Book 2 - Text Updates 047

[imany]

The turnamancer couldn't turn Ansom, but that only means that either the decrypted are unable to voluntarily switch sides or they are imunne to mind-affecting spells.

No no. The Turnamancer hasn't yet tried to turn Ansom, because she's still out of juice from the Kingworld spell.

I thought she tried already.

There is some implication that the dungeon helps (or is required?) for turning units with high loyalty scores. I wouldn't call the linked page an attempt to turn, any more than Jillian's parley with Wanda or her subsequent offer to Jack; it looks more like Vanna scanned Ansom to see what was going on with him, but couldn't tell what it was.

As for this text update, it does give a small insight on Loyalty and Duty. Interesting that Ossomer doesn't think it's his Duty to fix the chink--while I was reading it, I kept thinking Ossomer would have a lightbulb moment where he would realize he was in the air to defend the archons. Apparently not.

[GaryThunder]

I like how there are so many fatalistic characters present, but they're all played so very differently.

Wanda: "One can run from Fate, but suffering follows, and escape is impossible. Ansom ran away that day. Did it save him? Did it keep the Arkenpliers from her grasp? Where had it led him? Croaked at the hands of a lowly henchman, in full view of all of his men...Running toward Fate is the only way to lessen the hardship." She thinks of Fate as a stern teacher, perhaps; a definite plan in mind, and you are going to go along with it, it's just a question of how much you're willing to let your futile struggles cause misery to rain on your head as you pull at Fate's unbreakable leash. At the end of the day, Wanda believes, you'll be in the position Fate wants you to be. Running away just means you'll be there tired.

Sylvia: "As she plunged toward the shattered roof, the city swelling up to meet her and the dwagon's limp wings flapping behind like battle standards, she couldn't even manage concern. She faced her doom this time around like a gambler with a pat hand. Oblivion was bluffing. Showboating, even...Her body had massive bruising and tearing, but she was not incapacitated. At least, not until the dwagon's body crumpled over on to her. The Titans played such strange games with their dolls." Sylvia believes in slightly more autonomy than Wanda does, I think. Sylvia seems to be of the opinion that Fate can be resisted, or perhaps...almost taunted, the way she does things. She plunges unhesitatingly into any situation, battle or falling hundreds of feet into an enemy city, because she is, as the narration indicates, literally beyond fear - it's as if she's daring the world to kill her, if it thinks it's got the stones.

Ossomer: "If he allowed that to happen. Of course, he could not. But if the Titans allowed that to happen, it surely would Signify something...Leaving his sword in its scabbard, he pulled the carpet to the very edge of enemy ground. The Titans' will would be done, whatever might happen. He looked down, and the odd-shaped stone tile again caught his eye. But for once, it looked as if it were meant to be where it was." Ossomer's belief in Fate seems almost completely inflexible. I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to me as if he doesn't believe he has any choice at all in what he does or what happens to him. Given current circumstances, this makes sense, I'll admit. Very depressing, really; it seems to some like he wants to die but knows (believes) that even that choice isn't his to make. He's doing the only thing he's capable of, and let the Titans take him where they will.

Ossomer's current gloom contrasts nicely with his bravado at Exposition Bridge, but it's interesting to note that he's expressing broadly the same rhetoric each time, just packaged differently: "Perhaps Royalty is obsolete. Perhaps the Titans have forsaken honor...But I am what I am. And so here I stand. I will make you and the Titans prove your claim." Amazing, the way Rob is able to keep this all consistent. I don't know if I could even conceive of such a task, in the long run...

[drachefly]

Yeah, with like a 1% ration of juice for the attempt. No realistic chance of success even if he's totally turnable.

[Atomic]

There is some implication that the dungeon helps (or is required?) for turning units with high loyalty scores. I wouldn't call the linked page an attempt to turn, any more than Jillian's parley with Wanda or her subsequent offer to Jack; it looks more like Vanna scanned Ansom to see what was going on with him, but couldn't tell what it was.

Regardless of how realistic the turning attempt was, Vanna was still trying to turn Ansom. She even said so. I'm not saying whether or not Decrypted units are turn-able, but there was most definitely an attempt at it.

