Book 2 – Text Updates 048

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby holy_dwead » Fri May 13, 2011 12:48 pm

Brilliant narrative control demonstrated in the conversation of Slately and his casters. Two weeks ago we got a glimpse of this conversation from Ossomer's perspective. Rob fed us just the right amount of crumbs. I've set the parts that Ossomer heard in #47 in red.

"There is a chance!" shouted Ace, pounding his fist into his palm. "And it's at least worth considering, Pierce!" He turned to Slately, "Highness, this is what I'm thinking. We work on our own target of choice."

"Yeah, he wants to hit your son first," interrupted Pierce, "But I'm saying, even supposing that works, we're still outnumbered up there. We just don't have the flyers for a fight like that."

Slately's eyes darted between the two men, who were arguing with one another more than they were addressing him. The Dollamancer pointed at the Dittomancer.

"Lloyd could double the Unipegs if he flew with the max stack!"

The Dittomancer nodded, looking agitated. "Yeah, that's true. That is true."

"Yeah and what are we going to do for leadership, come on," said Pierce. He stared at Ace for a long moment, but Ace had no immediate answer. "And without decent leadership, you're really so eager to fly against Ossomer? I think you're about fourteen crates full of mixed nuts." Pierce took a sip of his healing elixir, from a glass which always seemed half-full.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Hatu » Fri May 13, 2011 1:09 pm

Nice update. It's good to see Slately trying to rise to the occasion. I hope he'll be able to live up to the buildup.

-H
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby CaptC » Fri May 13, 2011 1:22 pm

goodmorning wrote:Well done guys! I think someone can officially claim calling the doubling Unipegataurs and hitting the archons. Now its just a question of what hardware Ace can produce in the space of 30 seconds and how effective they will be.


Claimed. But I didn't foresee Trammenis's little "accident".

Ossomer is going to get croaked, or turn. If he turns, what would an effective 18 bonus swing do to the air battle?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Sygerrik » Fri May 13, 2011 1:39 pm

I doubt Ossomer will turn, but I also doubt he'll make it through this turn alive. He's toast.
Also, if there was any doubt that Ace is the coolest Jetstone character, it is gone now. He's the man. If only a caster could be heir.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby abb3w » Fri May 13, 2011 1:44 pm

Zeku wrote:To those making comments about royalty as an abstract concept, I'm wondering if you understand the need for noble men in positions of great power.


The question is the degree to which it is founded in nature versus nurture, in Dominance versus Prestige, and in submission-to-Dominance versus deference-to-Prestige. You might care to look at some of the scholarly papers by Joseph Henrich about those distinctions. Or perhaps spend some time thinking about the Riddle of Varys from GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire.
:geek:

I'd also question the choice of the word "need" in that characterization. Need implies a purpose, and an ordering of choices; which gets back to the question of Hume's is-ought problem that I've digressed toward previously.
:ugeek:
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby CaptC » Fri May 13, 2011 1:49 pm

abb3w wrote:
Zeku wrote:To those making comments about royalty as an abstract concept, I'm wondering if you understand the need for noble men in positions of great power.


The question is the degree to which it is founded in nature versus nurture, in Dominance versus Prestige, and in submission-to-Dominance versus deference-to-Prestige. You might care to look at some of the scholarly papers by Joseph Henrich about those distinctions. Or perhaps spend some time thinking about the Riddle of Varys from GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire.
:geek:

I'd also question the choice of the word "need" in that characterization. Need implies a purpose, and an ordering of choices; which gets back to the question of Hume's is-ought problem that I've digressed toward previously.
:ugeek:


Bah and fiddlesticks.

This is a GAME. Royalty gets higher stats. No more justification is needed.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby DevilDan » Fri May 13, 2011 2:26 pm

I simply love this update. It builds up the tension so well. Poor Don, it did cost him to try to help out Slately.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby gameboy1234 » Fri May 13, 2011 2:29 pm

CaptC wrote:This is a GAME. Royalty gets higher stats. No more justification is needed.



