Book 2 – Page 64

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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Sieggy » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Huh. I just noticed that Marie is wearing a Phrygian cap (aka 'Cap of Freedom'). Since Signamancy abounds in Erf, I think we can take it that Marie is a velvet revolutionary . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby gazes_also » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:00 pm

Um... con accomplished?
Jo-jo was shilling for Janice?
Let's look at the end result, Parson has the scroll, Jo-jo escapes unharmed, Janice hustles Parson away from danger before he can ask too many questions.
Anybody seen the end of "The Sting" ?
I have a feeling Parson just got stung.

Edit: actually, re-reading it, it looks like Marie was running the show, maybe she wasn't as surprised by Parson entering TMK as she appeared.
Last edited by gazes_also on Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:00 pm

Angband wrote:Another reference nobody's caught so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Me_Lo ... e_on_Earth)


Huh? It's another Beatles song so i assume most of us caught it.


George Harrison wrote:
"Give Me Love (Give Me Peace On Earth)"

Give me love
Give me love
Give me peace on earth
Give me light
Give me life
Keep me free from birth
Give me hope
Help me cope, with this heavy load
Trying to, touch and reach you with,
heart and soul

OM M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M My Lord . . .

PLEASE take hold of my hand, that
I might understand you

Won't you please
Oh won't you

Give me love
Give me love
Give me peace on earth
Give me light
Give me life
Keep me free from birth
Give me hope
Help me cope, with this heavy load
Trying to, touch and reach you with,
heart and soul

OM M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M My Lord . . .

PLEASE take hold of my hand, that
I might understand you
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:06 pm

Sieggy wrote:Huh. I just noticed that Marie is wearing a Phrygian cap (aka 'Cap of Freedom'). Since Signamancy abounds in Erf, I think we can take it that Marie is a velvet revolutionary . . .


Liberty Cap. And there's nothing velvet about it. That's what the mob wore during France's "Reign of Terror". There's also one in the coat of arms of the US Army, possibly from the Sons of Liberty. Lift one high on a pole and it's a call to wholesale slaughter.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby rkyeun » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:07 pm

At the beginning of the story, Parson was controlled by Erfworld, and his curse words were booped out and his hands forced. At the end of the first book, he broke that and established his free will. As long as Parson played by Erfworld's rules, Erfworld could be blamed. It could be responsible for what was happening. Its people, its spells, its casters, its summoning, its duty, and its fate.
If Parson's not going to play by those rules, Erfworld isn't going to take responsibility. Parson has the scroll now. He has no excuse. If he stays now, it is by his will, his rules, his fate. And whatever he breaks is now entirely his responsibility.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Kreistor » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:24 pm

rkyeun wrote:At the beginning of the story, Parson was controlled by Erfworld, and his curse words were booped out and his hands forced. At the end of the first book, he broke that and established his free will. As long as Parson played by Erfworld's rules, Erfworld could be blamed. It could be responsible for what was happening. Its people, its spells, its casters, its summoning, its duty, and its fate.
If Parson's not going to play by those rules, Erfworld isn't going to take responsibility. Parson has the scroll now. He has no excuse. If he stays now, it is by his will, his rules, his fate. And whatever he breaks is now entirely his responsibility.


He is, however, still bound by natural magics. Amoung them is Duty. He may not be allowed to willingly allow a spell to return home be cast on him, if he thinks it isn't in the best interest of Stanley. While he may not want the job, and Stanley is a moron, everyone else in GK thinks Parson is best for the job, so that alone may prevent his free will on this matter.

What could occur is that Parson hands the scroll to Stanley and says, "That will send me home. If you ever hate me enough to Disband me, please use it so I can go back to the life you stole me from. I've earned that much."
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_1 Here you can find all comic pages written as text for convenient quoting.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Erfworld_Mechanics The starting page for accessing all known Erfworld "rules".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Angband » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:41 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:
Angband wrote:Another reference nobody's caught so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Me_Lo ... e_on_Earth)


Huh? It's another Beatles song so i assume most of us caught it.


Actually it's a George Harrison solo song, not a Beatles song, and I certainly didn't recognize it. And the lyrics...

George Harrison wrote:"Give Me Love (Give Me Peace On Earth)"

Give me love
Give me love
Give me peace on earth


...were actually the words that Janis said as she was casting her spell.

I went looking for evidence that Janis Joplin had ever covered this song, but she had died (1970) before this song was published (1974) so thats not possible.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Lamech » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:49 pm

Hmm... you know whats Ironic, in Erfworld if you throw a lockdown at someone and take them out of the battle on your turn, they can't get away. So after you win or whatever you can just capture them. If you toss a lock down when they attack, they can wander out of the hex. So when attacking hippiemancy is great, you take out units and get to keep them after the fight, but when your defending you take them out but they can retreat and come back just fine.
So Hippiemany is optimized for attacking. The peace casters are the ones who should be going on the offensives. Even funnier compare it to shockamancers; they have cool tricks to load up cities for defense.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby fjolnir » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:09 pm

We also don't know what offensive shockamancy exists beyond what we've seen. In fact, we have yet to see a side with a shockamancer on the offensive. Carpool might still be slightly behind the eight-ball with regards to transylvito.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby madmaw » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:28 pm

Third panel, "I'm standing by!" sounds a lot like something Charlie (well, his archons) has said in book 1 (when Parson conducts his first thinkagram to Charlie). In turn the copying of Charlie's manner of speech harks back to when Parson was trying to fool Ansom into thinking he had a deal with Charlie (in his first Thinkagram to Ansom).

