Book 2 – Page 62

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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Calemyr » Thu May 26, 2011 12:32 am

I like Jojo so far. The carnival barker's patter, the Jack-like intelligible nonsense... He could be a lot of fun to have around.

That said, I have to wonder if that scroll isn't exactly turnamancy, but designed to undo only a portion of the summon spell that brought Parson here. Namely, the ones that make him beholden to Stanley and Wanda. In the same motion he'd be potentially crippling the faction that destroyed his side, AND setting off a course of events that would make him truly alien to the Erf. An equal to Charlie, in fact - powerful and unpredictable and fearsome beyond measure. It... it brings a tear to my eye.

Could be Charlie's plan, really. "I want Parson, but the effects of the summoning spell is making him too loyal. If I break that bond, I can persuade him to my side."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu May 26, 2011 12:34 am

<tinfoil>
Maybe Jo Jo has a minor in Predictamancy. He can see the strains ahead where the active efforts of the other groups fuzz the possibilities, and just thinks it would be fun to be a spoiler.
</tinfoil>
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Knightclass » Thu May 26, 2011 12:36 am

Wasn't "Chewy" the Uniroyal Carnymance who swore loyalty to the royals? I doubt whatever is in that scroll is good news for Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby the_tick_rules » Thu May 26, 2011 12:39 am

yep that's him. I dunno it depends on what he's there to do, hard to guess.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu May 26, 2011 12:45 am

I (strongly) predict that JoJo will tell Parson that his scroll will free Parson from his duty/allegiance to GK, and make him a true free agent. A true wild card. This would also be in keeping with the new bonus Thinkamancer page from Book 1.

The question in my mind is whether Parson will believe him. And whether JoJo is telling the truth.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Stuv » Thu May 26, 2011 1:42 am

Just a quick two points:

-"Here Comes the Sun" is a George Harrison song, so at least I wasn't completely off-target?

-This is the first reference back to the song in the MK on page 11. Revelers in a glade of Hippiemancers, singing the finale from "A Mighty Wind", now explained to be discussing Fate magic. Any speculation?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby teratorn » Thu May 26, 2011 1:43 am

Just kill the guy Parson. This is moronic, I expected better from Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby DunkelMentat » Thu May 26, 2011 2:00 am

I think he's a rogue agent working for no one, possibly looking for revenge. I think the "individual" who he talks about is himself. He is definitely "the one who could get it alllll undone!"

Or maybe I'm just real unsober right now, I dunno.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Aquillion » Thu May 26, 2011 2:02 am

I'm leaning towards all of this just being patter to keep Parson distracted while he goes for whatever he wanted to do.

This could actually be some form of Carnymancy he's using right now, which would explain why Parson stopped and isn't attacking.

teratorn wrote:Just kill the guy Parson. This is moronic, I expected better from Parson.
Parson doesn't know everything we know (specifically, he has no reason to think that this guy is from Unaroyal, or that he might be working for Charlie), and, therefore, doesn't have enough information to give him a reason to murder someone in cold blood when they haven't done anything more aggressive than chase after him and try to start up a conversation with him.

Attacking him would be burning a bridge that Parson doesn't know anything about yet. Depending on who he is, it could make relations with the Magic Kingdom even worse. And, on top of all that -- Parson has no reason to be certain he can take the guy. Sure, he has a bunch of artifacts, but he's never actually fought before, and he has no idea what Jojo's capabilities are.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Sixty » Thu May 26, 2011 2:40 am

If the scroll does send him back, perhaps Parson will only remember Jojo and a bizarre adventure.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby teratorn » Thu May 26, 2011 2:42 am

Aquillion wrote: Sure, he has a bunch of artifacts, but he's never actually fought before, and he has no idea what Jojo's capabilities are.


Yes he did, he decapitated a rammerdog in book one. He's a heavy and packs a mighty punch.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby trench8891 » Thu May 26, 2011 2:51 am

I doubt very much Jefftichew is there representing any sort of "free will faction", since not only is there no evidence that such a thing exists, there's no evidence that anyone in Erfworld other than Parson has any interest in free will. Rather, this is further evidence that Jefftichew has at the very least been in contact with Charlie, for information if nothing else. In which case, he's either working for Charlie (possibly via Faq) or Charlie has some way of knowing what he'll do. Charlie doesn't really seem the type to give away information and resources (the scroll?) just to create another wild card.

What puzzles me is why Jefftichew is stalling. Since he hasn't cast it already, I infer he needs to convince Parson to let him cast it. The two best guesses for what that scroll is are some sort of turnamancy or an unsummoning spell, neither of which Parson can allow to be cast on him, since he's (most likely) still under loyalty to Gobwin Knob. This implies that either Charlie doesn't know how the summoning spell works, I don't know how the summoning spell works (either by being mistaken or there's something about we haven't learned yet), or that Jefftichew is about to lie about what the scroll does. I don't know what he would say to convince Parson to let a stranger cast a spell on him, though.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Kreistor » Thu May 26, 2011 2:53 am

I guess I have to end my silence.

