Book 2 – Page 66

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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Kreistor » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:06 pm

walpurgisborn wrote:Thinking instead that it might be Thurgood Marshall


Rob does use living people (Leonard Nimoy, Sammy Hagar), but seems to prefer to use dead people where possible. So I'll agree with Marshall over Thomas.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Freemage » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:06 pm

atalex wrote:
Decorus wrote:You mean Clarence Thomas the guy who is facing disbarment over ethics violations?


To my knowledge, Thomas is not facing disbarment or any other penalty. A quirk of the law places the Supreme Court above the judicial body that monitors and punishes ethical transgressions by judges, and the only way to remove a Justice is through impeachment. Given the current make up of the U.S. Senate, I feel confident in saying that if Clarence Thomas (the most conservative member of the Court) were convicted of murdering orphans in a coke-fueled spree killing, the Republicans would filibuster any attempt to impeach him in favor of letting him rule on opinions from the comfort of his prison cell.


I believe (though IANAL) that Thomas could be disbarred without being removed from the SCOTUS--there's actually no requirement for SCOTUS judges to be judges, or even lawyers, before being appointed to the Court. (In fact, there's occasionally been a call for someone with some other form of training--often scientific--to be appointed to one of the seats, to provide the Court with a bit more ability to evaluate technical issues.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Housellama » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:24 pm

Oh, Maggie is going to totally lose her boop when she hears about this. She's going to go spare. This is NOT what she intended, not at all, and she's going to blow up when she hears that Issac has gone off the reservation like this.

I firmly believe that Maggie thought that the GMTTA would help Parson through the Portal. I think that she didn't count on Issac having other ideas. If she honestly believed that the Great Minds would hijack Parson, she would not have sent him that portal in the first place. She takes her Duty very seriously, and beyond that is utterly devoted to Parson. There's going to be hell to pay when this gets back to her.

As for Parson going through them... He may be a Warlord with a few stacked with him, but there is at least one, and I'm willing to bet multiple Master class Thinkamancers in that stack. Maggie isn't, and she did a considerable amount of damage during the battle for Gobwin Knob, and these guys are bigger than her. They are also full of juice and prepared. It would be messy. In a way that Parson absolutely cannot afford. Maybe he could get through portal, but there's no telling what kind of spells he'd get hit with first, and what condition he'd be in when he reached the other side.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Saladman » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:26 pm

Does anyone, even with serious disagreements with Clarence Thomas, really think he's not an intelligent man? The two categories, conservative and intelligent, aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure why you're so proud to make what's not just a partisan shot on a non-political board, but a cheap, stupid partisan shot.

I am curious what angle Rob's pursuing by choosing him. Any Justice is likely to have his detractors. I wonder whether Thomas was a somewhat random choice, or deliberate. I'm somewhat open to the Thurgood Marshall idea, except I think the tie weights it towards Thomas.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Hanyo » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:32 pm

Saladman wrote:Does anyone, even with serious disagreements with Clarence Thomas, really think he's not an intelligent man? The two categories, conservative and intelligent, aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure why you're so proud to make what's not just a partisan shot on a non-political board, but a cheap, stupid partisan shot.

I am curious what angle Rob's pursuing by choosing him. Any Justice is likely to have his detractors. I wonder whether Thomas was a somewhat random choice, or deliberate. I'm somewhat open to the Thurgood Marshall idea, except I think the tie weights it towards Thomas.


He could be another combo, like Jeftichew/George and Isaac/Carl Sagan.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby multilis » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:47 pm

"thomas... then I will henceforth assume that the Great Minds are the real bad guys."

If one of the casters/warlords was Bill Clinton, would you feel the same? (Other political side also accused of form of intentional misleading)

I suspect many in magic kingdom are not pure "good" or "bad", but people with flaws just like Ansom was portrayed in book 1, including his desire to do "good" and strong prejudices.

Villains, we only really know one for nearly sure at moment, Wanda. (in comic and outside comic hints of evil by Rob) And even Darth Vader can change for better. A few in GK who admired Wanda doing "evil", and picked on Bogroll so far fit classic evil minion mold.
...

If in real life you assume people are stupid/evil or good/intelligent based only on partisan or religious/athiest type reasons, that seems a form of strong prejudice similar to hating someone because they have black skin. Eg Clinton and Bush both had iraq bombed for WMD, Bush and Obama have so far done many very similar things in their presidency, yet people have judge them extremely differently even when each side does nearly same action

Bush/Obmaa examples: afghan war - (compare mass protests "about oil"), nuke reduction treaties, no child left behind/Medicare, drones in pakistan, military tribunals, Guantanamo bay, having supposedly conflicting ties to halliburton/warren buffet... yet each partisan political side only sees guy on other side as "evil" or "stupid".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Freemage » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:54 pm

Saladman wrote:Does anyone, even with serious disagreements with Clarence Thomas, really think he's not an intelligent man? The two categories, conservative and intelligent, aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure why you're so proud to make what's not just a partisan shot on a non-political board, but a cheap, stupid partisan shot.