As glad as I am that Ossomer is becoming more fleshed out, it's sort of upsetting to see that he's willing/able to turn, or give up, so quickly. I understand that Wanda has been acting like a complete monster (for about the entirety we've known her. lol.), and I also grasp that Gobwin Knob is behaving veeeery un-Royal...but is Ossomer the only unit from Gobwin Knob that's noticed her/their side's actions?

I mean, Ansom/Sylvia have been marching with Wanda since Day 1. K.C. has been with their Stack'o'Doom for a while, too. Are we expected to believe that no one else is appalled at the choices Gobwin Knob/Wanda have been making to-date? Or is this just the first time they haven't completely steamrolled an opposing army? It doesn't really strike me as anything new, since Wanda started talking about ditching Adam Antium and the rest if things got hairy... It seems like this has been their attitude from the get-go: "Everyone but Wanda is expendable. Sucks to be you."

I've never liked the Defeatism-type of attitude, either, so maybe that's why I'm a little grumpy. The idea that nothing you do matters? Blargh. Silly Ossomer. Then again, maybe it's more than defeatism...since it's "religiously" affiliated, perhaps it'd be best to call it predestination? Ossomer believes his actions are all predestined by the Titans themselves, so who is he to argue with them? Same views as Wanda/Sylvia, just a different twinge to 'em, I suppose.

[Oberon]

What happened to the flower on his skull crest?

Why is Pierce still holding the drink he gave to Ace?

Also, this reminds me of Wanda. She wasn't loyal to Stanley, she was loyal to Fate. Ossomer is essentially doing the same thing... shifting his loyalty to the Titans rather than to a Tool of the Titans.

It seems to me to be more of a convoluted justification. "If I'm killed, then the Titans permitted it. Even if I saw the attack coming and took absolutely no actions to protect myself." It's like the cult that won't seek medical attention because if they get sick and die it must be the will of God. Utter bullshit. Joan of Arc said “Act, and God will act”, Jesus said (to the spirit of temptation), “It (scripture) says: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'”

If I call in to work sick for a month and lose my job because they need productive workers or discover that I am goldbricking, it's not because of the will of God that I am unemployed... The fault lies solely with me and my choice of actions.

But his Duty has fallen through the floor. Duty is what compels commanders to work for their side on their own initiative - not just to follow orders, but to take action. Ossomer isn't doing that. He sees that Slately is planning something... that he perhaps could stop it by stacking with all the Archons and defending... but does nothing. In fact, he even inches closer to his death/capture. Not strictly disobeying orders - but not taking the action he suspects needs to be done.

Agreed, he is thinking about allowing himself to be killed by doing nothing about the tactical situation as he has just reappraised it. That is a failure of Duty.

Had the Titans no use for such distinctions, in the Age of Hamster? No, surely they must.

Surely the new mantle of Titanic power must be carried with even greater majesty. In some important way, the disciples of Lady Firebaugh and the Arkenpliers were failing their Duty, and would pay the price.

Ossomer is deciding for himself what the Titans must think or want, based upon the flimsiest of rationale: "Surely the Titans would want royalty to be ceremoniously beheaded after the combat is over rather than dying with their troops. That is somehow more noble and befitting their station in life." And then he appears to use that decision of his about the Titan's preferences to subvert his Duty to his side. Yeah, right.

One can run from Fate, but suffering follows, and escape is impossible.

No. Running toward Fate is the only way to lessen the hardship.

Wanda is speaking about acting, and letting the chips fall as they may as the result of those actions. It other words, acting, and calling the results "the will of the Titans." What Ossomer is contemplating is diametrically opposed to Wanda's philosophy, he is contemplating failing to act and then justifying the results as being "the will of the Titans."

[kreszantas]

This comment was misposted in the Page 59 updates... apologize and reposted here....


Looking at this update from a different perspective... Lady Sylvia one of "lower" station in the terms of rank and noble obloese gets to do an amazingly effective strategy. Ossomer looks as though he as been discarded after the information that he gave up... and it was NOT voluntary by the way (pliers moreso than Wanda). Instead of being placed in an position of importance by rank it is now shown to be done with desire and capability where the one on high should be doing the leading instead of the lowest.

... Statley realized this too late when he said he always had the wrong son leading.