Jeftichew's enemy is not Parson. It was never Parson. Parson did not take part in the attack on Unaroyal.

Jeftichew's enemies are Stanley (who he can't touch), Ansom (who lead the raid, but Jeftichew can never expect to get close to) and Wanda. And where can Jeftichew get to Wanda?

At the Gate from Gobwin Knob.

There is no great conspiracy here. It's just one man seeking his revenge on the person that destroyed his side. He spends his time obsessing on his vengeance and hanging out at the portal to GK in order to harm Wanda, who has been constantly at war since taking Unaroyal and so never in the MK. Parson was simply someone that came through and did something interesting, and may be a better mark than Sizemore.

For Jeftichew to be lying in wait for Parson as part of a conspiracy, we need to involve the Predictamancers to tell him it will happen, or else he could wait all his life. Predictamancers can't seem to determine when their Predictions will occur (at least, so far their predictions are open ended in time frame), so that means once a Prediction has indicated Parson will pass into MK, we have to add a Mathemancer to tell us when he will probably do so.

Many casters in the MK are concerned about Parson being in their Kingdom, since he might be able to force them to join his side (at least, that's the most likely reason I can see for their severe reaction to his presence), the Predictamancers might have made such predictions and bought the required services from the Mathemancers. That does, however, create conspiracy, and not amoung a group that seems particularly reliable at keeping secrets. A conspiracy of people that tell the future isn't going to last long.

So how does Jeftichew know about Parson? The situation in the MK immediately after Parson returned to GK made it evident that some in the MK knew about him, and wanted to ensure his survival, despite the paranoia of every other nearby caster that demanded his death. That is going to force people to make explanations -- where did he come from, how can he come to MK, why should we let him live, and worst of all, how do you know about him at all? A lot of powerful casters were going to need answers from the conspirators that created the scroll to bring Parson to Erfworld. Parson will, in the MK, become common knowledge, just to ensure he cannot steal people away by sneaking in.

Note that none of this requires Charlie. All of the knowledge of what and who Parson is is already inside the MK, so we don't need Charlie to explain it to anyone, and the opportunity, motive and means to commit this conspiracy are present without Charlie. Charlie is not going to trust Jeftichew, mostly because Charlie knows many Royals believe him to be little better than Stanley, but also because Charlie only hires Casters from the MK temporarily, and does not pop them. Charlie hires casters to perform specific tasks, and he cannot know Parson will be in the MK unless he does as described above, buying the services of a variety of disciplines, just to get to the point where he can hire anyone for the job. Additionally, while Jeftichew's oath probably carries no Natural Thinkamancy now that his Ruler is dead, it is highly unlikely he'd switch so totally to the opposite viewpoint of his former Ruler. He will always be disinclined to work for Charlie, because Royals believe that Charlie is already working with Stanley. Jeftichew, even if told of Parson by Charlie, will not switch his hatred to him, just because a Toolist tells him the guy is dangerous. And Jeftichew is a leak that might inform any Royal sides that he serves. Jeftichew has let Sizemore pass into MK unscathed, so why would he fixate on Parson, even if someone else wanted him to do so?

If Jeftichew is simply lying in wait for Wanda, that scroll is going nothing less than brutally lethal. Carnies are not non-violent. They need to deal with people that get angry for them using their cons and tricks to take people's money. While he has elements of George Harrison, he also has elements of a circus performer. He is going to con Parson, just like a Carny, but it will be Wanda that is the victim.

Oh, and BTW...

Fedor Jeftichew billed himself as "Jojo the Dog Faced Boy." The tie in to "Get Back" and the similarity between uniforms with George is remarkable, except Get Back wasn't on Sgt. Peppers with the uniform (It was on their last album, Let It Be). Had it been, I might have suggested that the name chosen for the man in Get Back came from Fedor. "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite" came directly from a circus poster purchased by Lennon, after all, so he did steal from that industry for his lyrics.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby trench8891 » Thu May 26, 2011 4:17 am

Kreistor wrote:Jeftichew's enemies are Stanley (who he can't touch), Ansom (who lead the raid, but Jeftichew can never expect to get close to) and Wanda. And where can Jeftichew get to Wanda?

At the Gate from Gobwin Knob.


