Book 2 – Text Updates 050

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:28 am

BTW, thanks for nocking and loosing. I hate it when people "fire" their bows in worlds without guns.

Also: Heh, war pigeons. "Sir, the enemy is sending a cloud of bats straight at us!" "No problem, soldier, dump out the wagonload of walnuts!"
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:19 am

Well first it's good to see that there's people with brains left in Jetstone and recognize Trems military skillz suck plain and simply (personally charge towards the enemy heavy artillery, yeah that just ought to end well)

Second, quite a lot of new info. You can train units whitout combat, stacking for stealth, seeing units specials, geting drunk affects your combat stats, good stuff.

Perhaps more important than all, political intrigue alone can lead a side to make bad military decisions. High level warlord with the rare archery special and you keep them as city managers?

Also quite interesting how in a world where everything heals at dawn, taking out an eye from your prince will just be taken as a minor offense.

"Oh,I'm so sorry sir, my dagger just hapened to slip between your ribcages and fail to kill you!

No problem lad, tomorrow it will be as fine as new!"


But of course this update can only mean one thing on the near future... SERVANT ARCHER VS ARTEMIS! :twisted:
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:26 am

A new character and a great update? Awesome. I've got to complement the author, I love the way the tension is building and all the little details continue to color things in.

Also great character building as well. The first mention of Artemis and I'm already hoping she hangs around for a bit. And as such I worry for Artemis though. What a dangerous situation to be heading into, and a type of battle she isn't fond of (she sounds more the huntress, ranger type, which would fit with her name sake). Still she seems to have a good head on her shoulders, and all was far from lost (Trem was planning to attack if he saw benefit in it after all). And I worry about LL...

Though I got onto a strange tangent of thought, about duty and loyalty and all that. Artemis's career as a warlord was derailed due to a loss that was attributed to her through courtly intrigue. Now anyone below ruler is compelled to do what they can for the good of the side, and I guess any troop or leader could make a wrong decision, though they thought it was right (or just be hopeless but well intentioned through duty). In such a case advisers and courtiers could be equally compelled to see them demoted or limited in their future (whisper campaigns for the good of the side). But if Artemis wasn't at fault, if there was nothing she could do, surely their efforts would be detrimental to their side (sidelining a warlord who would be far better in the field)?

charles wrote:Interesting to note that she thinks they'll all croak of Slately croaks. I thought they would become neutral and then fight ad-hoc. But then Gobwin Knob would effectively have captured the city and own all units in it if they capture the tower together with the courtyard and dungeon they already hold. Their previous record on captured units seems to be croak and decrypt so I guess thats covers it all.


Nice to see a Footrot Flats fan.

Mechanically if a king dies without an heir all of their cities freeze (so anyone in it would also be frozen) and are very easy pickings then for anyone who wants to take them. So if Slately dies Artemis is thinking it will be all over.

I believe only heirs turn barbarians in the event they find themselves without a city to inherit (Jillian became a barbarian while she was in the field when all three of her fathers cities were destroyed).

fjolnir wrote:I like the dog food reference, it cements 2 things about her character it draws a parallel with the huntress (who possessed hounds) and she has been in the metaphorical "dog house" since she accidentally blinded Ansom in a poorly thought out demonstration of skill.


I really like that as well. Plus I like the quirky nature of themeng a group of (I assume) badasses after dog food.

Can you imagine how recent Erfworld histowy would have been different if she had nailed that shot? Artemis was Jillian before Jillian -- exactly the kind of girl Prince Ansom likes.


I thought so to. It would be interesting for Jillian and her to talk (though I might be getting ahead of myself, since this is her first appearance).

AL_Lagarto wrote:If Gobwin Knob 'inherits' the production of a royal heir, Parson might have quite the job convincing Stanley not to disband an unwanted heir.


It would be a really interesting turn of events. Assuming it was a good heir it could become a very potent unit. Although I guess Stanley wouldn't need to keep it as an heir, just as a royal warlord (assuming Trem, Oss and Ansom were all popped as royal heirs, only one was officially designated as it). Although then again Stanley is a bit envious of royals I suspect - it might appeal to him to has a royal heir.

ftl wrote:If Jetstone's hopes are on random level 8 warlords blindly charging into battle, that's not a good sign.