This is a conflux not introduced before the pliers and thus in a perspective of the "longest tenured" decrypted gain more benefits. Think of it as a union, non-union employment situation where the ones on top of the "workforce from the union" get all the bennies and the "lower less" tenured get the "shaft" or so they think in the beginning, even worse is the non-union grunt who are worthless in the eyes of all and are replacable. Put those in place as Wanda and longer tenure as the top union bosses, the lower union employee such as Ossomer seen as expendable if they don't conform and are not trusted and lastly the Royals who are getting discarded by the new Titanic mandate and more importantly by Fate.

[CelebrenIthil]

The turnamancer couldn't turn Ansom, but that only means that either the decrypted are unable to voluntarily switch sides or they are imunne to mind-affecting spells.

No no. The Turnamancer hasn't yet tried to turn Ansom, because she's still out of juice from the Kingworld spell.

I thought she tried already.

I also understood from what we saw in the comic that she attempted to turn him with the little juice she had left and failed. But as far as we know Turnamancy can be like Croakamancy: the more juice one uses in the latter, the better and long-lasting the uncroaked units will be. Similarly, maybe she can perform a stronger/more reliable turning attempt if she expends more juice.
Also in possibilities not factoring Ansom's Decrypted state: maybe there is a factor of distance (could you imagine a Turnamancer being able to turn a foe at extreme distances? I believe they'd at least need to be in a certain range...), and disruptive/repelling effects when say, trying to turn a target that is stacked amongst allies and receiving bonuses. Maybe being in the "captured" state lowers an unit's passive defenses against turning. Thus Ansom wasn't turned when he sat on his Spidew amongst his troops at a distance, but could be turned now he's neck-deep in gwiffon.
We'll see...

Is it just me or the casters crowding around King Slately on the image almost seem posed like they might be equipping him with the jetpack?
I'm straining my eyes but I can't tell anything for sure.... Hmm...

I wonder if part of the predatory glint in the King's eyes when he looked at Ossomer might be partly due to the fact he is sitting on a Flying magic item which, if.... "confiscated", could allow one more important person to fly away from the imminent mess that's gonna be the Jenga tower in a short while...

No... I think the king is going in for the kill. He's on desperation tactic now. Don can't help him, but the bounty can. Kill ossamer, nuke as many archons as they can. If it's enough, declare Trem Heir.

Though realistically not sure if that can actually be done, unless charlie can transfer the schmuckers directly, seeing as how the portal is compromised. So perhaps my idea is unfeasible...

I wasn't implying that I believe his intentions are to kill Ossomer, nor to flee, but rather remarked that for one observant person that'd might want to keep their options open, there is a very fine magic item that would allow someone to have an emergency flying mount with no allegiance issues, right under their nose....
I wonder if King Slately paid heed to that detail.

[mindsword]

I see Ossomer as an honorable man on the wrong side.

"Being Royal did mean something, after all. It meant taking the mantle of responsibility for the power the Titans had granted you. Ossomer had stood up all his life, straight as a marble column, to bear the weight of that responsibility. He knew that stance when he saw it, and Father carried himself that way now.
And he, slinking in the saddle after betraying a parley, no longer did. He'd had no answer for Tramennis' outrage, because he felt it too. He was shamed."

At the bridge he wondered out loud if Royalty is obsolete. It might still be obsolete, but he's seeing that its definently not meaningless.
Honor is not smart. It makes no sense. But people still hold themselves to it. I feel Ossomer thinks he cannot continue to serve his new side because of his honor and their lack there of.

"Below, Lady Sylvia was stacking with the forward purples. He imagined she planned to tumble all units in a shower of rubble, without thought for the protocols of Royal capture and execution, for bestowing dignity and honor upon a fallen enemy king in their final moments. Let soldiers and Commanders and Kings all fall together into a pile.
Had the Titans no use for such distinctions, in the Age of Hamster? No, surely they must.
Surely the new mantle of Titanic power must be carried with even greater majesty. In some important way, the disciples of Lady Firebaugh and the Arkenpliers were failing their Duty, and would pay the price."

