Book 2 – Page 59

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby GaryThunder » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:20 am

This was the last time Don was ever going to talk to Slately either way, really. Either Don makes the loan and Slately rides off into a blaze of glory, or Don doesn't and Slately gets dogpiled by Decrypted as he tries to flee. Doesn't make it any less sad, though.
GaryThunder
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Staberinde » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:18 am

Agree with ColdFury, Tramennis would not die here. Charlie has already offered to give money to Jetstone, he will probably follow up on that offer with better terms.

Tramennis listed best options for Jetstone a couple of comics back - if they cannot hold garrison, they should withdraw. In any case, they won't be a threat to GK for quite some time. Jetstone's future will lie on how much effort GK will put in mopping them up. If the capital falls, GK could certainly get all Jetstone cities and force them to go barbarian . GK will probably face a bigger threat before they can mop up all Jetstone however, so we will see Jetstone as a side player after this arc. Anyway Jetstone goes, not making the loan is a better choice for Transylvito; thus Caesar is essentially correct.

I am a bit disappointed with the page however. Art is good, but plotwise, we get a full page alloted to something we are told about 3-4 times before. At this point, we know Jetstone is booped, Transylvito is about to burst into a civil war, Charlie has dropped Faqq and Wanda is sticking with GK for the moment. Thus GK conquers all and lives happily ever after? Where will the next challenge come from? I feel the comic should be building the next challenge up.
Staberinde
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby MoredanKantose » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:31 am

clik wrote:I guess that went... smoothly.

It seems like a horribly bad tactical decision to let Jetstone fall. Won't that leave many neutral cities, full of easy-to-decrypt troops? It basically lets GK absorb all the other cities with minimal losses (actually, with great gains in troops and cities).

Obviously it won't happen like that, but it really does make me question Caesar's ability to grasp the big picture as a warlord. That is something even conventional thinking warlords should understand. They have got to be incredibly close to GK since FAQ is right nearby to both of them. I don't see Caesar as the diplomatic sort so I really don't understand how he thinks they are better off in this scenario where they are the next in line for a curb-stomping when they are at their weakest and GK is at its strongest.


Hello!

Maybe Cesar consiers that Transylvito can survive in many other ways, including becoming neutral or even ally of GK. Maybe he does not think so much about winning the war as only possibility.
~ No longer a supporter (proud or not) ~
MoredanKantose
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:07 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:34 am

Hey-- Bunny has facial expressions! I wonder if she's upset about the division in the ranks, or the fate of Jetstone, or the risk that Caesar is taking.

Or maybe she's just sad to realize they're about to lose her favorite batcam.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
User avatar
Dr Pepper
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: santa maria, ca

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby wykstrad » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:56 am

Caesar: Our troubles are here at home.

Don: Yeah, Caesar. Yeah they certainly are.


That exchange gave me chills. If there was any doubt that the Don/Caesar power struggle is coming to a head, those two panels erased it.
wykstrad
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:32 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby MoredanKantose » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:07 am

wykstrad wrote:
Caesar: Our troubles are here at home.
Don: Yeah, Caesar. Yeah they certainly are.

That exchange gave me chills. If there was any doubt that the Don/Caesar power struggle is coming to a head, those two panels erased it.

Power struggle... I do not know. I was in that kind of situation myself, in real life. You know that your boss does not like you, but you know that he knows that you are good and he cannot just drop you. So, you prepare to resist a difficult situation until you can manage your boss to like you again, or you can change the team. In this case, with all this loyalty and respect around (nobody is really critisizing Don as a whole, only his decisions on the war), I think that treason is not an option. I look at the panel in page 56, the previous to the last. This expression of Cesar. I have been there. Proud, worried, self-assured, ready to withstand a long unpleasant situation. But loyal. I don't think he is thinking about any kind of treason.
~ No longer a supporter (proud or not) ~
MoredanKantose
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:07 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby GreyHat » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:39 am

MoredanKantose wrote:
wykstrad wrote:
Caesar: Our troubles are here at home.
Don: Yeah, Caesar. Yeah they certainly are.

That exchange gave me chills. If there was any doubt that the Don/Caesar power struggle is coming to a head, those two panels erased it.

Power struggle... I do not know. I was in that kind of situation myself, in real life. You know that your boss does not like you, but you know that he knows that you are good and he cannot just drop you. So, you prepare to resist a difficult situation until you can manage your boss to like you again, or you can change the team. In this case, with all this loyalty and respect around (nobody is really critisizing Don as a whole, only his decisions on the war), I think that treason is not an option. I look at the panel in page 56, the previous to the last. This expression of Cesar. I have been there. Proud, worried, self-assured, ready to withstand a long unpleasant situation. But loyal. I don't think he is thinking about any kind of treason.


