No one in particular wrote:I don't really see where you're coming from on this. If your business is struggling, and your friend's business is struggling and on fire, now isn't really the best time to be investing. And while they may not be close friends like Jetstone was, there ARE other sides that TV can ally with, that aren't about to Fall or are asking for all their money.
Your friend's business is the one keeping the fire away from your business. And you can loan him the money to buy, not a fire extinguisher, but some fire retardant. If you do, your friend is still keeping the fire away from you. If you don't, you're likely to be on fire yourself. Sure, resources are tight, and it'll cost you to take this step. It may even look horrible in the near term. But that's why it's called strategy, a concept Caesar does not grasp.
No one in particular wrote:
Oberon wrote:Caesar is treasonous. The degree can be argued, but not the fact. When you oppose, contradict, and subvert your ruler's authority, you are treasonous. You may color it loyalty to the nation, loyalty to some higher calling, or whatever other justification allows you to sleep at night. But at the end of the day, it is still treason.
I would argue something like tough love here... or tough duty, I guess. If you love someone, you don't necessarily want what they want, you want what's best for them
. A kid might want to eat nothing but candy and ice cream, but a parent will tell them no and make them have vegetables. An alcoholic might want a drink, but friends and loved ones will tell them no and stage an intervention. Caesar here honestly, truly believes that they cannot afford this loan. If they make it, production on new units would have to be stopped, old units would have to be disbanded... units that TV's going to need badly if they want any hope for the coming fight with GK.
Ok, I'll buy this. Caesar thinks he is advising Don towards what is best for TV. But note, he's not really advising. He just staged a stand-down that could have ended far more worse were Don a more fiery tempered ruler. But my point stands, Caesar is looking to the near term, and contradicting Don who is looking to the long term. In the end, the long term goals will see TV in a much better position than the short term goals.
Oberon wrote:The facts of the matter are that Caesar is so horribly short sighted that he shouldn't even be opening his yap when discussing anything other than the fight right in front of him. And by now you might think that the other TV warlords would have recognized this in Caesar. It's kind of sad that they haven't.
The other warlords in the room seem to agree with the assessment, making the loan may keep GK away a little longer but since their side is hanging on by a thread the loan would also push them over the edge.
They don't speak, so it's hard to evaluate how they really feel. And Caesar has been amongst them talking up his subversive propaganda and undermining their confidence in Don for many turns. And none of them look happy about the situation at all. I think it is a long stretch to assume that they all love Caesar's stance. They stood with him, and that's all that matters at this time, but they should know by now that Caesar has serious issues when it comes to long term thinking.
the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
I don't see it.
3: Caesar didn't betray anything or anyone. He gave his asked for opinion to Benjamin.
3 applies quite well. Caesar has spent turns talking down Don's leadership, to the point where when Benjamin was given an order he decided that he had to, what? get Caesar's opinion on it before faithfully carrying it out. And then Caesar talked Benjamin and the entire warlord cadre into standing down Don over the order.
The campaign of subversive destruction of Don's authority was treacherous. The rallying of forces against Don's leadership was treacherous. The contradiction of Don's authority was treacherous. Don recognizes this quite clearly when he ironically agrees with Caesar that the "troubles are here at home."
Kozbot wrote:One thing I don't get is why people keep talking about how the loan will have any impact on whether or not Jetstone survives this turn. The only thing that will change is the loan is made is Trem will be leading Jetstone, and they'll still most likely be destroyed in short order, but certainly not this turn.
The regime change is exactly why the loan will potentially extend Jetstone's future. Slately was the monarch who orchestrated the disastrous RCC and RCCII alliances, due to his prejudices against non-royal sides. Both campaigns placed all of the royal sides involved in them into precarious positions. Jetstone is nearly broke, harvesting sourmanders and razing minor cities for upkeep costs. TV is nearly broke, and unable to decisively defeat Carpool to secure their borders. Unaroyal is no more. And every other member of the RCC lost significant forces in TBfGK, and risks even more as members of the RCCII.
Tram, despite his earlier carrying of the idiot-ball, has more recently been portrayed as being very quick to grasp tactical situations, and his diplomatic outlook in being willing to speak to Charlie, Parson, and Ossomer is vastly more open minded and able to adapt than Slately could ever hope to be.