Level 8 is pretty good though, isn't it? What level was Ansom in book 1 - 9 or something? And we don't know what level LL is at, or if she has been injured at all. And Artemis isn't charging blindly into battle - she is stacking for stealth, which suggests anything other then wildly charging in. Plus I wonder if siege purples are the best thing to be fighting heavies and warlords with (since traditionally I don't think siege is the greatest thing to use against a small, tough unit sneaking up on you).

Still, the whole thing is meant to look a bit grim for Jetstone (and maybe look like a ray of hope for them as well). Even if Artemis does overcome LL, Jetstone is still in a tough spot (but it might buy them time/breathing space). Parson rushing there suggests to me he doesn't think it would ever be as easy as "LL will collapse the tower, killing the king, with little or no problems or losses to her forces".

BakaGrappler wrote:Since Rob went to the effort to give us an awesome name, a complete physical description, a history complete with achievements, and a woman with intelligence, I am sincerely hoping she does not Croak. Should Jetstone remain an enemy of GK, I'm hoping she'll become the new right hand man to replace Antiem, who's been TWARTed. Minerva and Sylvia may even become rivals. Nothing better than a catfight with swords and the like.


Agreed!

Dr Quest DFA wrote:A fight between Sylvia and Artemis might be difficult since one of them fights with a bow and arrow and the other with pure (melee) awesomeness (OK a sword and dwagon, but the range still holds). My guess is that Artemis will try to waylay Sylvia to but Slately some time, do a fair amount of damage but Sylvia some out ahead (maybe getting a needed bonus boost as Parson enters the hex at a key moment). Of course we all know how accurate forum speculation is, I just hope that Sylvia lives to fight another day.


I wonder, with Erfworld mechanics being what they are, if a Smaug being brough down by an arrow type event could ever occur (probably not).
Last edited by Dancing Cthulhu on Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:35 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Well first it's good to see that there's people with brains left in Jetstone and recognize Trems military skillz suck plain and simply (personally charge towards the enemy heavy artillery, yeah that just ought to end well)


I don't recall him ever personally leading a charge against the enemy artillery (if I remember correctly he wasn't planning on launching an attack until Slately was on his way, and then only if he felt such an attack was worth it). His biggest mistake was being in an area that wasn't sufficiently capable of withstanding attacks from various sonic dwagons.

Perhaps more important than all, political intrigue alone can lead a side to make bad military decisions. High level warlord with the rare archery special and you keep them as city managers?


That really interested me as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:38 am

Dun dun dunnnn!

I say, I am getting verily concerned about the future well-being of my avatar source. I sure hope that somehow, once again, Sylvia can beat the odds by sheer dint of awesomeness. She was built up (to whatver extent that was) by one moment here, one moment there - just a smidgen of screen time but still a better progression than one CV, which is what Text-Update introduced characters get. Live or dust, win or lose, shine on you crazy ruby.

Oh and I see that people have jumped on being concerned about Sylvia, while not showing concern about Trem yet. I agree. He'll make it alive (as in, not decrypted), that is almost a given.

Berserkas wrote:Que rabid Sylvia fanboy rage.


I see you trollin' ;)

badninja wrote:Holy shit, is some fan favorite, Silvia, about to face a difficult battle or will Parson's arrival give her the ability to overcome this challenge?


I suppose something could go like this- Artemis takes a shot at Sylvia, and it goes straight and true ... then Parson enters the Spacerock portal, Sylvia's bonus increases (even if just by a little), causing the arrow to have second thoughts and miss. Hilarious, but nah.

I wonder how the Parson/Sylvia shippers will react to this turn of events though.

Renion wrote:
balder wrote:Both things that have been pointed out here were errors. And rushing to post was the reason for both. Fixing them now, thanks.


While we're on the subject, it looks like Sylvia and Duke Antium switched places accidently. Pretty sure she's meant to be in the portal room while Duke Antium's leading the strike on the tower.... :mrgreen:


While I sympathize with your intentions, NO. Sylvia's whole shtick is to face the biggest dangers. Keeping her locked up in a cushy safe haven is not her style.

