Book 2 – Page 63

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Krennson » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:55 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Plus, if it is actually a genuine scroll of "There is no place like home" that is a pretty big bit of magic Jojo has there. I'm really wondering who is involved with Jojo now. For some reason I still doubt it is Charlie.


a consortium of uninvolved third parties, who pooled resources to see if they could make the perfect warlord go away before he endangered everyone? if I were a ruler three or four countries away, it might make sense for me to give a few thousand schmuckers to a carnymancer promising to make the perfect warlord problem go away.
Krennson
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Glome » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:59 am

Oglokoog wrote:So, the question as it is presented now is: does Parson want to go back, or does he want to stay where he is and finish what he started?
Fate, Duty and Plot demand the latter, a walking Beatles reference demands the former. WHAT WILL THE ANSWER BE?


Well speaking words of wisdom, he should let it be, even if he longs for yesterday. Ultimately nothing is going to change Parson's world.
Glome
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 6:13 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Lamech » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:16 am

Krennson wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Plus, if it is actually a genuine scroll of "There is no place like home" that is a pretty big bit of magic Jojo has there. I'm really wondering who is involved with Jojo now. For some reason I still doubt it is Charlie.


a consortium of uninvolved third parties, who pooled resources to see if they could make the perfect warlord go away before he endangered everyone? if I were a ruler three or four countries away, it might make sense for me to give a few thousand schmuckers to a carnymancer promising to make the perfect warlord problem go away.
Actually that is generally not the case since the king could just free-load instead. I bet Charlie was behind it.
But their where two distinct parts to the "perfect warlord spell", finding Parson and summoning him. Presumably findamancers are summoners and summoning something is not overly hard. It was the finding part. Jojo is just doing the easy thing.
And yes I suppose Parson could be resummoned, but then your pinning your hopes and dreams on someone who does not care. Which means he won't be resummoned. Of course that would also imply that while Jojo might technically be able to banish Parson with out permission it would be pointless.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Khordas » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:49 am

This is made of awesome. I love Parson's expression at the moment the genre-savvy kicks in. I guess we get to find out how nostalgic Parson is for Kinkos, his crappy deathtrap of a car, etc. My thoughts; not very.

As for the spell, it doesn't have to be what Jojo says, but certainly he'd have to consider the possibility that it would be taken from him and analyzed. If Parson take it, it plants a seed; he might use it later or maybe it has a really really common command word like 'what' as in 'what is this?' or 'What does this do'. (I recall one of the 'traps' books had a trap consisting of demons with names of common adventuring phrases, and a preexisting summoning spell of the 'say their name and they arrive' variety) I can't see Parson dropping his defenses for a complete stranger, and the essence of carny games is that the trick isn't what you THINK the trick is.
Khordas
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:32 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby udat » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:54 am

Glome wrote:Well speaking words of wisdom, he should let it be, even if he longs for yesterday. Ultimately nothing is going to change Parson's world.


Heh, good work.
udat
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 8:31 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Dr Pepper » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:59 am

Glome wrote:
Oglokoog wrote:So, the question as it is presented now is: does Parson want to go back, or does he want to stay where he is and finish what he started?
Fate, Duty and Plot demand the latter, a walking Beatles reference demands the former. WHAT WILL THE ANSWER BE?


Well speaking words of wisdom, he should let it be, even if he longs for yesterday. Ultimately nothing is going to change Parson's world.


And besides, Wanda's task force is soon going to need some help.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
User avatar
Dr Pepper
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: santa maria, ca

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:43 am

On the whole, Wanda's task force is as safe as can be. What, you think one high-level Archer and a handful of goons have even enough arrows to kill all the gazillion infantry GK decrypted in the dungeon from point blank range?

A certain part of Wanda's task force however would need some timely assistance right about now.

On the scroll bit- I'm thinking that scroll will not take Parson back to Earth. Not because it wasn't intended to do so (apparently, it was), not because it couldn't (it probably can), but because as has been pointed out, Erfworld (the comic) without Parson is no longer Erfworld (the comic).

So what I'm curious to see is how Parson will rationalize saying "No". Could be something very easy, like don't take candy from strangers. Could be something more along the lines of screw Kinko's this place rocks. We'll see.

EDIT:

It would have been nice if Parson would steal that scroll and learn to use it. This world, apparently, needs Elvis to come back.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
User avatar
BLANDCorporatio
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby skarl » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:12 am

when he was asked if he would return to earth if he could, he said that he wouldn't. (it was sizemore who asked him if I remember correctly)
I'm not serious. I am never serious. seriously!

(please remember that I am a foreign speaker, and therefore make a lot of spelling & gramatic mistakes, and please don't pin me down on my exact formulation.)
User avatar
skarl
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:44 pm
Location: at the front of my computer. doh!