With respect, I disagree. I see Caesar's loyalty as more directed to his side, rather to Don King personally. He sees Don King's decision as something that would lead to Transylvito's ruin. Furthermore, as a non-Royal, Caesar knows it is highly unlikely that Don would ever promote him to an heir, even though he is Chief Warlord and has the support of most of Transylvito's top brass. Whether out of selfishness (promotion!) or altruism (to give Transylvito proper leadership), Caesar has ample motive to stage a coup.

Not saying that it will happen, of course. Just that it's a high possibility. Bet it sucks to be Bunny now, caught between ruler and secret boyfriend.

Oh, and long-time lurker coming out of closet. Also, great writing & art, as usual.
GreyHat
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:13 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:19 am

GreyHat wrote:Furthermore, as a non-Royal, Caesar knows it is highly unlikely that Don would ever promote him to an heir, even though he is Chief Warlord and has the support of most of Transylvito's top brass.


Caesar already is the heir.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
User avatar
Dr Pepper
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: santa maria, ca

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Berserkas » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:50 am

Meanwhile, GK (whose turn is coming up again) has suffered almost nothing.


I have to disagree there. GK lost ALL their ground troops, a powerful level 10 warlord, (and 2 less powerful ones. Remeber Ford?) and all their air units are Decrypted, meaning that they cannot be revived again, and are one-use only now. If the dwagon armada gets wiped out now, GK will have literally no forces to speak of whatsoever, AND their cities (who have little troops to guard them, as they went to the Jetstone fight) are being raided by queen Jillian, who could probably easily take nearly every outlying GK city there is.

They're in some deep crap themselves.
Berserkas
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:00 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Jinren » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:58 am

Berserkas wrote:
Meanwhile, GK (whose turn is coming up again) has suffered almost nothing.


I have to disagree there. GK lost ALL their ground troops, a powerful level 10 warlord, (and 2 less powerful ones. Remeber Ford?) and all their air units are Decrypted, meaning that they cannot be revived again, and are one-use only now. If the dwagon armada gets wiped out now, GK will have literally no forces to speak of whatsoever, AND their cities (who have little troops to guard them, as they went to the Jetstone fight) are being raided by queen Jillian, who could probably easily take nearly every outlying GK city there is.

They're in some deep crap themselves.


...prior to the discovery of Decryption, all units were single-use only. Their air force is now "only" a normal unstoppably-huge dwagon fleet, with units that will actually stay dead. The whole point of the decryption is that it lets them absorb what would normally be a loss at no cost - the extra life is a bonus on top of normal considerations.
Jinren
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Squishalot » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:06 am

Ok, let's be clear here. Slately needs the schmuckers so that he can promote Tram to heir and run to his death. He doesn't need it to 'save his side'.

Tram's battle plan is as follows:

1) Clear a path for Slately to get out of Jetstone.

2) Assess whether the garrison is capturable, and if it is, attack.

What isn't explicitly stated is what will happen if he assesses that the garrison is not beatable. In this instance, I would envisage that he would leave the city along with Slately.

As long as Tram and Slately move quick enough, it's still an option (from an in-game point of view, not necessarily a plot point of view). As a result, Caesar is absolutely right to reject the idea of sending the gem, even if he did know the full situation.
Squishalot
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:04 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Smoker » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:26 am

How's this for a theory:

Don is going to say goodbye, but not because Slately is going to croak.
He's about to find some way to transfer the funds anyway, which will pretty much mean the end for Don.

That makes the "Yeah they certainly are." line a bit more meaningful, and a bit scary.
No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. - Dante
User avatar
Smoker
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:46 am

Smoker wrote:How's this for a theory:

Don is going to say goodbye, but not because Slately is going to croak.
He's about to find some way to transfer the funds anyway, which will pretty much mean the end for Don.

That makes the "Yeah they certainly are." line a bit more meaningful, and a bit scary.


That thing would certainly be an interesting twist, for sure. Not sure how/why Don would pull that off (I'm unclear on the TV succession thing; is Caesar the backup by Erfworld rules?), but it would certainly throw a spanner in the works.

OTOH, all of this started by Slately wishing to croak gloriously. He doesn't have to. Had he not been stubborn, Slately would be out of Spacerock by now, with an evac overseen by Trem, who appeared competent enough to organize it.

Also, I'm with mblackadder on this one- other options exist.

However, an interesting theme of the recent updates has been suboptimality in the name of <insert "untangible"/"spiritual" quality here>.

Parson is putting himself needlessly at risk, so as to soothe his conscience. (Even if somehow in the future it will turn out that Parson's arrival at Spacerock is tactically useful, that's not the reason he went for it and we all know it.)

Slately is cruising for a heroic death, to at least gain an amazing exit to what he sees as a wasted life.

Don is putting his side at risk in the name of friendship, be that to Slately and Bea.

