Book 2 – Page 61

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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby gameboy1234 » Tue May 17, 2011 10:27 am

Dr Pepper wrote:Definitely George Harrison- he runs just like in Yellow Submarine.

Don't forget about Issac, who looks like Carl Sagan but is named after Sir Issac Newton. The caster could look like George Harrison (I agree he totally does) but be Jeftichew.

Also: I agree Parson must be the target, but for who and what? Charlie and a net spell of some sort could be the most likely (a.k.a. Hold Person) but then how does Parson get to Charlescom? It doesn't seem like one caster could drag Parson there. Parson's a big guy!

Perhaps "detain" is the goal. Just prevent Parson from reaching Jetstone this turn. It's an easier thing to do, at least.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby splexis » Tue May 17, 2011 10:31 am

Smoker wrote:It might just be that Jeftichew was kicking around Portal Park when he happened to see Sizemore. Having an interest in Gobwin Knob, he lingered long enough to figure out that something was going to happen within the MK, and so took his position behind the Portal and waited.

Him being there doesn't require Charlie or the Great Minds to have fed him information.

And naturally, he just happens to want to scale the Cliffs of Insanity at midnight as a hobby…
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby badninja » Tue May 17, 2011 10:50 am

So that other caster is an agent of Charlie, damn it is Parson going to have a death scare?! Just what we need some drama that will keep us checking everyday for the next update. Rob I love this development, this is what keeps Erfworld so interesting to me and other people the ever changing battle. Great update one of my favorite of issue 2 in Book 2.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby ubersoft » Tue May 17, 2011 10:55 am

Hi! This is my first post. Been reading since the very beginning, though.

So as far as I know, there are a number of different factions:

Gobwin Knob - Parson is working for them

There are the enemies of the GK faction:

The Royal Coalition - Not many of these guys left. Mostly Transylvito at this point, though Tramenis and his father might manage to do something unexpected on that front.
Charley - He is described as anti-royal by the Royal Coalition but I don't think anyone really knows what he's truly after at this point.
The Blonde (can't remember her name!) - She's more interested in Ansom than anything else at this point.

Then there are allies of Parson -- not specifically allies of GK, but of what they think Parson is going to do for Erfworld:

There is some general Magic Kingdom group
There is also a Thinkamancer group that seems separate from the MK group, with their own purposes behind it. Maggie is a loyal GK subject due to the rules of erfworld but she also shares information with other Thinkamancers. And the Thinkamancers have decided they're going to see to Parson's safety.

I think the Thinkamancers are operating independently from the Magic Kingdom as a whole, and so far they haven't been represented past the "G String" story update (if I remember correctly). So I wonder if this guy is working for them. The Thinkamancers are backing Parson but not because they support GK. They have their own reasons, which are probably not the same reasons some others in the MK are supporting Parson.

Anyway, that's just my wild speculation. I'm looking forward to see how I'm proven wrong. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby SteveMB » Tue May 17, 2011 11:08 am

Masennus wrote:Janis comes across as incredibly stupid to me in this update.

"We want to help you! It is ok for Parson to use the MK as his personal transit service. No big!"
"Holy anus monkeys batman! He can't take a CASTER! Eldritch abominations using the MK as a staging ground changes nothing. A caster is the end of the world!"


If it is only Parson it is ok?

But for some reason taking a caster along is the end of the world as we know it?

Parson is a one of a kind. Casters aren't. Breaking whatever rules have prevented casters from using the MK as a military staging ground until now (whether it's something in the world's mechanics or tradition enforced by the Powers That Be in the MK) thus has a much bigger effect on the system as a whole.
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby Ambug666 » Tue May 17, 2011 11:14 am

It's a trap!

Look, Charlie already knew that Parson could enter the Magic Kingdom, so the last time Parson communicated with Charlie, Charlie planted a Suggestion that Parson would need to oversee the battle directly, and perhaps that he should use the MK to get there. Then he just had to have an agent waiting in Portal Park for the right time.

Sure there's some tree shaking there, but it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby wrecan » Tue May 17, 2011 11:25 am

I think Janis really didn't consider what Marie's vision really means. Janis thought Parson was going to make everything like MK -- happy, peaceful, serene. So when Parson is coming, she doesn't realize he's coming to make war; she thinks he's coming for wisdom, or to speak with a -mancer, or whatever else a hippie might think a savior is here for. She thinks Parson is going to come up with some wonderful magic spell that covers Erf in peace, love, joy and mutual respect

Marie doesn't believe that. Marie knows that Parson is here to break Erf, not to love it. And one of the things needing breaking is MK. While MK is peaceful, it is one of the institutions that allows the endless war to continue because it supplies mercenary casters to warring factions. MK's peaces comes at the cost of the deaths of millions of other units.

I think Janis' reaction and her ignorance makes perfect sense. She's thinking like a hippymancer and has a hippymancer's prejudices. Marie isn't thinking. She knows what Parson will do. But the ends justify the means as far as she is concerned.

I am curious about Jeftichew's plan. I agree he is either working alone and/or with Charlie. We don't have enough info to know how Jeftichew knew Parson was coming. Maybe Charlie told him. Maybe there's a leak from the Great Minds. Maybe he knows a Predictamancer, or has some talent in that field. I agree his target must be Parson, not Wanda. He could have loaned himself out to Slately if he wanted a shot at Wanda. Maybe he wants to do what he's going to do to Parson in private, so the tunnel gives him good cover. Maybe it's an assassination. Maybe it's a different spell (a curse).

Here's my epileptic twee of the day
Spoiler: show
Charlie wants Parson. He couldn't recruit Parson before because, Charlie surmises, Parson has a Loyalty to GK. So here's the plan: Charlie wants to turn Parson. Here's how. First, Parson is stuck in GK. He needs to get him out of GK and the only way to do that is to get Parson appointed CWL again. So he allies with Jillian. She, as a Royal, can make contact with the Unaroyal barbarian casters: Bowie (Changemancy), Jeftichew (carnymancy) and Vanna (turnamancy). He knows he'll need something dramatic to stop Wanda and Ansom. So he devises the Kingworld spell, and with it, he assumes Jetstone and Jillian will destroy Wanda and Ansom. Stanley will have to appoint Parson CWL again. Parson will have to go out into the field to rally GK's forces, and that's when Charlie can turn him.

But things don't go quite as planned. First, Jillian doesn't croak Wanda. Okay, not a big deal, because Kingworld still worked and GK is in bad shape. But she's not trying to croak Ansom either, and that's more important to the plan because Parson won't be appointed CWL while Ansom is in the field. He manipulates Sammy to kill Ansom for him, but that fails. Then Jillian abducts Ansom, and that turns out to be just as good for Charlie's purposes. As expected, Parson becomes CWL. Now it's just a question of when Parson will leave GK. This is when Charlie gets really desperate and emotional. Jillian has left the field. Charlie knows Parson, with Maggie, can command the battle from GK. Charlie's pretty sure Parson can pull something out of his sleeve to turn this around. Tramennis, the current CWL for Jetstone, completely underestimates GK's power. If GK wins this, Parson may never leave. He begs Tramennis to croak the GK forces immediately. Tramennis refuses and parleys. (And we saw what a disastrous decision that was.) At this point, Charlie has to be beside himself. All his plans, lots of money, all may have been for naught.

Then, the plan is saved by Parson himself. Even though Parson could win from GK, he chooses to go to Jetstone through MK for personal reasons, not strategic ones. Charlie intercepts Maggie's encrypted message and easily decodes it. He knows Parson is heading to Jetstone through the MK. Good thing he has a back-up plan. He knew putting Vanna in the field was dangerous, so he had her make Turnamancy scrolls for Jeftichew and Bowie. That way, if Vanna were to croak before Parson left GK, he could still turn him. When Charlie finds out Parson is entering MK, he contacts Jeftichew and Bowie. Jeftichew is closer to Portal Park. He gets in position. Now, Jeftichew is going to use the scroll on Parson. Not to kill him, but to Turn him.

One final wrinkle: Jeftichew made an oath to Unaroyal to only support royal sides. He is not going to turn Parson from one non-Royal side (GK) to another (Charlescomm), but since it will hurt GK to lose a warlord (and help the royal side of Jetstone), he is willing to remove Parson from GK. So the scroll Jeftichew has will Turn Parson into a barbarian with Loyalty and Duty to nobody. Now Parson has true free will. He can choose to abandon GK. He can choose to work for a Royal. He can choose to work for Charlescomm (and Charlie assumes a rational warlord like Parson -- who has an enormous upkeep that will be difficult to maintain without support -- will of course choose to work for him). But what will Parson choose to do?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby Grunthos » Tue May 17, 2011 11:54 am

The caster could look like George Harrison (I agree he totally does) but be Jeftichew.

Furthermore, if he were George Harrison, he would *have* to be a hippymancer... and it would be very, very strange if he was a hippymancer and yet unfamiliar to Janis.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby thorne » Tue May 17, 2011 12:14 pm

wrecan wrote:Here's my epileptic twee of the day

That was a great read. Thanks!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby Masennus » Tue May 17, 2011 12:23 pm

SteveMB wrote:Parson is a one of a kind. Casters aren't. Breaking whatever rules have prevented casters from using the MK as a military staging ground until now (whether it's something in the world's mechanics or tradition enforced by the Powers That Be in the MK) thus has a much bigger effect on the system as a whole.

That seems to be what Janis is thinking. My point is that she is shortsighted for thinking there's a difference. Or blind because she has given Parson godlike status in her mind.

Whatever her reason, she is an idiot.

You see two people running to do the same thing. Both are using a new backdoor in defenses that has heretofore been sacred. Parson going himself is ok. Parson taking two people through (as Janis interprets what she sees) is unconscionable?

One rule breaker or two, the rule is broken. Does Janis really think the world at large will bother with the distinction between Parson and a "regular caster"? I cannot imagine why they would.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby Wren » Tue May 17, 2011 12:33 pm

Here's my epileptic twee of the day

Epic twee you mean. Very impressive. Until I started reading the previous two pages of posts, I wasn't even aware of the existence of most of the characters for whom you've concocted extremely believable motivations.

I am constantly amazed by the depth of analysis that occurs on these forums; but what is really incredible is that Rob can work under such scrutiny! As a writer I would find it paralyzing to try to stay one step ahead of the intense speculation of erfworld fans. All I can say is, bravo all around!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby kagato23 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:52 pm

A lot of people seem to think that Parson is about to be targeted for a delay or capture. I think this is a straight up assassination attempt. Jeftichew (I am assuming based on the circumstantial evidence this is him, my theory falls apart otherwise obviously) has sketchy reasons to work for charlie, and somehow I doubt Jillian is in on Charlies plans enough to be his go-between in a pickup. For one thing, if that was the case, he wouldn't have dropped her when she was still needed.

Jeftichew might not work for charlie, but he'd sure listen carefully if somebody told him the chief warlord of the side responsible for his kingdom's demise was coming through the portal. Charlie couldn't control him but he sure could unleash him. Jeftichew has every reason to want this guy croaked.

The scroll may be necessary if he's low on Juice: Jeftichew could theoretically be a third part of the Kingsworld link and now he needs a scroll to attack.

At any rate, I don't think Charlie is willing to risk anything to get Hamster at this point. I'm sure he still wants him if it can be managed, but underestimating Parson or even giving him a little slack has gone very badly every other time it's been tried. Charlie is probably more then willing to just have Parson dead at this point, bracer or no. Maybe if the whole Jetstone fight had worked out, but he just saw that turn into one clusterboop after another, so if he's going to cut his losses and just take care of the real problem, now's the time to do it. Wanda is actually not a direct threat to him, and he knows that now. But Parson is a threat in any scenario.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby mmooneybsa » Tue May 17, 2011 12:55 pm

Masennus wrote:Janis comes across as incredibly stupid to me in this update.

"We want to help you! It is ok for Parson to use the MK as his personal transit service. No big!"