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Gorky » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:07 am

cloudbreaker wrote:Best line of the page:

"But yes."

this
Gorky
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:19 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby effataigus » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 am

Hmm, I think that this might be one of the most thoroughly-forum-predicted updates ever (not by me, mind you). "Get back," the function of the scroll, the deck of cards theme...

Grabbing the scroll from Jojo and running off with it seems pretty likely to me too, but I'm curious whether the optimist's or the pessimist's take on a shell game is more fitting here: either all options contain a winning outcome for the carnymancer, or all options contain a losing outcome for the player.

I can't imagine that Jojo didn't consider Parson grabbing the scroll from him and running off... so is *touching* the scroll a winning outcome for Jojo or a losing outcome for Parson? Does a staff of suckage protect against magic that the user voluntarily contacts? Normally I'd say that plotamancy is protecting Parson, but Parson is a character in search of reasons to want to take Charlie down and he still has the thinkamancers as a buffer to save him if things go a little awry.

Hey, where *are* the thinkamancers?
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby BCCroaker » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:49 am

In this game-like world, I have suspected for some time that what the PW spell did was hack the player entry system. This new scroll then hacks the player exit. We may even get a little message saying "Are you sure?".
BCCroaker
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:17 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:01 am

Full-magic block? Well, that Staff of Suckage sure is a quite powerful item. One can only wondr why Wanda didn't take it to the field. Moot point now, but still, powerful magic items just idling at the capital won't do you much good. Maybe the pliers take both hand slots?

effataigus wrote:Grabbing the scroll from Jojo and running off with it seems pretty likely to me too, but I'm curious whether the optimist's or the pessimist's take on a shell game is more fitting here: either all options contain a winning outcome for the carnymancer, or all options contain a losing outcome for the player.

Indeed, Jojo should know that the chances of Hamster taking the bait are zero.
-You don't acept gifts from random strangers.
-Specially when said strangers are cheaters by default.
-And you're in enemy territorry.
-And you're under the compulsion of a summoning spell.
-And the reason you're there it's because you want to fight at the side of your troops instead of siting at the safety of your capital.
-Not to mention your old life basically sucked, while here you're literally a God of War that's shaping ErfHistory.

So of course the trick is somewhere else. The shiny scroll is just a bait, or perhaps it isn't what it seems at all.

effataigus wrote:I can't imagine that Jojo didn't consider Parson grabbing the scroll from him and running off... so is *touching* the scroll a winning outcome for Jojo or a losing outcome for Parson? Does a staff of suckage protect against magic that the user voluntarily contacts?

My initial tought as well. That scroll is probably some special touch/proximity-trap. Hamster may just be tempted enough to take the scroll with him.

The comic normally gives hints of mechanics before they're used in an important event... Except for magic, where the author has little problem in droping super nukes out of mancer asses (cough kingsworld cough).

effataigus wrote:Hey, where *are* the thinkamancers?

Probably stablishing adefensive perimeter around the area "sugesting" other mancers that get too near. If they all start jumping into the hole, then they'll surely atract unwanted atention.

Now, to who is Jojo working? I don't see Charlie pulling out a backup-backup plan in such short time.
Formerly oslecamo2, unable to acess old acount.
oslecamo2_temp
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:08 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby wrecan » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:14 am

effataigus wrote:I can't imagine that Jojo didn't consider Parson grabbing the scroll from him and running off... so is *touching* the scroll a winning outcome for Jojo or a losing outcome for Parson?

Assuming Jojo's offer is genuine (and I think it is), if Parson grabs the scroll, then he's at least tempted to take the out. Which means, he'll inspect it, discover it is designed to return him, and at some point, get someone to cast it on him. (Sizemore would probably do it.)

I'm assuming Jojo's ultimate goal is to cause the downfall of GK, which destroyed his beloved Queen Bea and Unaroyal. To him, it doesn't matter if Jetstone survives, as long as, ultimately, GK croaks. And Jojo seems to understand that will only happen when Parson is out of the picture. So if Parson takes the scroll, he will most probably eventually use it. Maybe not this turn, maybe not before Jetstone's fall. But eventually. Heck, Parson may eventually use only as some sort of last minute escape, like his gambit with walking through the Portals to escape the volcano.

Jojo would love to cast it now, but I think it more likely that Parson will take the scroll and use it later. And I think Jojo will reluctantly be okay with that too....

There's two things that Jojo could do to make Parson take the scroll now:
Jojo could convince Parson that Erfworld is a lie, a game world created in his head, and that, as he sort of suspects, Parson is lying in a hospital bed somewhere, having had a stroke. If Parson believes that taking the scroll is Parson's subconscious offering Parson the choice to live vs. spending the rest of his life as a vegetable, he'll take the scroll right now.