No, Erfworld is not a game. Rob has said so repeatedly. However, I'll grant you that Erfworld is very game-like. Thus I agree that no further explanation is needed. Royalty gets higher stats because Erfworld says so.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri May 13, 2011 2:36 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
CaptC wrote:This is a GAME. Royalty gets higher stats. No more justification is needed.



No, Erfworld is not a game. Rob has said so repeatedly. However, I'll grant you that Erfworld is very game-like. Thus I agree that no further explanation is needed. Royalty gets higher stats because Erfworld says so.


Then wouldn't you agree that debating whether Erfworld is a game or not is kind of a nitpick and inconsequential to CaptC's point, which is "In Erfworld <for whatever reason> the laws of physics provide Royal units with intrinsic advantages. Therefore, Royals are better. Therefore, suck it, peasants."

abb3w wrote:
Zeku wrote:To those making comments about royalty as an abstract concept, I'm wondering if you understand the need for noble men in positions of great power.


The question is the degree to which it is founded in nature versus nurture, in Dominance versus Prestige, and in submission-to-Dominance versus deference-to-Prestige. You might care to look at some of the scholarly papers by Joseph Henrich about those distinctions. Or perhaps spend some time thinking about the Riddle of Varys from GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire.
:geek:

I'd also question the choice of the word "need" in that characterization. Need implies a purpose, and an ordering of choices; which gets back to the question of Hume's is-ought problem that I've digressed toward previously.
:ugeek:


Or to put it all more concisely, there will be a power hierarchy in any group, and leadership is a skill (and like all skills, unequally distributed). The "need" in question is related to a kinda obvious (and kinda not) bridge from is to ought, meaning you'd better hope your leaders (or you, if you're that person) are competent to lead, as a basic minimum ground for expecting performance (coordination, management of tensions in the group, decisiveness etc).

Of course, it's not like we can see people's leadership stat, even with goggles*. Also, it's mightily convenient to draw broad generalisations like "such and such group is not fit to lead". Y'all know the kind.


*: though I remain convinced that should a group of total strangers find themselves stranded on an island, it would be clear by a day is over who assumed leadership.

Vorteks wrote:As someone who is currently holding Issue 1 of Book 2 in his hands, I can assure you - the text updates ARE in the book. They appear on their own page side-by-side with the comic pages, in the same order they were published. The text is 2 columns. Many of them have the artwork in the middle and the text flows around it. It's very nice.


:oops: Now I feel like that poster p[ointing out there is no page 159. Well, text updates in the books- splendid news!
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby atalex » Fri May 13, 2011 3:33 pm

Is it just my imagination or does Slately actually look slightly taller in the update picture? Maybe signomancy actually works that fast.:)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Sixty » Fri May 13, 2011 4:01 pm

drachefly wrote:A nice addition to the pile.

It does make me wonder, what's the shortest stretch of time in a webcomic that's been stretched out over a period of real time as long as this has?


I know the old webcomic Adventurers had the final showdown with the villain go on for almost as long as the rest of the webcomic combined. I always contrast it with RPG World. Both were based on parodying JRPGs but the creator of RPG World got burned out on it and pushed himself to even reach the final confrontation (which wasn't finished) while the creator of Adventurers got to the final battle, seemed to realize the comic would be over if he had the heroes win and thus made it go on for literally hundreds of comics.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby dmorenus » Fri May 13, 2011 4:06 pm

I think Parson's going to run into trouble this battle because he can't effectively coordinate the actions of his air and ground units--because he left the GK command center and its Thinkamancer and put himself in the front lines. I suspect he won't have nearly as timely knowledge of Ossomer's imminent demise now that he's not standing next to Maggie, and won't be able to react as effectively. My guess is that the next promise he makes to himself is to run battles from the capital from now on.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby gaiaswill » Fri May 13, 2011 4:26 pm

dmorenus wrote:My guess is that the next promise he makes to himself is to run battles from the capital from now on.