Not sure what it means though
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby sleepymancer » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:33 pm

Xenon wrote:the peace symbol is actually the Futhark rune Algiz, inverted, in a circle. inverting a rune changes its meaning.


Sort of. Yes it is the Algiz rune, and if you imagine it as a person with his or her arms up that is the stance for praying, I believe even into the Christian period. Imagining the rune as a hand has been argued as a warding gesture, although to my knowledge that dates to third Reich propaganda and re-inventing of the Germanic past. So 'inverting' the meaning of a protection rune to make it mean peace would not work. However, that argument is negated as there is no evidence that inverted runes have inverted meanings - that is another twentieth century invention, I'm afraid. Now, badly drawn runes is a different issue... :lol:

As regards another comment that I haven't the quote for (getting two quotes is beyond me :p ), those rules need to go up another number each. The first rule fo carny club is we don't talk about Carny club...
sorry :p

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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Berserkas » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:45 pm

My reaction:

haha what
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby DoctorJest » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:22 pm

madmaw wrote:Third panel, "I'm standing by!" sounds a lot like something Charlie (well, his archons) has said in book 1 (when Parson conducts his first thinkagram to Charlie). In turn the copying of Charlie's manner of speech harks back to when Parson was trying to fool Ansom into thinking he had a deal with Charlie (in his first Thinkagram to Ansom).

Not sure what it means though


That's a windmill you're tilting at.

"I'm Standing By" in this case has to be taken in the context of the rest of what he's saying "Act now!" "Don't Delay". So it's like the TV ads that say "Act now! Operators are standing by!". Like this: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=187716633784

It has nothing to do with Charlie at all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:00 pm

Nice update, very nice indeed. Good dialogue, love the expressions on various faces - awww, isn't Sizemore cute when he is all protective and stuff. Hmmm - "I can prove it, but there is no time"... Just a sellers lie, or the truth? I wonder how he could prove the scroll would return Parson to his world without casting it first?

And gee, Marie looked pretty scared/concerned about the prospect of the spell being cast, and she doesn't even know what it is or the discussion that Jojo and Parson have just had. Or does she? Predictamancer and all that (or again not, maybe it is a variable, something she hasn't seen). Could it be good for Parson, bad for them? Bad for Parson, bad for them? Hmmm, makes me wonder how much Marie cares for/about Parson in all this. Sure, she has bigger things on her mind but still... I'm thinking her reaction might well prove that the scroll is the real deal.

It will probably be more revealing in the next update that deals with this scene - will Marie suggest Parson give the scroll to her? Or maybe the great minds? As much as it makes sense for Parson to have it, if it is real there would be others who might want it as a safe guard or leverage against Parson in future (and in turn it is something Parson might really want to get back in future). Alternatively if they pressed too hard it might put Parson on guard against them ("No, really, I think I'd like to hang onto it for now".)

And whales eh? Or Whale jokes, nice. I wonder who Parson could be a white whale for - Charlie? The Great Minds? Janis, Marie and co's Erf wrecking plot? Heh, and then punning on with Free Will-y. Anyway yay, Parson has his scroll of potential conflict and drama.

Beeskee wrote:And we see some of the real power of the hippymancers. Remember the "Even a grand abbie couldn't hope to quiet this battle" quote from way back when? Looks like hippymancers can stop units from attacking. Possibly even entire armies. That'd be a big deal in Erfworld.


I'm curious about what the spell actually did to Jojo (other then put some nice flowers in his hair) - he wasn't actually attacking, just trying to convince Parson to let him cast the spell. My thoughts are:

A. Robbed him of the motivation to continue (or did the circumstances, three other casters being there who want Parson to stick around do that)
B. Make him abandon his desire to work against the caster's desires (whose desire wouldn't be for Parson to return to his world, or at the very least whose desire wasn't to have a spell cast on Parson). Which is kind of a strong armed peace/love.
C. Or was there sinister motivations and he no longer felt able to continue with them? "It don't come easy"?

Of course if the latter they couldn't be too sinister since he had no problem giving the scroll.

The Minx wrote:BTW: the "great white whale" comment might also be a P. T. Barnum reference, rather than a Moby Dick reference. From the Wikipedia article on the American Museum:

The five story building also served great educational value. Aside from the different attractions, the Museum also promoted educational ends, including natural history in its menageries, aquarium (which featured a large white whale), and taxidermy exhibits; history in its paintings, wax figures, and memorabilia; and temperance reform and Shakespearean dramas in the above described "Lecture Room" or theater.[3]


And P. T. Barnum would certainly be a Carnymancer, more so than Herman Melville. Or it might be a bit of both. :?