Secondarily, Jojo can remind Parson of Ashna, the gamer girl he so clearly has a crush on. Parson is lonely. So very lonely. And he feels he's grown up a bit in Erfworld (even if it is an imaginary world of his own subconscious). Parson may jump at the chance to wake up and see if he has matured enough to get a real job and make himself worthy of girl like Ashna. Yes, he's going back to his crappy life and his crappy job, but he's going back to real people with free will who can choose to be with Parson. In that vein, real life is no longer a drudge for Parson. It's a challenge. And if he does begin to get his life back, the stakes are raised all the more when he's sucked back into Erfworld.
wrecan
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Occasional Sage » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:31 am

Zeku wrote:
atalex wrote:Why are so many people accepting at Jojo's claims about the scroll at face value? His entire school of magic is implicitly based around dishonest trickery


The same people believe that when Adam and Eve ate the fruit in the garden, this happened: "your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

So many religious people believe this stuff, even though this statement was uttered by the guy they call satan. People fool themselves, and they keep themselves fooled, when possible. (I'm hoping for a Styx reference, at some point.)


Except you know that's not what happened if you actually, oh I dunno, READ the story you're paraphrasing, right? But even if it WAS an accurate recount, with their instory knowledge it wouldn't have been as bad a decision.

And yeah, I think Styx is pretty likely.

Glome wrote:Well speaking words of wisdom, he should let it be, even if he longs for yesterday. Ultimately nothing is going to change Parson's world.


I see what you did there. Very nicely done!

effataigus wrote:I can't imagine that Jojo didn't consider Parson grabbing the scroll from him and running off... so is *touching* the scroll a winning outcome for Jojo or a losing outcome for Parson? Does a staff of suckage protect against magic that the user voluntarily contacts? Normally I'd say that plotamancy is protecting Parson, but Parson is a character in search of reasons to want to take Charlie down and he still has the thinkamancers as a buffer to save him if things go a little awry.


Jojo didn't say "...but you have to want to go" to bypass the Staff. He said it needs to be put down.
Avatar courtesy of Dr. Bath of GitP!
User avatar
Occasional Sage
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: SEA, WA, USA

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby splexis » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:02 am

"Carneymancy. It's... the magic of rigging the game."—Parson

In a way of thinking Parson's entire Erfworld history has been one of rigging the game... have we pinned what kind of magician Parson is at last?
splexis
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:46 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby kouhoutek » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:28 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Full-magic block? Well, that Staff of Suckage sure is a quite powerful item. One can only wondr why Wanda didn't take it to the field.


In a lot of magic systems, anti-magic items are a two way street...blocks spells cast *on* you and spells cast *by* you.
kouhoutek
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 1:32 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby kouhoutek » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:36 am

wrecan wrote:I'm assuming Jojo's ultimate goal is to cause the downfall of GK, which destroyed his beloved Queen Bea and Unaroyal.


Why assume Jojo is particularly loyal to Queen Bea? It's not like Sizemore or Maggie would go vendetta if His Toolness croaked.

Bea might may have extracted a vow not to work for non-royals, but my guess is he is doing what he is doing for his own reasons. He is a Carneymancer after all...he was probably *playing* the old queen.
kouhoutek
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 1:32 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Ambug666 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:42 am

Parson was a man who thought he worked for Kinkos
But he knew it couldn’t last.
Parson left his home and made it out to Erfworld.
Kicked Prince Ansom in his ass.

Get back, Get back.
Get back to where you once belonged.
Get back, Get back.
Get back to where you once belonged.
Get Back Parson !

JoJo was a ‘mancer and he was a carney.
But his side, it could not stay.
He got himself a scroll – I think it was from Charlie
To send Parson far away.

Get back, Get back.
Get back to where you once belonged.
Get back, Get back.
Get back to where you once belonged.
Get Back Jojo!
Ambug666
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 11:05 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:45 am

kouhoutek wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:Full-magic block? Well, that Staff of Suckage sure is a quite powerful item. One can only wondr why Wanda didn't take it to the field.


In a lot of magic systems, anti-magic items are a two way street...blocks spells cast *on* you and spells cast *by* you.


Eerr, from my gaming experience that'susually not the case. Most of the time, anti-magic doesn't block friendly magic, or at least doesn't stop you from using your own magic. Altough I'll admit it varies quite a lot, many times inside a single system.

However, would Hamster take the staff if it meant geting cut out from Maggie's thinkmancy's? I really don't believe so.
Formerly oslecamo2, unable to acess old acount.
oslecamo2_temp
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:08 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 63

Postby Radagast » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:19 am

Is it possible that there could also be something that happens based on a flat-out "No" from Parson? As in, he doesn't even take the scroll?
Radagast
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:25 am

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests