Book 2 – Page 63

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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby JustDoug » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:08 am

Musings... Parson wants to be in Erfworld now. Get back to Kinkos and pineapples from the boss' vacation? Right. He can literally change the World now, doing what he loves and is best at.

He aims to win the Game hard; so hard that it rolls over and gets played a whole new way, if not with a new ruleset. It's not a zero-sum game, and there can be more than one winner.

He doesn't care about Fate, as he's making his own plans. If his plans happen to coincide with Fate's, that's okay until it comes time to do things his way. All those who've made their plans on how they want the Game wind up are in for a big surprise (that includes a lot o readers, too :). If he was summoned at Erf's behest and need, you can bet that the arrangement was mutual, and he wanted it even moreso.

Of course, this is just me musing.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby kagato23 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:13 am

So now that we have an informal definition of Carnymancy, I'm more convinced then ever Kingsworld was a Trimancer linkup.

The detractors of that much debated spell said it was game breaking. But in the Carnival, the games are broken to begin with!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby fjolnir » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:21 am

Parson once again proves he's no slouch in figuring out pop culture references. Carnymancy, predictamancy, and luckamancy seem to be the holy trinity of oddsmaking in this universe and all seem to counteract one another skillfully.

Is it just me or do the guys who seem to spend their time trying their best to obfuscate the truth from others magically in this universe all seem to be somewhat mentally bent?

I will make a bold and ridiculous prediction here. We already have some idea that Parson might resist the spell or arrive back on Erf somehow if it gets cast upon him.
What if he allows it and instead of going home, it paradoxily summons the rest of his table to Erf? Arguably where he once belonged was behind a GM's screen with his buddies on the other side. We have Word Of God that his tablemates will be returning to the series in some form, why not here?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Zeku » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:24 am

And...we're back to nothing happening.

I always find situations like this a little hard to cipher. After a few dozen turns in Erfworld, I would probably have some mixed feelings about leaving or staying. The bottom line is that as a normal human being, I would be enjoying my celebrity status, and I would be doing indecent things with the archons. But, given that the existence of a place like this would force me to re-examine my entire view of the universe from the ground up, I would probably be continuously paralyzed with the notion that I don't really belong in Erfworld. He must see, that every time he invents a strategy, he poisons his environment, like Prometheus destroying an idyllic civilization with the prison of technology.

As far as Parson himself, who has shown himself to have remarkably low expectations, I think he would prefer to stay. His life has never been better or more exciting, there's a lot more about the world yet to discover, and he would also want some information concerning returning once again to Erfworld, if that became desirable.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Dr Quest DFA » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:35 am

I like Jojo, he and Jack would have a fun time being obtuse to each other.

Also kudos to Rob for working in the "Get Back" lyrics so well and Xin for Jojo's great expression.

I don't think Parson will go for it since a) he probably has a better life in Erf world than Kinkos World and b) he can't be sure that's what the scroll will actually do.

On a bit of a tangent Jojo implies there are other Carnymancers ("That's a crude slander to our noble discipline, sir"), but we have never seen any references to other Croakamancers (though MK sseems simply teeming with Thinkamancers). I wonder what other croakamancers would think of Wanda's little power upgrade and crusade. In awe? Jealous?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby shneekeythelost » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:37 am

And now we got to the song reference we've been waiting for almost a solid month now.

Interesting, offering Parson a way Back Home. But then, we all remember carnival ringleaders... they don't really offer wonders, only the tinsel-coated mundane. This isn't what he thinks it is, and if he accepts, it's gonna really screw with him. But then, he's no more going to accept than he would voluntarily give up and acknowledge defeat. He can't, it's in the contract.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Dr Pepper » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:37 am

kagato23 wrote:So now that we have an informal definition of Carnymancy, I'm more convinced then ever Kingsworld was a Trimancer linkup.

The detractors of that much debated spell said it was game breaking. But in the Carnival, the games are broken to begin with!


And they spin wheels there.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Dr Pepper » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:42 am

fjolnir wrote:Parson once again proves he's no slouch in figuring out pop culture references. Carnymancy, predictamancy, and luckamancy seem to be the holy trinity of oddsmaking in this universe and all seem to counteract one another skillfully.