That is Marie's opinion, Janis never approves of Parson using the MK. A few updates ago we see Janis & Marie supprised to figure out what is about to happen (but no opinions given), skip to now we see Marie approving and Janis disapproving. Janis's first line in panel 2 is disapproval.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby wrecan » Tue May 17, 2011 1:06 pm

mmooneybsa wrote:That is Marie's opinion, Janis never approves of Parson using the MK. A few updates ago we see Janis & Marie supprised to figure out what is about to happen (but no opinions given), skip to now we see Marie approving and Janis disapproving. Janis's first line in panel 2 is disapproval.

That's an excellent point. That exchange was in Text Update 45:

Janis looked at the portal for a number of seconds, then started and gasped.
"He didn't order you through, did he? You're not going through this portal...!
"No," sighed Sizemore. He did not look up at all.
"No," echoed Marie. "Not you, is it? Your boss, though."
He was sure he flinched a little, but Sizemore said nothing. Seeing no way around it, he went ahead and constructed the trapdoor. The vibrations underfoot were unmistakable.
He looked up at last.
Marie met his eyes, but her face was turned away, her mouth twisted into a dot. Janis' look begged him to deny what she was thinking. He shrugged.
The women then turned to one other.
"That... That would change everything," said Janis, in an awed whisper.
Marie's voice went soft and low, but her eyes still smiled. "Dint I tell you."

I think too many people took "awed whisper" to mean approval. I think it just means her amazement at Parson's audacity. The statement that she looked at Sizemore and silently begged him to deny what she was thinking (that Parson was going to use Portal Park to get to Jetstone) says a whole lot more.

In this update, she never approves of Parson's actions. Before she notes Jeftichew, she says "this will upset a lot of people", and she's referring to just Parson. After that, she's just flailing for some reason to try to back out of Marie's plan. She thought ending war would preserve MK -- now she's beginning to realize that it's going to destroy it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby AL_Lagarto » Tue May 17, 2011 1:13 pm

While we're tossing out speculation on what's in the scroll, maybe it's high level Dittomancy and Charlie wants to just borrow Parson's mind for a bit.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue May 17, 2011 1:22 pm

Boy this it's a charlie ally theory is sure going around. Oh and how do these casters have this much real time info?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby MarbitChow » Tue May 17, 2011 1:40 pm

Since everyone else is throwing out wild guesses:
Spoiler: show
Speculation: Carnymancy allows slight-of-hand. The scroll is a carnymancy scroll which will swap the Mathamancy bracer with a fake. Jeftichew is going to steal the bracer, then sell it to Charlie for a huge sum, which will allow ol' Jef to pay for his own upkeep for hundreds of turns, and still allows him to keep his promise to not work for a non-royal side.

There are a number meta-narrative reasons why I suspect this will occur. First, the bracer has been shown to be exceedingly powerful, giving Parson fantastic intel. Removing the bracer will allow Parson to start making justifiable mistakes, thus increasing tension. Second, Charlie as the big bad guy already possesses massive knowledge; giving him the bracer will justify the author allowing Charlie to 'cheat' even more, thwarting Parson at every turn with exactly the right combinations, until Parson breaks the rules again.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby atteSmythe » Tue May 17, 2011 2:08 pm

hajo wrote:
goodmorning wrote:Wow, Janis is finally backing out of her support for Parson?

I get the impression, that she didn't think much about how their plan would unfold,
and all the implications. She sounded a lot different when talking to Sizemore...

Zeku wrote:She's a hippiemancer, she's having a NIMBY attack, that's all. Peace on Erf is one thing, but war in her own glade is another. It adds to her character development, and makes the MTTA seem a little more sinister.

Yeah, I imagine the revolution was a lot easier when it was happening to other people's Sides.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby Gathrun » Tue May 17, 2011 2:08 pm

There doesn't need to be an informant in the Great Minds or Charlie to have broken the code for him to know what's going on. The Great Minds use a code, because they are suspicious that Charlie can monitor normal thinkigrams. We don't know how detailed it was, but Parson relayed the battle plan to Wanda through a normal thinkigram.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 61

Postby Beeskee » Tue May 17, 2011 2:10 pm

It looks like a blue scroll, have we seen blue ones before? What color does that represent?

I'm not sure if the scrolls use color combinations, due to the number of branches of magic there are. This one has a dark blue handle, light blue paper, and a dark blue ribbon/stripe marking.
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