Book 2 – Page 65

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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby effataigus » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:59 am

Looks to me like this thread had exhausted its options by the fourth post:

Rob: New post.
Post 1: Jojo is lying.
Post 2: Visual (post-assassination *ahem*) references identified.
Post 3: Jojo is telling the truth and Marie is lying.

Of course, there's always room for meta-posts!

Great art as always, but this post did very little for beyond that. However, I think it is a sensible page for anyone who is reading the comic page by page without stopping to speculate for a week or two between each one.

It does seem increasingly strange that this segment was set up to be some kind of epic chase scene magic gauntlet, and Parson only gets 10 yards in before stopping for a powwow discussing fate, casters' origins, and hippiemancy powers.

Marie's language is really awkward in that last panel... so awkward that I wonder what Rob is getting at.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Raza » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:01 am

Spiky wrote:She's called him here to burn down the world. And she can see it just around the corner. That isn't exactly sexy.

Isn't it?

At least one or two Erfworld characters seem to disagree with you on that, as well.

the_tick_rules wrote:The caster schism deepens. Oh does anyone else wish the caster could have her text not be slanged, or however you want to phrase it.

I'm enjoying her accent, actually.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Thu » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:03 am

A couple of things.

Looking in the background on panels 6,7,and 8 it seems that Sizemore is sealing up the hole he made to let the casters down into the tunnel. I was under the impression from the previous strip that they had come in from the other end of the tunnel. It seems they opened a hole in the middle of the tunnel. That seems to indicate that sizemore (or perhaps Marie) can tell right where Parson is in the tunnel.

I recognize that this is some serious tinfoil hattery, but here goes :
I think that it is possible that Jojo was in Marie's employ and this whole encounter was designed by her in order to get the spell into Parson's hands. Marie, being a powerful predictamancer, uses powerful predictamancy to predict when Parson will come to the magic kingdom. She creates a scroll (or has it created for her) and in an ironic turn of events tricks Jojo into believing it will banish Parson if cast on him. That done she makes sure that Janis and Sizemore are with her and near the tunnel so that they can intervene before the spell is cast. Note in page 64 Marie is pretty emphatic that the spell not be cast and in the last panel of page 64 Marie only pokes here head around into the tunnel after Jojo has turned to leave.

This leaves a lot of questions up in the air, but it does seem to me slightly more likely than Charlie finding and breaking the coded message sent by Maggie so quickly or penetrating the temple of the GMtTA which was built specifically to keep Charlies prying eyes out.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby effataigus » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:09 am

Thu wrote:This leaves a lot of questions up in the air, but it does seem to me slightly more likely than Charlie finding and breaking the coded message sent by Maggie so quickly or penetrating the temple of the GMtTA which was built specifically to keep Charlies prying eyes out.


Maggie's coded message was to the thinkamancers. She must have sent a separate one with information that Parson was coming through the magic kingdom, or Jack and Wanda wouldn't have known to secure the JS portal room. I find it more likely that Charlescomm cracked that message, since Wanda shouldn't be able to access Maggie's G-string or decode any messages placed there.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Kreistor » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:28 am

Ytaker wrote:If 1, it's a similar class of spell. It may look like a return spell but actually return him to Charlie. Somehow. It may be possible to do foolamancy on a scroll.


First, we have no evidence that you can't do anything on a scroll. Second, we have not yet seen any teleportation in this game except the portals to MK. Third, Parson can't identify scrolls, so there's no need to keep the scroll in the same school of magic.

If 2, a much cheaper spell returns, say, just his head to the real world.


I don't see how you'd think that was any cheaper. It seems to me a specific effect like that might take more than one type of caster, and so be more expensive.

It might just be a shockamancy spell, but that would be very easy to detect I'd imagine, and rather dull.


Not by Parson. Jojo was going to be casting it if the plan worked, so it doesn't need to fool anyone except Parson. While Parson did wind up with it due to interference by Marie and Janis, that's only evidence of the plan's failure.

Poor idea. The scroll is going to be looked over by sizemore and Maggie probably,


No, it wasn't supposed to. If the plan failed and they got it, it doesn't have to hide as anything, since whaever it was, it wasn't going to be cast. Duty would prevent any GK Caster from sending a powerful Unit away. They can't cast it unless Stanley orders it, and they agree sending Parson back is best for GK. Maggie has gone so far as to cast Suggestion on her own Ruler to put Parson in charge, and Wanda is consulting him on every command decision, so we know those two think Parson is the best thing for GK right now.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Beeskee » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:30 am

What is the Omega symbol on Marie's hat a reference to?