Or Spacerock. If he wanted Wanda, he could simply of allied himself with anyone in the Second Royal Crown Coalition, Jetstone being the clear choice. It's not at all unreasonable to assume that if Jefftichew were simply after revenge on Wanda, he would already have been at Spacerock. What's more, if he hasn't had any contact with Charlie, why would he be bringing up free will with Parson right then, when we've never seen any evidence that anyone else in Erfworld struggles with that question? If he hadn't had contact with Charlie, he either randomly happened to care about the same thing as Parson, or he has a contact inside Gobwin Knob... both of which are extremely unlikely, whereas having been in touch with Charlie is easily feasible. For that matter, why talk to him at all? If he's so hell-bent on revenge, why not just follow Parson through the portal? Clearly his plan, whatever it is, includes Parson, and if Parson isn't his target, there's no good reason to stop and talk to him right there. If he wants information on Wanda, he has to realize he's not going to get it right then. If he wants Parson's help, he also has to realize the timing is pretty terrible. If he wants to share information about Wanda with Parson, why not relay it through Sizemore sometime earlier?

Not to mention waiting there to murder Wanda right in the middle of Portal Park seems like an exceptionally bad plan. If he has the patience to sit around and wait for her rather than rush off to Spacerock, you'd think he'd have the sense to realize that's not a good idea.

The theory that Jefftichew is working on his own and is just trying to kill Wanda just doesn't hold water. Considering there's a good chance Charlie knew what Parson was planning, do we really think he wouldn't choose that moment to take some action if at all able? He's already tapped one former Unaroyal caster, it's not at all hard to believe he's tapped another. That's not a conspiracy. Maybe a scheme, possibly even fiendish, but not a conspiracy. It's also the most likely theory being kicked around with the fewest obvious holes. The only real question anyone's asking is: what's that scroll gonna do?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby goodmorning » Thu May 26, 2011 5:00 am

There seems to be a hole in the thinking here.

Jeftichew is here talking about free will. He wants to know if Parson believes in free will, and we're assuming therefore that Jojo also believes that free will exists. The connection to Charlie has already been made, because we know in a text update over the summer Charlie stated that he was "no tool of the Titans." Charlie also believes in free will, and has already reasoned that to kill one of the wielders of the tools would be evidence of this.

So why does Jojo need to be working for Charlie? He can be working with him instead. If Charlie believes in free will, he has no need of a loyalty stat. The decrypted Archons have not told Parson all of their secrets because while they have been turned to be loyal to GK, their free will allows them to protect Charlie still. The archon bit is a stretch, but its possible.

Anyway, the important point is that Charlie, if he believes in free will, does not need to employ or otherwise turn people to his side. He can simply ask. And he has done so to Jojo. Jojo agreed because he also believes in the cause of free will. Parson is now being made a similar offer. The scroll may be a loyalty destroying spell, but if free will really exists, then Parson will have no need of it. Its either that to help him, or its a backup plan.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby kwokkie » Thu May 26, 2011 6:44 am

I'm not familiar with all the rules, so here's a question:

It's GKs turn at the moment; Jefftichew is probably not on GK's side; can he actually use scrolls or cast any spells right now if it's not his sides turn?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby MarbitChow » Thu May 26, 2011 6:56 am

kwokkie wrote:I'm not familiar with all the rules, so here's a question:

It's GKs turn at the moment; Jefftichew is probably not on GK's side; can he actually use scrolls or cast any spells right now if it's not his sides turn?

It's not GK's turn: Parson is cheating. :D
But yes, according to the rules, when two sides are in the same hex, they can use / cast whatever they want on each other.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Sihoiba » Thu May 26, 2011 7:20 am

One possibility is:

Charlie hacks thinkagrams knows Parson is planning to head to Jetstone through the magic kingdom. Provides Jefftichew with a thinkamancy suggestion scroll, with the plan of using it to make Parson kill Wanda.

Goal of killing a tool wielder achieving someone who rallies against fate.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby Goshen » Thu May 26, 2011 7:54 am

I have to ask: What is a Carnymancer? What do they do?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 62

Postby joosy » Thu May 26, 2011 8:11 am

Goshen wrote:I have to ask: What is a Carnymancer? What do they do?


Not sure - but I do know that most carnival folks, along with other 'stagemancy' types, are keen on mis-direction. With carnival folks, the goal is to get what they want from the gullible marks watching the show. The marks either hand it over willingly or are distracted while its taken from them.

As has already been stated ad-nauseum: Jojo was lying in wait and was prepared for this moment. He was not suprised but rather expecting Parson and addressed him by name. Occaam's Razor points to Charlie as the source for such information. Even if that is incorrect, he is still from UnaRoyal and has a score to settle with Gobwin Knob. In any case, it is doubtful his plan is beneficial to Parson much less GK.

I also agree that his statements could also be part of him casting a spell. The whole thing could be rhyme-o-mancy or a specific spell. Rhyme-o-mancy is part of stagemancy and we have also seen such innocuous phrases as 'mind the gap', 'pozzolana' 'trioxin', 'callahan's','Foghat, fool for the city' as triggers.
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