Is it just me or do the guys who seem to spend their time trying their best to obfuscate the truth from others magically in this universe all seem to be somewhat mentally bent?



Whereas those who relentlessly seek to uncover the truth, ie thinkamancers, tend to be obsessively square. That probably goes for lookamancers and findamancers as well.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Dante » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:45 am

thorne wrote:That was great. Has Skeletor's staff been referred to as the "Staff of Suckage" before? That's so right on, Rob. Hahaha!

Not that I'm aware of. The proper title for Skeletor's weapon is the "Havoc Staff."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby yuffiek » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:51 am

kagato23 wrote:So now that we have an informal definition of Carnymancy, I'm more convinced then ever Kingsworld was a Trimancer linkup.

The detractors of that much debated spell said it was game breaking. But in the Carnival, the games are broken to begin with!


Yup, Carnymancy and Turnamancy with Charlie being the Thinkamancer.

Of course, Chuck probably can't imagine that Parson would want to stay. Now the question is: "Will Parson realize who Jojo's working for?"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Musrum » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:12 am

I'm thinking that JoJo's intention here is not to get Parson to lower his defences, but rather to take the scroll.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby multilis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:18 am

PhantomFox wrote:With all the Beatles references, I really should have seen this one coming. The question is, who put Jojo up to this? The plot demands Parson refuse, as we know...

No, lots of options where Parson accepts that still tell a story. Accepting would be a strange/interesting twist, so while unlikely is certainly possible, and Parson is smiling right now.

Examples:

1) the scroll is not as advertised, puts Parson to sleep, sends him to Charlie, etc. (Carnymancy based on rigging the game)
2) the great thinkers, Stanley, or some other group stops the Parson from following through, eg someone kills or disables the Carnymancy before he can finish casting)
3) The spell is as advertised. Parson disappears from world, returns to where he is at start of Book 1. Several pages has chance to talk to his friends, then is drawn back into the game, perhaps *with* his friends, perhaps discovering some creepy links to real life or needing to save his friends who are pulled into erfworld. (eg like The Chronicles of Narnia)

...

On other side of coin, one reason Parson could refuse is for exact arguments Carnymancer makes combined with a little spock: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one. Parson may have long term dream of freeing Erfworld from "fate" of an endless wargame. He already shows hints, eg destroying the sword that controlled him, then looking at ways to make a self sustaining kingdom without having to fight war.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby atalex » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:23 am

Why are so many people accepting at Jojo's claims about the scroll at face value? His entire school of magic is implicitly based around dishonest trickery! I admit it's possible that the scroll will send Parson home, but I think it's very unlikely that it would do so and nearly inconceivable that Parson would simply accept that it would do so based on the word of a total stranger he met in a tunnel underneath the MK. In fact, I cannot imagine Parson acquiescing to Jojo's request for any reason under the present circumstances unless he has already been put under a Carnymancy spell that compels him to play a game despite suspecting that it's rigged (which is probably within the Carnymancy power set).

I mean, first of all, Parson's whole schtick is genre-savviness. He knows what carnies are like back on Stupidworld and he knows on Erfworld they have magical powers. Second, and more importantly, Parson has just taken the extraordinary and potentially suicidal course of dashing through the MK for no other reason than his feeling of person responsibility towards the troops for whom he feels responsible. That's is not Duty. I don't think it's even Loyalty. I think it's something new to Erfworld called Character, and I can't see Parson shirking it right now, certainly not for the magical equivalent of a skeevy guy who jumps out of an alley and says "Hey, wanna buy a watch?"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby fjolnir » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:56 am

He is not likely to accept the proposal. However, we are still going to discuss the potential ramifications of the assent as if one is given.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Oglokoog » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:44 am

So, the question as it is presented now is: does Parson want to go back, or does he want to stay where he is and finish what he started?
Fate, Duty and Plot demand the latter, a walking Beatles reference demands the former. WHAT WILL THE ANSWER BE?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Lamech » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:09 am

atalex wrote:Why are so many people accepting at Jojo's claims about the scroll at face value? His entire school of magic is implicitly based around dishonest trickery! I admit it's possible that the scroll will send Parson home, but I think it's very unlikely that it would do so and nearly inconceivable that Parson would simply accept that it would do so based on the word of a total stranger he met in a tunnel underneath the MK. In fact, I cannot imagine Parson acquiescing to Jojo's request for any reason under the present circumstances unless he has already been put under a Carnymancy spell that compels him to play a game despite suspecting that it's rigged (which is probably within the Carnymancy power set).