The only thing that comes to mind is B5 Psi-Cop which doesn't seem to fit. (Also it'd be worn on her chest, and the badge would be a different shape.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Magentawolf » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:43 am

Aster Azul wrote:Argh TALKING

Run through the PORTAL, Parson!!!


This. Quick dicking around in that bloody tunnel and get on with it!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby korbenm » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:43 am

effataigus wrote:
Thu wrote:This leaves a lot of questions up in the air, but it does seem to me slightly more likely than Charlie finding and breaking the coded message sent by Maggie so quickly or penetrating the temple of the GMtTA which was built specifically to keep Charlies prying eyes out.


Maggie's coded message was to the thinkamancers. She must have sent a separate one with information that Parson was coming through the magic kingdom, or Jack and Wanda wouldn't have known to secure the JS portal room. I find it more likely that Charlescomm cracked that message, since Wanda shouldn't be able to access Maggie's G-string or decode any messages placed there.


That could have happend on this page: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -08-04.jpg
Jillian and Tramennis must wait for Charlie while Parson explains the Plan to Wanda through a Thinkagram
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby kouhoutek » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:47 am

The.Healing.Mage wrote:For some reason I find Marie to be really sinister.


I am with you on that, just look at her signamancy.

She is part Miss Cleo, a tawdry anything-for-a-buck fortune teller, a hair's breadth away from Carnymancy. I'm thinking she is running a long con with Jojo.

And she is part Voodoo Queen, on the surface a benign and helpful wise woman, but in the end she will betray you to the dark forces she serves. Any surprise she is infatuated with Wanda?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby badninja » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:21 am

Unusual update, why do I feel that Parson should not trust any caster that is not on his side; Jack, Wanda, Maggie, and Sizemore are on his side. Parson and Sizemore could both be being used by the predictamancer and for good measure TGMTTA. I do not trust any of these people because they all want something from Parson and basically wish to control Fate or deal with an issue. Just because Sizemore and Jannis say she is trustworthy does not mean she is. I see a major villain here just based off her reaction it does not jive with what she showed earlier something is amiss or about to be reviled.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Kreistor » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:34 am

Beeskee wrote:What is the Omega symbol on Marie's hat a reference to?

The only thing that comes to mind is B5 Psi-Cop which doesn't seem to fit. (Also it'd be worn on her chest, and the badge would be a different shape.)


Alpha and Omega. Beginning and End. First and Last letters in the Greek alphabet. Marie focuses on the future, the end, and presumably her end is Peace on Erf. Not-so-obscure reference to another effort to promote Peace on Earth by someone calling himself Alpha and Omega.

Could also be a slightly modified Libra, but I don't think so.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby atteSmythe » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:42 am

Thu wrote:Looking in the background on panels 6,7,and 8 it seems that Sizemore is sealing up the hole he made to let the casters down into the tunnel. I was under the impression from the previous strip that they had come in from the other end of the tunnel. It seems they opened a hole in the middle of the tunnel. That seems to indicate that sizemore (or perhaps Marie) can tell right where Parson is in the tunnel.

Good catch! I didn't notice him sealing it back up. Or rather, I caught some of the 'spell sparkle,' but didn't realize what it was doing.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:02 am

"Marie the True". Uh-huh. Sure.

I wonder what part she'll end up playing, what with Fate, and fighting it, being a theme, indeed she does look sinister at times. What has she seen, what does she know, and for all her power could she foresee her own demise?

Well, and so we go, onwards. Parson's safe, for now, having received a fate's warning against the assassin, and should resume running silent running deep towards Spacerock. He'd better be quick or be dead though, because we are about to find out that weekend warrior Slately has turned into quite the trooper with Ace Hardware's help and just made the invaders run for the hills.

On predictamancers being sinister: hm? Well, the predictamancers that became cliched were those that say "the prophesy says that some hero will rise and rid us of the tyrant, and said hero will be called Engelbert Humperdink and be born at 22 Acacia avenue".

But apart from that, the cliched prophets do nothing, so they are either benign or neutral.

OTOH, if prophets (actual seers, not mere knowers of the future because they heard another seer- that's different) are active agents, I don't know, are they usually evil? Or good? Heck, how often are future-seeing characters active agents in a plot? I always thought such characters more as plot devices.