Or to take Maggie with him next time. That way, she can level too. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby ftl » Fri May 13, 2011 4:29 pm

[

Or to put it all more concisely, there will be a power hierarchy in any group, and leadership is a skill (and like all skills, unequally distributed). The "need" in question is related to a kinda obvious (and kinda not) bridge from is to ought, meaning you'd better hope your leaders (or you, if you're that person) are competent to lead, as a basic minimum ground for expecting performance (coordination, management of tensions in the group, decisiveness etc).


"royalty" tends to mean more than just "a leadership position" - it means a leadership position which is inherited by birth. I wouldn't argue that groups need leaders, but I am not at all convinced that said leadership needs to be hereditary.

In Erfworld, it makes sense because they get better stats.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby ftl » Fri May 13, 2011 4:30 pm

dmorenus wrote: My guess is that the next promise he makes to himself is to run battles from the capital from now on.


I really doubt that, for story reasons. For an exciting story, it makes more sense for Parson to be in the thick of things. It's a lot less exciting if Parson is just moving pieces on a chessboard while the action takes place far away.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Atomic » Fri May 13, 2011 4:39 pm

ftl wrote:
dmorenus wrote: My guess is that the next promise he makes to himself is to run battles from the capital from now on.


I really doubt that, for story reasons. For an exciting story, it makes more sense for Parson to be in the thick of things. It's a lot less exciting if Parson is just moving pieces on a chessboard while the action takes place far away.

Ender's Game?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Jorgath » Fri May 13, 2011 4:50 pm

Atomic wrote:
ftl wrote:
dmorenus wrote: My guess is that the next promise he makes to himself is to run battles from the capital from now on.


I really doubt that, for story reasons. For an exciting story, it makes more sense for Parson to be in the thick of things. It's a lot less exciting if Parson is just moving pieces on a chessboard while the action takes place far away.

Ender's Game?


Even in Ender's Game, you got a sense of action.

Spoiler: show
Ender was running battles via what was essentially a video arcade game, true, but the dialogue was real-time between him and his fellow child-commanders...and more importantly, it kept being tied back to the Battle Room battles from earlier in the book, where Ender was in the thick of the action. The enemy's gate is down.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby joosy » Fri May 13, 2011 4:52 pm

dmorenus wrote:I think Parson's going to run into trouble this battle because he can't effectively coordinate the actions of his air and ground units--because he left the GK command center and its Thinkamancer and put himself in the front lines. I suspect he won't have nearly as timely knowledge of Ossomer's imminent demise now that he's not standing next to Maggie, and won't be able to react as effectively. My guess is that the next promise he makes to himself is to run battles from the capital from now on.


I predict that Parson will catch on to the more subtle effects of commanding and put them to his advantage. In the MK, Isaac has built proxy mounts to study such things but Parson will surpass his findings there quickly. Also, the unspoken reaches of natural Thinkamancy (sending unspoken opinions, feelings, intuition etc) may also one his next breakthroughts. Parson may end up being able to just stand there and receive and send real-time info to his units without speaking a word and be more efficient than any other commander in Erfworld history.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Berserkas » Fri May 13, 2011 4:57 pm

CaptC wrote:Bah and fiddlesticks.

This is a GAME. Royalty gets higher stats. No more justification is needed.


For all their stats, Parson is kicking their asses.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri May 13, 2011 4:59 pm

skarl wrote:
Renion wrote:
skarl wrote:nice update! sitting in school, having an 'hour without classes' (google translate gives no translations for 'tussenuur'. ),and cheking if the new update is onine: and IT IS!

now, we finally know the jetstone battle plan.


"Recess", "free period", "break period", or "free time" all work.

Although recess has a childlike connotation because the term is often used in K-6 education (5 to 12 year olds). The other common use for recess is in reference to courtrooms.


not really, for in a 'tussenuur' YOU don't have classes, but most OTHERS have. even people from your own year who have chosen other subjects most of the time have classes. I don't know if this actually exists in other countries, or if the schedulers are more competent in other countries.


Free Period works for that. Also in the US some high schools and Jr highs have what is called "Home Room" or "Study Hall" which is a period where you must be in a specific room but there is no class. You're supposed to use the time for study or homework.
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