I don't see this as a him producing a justification for the Titan's will due to one act. I see it as doubts that they are truly doing the Titan's will. Best analogy I can think of quick is this: A prophet of a God of love preaches to the people, saying that it is right and just for all men to kill the people on the other side of the river because they are demons. A follower of the prophet thinks, "I have traded with the people across the river. they are not demons. Is this truly God's will? surely my leader will be punished by God for killing innocents as well as the demons over there. Surely there must be a better way" (really tired right now. I'll find a better analogy later or something). I think he sees his death as a punishment to his leaders for failing the Titan's will. Thus he's willing to do it if the Titan's demand it.

[Smoker]

flt is right, in my opinion: Ossomer's duty is rock bottom.

See, nowhere in the update did Ossomer consider allowing himself to be captured - I fully expect Meatloaf McBeefcake there to fight with everything he's got when/if Jetstone enters the airspace.

Consider:

If he allowed that to happen.

Of course, he could not.

But if the Titans allowed that to happen, it surely would Signify something.

And so Ossomer is going to make a stand, and just as he said at expository bridge, he will make the Titans prove their claim.

I think the problem here is that Ossomer believes the whole Royalty thing on a much deeper level than Ansom. Ansom used it as justification for his snobbery, and promptly forgot all about it when he had a newer, better ideal to cling to.

Ossomer, on the other hand, still thinks the Royals are worth something. Even if they are not the recipients of the Titanic Mandate, Muscles McSpandex still thinks they deserve proper respect. It's almost like he needs a little more convincing of the finer points of his new religion, so he stands alone, giving the Titans a good chance to bump him off, if he is indeed not doing their will.

And seriously, is it such a crazy idea? He's already been the subject of one miracle (re-popping), so it shouldn't be unreasonable that the Titans would smile on a single encounter. Plus, like Ossomer said, he could croak Slately with a well aimed fart, so its not as if he's asking for a turn of immortality or anything, just favour.

So to me, its clear that Ossomer's loyalty is still high, since he's risking his life to prove his religion. If he was just sitting there with the hope of being captured and not croaked, then why not just turn?

[Slowness]

Maybe Slately wants to steal Ossomer's carpet, so he and Tremennous can both survive by flying?

[Smoker]

Maybe Slately wants to steal Ossomer's carpet, so he and Tremennous can both survive by flying?

I see it now! A nice Aladdin scene, with Tramennis holding Slately tight while they fly out over the city, Tramennis singing "I can show you the world.. shining shimmering splendid.." which are probably the names of some of his brothers.

[Scott Frantz]

You know, Ossomer might have a point.

It's hard to define what Toolism is, but in the broadest strokes, it's the belief that those attuned to the Arkentools have been given a Titanic mandate to lead, superceding the Royal mandate. But how far does it supercede? After all, the Royals did, seemingly, have a mandate from the Titans. For whatever reason, the Titans thought it was important that such concepts as honor, and responsibility, were guiding principles for rulers of Erfworld. Does Toolism necessarily mean that the Titans intentions with Royalty are utterly disregarded? That seems incorrect to me. To truly claim you're a tool of the Titans, you must respect all their intentions - the oldworld decorum and noblese of Royalty, and the new reality of the Arkentools' attunement.

[Ominous]

Having read the books that GoT is based on, I'm simply going to state that you have chosen a really bad example to demonstrate the point you're trying to prove.

I didn't mention the books. We're all adults here, we can see clearly the distinction between strongly developed characters and moral boundaries. In the TV show we have clear white hats and black hats. Or is murdering children too greyscale?

No, you didn't mention the books, but the show is following the books almost to the letter, so one can easily extrapolate that what happened in the later books will happen on the show eventually. Everything in the Song of Ice and Fire universe is greyscale. That's what's great about the series. There are no "objectively" good people fighting against "objectively" bad people. It's just people with all their saintly actions and horrific shortcomings in a universe of subjective morality. Yes, Jaime does some awful things, but he also has some very human and very good qualities. Just as Ned Stark and Jon Snow have some very ugly qualities. Cersei, though, is just a paranoid nutter. Then again, what Jaime did was not necessarily evil in the mindset of the setting. He is protecting House Lannister, his sister, and his nieces and nephews. Loyalty to one's house and protecting the good name of your sister would be considered a very honorable thing to do. All things considered, what Jaime did pales in comparison to some of the things that happen later in the series.