That's a nice bit of info, and it could certainly fit (since that whale could be considered "earth bound", certainly not free like the other famous white whale), hmmm, it does indeed look like we could have a double meaning in Jojo words.

Wren wrote:Also, what would happen if a "free will" scroll were used on WANDA? =O


She would end up in Faq... :D
Last edited by Dancing Cthulhu on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby nth » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:09 pm

Weird angle in panel seven, and it strikes me as strange that we can see the sky and the outside world -- the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel -- but only BEYOND Janice and Marie.

In that, and in stopping Jojo, they are obstactles to Parson's freedom.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby throwingrocks » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:24 pm

Sizemore's reaction to Parson catching the scroll with his arms full of Staff and Sword?

Awesome.

/still prefer the old style of artwork even if the new art is superior.
//that frame, though... okay, yeah, deserves mad props.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Beeskee » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:28 pm

Since we know now that non-allied sides can see the item names of each other's equipment, I wonder if Parson's lack of the Sword of Ruthlessness will be noticed by the mages. I mean, what kind of warlord would not bring something like that to a party. Nevermind that he chucked it in the lava rather than be influenced in that way ever again.

Edit: reply to below so I don't spam the thread with replies: True. It just seemed oddly specific. If he can sense item stats in that manner instead of a specific name, then perhaps the casters will notice Parson's inferior sword. Unless GK happened to have another 3-part artifact lying around in their equipment room, after the main army had left to conquer a capital. :D If Jojo just happened to recognize a possibly common magical item, that means possibly some other casters also take note of the equipment carried by warlords, as well as the warlords themselves. Again there's an opportunity for, maybe, someone to notice it. I think Parson pitching it into the volcano is a major symbol. Maybe even 'signamancy' as Erfworlders consider it. The first book ENDED with that. That's gotta be worth something. Maybe not right this moment, but at some point in the future we might have this come up again. I think it would have to be a very special kind of warlord to throw an item like that away, for whatever reason. It could also be that the Sword of Ruthlessness had some very specific stats concerning casters, and which would concern casters. ;) We'll never know since it melted, unless it can respawn somehow.


The "I'm standing by" thing is a joke, it's making fun of the commercials where they say "operators are standing by, waiting to take your call."


I think Jojo WAS attacking, in the sense that he seemed to be using a bit of carnymancy on Parson through dialog. Probably a very minor form of attack, and I don't think it was a full on spell, but more like dance-fighting where the moves and lyrics blend into a form of combat. Jojo's speech changes right after he's hit, he slips into a more normal form of speech. Then he slips back again as he makes his egress. :D So it may be an inherent behavior as well, like that's just how carnymancers are. Janis definitely did something to him, that's for sure. "Stopped him from attacking" may be an incorrect phrasing on my part, in terms of Erfworld attacks and unit behavior. She definitely stopped him in some way tho, he was pressing the issue right up until then. Maybe "calmed him down" or "disinterested him in his current course of action"...

As usual for Erfworld, it could be interpreted a dozen different ways. I kinda like it that way, despite the endless frustration it leads to. :D Then again, we may get a clear answer next week, like with the item name thing from one of the recent updates.
Last edited by Beeskee on Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Ditto » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:56 pm

We still don't necessarily know that sides can see other sides' item names. He coudl have just as easily called Parson's other gear the Sword of Stabbing and the Gauntlet of Shredding, since it is perfectly apparent that's what you use those for. He's holding a staff which sucks up magic, and which makes Jojo sad. Hence, the Staff of Suckage.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:55 pm

DoctorJest wrote:"I'm Standing By" in this case has to be taken in the context of the rest of what he's saying "Act now!" "Don't Delay". So it's like the TV ads that say "Act now! Operators are standing by!". Like this: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=187716633784

It has nothing to do with Charlie at all.


Actually, I would read that as strong indication that he was working with Charlie. Sales is Charlie's thing. Charlie is their telecom guy - if there ever were peace. Parson may have even been the one to say so. In fact, more and more I'm beginning to suspect that Charlie will look like Billy Mays and/or the Wizard of Oz.


Second, I wanted to draw everyone's attention to panel 5. That's smoke rising off of Sizemore's shovel because he just bulleted through solid rock. Our Dirtmancer leapt in front of his chief warlord, who was personally outfitted with the best weapons he could find , and Sizemore is carrying a smoking shovel. This is coming from our former literally-crapped-on woobie pacifist non-confrontational magic nerd who didn't wear pants because he was always knee-deep in literal shit and yet, despite being a really hot commodity in the Magic Kingdom, was the humblest and nicest caster anyone knew. Jack just got supplanted as my favorite caster.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby drachefly » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:11 pm

It's possible that Jojo was (accurately) trying to protest that hippymancy was unnecessary because he wasn't there to fight, and it had no effects other than the cosmetic. His dismay and departure in the end can be explained by Sizemore's demeanor alone. Or it could have been the hippymancy. Hard to say when there are excessive reasons.
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