I mean, first of all, Parson's whole schtick is genre-savviness. He knows what carnies are like back on Stupidworld and he knows on Erfworld they have magical powers. Second, and more importantly, Parson has just taken the extraordinary and potentially suicidal course of dashing through the MK for no other reason than his feeling of person responsibility towards the troops for whom he feels responsible. That's is not Duty. I don't think it's even Loyalty. I think it's something new to Erfworld called Character, and I can't see Parson shirking it right now, certainly not for the magical equivalent of a skeevy guy who jumps out of an alley and says "Hey, wanna buy a watch?"
Good point Parson has no reason to trust this guy. Even if he was telling the truth unless a crack team of mind readers show up to confirm it, Parson won't trust him. And what are the odds of a team of mind readers being on their way?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Zeku » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:13 am

atalex wrote:Why are so many people accepting at Jojo's claims about the scroll at face value? His entire school of magic is implicitly based around dishonest trickery


The same people believe that when Adam and Eve ate the fruit in the garden, this happened: "your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

So many religious people believe this stuff, even though this statement was uttered by the guy they call satan. People fool themselves, and they keep themselves fooled, when possible. (I'm hoping for a Styx reference, at some point.)

I wouldn't be surprised if Parson laughs this off, but then it becomes an inner struggle, perhaps prompted by some barbaric or emotional scene in the ongoing slaughter. If Parson is smart, he will not reveal the scroll's existence to anyone, provided that he gains possession of it. That kind of information can create all manner of problems.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Krennson » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:18 am

I suspect Jojo's operating on outdated intelligence.... someone probably overheard Sizemore or Maggie talking about Parson's mood swings, and guessed that he would be amenable to a return home.

If they'd tried a week ago, he might have accepted, too. But as new Chief Warlord, Parson is taking insane risks to support his troops with his personal presence. He's not going to do a 180 and abandon his people just because jojo offered him a set of ruby slippers.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:37 am

PhantomFox wrote: The plot demands Parson refuse, as we know.


Or accept and it not turn out like he expected. This is a carnymancer, it could seem like exactly what it says on the tin, or it could big one big con. Or it could actually do exactly what it says on the tin and still have an unexpected affect.

I'm sure there are lots of potential plots that would allow Parson to accept but not end up out of the story.

That said I don't think he will accept or outright refuse. He's a thinker, is out Parson, and a conflicted one about what he is doing in Erfworld. What he is really doing. He's isn't going to just go "ok, lets do this", he's going to want to think it over first.

I'm thinking he'll end up taking the scroll, and Jojo will be happy to let him because that is all he wants Parson to do. Maybe it is a plant the seed and let it grow thing. Which could create all sorts of quandaries for a loyalty/duty compelled guy, to be hiding a means of breaking away from Stanley. I wonder how the casters in his life he kind of trusts or even considers friends would respond to him having something like that?

The other option that occurs to be, if that is what happens, is could the scroll actually be a trap? If he takes it with him to Jetstone or back to GK, or lets an actual caster read it could it lead to something bad happening (heh, maybe I'm thinking a bit too much along the lines of "I prepeared explosive runes this morning")?

Krennson wrote:If they'd tried a week ago, he might have accepted, too. But as new Chief Warlord, Parson is taking insane risks to support his troops with his personal presence. He's not going to do a 180 and abandon his people just because jojo offered him a set of ruby slippers.


Though they are insane risks that he might in part be compelled to take if it is the best for his side. I wonder if Parson has thought much about "what happens if I die here?".

Plus, if it is actually a genuine scroll of "There is no place like home" that is a pretty big bit of magic Jojo has there. I'm really wondering who is involved with Jojo now. For some reason I still doubt it is Charlie.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby ZedPower » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:54 am

Parson won't leave, because he can't. He has Duty to Erf, even if he doesn't know it.
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