Kreistor: good point on what the scroll actually does. I also wonder whether, if Charlie wanted Parson out of the picture, a simple Kill scroll would've been sufficient and cheaper than an unsummon one. Probably. We don't know how expensive an unsummon is.

And if you want to shell out bucks, would some kind of Conveyance/Teleport scroll be possible? That way you also get Parson, who Charlie thought would be a bonus to have, along with the bracer.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Hanyo » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:46 am

Here's the link to the text update with Marie in it again:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2010-12-24.png

Still, as much as I'm convinced now that Marie is not working for anyone's interests but her own ("peace on Erf" be damned), I'm not sure if I like her as the main protagonist. Charlie the puppetmaster is more compelling to me, personally, but I guess that I'll be happy with whatever Rob decides to do as long as it's told well.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby kouhoutek » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:48 am

mmcc wrote:What does "Rodda then surrendah to your side"? Who surrendered what now?


This threw me for a minute, until I figured out Rodda = Rather.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby kouhoutek » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:55 am

Kreistor wrote:Oh, c'mon... a Carnymancer has a spell to cancel a 500000 schmucker spell? Riiiight. Why spend huge cash when all you need is a shockamancy spell to kill him and a little subterfuge to get him to take the spell willingly?

I can't believe anyone thinks that spell was going to do what Jojo claimed, except in the loosest, most market spun sense of the words.


You are assumming "back where you belong" is home. It could mean a lot of things.

Perhaps Charlie commissioned the summoning spell, and Wanda/Marie/GMTTA stole it...that would mean "back where you belong" equals "working for Charlie".

Yes, I know that is unlikely, but it is one of many possible interpretations. Jojo was telling the truth, but probably not in a way anyone expects.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby name lips » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:57 am

Clever, so clever...

We don't know if Jojo was lying.

What we DO know is that he got Parson to actually consider allowing an unknown caster to cast an unknown spell on him. With little more than a 30 second sales pitch.

Carnymancy indeed... I wouldn't be too hard on Parson not being too smart... it's obvious to me that this is part of the magic of carnymancy. I've felt it myself -- with just $5 in my pocket, somehow they'll convince me to play two rounds of a $2 game, and throw in an extra $1 game just to take the rest of my money -- when there weren't even any prizes I wanted anyway. Something about the voice, the cadence, the game looking so easy, why not give it a shot... And that's without magical augmentation. I have no doubt that Jojo was using actual magic to influence Parson's decision-making.

One way or another, that spell would have taken Parson out of the game. Sent back to his world, croaked, it doesn't matter much to Erfworlders -- either way, he's gone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby splexis » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:32 pm

Kreistor wrote:Oh, c'mon... a Carnymancer has a spell to cancel a 500000 schmucker spell? Riiiight. Why spend huge cash when all you need is a shockamancy spell to kill him and a little subterfuge to get him to take the spell willingly?

I can't believe anyone thinks that spell was going to do what Jojo claimed, except in the loosest, most market spun sense of the words.


While I do not necessarily disagree with our assessment of Jojo's motives, I do not at all agree that the counterspell to a 500000 schmucker spell must be in the same price range.

The Summon Perfect Warlord spell was a difficult spell to cast, perhaps what made that difficult (crossing universes) also makes the reverse easy. Is there a silver bungee cord connecting Parson to Stupidworld, and is it stretched taut? Stretching to tighten (i.e. pulling Parson to Erfworld) might take far more energy than letting him return to Stupidworld (i.e. letting the 'astral bungee' snap back).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby splexis » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:36 pm

kouhoutek wrote:[quote="The.Healing.Mage]For some reason I find Marie to be really sinister.[/quote]

I am with you on that, just look at her signamancy.

And she is part Voodoo Queen, on the surface a benign and helpful wise woman, but in the end she will betray you to the dark forces she serves.[/quote]


"Dark forces?" Is that your description of people who who beliefs other than your own? While you are at it, why don't you just throw 'being black' into the signamancy hooper of sinistrosity?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 65

Postby Hanyo » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:22 pm

kouhoutek wrote:
Perhaps Charlie commissioned the summoning spell, and Wanda/Marie/GMTTA stole it...that would mean "back where you belong" equals "working for Charlie".

Yes, I know that is unlikely, but it is one of many possible interpretations. Jojo was telling the truth, but probably not in a way anyone expects.


That's a clever thought, but it's immediately disproved by the link I posted earlier. The scroll was the result of a lot of string pulling by Janis on Marie's behalf, with at least one of the casters in the link-up being mentioned by name (Hubble, the lookamancer).
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