Guppy wrote:Can you imagine how recent Erfworld histowy would have been different if she had nailed that shot? Artemis was Jillian before Jillian -- exactly the kind of girl Prince Ansom likes.


Not sure. Yeah, both are women who love to croak things. However, Artemis strikes me as the driven professional. Fans or Hans of Jillian would agree she does not want to fit inside that kind of box.

oslecamo2_temp wrote:But of course this update can only mean one thing on the near future... SERVANT ARCHER VS ARTEMIS! :twisted:


My thoughts exactly. I wonder where Captain Archer is at.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
BakaGrappler wrote:Since Rob went to the effort to give us an awesome name, a complete physical description, a history complete with achievements, and a woman with intelligence, I am sincerely hoping she does not Croak. Should Jetstone remain an enemy of GK, I'm hoping she'll become the new right hand man to replace Antiem, who's been TWARTed. Minerva and Sylvia may even become rivals. Nothing better than a catfight with swords and the like.


Agreed!


And I'd add my voice to that. Parson needs more competent rivals, which is why I think/hope Trem makes it, and Artemis needs some chances to prove her worth on-screen.

Of course, the optimal solution for me is one where I get to keep my avatar source as-is, because said blob of pixels and Artemis just became "enemy mine"/"only one allowed to croak you" or something.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:42 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:Well first it's good to see that there's people with brains left in Jetstone and recognize Trems military skillz suck plain and simply (personally charge towards the enemy heavy artillery, yeah that just ought to end well)


I don't recall him ever personally leading a charge against the enemy artillery.


So, yeah. Y'all know that I think Trem is a petty little shite that relies on big brothers to protect his fat mouth, but give the lil' guy some credit. He didn't know the artillery was on the other side of the wall, and if he suspected it, well even then, he needed the King out of the Tower. Especially if there was a danger to collapse it. Should he have been present with the expedition? I guess he thought that Slately would be easier to abduct if the last prince of Jetstone were there.

On another note, observe that Trem is going to have to fight everyobdy, including people of his own side, on the topic of his ... less-than-manly Signamancy. Even Artemis doesn't take him seriously as a warlord.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:53 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Oh and I see that people have jumped on being concerned about Sylvia, while not showing concern about Trem yet. I agree. He'll make it alive (as in, not decrypted), that is almost a given.


I think him being so badly injured shocked me too much to comment. Damn it Pierce, Trem needs you now!

And I'd add my voice to that. Parson needs more competent rivals, which is why I think/hope Trem makes it, and Artemis needs some chances to prove her worth on-screen.


Well said.

I'd like to know more about the Battle for Toughskin, and how Artemis and her knights were key to the victory. Plus it is an interesting bit there - I think Oss has gotten a bit of an unfair rap. While he might not be as famously brilliant as Ansom, he seems to have had a real talent for spotting, well, talent. Potential. Both Ace and Artemis have commended him for seeing something in them that others wouldn't or couldn't (and now both seem to have pivotal roles in this battle).
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:17 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:Well first it's good to see that there's people with brains left in Jetstone and recognize Trems military skillz suck plain and simply (personally charge towards the enemy heavy artillery, yeah that just ought to end well)


I don't recall him ever personally leading a charge against the enemy artillery (if I remember correctly he wasn't planning on launching an attack until Slately was on his way, and then only if he felt such an attack was worth it). His biggest mistake was being in an area that wasn't sufficiently capable of withstanding attacks from various sonic dwagons.


O'rrly? From this very update:

When they dragged the last Prince of Jetstone out to the shaded walk beside Mainway, the Countess' internal bowstring had already snapped. The moment she saw the Prince assembling her Knights for a charge into the tower, she broke ranks and ran for the Garrison.

The time that it took her to descend the walls and shoulder her way through the crowd was only a bit less than the time it took for the Chief Warlord to incapacitate himself and wound several of her fighters.


So yes, Artemis, as an experienced military unit, could see the massive blunder on Trem's side on geting himself on direct range of the enemy siege. And of course, instead of using the stealth stacking to see if he could avoid detection, Trems runs around screaming at the top of his lungs, which allowed Scarlet to easily locate him as seen here.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:21 am

Wait a second. Did Trem know about the Siege next door?

I'm thinking it's less consequential to deciding whether Trem was holding the Sphere of Reduced Faculties, but I just plain ol' forgot. Will check a few updates ago.

My reasoning is, Trem needed to send something to retrieve Slately, moreso if the Tower was being attacked. What's open for debate is the shout, and the decision to go along.

EDIT:

ok, give the guy (some kind of) a break. He suspects, but doesn't know, that the Tower is in danger at that very moment. (As in, he's thinking something is being set up, he just doesn't think it's read yet).

Also, it's not just him doing the shouting.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:38 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:Well first it's good to see that there's people with brains left in Jetstone and recognize Trems military skillz suck plain and simply (personally charge towards the enemy heavy artillery, yeah that just ought to end well)


I don't recall him ever personally leading a charge against the enemy artillery (if I remember correctly he wasn't planning on launching an attack until Slately was on his way, and then only if he felt such an attack was worth it). His biggest mistake was being in an area that wasn't sufficiently capable of withstanding attacks from various sonic dwagons.


O'rrly? From this very update:

When they dragged the last Prince of Jetstone out to the shaded walk beside Mainway, the Countess' internal bowstring had already snapped. The moment she saw the Prince assembling her Knights for a charge into the tower, she broke ranks and ran for the Garrison.


I'm not sure that means what you think it does. You were knocking Trem's leadership skills for "personally charge towards the enemy heavy artillery" which he didn't do. A warlord some distance from him observed him sending some of his troops into the tower (away from the dwagons) - something Trem evidently felt was necessary as he was waiting for Slately to move from the tower to safety before he began his counter attack (since if Slately dies that is it for Jetstone).

It doesn't say Artemis saw what LL was doing or anything like that - it says she saw was Jetstone was and wasn't doing.

There is a bit of a lack of communication since Trem's planning relies on Slately doing something, while Slately has seen another chance and is pursuing it, leaving Trem in the lurch. Artemis would probably be doing things differently, though she would almost certainly still be acting in a way that would preserve Slately's life as well (since she wouldn't know about his plan to make Trem heir either).

Now I dare say Trem didn't know what was on the other side of the wall (since he can't see through rock and wood) - all he would know was the things GK might have there (including purple dwagons), so time is off the essence (he'd probably also know about the battle for the Portal). LL doesn't show she knew Trem was there either mind. She was already in position getting ready to begin attacking the tower when she heard the cries of "For Jetstone!" (here response -"There's some timing.") Trem got injured not because he was charging heavy artillery, but because a bunch of sonic dwagons blasted the wall/gate to the tower a short distance from where he was standing.

The time that it took her to descend the walls and shoulder her way through the crowd was only a bit less than the time it took for the Chief Warlord to incapacitate himself and wound several of her fighters.


So yes, Artemis, as an experienced military unit, could see the massive blunder on Trem's side on geting himself on direct range of the enemy siege. And of course, instead of using the stealth stacking to see if he could avoid detection, Trems runs around screaming at the top of his lungs, which allowed Scarlet to easily locate him as seen here.


She was already heading down when the dwagons blasted the wall, she'd started heading down when she witnessed Trem sending he knights into the tower. She had to ask the knights what they were going to be doing when she got there. The update seems to be saying, to me, that she was primarily unhappy about how Trem was organizing his troops for the upcoming battle, not that he was standing to close to some purple dwagons.
Last edited by Dancing Cthulhu on Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:48 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Now I dare say Trem didn't know what was on the other side of the wall (since he can't see through rock and wood) - all he would know was the things GK might have there (including purple dwagons), so time is off the essence (he'd probably also know about the battle for the Portal). LL doesn't show she knew Trem was there either mind. She was already in position getting ready to begin attacking the tower when she heard the cries of "For Jetstone!" (here response -"There's some timing.") Trem got injured not because he was charging heavy artillery, but because a bunch of sonic dwagons blasted the wall/gate to the tower a short distance from where he was standing.


Damn, if just Trems controled an higher ground and had subordinates to report on the enemy positioning...

Oh, wait he did control the tower and he did have other troops that could scout ahead.

Moving blindly into a position where you know the enemy may be laying in wait when you could scout ahead (or get somebody else to do it for you) is horrible horrible planning.

Seriously, the purples were in plain sight for everybody to see. What did he expect the enemy to do with them? Start a dance contest?

How many times will Trems will need to put himself under the direct line of fire of the enemy guns while closing his eyes in purpose for you admit he's making grave tactical mistakes?

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:She was already heading down when the dwagons blasted the wall, she'd started heading down when she witnessed Trem sending he knights into the tower. She had to ask the knights what they were going to be doing when she got there. The update seems to be saying, to me, that she was primarily unahppy about how Trem was organizing his troops for the upcoming battle, not that he was standing to close to some purple dwagons.

High experienced warlord is unhpapy how you're using her elite troops, unhappy enough that she breaks ranks and runs towards you.

Hint:you're doing something very wrong then.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:17 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Damn, if just Trems controled an higher ground and had subordinates to report on the enemy positioning...

Oh, wait he did control the tower and he did have other troops that could scout ahead.


To be honest I'd need a bit of a map before judging that. The majority of GK's forces were in the atrium (or fighting down towards the portal room). I seem to remember Trem and co shutting a big gate to the atrium, which I believe gave GK the run of a bit of the outer city. The tower seems to have its own walls and gate (or the gate to the atrium is the gate to the tower).

EDIT: Yes, looking at the art with this update (very nice it is to) it definitely looks like the gate the purples destroyed is the same one Trem had sealed).

Moving blindly into a position where you know the enemy may be laying in wait when you could scout ahead (or get somebody else to do it for you) is horrible horrible planning.


Well, it seems like it has been mere minutes. And again, Trem and those forces are at the base of the tower currently containing the instant kill switch for their side. If they weren't there LL would have a clear run to it. (And again I'm not clear enough on the layout to know where Trem should be moving to in order to be out of danger while also preventing the tower from being destroyed). And since he closed the gate to the atrium/tower he hasn't moved blindly into position. He hasn't move at all, waiting as he is for Slately, casters and their guard to come down.

Note, Artemis isn't saying "By the Titans! Chief Warlord you should be 50 yards back behind a wall, she is saying "No...break them up," she muttered, far out of anyone's hearing below. "Don't worry about whose they are right now, restack the 1s and move them to side streets! Hurry!" In fact reading it again she never says Trem shouldn't be where he was, she is saying that from where she is standing it looks like the troops aren't being managed/maneuvered properly...

Which is a valid criticism, Trem probably doesn't have a lot of experience in swiftly re-ording masses of infantry in a city fight - plus he is overly focused on Slately, not managing the larger mass of troops, presumably letting other warlords stack themselves, hence Artemis' "don't worry about whose they are".

Artemis has an experience advantage plus is watching from afar and to be fair with less then total information. She is in relative safety and spotting what she would do differently with the troops in the position they were in (not massing in the main thoroughfare and using the side streets makes good sense). I guess one could ask though, if she had started with Trem instead of on the wall would there be any reason to think they wouldn't still be at the entrance to the tower?

Seriously, the purples were in plain sight for everybody to see. What did he expect the enemy to do with them? Start a dance contest?


Plain sight for who? We saw them on the other side of a big white wall/gate, so Trem and co most certainly wouldn't have been able to see them. Jetstone seemed to use indirect fire to attack the atrium, so evidently many archers weren't in a position to see them either. They would know GK had purples (stuck on the ground), but not necessarily be able to see what they were doing with them. Trem did have a sense of urgency though, as he knew there was danger, hence his order troops to recover Slately rather then give him a few minutes he asked for. The only person who has commented on the seige dwagons is Oss, who is holding position directly above them.

How many times will Trems will need to put himself under the direct line of fire of the enemy guns while closing his eyes in purpose for you admit he's making grave tactical mistakes?


How many times has he done that exactly? At the bridge (not his choice) and now (when there isn't really any evidence he knew he was in the direct line of fire at all and trying to see to getting Slately to safety)?

Plus him getting knocked out is more bad luck then reaping the reward for a foolish act.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:31 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:High experienced warlord is unhpapy how you're using her elite troops, unhappy enough that she breaks ranks and runs towards you.

Hint:you're doing something very wrong then.


Heh, I don't disagree that it might have been wrong (or right), though I would point out Artemis (who I've already taken a liking to) didn't actually know Trem had ordered them to retrieve Slately and might not even know plan A is "Get our Achilles heel to safety and then counter attack if it seems prudent".

While I will happily take advice/criticism from people I know to be more skilled/experienced on board generally I take it even better when they have all the facts first.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby M.A.D » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:34 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Now I dare say Trem didn't know what was on the other side of the wall (since he can't see through rock and wood) - all he would know was the things GK might have there (including purple dwagons), so time is off the essence (he'd probably also know about the battle for the Portal). LL doesn't show she knew Trem was there either mind. She was already in position getting ready to begin attacking the tower when she heard the cries of "For Jetstone!" (here response -"There's some timing.") Trem got injured not because he was charging heavy artillery, but because a bunch of sonic dwagons blasted the wall/gate to the tower a short distance from where he was standing.


Damn, if just Trems controled an higher ground and had subordinates to report on the enemy positioning...

Oh, wait he did control the tower and he did have other troops that could scout ahead.

Moving blindly into a position where you know the enemy may be laying in wait when you could scout ahead (or get somebody else to do it for you) is horrible horrible planning.

Seriously, the purples were in plain sight for everybody to see. What did he expect the enemy to do with them? Start a dance contest?

How many times will Trems will need to put himself under the direct line of fire of the enemy guns while closing his eyes in purpose for you admit he's making grave tactical mistakes?

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:She was already heading down when the dwagons blasted the wall, she'd started heading down when she witnessed Trem sending he knights into the tower. She had to ask the knights what they were going to be doing when she got there. The update seems to be saying, to me, that she was primarily unahppy about how Trem was organizing his troops for the upcoming battle, not that he was standing to close to some purple dwagons.

High experienced warlord is unhpapy how you're using her elite troops, unhappy enough that she breaks ranks and runs towards you.

Hint:you're doing something very wrong then.


Since the Purple can't fly up off-turn, Trammenis had to stay there to defend the gate in the event that they would be breaking into the tower. He doesn't have high position because he was at the bottom of the tower, defending the gate, and he can't scout from there because that'd require opening the main gate that he was defending against the Purples.

Sylvia would have broken into the tower anyway, and Tram could have been waiting for it. It was by luck that he was standing within range.

Artemis was angry because Tram was sending her soldiers into a tower that would have fallen any seconds, but Tram had to send them in because Slately was in there.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby BrotherRool » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:00 am

Artemis is right to say what she will, she just doesn't have enough knowledge of the situation or the greater strategy to make an assessment.


1. Tramenis, does know that he's at risk. He does know the possibility of an attack.

Hence the "move quickly" to his troops and the whole reason he's sending a large portion of soldiers to go, get the King and guard him.

2. He's not charging enemy into infantry at all. He's going to rescue the King and is trying to avoid fighting.

In many respects Artemis is making the wrong decision. The priority is not to stop the dragons, but to save the King. She has no guarantee that she has enough forces to stop the tower from falling. To all knowledge present the airspace is not a viable exit for the King and he needs to be moved out of the city by other means as fast as possible. He's unwilling to move and needs troops sent to him to rescue him as soon as possible. It was Tramenis aim to evacuate the tower, not defend it, preserving as many people as possible to allow the King time to retreat. That's why he wasn't planning a stealth hit.

3. His incapacitation wasn't due to his fault but unfortunate timing.

This is even recognised by Sylvia who says "There;s some timing"

4. It wasn't just Tramenis who was badly arranging units (something I could believe he isn't great at) but all his accompanying leadership.

Artemis says "warlords" plural.

5. Tramenis isn't scouting because he's trying to get the King out as fast as possible, before anything else could possibly happen.

This isn't a time for a careful approach, and his decision in that is justified in that, despite all his attempts at haste, he was still too late.


I think what we can gather is that Artemis is a very competent warlord, who treats other Jetstone warlords with a certain degree of (partially justified) contempt. In any situation she thinks the best possible solution is the one she thought up and resents the work of other people. That's reasonable, looking at her high level, the poor treatment by the Jetstone court and her attempt at manipulation of Jetstones best commanders. She never seemed to be in awe of them, but look at them as an opportunity to control, which is fine and she is very successful at. She doesn't know Slately's state of mind, nor that he isn't going to attempt an escape himself. She had better information on the forces outside the tower, and he has better information as to the overall situation.


Personally I feel Artemis is going to make the brave last stand that allows the King to get Tramenis out of the city safely. Someone needs to die and tigtas well be her
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Morgaln » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:00 am

BrotherRool wrote:
In many respects Artemis is making the wrong decision. The priority is not to stop the dragons, but to save the King. She has no guarantee that she has enough forces to stop the tower from falling. To all knowledge present the airspace is not a viable exit for the King and he needs to be moved out of the city by other means as fast as possible. He's unwilling to move and needs troops sent to him to rescue him as soon as possible. It was Tramenis aim to evacuate the tower, not defend it, preserving as many people as possible to allow the King time to retreat. That's why he wasn't planning a stealth hit.


However, without leadership, the dragons might very well stop to attack the tower and just engage whatever units they may find. We don't know if a siege attack like that might have to be directed by a warlord or not, but it seems likely. In that case, taking out the leadership would save the tower and thereby buy Slately valuable time.

I sincerely hope Artemis survives and will play a larger role in the future, and not as a decrypted. The RCC is in sore need of people I can respect and cheer on, and she certainly fits the bill.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby abb3w » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:14 am

fjolnir wrote:I like the dog food reference, it cements 2 things about her character it draws a parallel with the huntress (who possessed hounds) and she has been in the metaphorical "dog house" since she accidentally blinded Ansom in a poorly thought out demonstration of skill.

Beeskee wrote:She might also end up becoming "dog food" in the upcoming fight. :/


There's the distinct suggestion that someone's made a "dog's breakfast" of this battle.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby gazes_also » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:15 am

fjolnir wrote:I like the dog food reference, it cements 2 things about her character it draws a parallel with the huntress (who possessed hounds) and she has been in the metaphorical "dog house" since she accidentally blinded Ansom in a poorly thought out demonstration of skill.


Oblique reference to the myth of Actaeon. Artemis and hounds, sounds like someone is going to get ripped apart.

I see two possible plot lines for Artemis.
1. Croaks gloriously, with the option of being decrypted and becoming Scarlet's replacement/rival
2. Survives to escort Trem to Jetstone where he becomes king and she becomes CWL

My opinion of Trem has gone down a bit, not just for getting himself incapacitated AGAIN, but for not recognizing the capabilities of those around him. You would think as a passed over and ignored non-heir royal he would have an appreciation for others whose abilities didn't fit with the Jetstone mold, like Ace or Artemis, and engage the loyalty of these misfits. You would think he could see the value their originality. But no. Seems the apple didn't fall that far from the tree after all. At least Slately is prepared to give them a chance now that no other options are open.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Pooga » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:58 am

BakaGrappler wrote:Oh, and I only just now figured it out. He's Prince Ossomer because he's Awesomer.


Sadly, I had the same Jetstone name revelation today.

Ansom = Handsome
Ossomer = Awesomer
Trammenis = Tremendous

As soon as I saw it, I kicked myself for having read this since day one and never connecting Prince Ansom = Prince Handsome. :oops:
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby CelebrenIthil » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:08 am

Sir_Rigwald wrote:
soupy wrote:Anyone else notice the Baldur's Gate 2 default female portrait reference in the image? Or is it just my imagination?

http://images.iml.pl/crpg/bg1/npc/shar-teel.jpg


It's not just you.


Holy boop guys, it's not just any random portrait, it's Shar-Teel!
http://baldursgatehaven.net/index.php?t ... sg69#msg69

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