Book 2 – Text Updates 048

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Fri May 13, 2011 6:09 pm

Regarding Slately's chances vs. Ossomer: they don't need to dust or incapacitate Ossomer, just knock him off the carpet. Recall that we've already seen Ossomer's Ace-made bracer knock Ansom off the carpet. Others who have succeeded in dismounting Ansom (level 10) from the carpet: Bogroll ("Combat 5"), uncroaked Webinar (level 5 when alive, led by Wanda).

Given his fatalistic positioning, Ossomer could be knocked down to the atrium with a ranged accessory before Slately even leaves the tower.

As for knocking Slately down, Ossomer's bracer might not recharge until GK's next turn, and they may give Slately the jetpack to protect him from dismounting in general.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Atomic » Fri May 13, 2011 6:12 pm

Jorgath wrote:
Atomic wrote:
ftl wrote:I really doubt that, for story reasons. For an exciting story, it makes more sense for Parson to be in the thick of things. It's a lot less exciting if Parson is just moving pieces on a chessboard while the action takes place far away.

Ender's Game?


Even in Ender's Game, you got a sense of action.

Spoiler: show
Ender was running battles via what was essentially a video arcade game, true, but the dialogue was real-time between him and his fellow child-commanders...and more importantly, it kept being tied back to the Battle Room battles from earlier in the book, where Ender was in the thick of the action. The enemy's gate is down.

I think you took what I was saying the wrong way... Story-wise, it'd be a step backwards in character-development for Parson to retreat to the safety of Gobwin Knob. I was making a remark that, just because a character isn't in the thick of things, it doesn't mean there won't be excitement in the story.

I wasn't trying to insinuate there wasn't any action in the book...it's one of my favorite sci-fi novels of all time. It's a, sadly, common misconception that because a character isn't on the front lines, that character/the characters in the story aren't participating in any of the action. My point for posting was to say that, although I hope it doesn't happen, Parson becoming a front-lines Warlord like Ansom isn't a requirement for being a Chief Warlord.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby hidufel » Fri May 13, 2011 6:36 pm

This just occured to me... the casters there atop the tower dont know that ossomer isnt the chief warlord, right? the pacing of these events sure makes it seem that parsons arrival providing his chief warlord bonus in the hex might be quite a surprise for them, especially if theyve already commited to an attack and then suddenly, WHUMP, chief warlord bonus shows up!
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby ftl » Fri May 13, 2011 6:49 pm

The casters might not, but Slately does, Tramennis found that much out from Charlie.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Sylvan » Fri May 13, 2011 7:26 pm

hidufel wrote:This just occured to me... the casters there atop the tower dont know that ossomer isnt the chief warlord, right? the pacing of these events sure makes it seem that parsons arrival providing his chief warlord bonus in the hex might be quite a surprise for them, especially if theyve already commited to an attack and then suddenly, WHUMP, chief warlord bonus shows up!


Oooh, really good call. Even if Slately/Tram knew GK's CW isn't in the hex, they'll still be surprised when all the archons get extra leadership. Could be exactly what is needed to turn a close battle.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby heyduck » Fri May 13, 2011 9:22 pm

I just realized that Slately's royal crown was probably made by Cubbins and Don King's crown maybe a gift from Slately to Don so that they could exchange items and possibly messages; it took me awhile trying to understand why he had his crown on his lap waiting for the gem. I wonder what else hat magicians can do :?: Sorry if this has already been speculated but I just thought it was neat.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby quixotecoyote » Fri May 13, 2011 10:24 pm

I'm going to be disappointed if Slately escapes and Tramennis doesn't. The former just isn't as interesting as the latter.

I'd be intrigued to see Tramennis fall back to Jetstone and try to figure out Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby DoctorJest » Fri May 13, 2011 10:50 pm

Sylvan wrote:Looks like the bounties are not just for Charlescomm store credit.......