And what I like about all of this is that, at least while the magic of the update lasts, the powergamer part of the audience of this comic might, just might, shut up about how survival and optimality are everything. :P
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
User avatar
BLANDCorporatio
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Azukar » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:53 am

Oh man, that was really sad :(

Also, let's repeat what someone before me said: Bunny is wearing an eye-in-a-triangle choker! I guess she's involved with the Great Minds that Think Alike, then?

What I wouldn't give to see the g-strings she's using right now!
---

-Az
Azukar
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:50 am
Location: Australia - NSW

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Codex » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:08 am

Azukar wrote:Also, let's repeat what someone before me said: Bunny is wearing an eye-in-a-triangle choker! I guess she's involved with the Great Minds that Think Alike, then?

Mmmmaybe. Or maybe the eye-in-the-triangle is a Thinkamancy icon, and all Thinkamancers sport it one way or another. Really, apart from Bunny and Maggie, how many Thinkamancers have we seen (in enough close-up detail to examine their accessories)? We don't need to be jumping all the way to GMtTA allegiance here.

Please correct me if I've missed any counter-examples. Not that I wouldn't expect that to happen anyway, on this forum. ;)
Codex
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:28 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Pax » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:13 am

mblackadder wrote:Two-Strategic VS Tactical
Turning Jetsone allied troops into enemy troops is a serious strategic mistake as will happen if Jetsone falls Tool forces are well on their way to massively increasing as is their war chest and city count

There's also this to consider: unless Tramennis can get the casters out of the capital before Jetstone falls (thus disbanding them, as unsupported units-in-the-field) ...?

GK is about to discover what happens when you decrypt a Caster. They're about to find out SEVERAL TIMES. And if the decrypted caster becomes a zero-upkeep Commander, with all it's former Casting abilities intact?

Transylvito will be even MORE booped than they ever could have imagined.

EDIT TO ADD: holy boop; Parson is the person in all of Erf most likely to appreciate some of the stuff that Ace Hardware creates - like that Jetpack!!
Last edited by Pax on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Pax
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: U.S. Northeast

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Smoker » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:14 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:That thing would certainly be an interesting twist, for sure. Not sure how/why Don would pull that off (I'm unclear on the TV succession thing; is Caesar the backup by Erfworld rules?), but it would certainly throw a spanner in the works.


If Don is of the belief that Jetstone is the last hope of the free Erfworld against GK, he might be fully prepared to deliberately spark an outright rebellion. I'm sure he could get someone from the MK to make the gem.

But mostly what I want to say is that's a sweet avatar :)
No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. - Dante
User avatar
Smoker
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby Limiate » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:48 am

Charlie as the savior? I think not.

Tramennis is a shrewd diplomat and will preserve their side after being abandoned by their "allies."

My speculation: Parson will be the savior. Final battle happens, it's down to the end for Jetstone and either through parlay or talking in combat or something, Tramennis and Parson meet and talk. Wanda is really anxious to end the battle and wipe their side but Parson's newfound anti-ruthlessness stops him from wiping them out and fullfilling his hippiemancer/predictmancer prophecy.

Somehow Jestone and GK either become allies or agree not to fight anymore. My additional guess? At the end of this book, Tramennis and Parson agree to take down Charlie.
Sigh.
Limiate
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:04 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby CaptC » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:55 am

If Bunny had access to that kind of money, it's much more likely that Transylvito would get the benefit directly. Duty, ya know.
I read the reactions forum for two days after an Erfworld post. Those two days rank with the best the internet offers: intelligent posters pointing out the fun stuff I missed. After that... well, let's just say the quality tends to degrade dramatically.
CaptC
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:14 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 59

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:56 am

Limiate wrote:Somehow Jestone and GK either become allies or agree not to fight anymore. My additional guess? At the end of this book, Tramennis and Parson agree to take down Charlie.


Unlikely. There's too much momentum behind the battle for Parson and Trem to stop on a "whim".

Wanda may not know what she wants, but I doubt she'd find it in her heart to call the attack off.

Slately will have none of that peace nonsense.

Don will have none of that peace nonsense.

Stanley will surely barge in and save the day as soon as an opportunity for him to influence the battle (even if only via Thinkagram) appears.

TL;DR, there's too many agents here which are dead set on croaking each other now, for Trem and Parson to efficiently order into a ceasefire. Presuming they would want to, because they too are in battle mode.

As for rallying against Charlie, no way. Jetstone has no reason to suddenly switch sides with until-a-second-ago hostile GK, against a mysterious side that only recently provided some kind of help.

No way. Not now. Later.

Theme 2:

Why would TGMtTA want to rescue Trem?

Theme 3:

Smoker wrote:But mostly what I want to say is that's a sweet avatar :)


Welcome :)
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
User avatar
BLANDCorporatio
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sixty, victor227 and 16 guests