admit, it's accurate. Wanda herself is also a religious nutbag, which can only be interpreted as a personal hypocrisy, given the violence of her actions. She has no vision, and thus is doomed to be a tragic figure.

I think the guy on the far right is squinting because Lacrosse is sticking a thumb in his face.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:40 pm

Zeku wrote:Wanda herself is also a religious nutbag, which can only be interpreted as a personal hypocrisy, given the violence of her actions. She has no vision, and thus is doomed to be a tragic figure.


Pet nitpick on the "tragic figure". Which sense of tragic is this?

Because I can totally see Wanda as a classical tragic (anti)hero, meaning an exceptional and flawed being wrestling against forces much greater than themselves. Hubris is one way to bring the tragic hero down. So is hypocrisy. A lack of vision is usually not the failure of the tragic hero- oh, they have vision alright, but the gods don't take kindly to it.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby Grimnir » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:07 pm

Hmmm. I believe that waiting for Parson is the correct choice. Once he arrives communication between leadership and troops should be easier, and that is very important on the battlefield.

Is Sizemore going to cross through the portal as well? He is a very powerful caster and could be useful in this situation.

Anyway, it was a good update. Watching Wanda and Jack talk is always interesting.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby Zeku » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:27 pm

Pet nitpick on the "tragic figure". Which sense of tragic is this?

Because I can totally see Wanda as a classical tragic (anti)hero, meaning an exceptional and flawed being wrestling against forces much greater than themselves. Hubris is one way to bring the tragic hero down. So is hypocrisy. A lack of vision is usually not the failure of the tragic hero- oh, they have vision alright, but the gods don't take kindly to it.


She doesn't realize her girlfriend is just a thrill-seeking bimbo. (no offense here, I don't think we have a lot of Jillian fanboys) When she finally understands that there is no loyalty there, no plan, and no future, it will be at a moment when she has invested too much to save herself. In fact, you could say this is already true. I don't think this is news. Jack already pointed out, in this update, that Jillian is her weak point, just waiting to be attacked for massive damage. Wanda is believing this religious stuff because she has no clue what her own identity is.

Then add the pliers. The power of the pliers is insane. We've been spared the conversion of any sympathetic characters, but being enslaved by them is an instant re-write of loyalties and passions. You could argue that the core character is preserved, but the imagery is again religious: I'm reminded of Lucifer saying something like 'Id rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.' A person's biases can be so strong, that they will intentionally endure pain rather than accept change, even if that change will result in an improvement to their life. (You could argue that it is death itself that produces the change, but the pliers complete the process.)

Wanda wields the power to recreate anyone in her own image, and all we've seen so far is that she is 'pursuing the will of the Titans?' She's daft. She has no anchor, and is thereby, a nobody. Someone like Charlie (or Parson) will wield that power through her, and she will gain nothing by being the true owner of it. This is a tragic figure. Like Stanley, she is just a servant of forces she will never perceive.

This is unrelated, but I'm starting to think more and more than attunement only requires the correct unit type.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby drachefly » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 pm

Hammer being warlords? Didn't Parson touch it at one point? I guess he might be exempted.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby Jinren » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:33 pm

Grimnir wrote:Is Sizemore going to cross through the portal as well? He is a very powerful caster and could be useful in this situation.


"He didn't order you through, did he? You're not going through this portal...!

"No," sighed Sizemore. He did not look up at all.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:38 pm

Still might happen though. Sizemore might be pushed or chased through the Jetstone portal by whatever mob conflict is about to happen. Or Janis or Marie might tell Sizemore that he "should" follow Parson and help him. Might be other reasons.

Also, I totally forgot about Jillian's new source of funds. I think she could spot Transylvito and Jetstone both some repayment on the loans she's received. This action might defuse a revolt by Caesar.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:39 pm

Zeku wrote:Then add the pliers. The power of the pliers is insane. We've been spared the conversion of any sympathetic characters,


Only technically correct, since who I'm thinking of as an exception was not a character ;) neither was that other guy really, not before, then afterwards somethings interesting are hinted at ... anyway where were we-

Zeku wrote:but being enslaved by them is an instant re-write of loyalties and passions. You could argue that the core character is preserved, but the imagery is again religious: I'm reminded of Lucifer saying something like 'Id rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.' A person's biases can be so strong, that they will intentionally endure pain rather than accept change, even if that change will result in an improvement to their life. (You could argue that it is death itself that produces the change, but the pliers complete the process.)

Wanda wields the power to recreate anyone in her own image, and all we've seen so far is that she is 'pursuing the will of the Titans?' She's daft. She has no anchor, and is thereby, a nobody. Someone like Charlie (or Parson) will wield that power through her, and she will gain nothing by being the true owner of it. This is a tragic figure. Like Stanley, she is just a servant of forces she will never perceive.


I am having some trouble following the argument here, in that I don't see what the religious imagery (Lucifer preffering to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven) has to do with the ability to instantly reconfigure Loyalties.

In any case, I agree to Wanda being in for a big fall eventually. What I'm not sure I'd call her is daft, even if, now having a huge power at her disposal, she seems ... unimaginative ... in deploying it. She doesn't exactly know what she should be doing with it. She's waiting for Fate to tell her what to do == she's waiting for things to unfold and hopefully gain insight and opportunity. Not necessarily daft.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby mortissimus » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:43 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
joosy wrote:Also.. the automatic rejection of any previous noble titles of the decrypted (first seen in Ansom) has me wonder if there is more to the whole "Re-Popped Again" religion they keep preaching. At first I thought it was just Ansom's way of rationalizing his new found existence and that it became a popular meme among those that followed in his re-creation but now? Hmmm..


It kinda still works on that level. Meaning, Nobles were committed by Duty to one cause whi*WHAM* now they're committed to another cause opposed to Nobility, and bound by Duty (and maybe more) to it. What other explanations are palatable, than the hope that the old cause is doomed? And, you know, not the ability of the Universe to play fast and loose with their very souls?


Do for certain if they retain their decrypted retains their nobility/royalty flag in game terms? (As they are unlikely to rule, this would mainly affect their leveling, if I recall correctly.)

If they do not, it would be typical Erfworld if they feel it is no longer important.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:48 pm

mortissimus wrote:Do for certain if they retain their decrypted retains their nobility/royalty flag in game terms? (As they are unlikely to rule, this would mainly affect their leveling, if I recall correctly.)

If they do not, it would be typical Erfworld if they feel it is no longer important.


Interesting point, yet wouldn't the interval be rather short for them, even Sylvia, to realize that they're not levelling as fast as before? Remember that level-up is something that they know happens and can feel when, but XPs are more of a theory as they are invisible, (this was WoT:Rob btw at some point) so they couldn't easily tell how fast they aquire XPs post-decryption as compared to before

The exception to WoT:Rob's statement was that time when Wanda had Sylvia croak Ossomer which implied Wanda was able to tell when Sylvia was close to levelling).
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby mortissimus » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:55 pm

Yes, I do not think the change in XP gathering/level would be measurable unless there is a huge difference between noble/royal and others.

If they lost their titles and it is detectable, it should be so through other units observation. Like "Hey, you are not a Duke anymore!" However, titles does not appear to be directly visible as far as I can tell.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby Zeku » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:04 pm

I am having some trouble following the argument here, in that I don't see what the religious imagery (Lucifer preferring to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven) has to do with the ability to instantly reconfigure Loyalties.


The victims of the pliers serve in heaven. They no longer rule in hell. Their passions have been mutated, and in many cases, mirrored: they are obedient, and very happy about it.

The New Testament is one long story of the conflict between flesh and spirit, and how the flesh must necessarily 'die,' being not only a literal death, but also signifying the end of certain passions which are inconsistent with what the author believes to be a rewarding spiritual existence. Galatians in particular has a lot of quotes on this subject.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 046

Postby Lightbender » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:07 pm

Wanda reminds me of Xykon from Order of the Stick sometimes.

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