Already established here:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -09-15.jpg

Charley states explicitly that if Jetstone collects the full bounty, it would be enough to designate an Heir.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby joosy » Fri May 13, 2011 10:51 pm

Sylvan wrote:
hidufel wrote:This just occured to me... the casters there atop the tower dont know that ossomer isnt the chief warlord, right? the pacing of these events sure makes it seem that parsons arrival providing his chief warlord bonus in the hex might be quite a surprise for them, especially if theyve already commited to an attack and then suddenly, WHUMP, chief warlord bonus shows up!


Oooh, really good call. Even if Slately/Tram knew GK's CW isn't in the hex, they'll still be surprised when all the archons get extra leadership. Could be exactly what is needed to turn a close battle.


Close, but the bonus only increases on units in the same hex. Extra bonus for those in his own stack.
Currently Ossomer and the archons are NOT considered to be in the same hex until Gobwin Knob takes the garrison and thus controls the city.
Also, Parson is only a level 2 so his bonus won't be that much.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Jorgath » Fri May 13, 2011 11:12 pm

Atomic wrote:I think you took what I was saying the wrong way... Story-wise, it'd be a step backwards in character-development for Parson to retreat to the safety of Gobwin Knob. I was making a remark that, just because a character isn't in the thick of things, it doesn't mean there won't be excitement in the story.

I wasn't trying to insinuate there wasn't any action in the book...it's one of my favorite sci-fi novels of all time. It's a, sadly, common misconception that because a character isn't on the front lines, that character/the characters in the story aren't participating in any of the action. My point for posting was to say that, although I hope it doesn't happen, Parson becoming a front-lines Warlord like Ansom isn't a requirement for being a Chief Warlord.


A little bit the wrong way. But not entirely. I was trying to say that while Ender's Game-style action without being on the front lines does work, I don't think it would work for Parson.

To expand on that, I mostly think it's a lot easier to get away with in a text-only novel than in a comic. There's only so many drawings of people standing around a map table you can make and keep it interesting.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby abb3w » Fri May 13, 2011 11:36 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Or to put it all more concisely, there will be a power hierarchy in any group, and leadership is a skill (and like all skills, unequally distributed). The "need" in question is related to a kinda obvious (and kinda not) bridge from is to ought, meaning you'd better hope your leaders (or you, if you're that person) are competent to lead, as a basic minimum ground for expecting performance (coordination, management of tensions in the group, decisiveness etc).

Or more exactly: if the side doesn't have a leader who tends to make choices that result in the side continuing to exist, the side tends to discontinue existing.

On the other hand, while I'd agree it's a bridge from is to ought, in so far as it produces an ordering preference on choices, whether such persistence is "good" is at least potentially debatable if you find an annoying enough philosopher; there's a small can of worms shaped like the Ship of Theseus hiding there; and that seems to slightly oversimplify matters by conflating power and leadership. But those are minor points.

More significant, it's only a tendency. For example, there's Stanley. :roll:

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Of course, it's not like we can see people's leadership stat, even with goggles*.

...mass producing those WOULD have interesting impact on RealWorld politics, wouldn't it?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby gameboy1234 » Fri May 13, 2011 11:55 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Then wouldn't you agree that debating whether Erfworld is a game or not is kind of a nitpick and inconsequential to CaptC's point



I don't think so, no, it's not picking at nits. Rob was pretty specific about that, and I think it going to be important plot-wise. I think it's going to be super-duper important, actually, so we all should keep in mind if we want to follow along and understand what's going on.

For example, what does the title of the second book, "Love is a Battlefield", got to do with anything? Here's a question: do you think any of the units in your RTS are in love? No, of course not. Yet plainly Erfworld units often are, and have emotions independent of what is expected of them rule-wise. They love, against all probability, and in spite of being trapped in a game-like world. I can't help but feel this is supremely significant.
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I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby abb3w » Sat May 14, 2011 9:05 am

Hm. What happens if Lloyd doubles Slately? Does that get around the problem by creating an instant heir?

Probably would take more than a little juice, if so; still, desperate times, desperate measures.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Jorgath » Sat May 14, 2011 9:30 am

abb3w wrote:Hm. What happens if Lloyd doubles Slately? Does that get around the problem by creating an instant heir?

Probably would take more than a little juice, if so; still, desperate times, desperate measures.


I doubt it's possible on his own. A duo-mancer link (Thinkamancer + Dittomancer) could maybe enhance the Dittomancer's power enough to do it. Maybe. More likely, Lloyd's effect on Slately is making him a Royal warlord with crappy stats doubled to something less crappy but still not great.
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how charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul."
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Beeskee » Sat May 14, 2011 9:37 am

drachefly wrote:A nice addition to the pile.

It does make me wonder, what's the shortest stretch of time in a webcomic that's been stretched out over a period of real time as long as this has?.


Freefall had one day in-comic spread out over a period of over a year of updates. It updates 3 times a week too. http://freefall.purrsia.com/
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Zeku » Sat May 14, 2011 9:54 am

The love referred to by the title is (probably) romantic, which means 'desire.' I know people who are afflicted with powerful emotional desires like to believe there's something holy about this kind of love, but I'm not convinced. Desire is predictable and consistent. It follows rules, like the rules of a game.

Remember that there are no children in Erfworld. I'm not arguing that the chemical or chronological attachment to progeny is 'love' either, nor am I saying that love doesn't exist. I'm just saying that you can't argue that the title 'Love is a battlefield' discredits the notion that Erf is a virtual world, or a game.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Raza » Sat May 14, 2011 10:47 am

Zeku wrote:To those making comments about royalty as an abstract concept, I'm wondering if you understand the need for noble men in positions of great power. I also wonder if you realize that royalty always exists, regardless of what it is actually called, and regardless of whether the royals in question are virtuous.

You're free to continue to feel strong emotions about things, or defend complacency, but I suggest you start doing some reading. This is as good a place to start as any:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond-Lippmann_consensus

Notice that my intention is not to prove anything, as that page neither proves nor demonstrates anything specific. I'm simply encouraging you to develop a broader perspective on the subject.

Sorry; anarchist here. Positions of great (or any) power are something to be avoided in any ethically structured society, AFAIC.

Not disagreeing that (to summarise AL's consensus) most people are grossly irrational, but it is neither possible nor moral to solve that with a hierarchical power structure. Noble and competent individuals will just have to improve the world from ground level - which is where the vast majority of them reside, anyway.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Zeku » Sat May 14, 2011 1:02 pm

Telling us what you personally believe is off topic unless you can tie it informatively and respectfully into something happening in the comic.

Offering your opinion about anything is an attempt to increase the exposure of your perspective. This is a very pure manifestation of power-mongering: the demagogue. Just as you have no love for upstart overlords, neither do we.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby Raza » Sat May 14, 2011 1:22 pm

Zeku wrote:Telling us what you personally believe is off topic unless you can tie it informatively and respectfully into something happening in the comic.

Offering your opinion about anything is an attempt to increase the exposure of your perspective. This is a very pure manifestation of power-mongering: the demagogue. Just as you have no love for upstart overlords, neither do we.

True-ish, but entirely hypocritical; this tangent had soundly left the subject of Erfworld with the post I responded to. No amount of gentle wording changes that "attempting to increase the exposure of your perspective" describes perfectly what you were doing - what you, in fact, stated in virtually those same words as your intention with its last sentence.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 048

Postby MarbitChow » Sat May 14, 2011 2:04 pm

Raza wrote:Sorry; anarchist here. Positions of great (or any) power are something to be avoided in any ethically structured society, AFAIC.

Not disagreeing that (to summarise AL's consensus) most people are grossly irrational, but it is neither possible nor moral to solve that with a hierarchical power structure. Noble and competent individuals will just have to improve the world from ground level - which is where the vast majority of them reside, anyway.

As with any solution, the Anarchist solution is elegant, simple, and wrong. Humans by nature organize themselves into a hierarchy. Hierarchies are required to accomplish any organizational task that is more complex than that which can be accomplished by a few individuals. The anarchist solution to the problem ignores basic human nature in much the same way as the vegan solution to world hunger does: it requires that 100% of the world will behave the way 1% wishes it would.
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