I dunno, were they like demon spawn consuming the souls of everyone they met or something?

Also what in the where? Not all of us see HBO. Sadly.

No, just an unfortunate ten year old who saw too much. "A Game of Thrones" is a new series for HBO showing at 9 pm Eastern on Sunday nights. It's based very closely on George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to lurking.

[danelsan]

Well, it is past 5 AM here, so I may not be thinking clearly, but let me see if I got the timeline correctly: Is this update giving us Ossomer's view of the events around the time of Text Update 41? Gah, I really should go to bed if I can't even make that distinction XD. See ya later ^_^

[Undead Prince]

I have a gut feeling Slately's not going to survive this battle, but Tramennis will, and Jetstone will not be destroyed as a side, although the capital may surely fall.

The excellent catch earlier that the Jets may be after Charlie's bounties to designate Tram as heir is certainly a viable way to go. However, consider this:

1. If Slately himself attacks Ossomer using the Jetpack, he's unlikely to win (Oss "can kill him with a kick to the knee");
2. If Jets have the option of shooting down Oss with arrows and|or spells, why bother with the jetpack?
3. If the Jetpack bearer is killed in the airspace, he will fall down; where Sylvia is mounting her siege; thereby effectively giving the Jetpack to the enemy.
4. However, Tram is also below with his heavy knights, and he might be the one to get the fallen Jetpack.

I had some sort of idea that Slately might want to make a suicide run at Ossomer, sacrificing his life in order to a) get the bounty, b) deliver the Jetpack to Tram via the falling mechanic so recently exploited by Hamster.

This looks like it has the potential to become a quite elegant and thrilling solution, with the proper writing.

P.S. I'll add my voice to the admirers of Wanda and her "tools". Wanda's 100% my favourite character in this comic, she's got this combination of qualities that just really gets to me. I only wish she would receive more attention, as the author seems to have shifted his focus to secondary and even tertiary characters - of which, Sylvia is by far the preferred one for me. So the Toolist side wins hands down metaphorically speaking, as in game terms they are certainly heading towards an eventual disastrous end.

[Undead Prince]

Everything in the Song of Ice and Fire universe is greyscale. That's what's great about the series. There are no "objectively" good people fighting against "objectively" bad people.

I believe there are plenty of "objectively bad people" in SoIF. Take, for instance, Roose and Ramsay Boltons, or the Brave Companions, or Gregor Clegane. But those are only the "total horrible monster" examples; whereas most of the characters outside the Stark family are "objectively bad".

It's just people with all their saintly actions and horrific shortcomings in a universe of subjective morality. Yes, Jaime does some awful things, but he also has some very human and very good qualities.

This doesn't mean he's "moral" from any "subjective" point of view. He's got good qualities, and very bad ones; that's it. After his "experience" with the Brave Companions he's been shifting more towards the "good" side, but nothing he's done yet redeems his cold-blooded attempt to murder the Stark boy. And nothing really says he wouldn't do something like that again, given proper circumstances. In my book, this makes him "objectively bad". Which doesn't stop him from being one of my favourite characters (but then again, so is Ramsay Bolton and a few other unsavoury types, I've got a soft spot for evil).

Just as Ned Stark and Jon Snow have some very ugly qualities.

Really can't think of any particularly ugly qualities for those two. Apart from Jon being played by a butt-ugly homo boy in the HBO series.

Cersei, though, is just a paranoid nutter.

Naah, she just has a hard life. And her "paranoia" seemed well-founded, considering what happens to her.

"A Game of Thrones" is a new series for HBO showing at 9 pm Eastern on Sunday nights. It's based very closely on George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series.

And judging from the first two episodes, it's very good. If you're willing to get over the horrendous casting for Jon Snow and the fact that the terrible direwolves are played by medium-sized friendly dogs.

[mortissimus]

He may still be heir without turning - it's canon that it's possible. I'm still betting that as Slately dies and he he inherits, the reaction to becoming king will break Wandas control.
[/u]

If Oss turns, like really truly turns and changes sides, then Jetstone has their Heir back, right?

Where is it stated?

No... I think the king is going in for the kill. He's on desperation tactic now. Don can't help him, but the bounty can. Kill ossamer, nuke as many archons as they can. If it's enough, declare Trem Heir.

They don't even have to kill a whole bunch of archons. They just have to capture one, and with the archons all spread out, that seems like the best chance.

I got the impression that even without leadership 27 archons would still kick jetstone's airforce to titans come.

I think the plan is capture, not kiill, Ossomer.

And with Ossomer being an inch from turning of himself I think the question is if an Ossomer led jetforce could beat the Archons.

[Scott Frantz]

P.S. I'll add my voice to the admirers of Wanda and her "tools". Wanda's 100% my favourite character in this comic, she's got this combination of qualities that just really gets to me. I only wish she would receive more attention, as the author seems to have shifted his focus to secondary and even tertiary characters

If you're counting the text updates, then of course it's gonna feel that way - though we sometimes get a look into the main characters' heads, its usually fleshing out side characters. In the comic proper, it's pretty much stayed focused on the main characters.

[Sieggy]

However, there are a few spanners flying towards the clockwork even as we speak . . .Trem is headed upstairs with troops to forcibly remove Slately from danger, Sylvia is completing the stacking necessary to begin the attack, and gawd only knows what effect Parson's arrival will have on the situation. Also, right now, the casters are the only offensive forces on the Tower - the archers are out of arrows and are contemplating the inevitable fate of those wearing red shirts . . .

Everything is coming to a head, and I suspect this will wind up becoming one of those classic comedies of errors where NOTHING anyone does turns out like they expected. I can see Slately starting to make the moves that will redeem him in the eyes of the Titans just as Trem bursts in and drags him off kicking and screaming while the casters stand there stunned.

As for Ossomer, I think Wanda's initial assessment of him is confirmed - a side of beef, and almost as smart. So far, he's done nothing during the entire battle but sit there on the carpet like a lump. For a warlord, he's really pretty pathetic, but I suppose that's his job, story-wise. Amusing that the Great and Powerful Ossomer turns out to be useless to either side while sissy, weak (hah!) Tramennis turns out to be surprisingly capable.

[BLANDCorporatio]

flt is right, in my opinion: Ossomer's duty is rock bottom.

See, nowhere in the update did Ossomer consider allowing himself to be captured - I fully expect Meatloaf McBeefcake there to fight with everything he's got when/if Jetstone enters the airspace.

That's the beauty of it. You can read it another way, as in Ossomer not daring to want capture/death, but wanting it anyway, twisting his mind in a complex bind to get around loyalty/duty issues. Now, granted, Ossomer does not think it explicitly, but rarely do defense mechanisms in someone's psyche allow conscious appraisal of what is denied/hidden/transformed into something else. So as far as I'm concerned, this update was a nicely put together psychological study.

Will Ossomer fight? Probably yeah, but only as much as he needs to save face with himself. After all, he's not exactly acting cautiously right now.

However, consider this: {snip: options on how the Jetpack will be used)

Minor nitpick, but Slately does not need the fall mechanic, per se, to deliver the Jetpack to Trem, seeing as how it's Jetstone's turn and they can move as they like in their own city anyway. Then, there's also the unipegtaur relay as a possible option for Trem to get out. But yeah, that jetpack must be used somehow eventually, it's just too shiny sitting there on the mantlepiece not to.

P.S. I'll add my voice to the admirers of Wanda and her "tools". Wanda's 100% my favourite character in this comic, she's got this combination of qualities that just really gets to me. I only wish she would receive more attention, as the author seems to have shifted his focus to secondary and even tertiary characters - of which, Sylvia is by far the preferred one for me. So the Toolist side wins hands down metaphorically speaking, as in game terms they are certainly heading towards an eventual disastrous end.

Eh, maybe part of that shift of focus is a result of the text updates being very meaty in their treatment of one character's point of view, whereas the comic updates tend to be more dispersed, for one, and just of lower info content since they can only move the story a little, or can reveal not that much, in the available panels.

I'm not sure on the disastrous end for the Toolist side. Of course, Sylvia is forever stuck with a bullseye on her (and that combined with her can-do attitude makes her my favourite background char here), and Wanda will likely get some comeuppance from Jillian at some point, but the toolist side as a whole ... not sure.