I am curious what angle Rob's pursuing by choosing him. Any Justice is likely to have his detractors. I wonder whether Thomas was a somewhat random choice, or deliberate. I'm somewhat open to the Thurgood Marshall idea, except I think the tie weights it towards Thomas.


Thomas is intelligent on the scale of "general humanity" (as you note, you don't get to be on the SCOTUS without some degree of intelligence)--but he's definitely been underwhelming when compared to his fellow justices, be they liberal or conservative. His written opinions, in particular, mostly range from the terrible to the delusional, though they occasionally aspire to the merely obvious and banal. He's also notorious for being Scalia's muppet--if there's a 7/2 split, it's almost always Scalia and Thomas on the "2" side. That makes him a very odd choice for the Pro-Free Will faction.

And yes, if it's Thomas, I'm a bit curious about how Rob meant it, as well. I'd prefer Marshall for the reason you mention--the largely apolitical nature of the strip right now could be compromised by including such a controversial and divisive figure; I'd say the same about including an Obama character, regardless of how he was used.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:57 pm

atteSmythe wrote:Yeah, Marie's being waaaay too heavy-handed here. I think she's going to have to quickly come to terms with the idea that if Parson's going to be her tool, he's not going to be her puppet.

This.

If i ever find myself writing a screenplay, i'm stealing that line.

Mysterious Government Contact: Look, as important as it is to accomplish this mission, it's also imnportant that you do it the right way!

Maverick Action Hero: No, you look. If i'm going to be your tool, i'm not going to be your puppet!
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:00 pm

karln wrote:
Dr Pepper wrote:8. I can't place the man in the suit but i have a nagging feeling he's a cartoon character and one that would not be normally be cast as an intellectual.

I don't know why it would be him, but it looks to me very much like Peter Dickinson as he appeared in the movie 'Flight of Dragons': http://www.planete-jeunesse.com/images/0197/VolDesDragons07.jpg

Earlier in the movie he appeared in a brown suit that I think looked somewhat like the one in the comic, but annoyingly I can't find any images online of him in that outfit.

FWIW the character was a scientist from the 1980s with in interest in fairy tales, and in the movie he worked out scientific explanations for the dragons' powers of flight and fire-breathing.


Yeah that was a kludge of two books. The first was "Flight of Dragons" and was a pseudo technical paper. But it didn't have plot, so for the cartoon they adapted "The Dragon and the George" by Gordon R Dickson.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:06 pm

Maggie?




You got some splainin' to do!
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby fjolnir » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:24 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:Maggie?




You got some splainin' to do!

indeed.

Also, if the thinkamancy temple does not turn out to be a massive tinfoil hat (or at least foil lined) I will be disappointed...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby walpurgisborn » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:30 pm

multilis wrote:
If one of the casters/warlords was Bill Clinton, would you feel the same? (Other political side also accused of form of intentional misleading)

If it was Bill, I'd figure him for a Naughtymancer ;-). Either way, no one, right or left would argue that Clinton was a stupid man, but I think it's clear on the left and right that he wasn't always an honest man, or a particularly righteous man. Still, I'd be surprised if you could point to someone reputable who would claim that Clinton was "evil".

multilis wrote:If in real life you assume people are stupid/evil or good/intelligent based only on partisan or religious/athiest type reasons, that seems a form of strong prejudice similar to hating someone because they have black skin. Eg Clinton and Bush both had iraq bombed for WMD, Bush and Obama have so far done many very similar things in their presidency, yet people have judge them extremely differently even when each side does nearly same action

First, I agree that blanket declarations that any particular side is evil/stupid are prejudicial. There are many intelligent, considerate people on either side of the aisle or debate. That being said, there is a major difference between judging a person based on strongly held opinions, and judging people by the color of their skin. False equivalency is a fallacy and colors the entirety of your argument.

multilis wrote:Bush/Obmaa examples: afghan war - (compare mass protests "about oil"), nuke reduction treaties, no child left behind/Medicare, drones in pakistan, military tribunals, Guantanamo bay, having supposedly conflicting ties to halliburton/warren buffet... yet each partisan political side only sees guy on other side as "evil" or "stupid".


And this is again a cae of false equivalence. Obama didn't start a war in Afghanistan, a better option would be to argue that he started a war in Libya. Bush didn't engage in any nuclear reduction treaties of note, and nearly caused issues with the Russian Federation by pushing to create a missile shield in former Soviet nations. The use of military tribunals and the failed closing of Gitmo are directly related to Congressional actions which have tied the President's hand, and finally, the difference between Halliburton and Warren Buffet is Warren Buffet never laid faulty electrical work which killed US soldiers, nor held a rape victim hostage, lost collected evidence of her assualt, and then tried to hide behind a contract when she sued. OTOH, I don't think Bush really had any strong ties to Halliburton in the first place, I believe that was entirely Dick Cheney. And I definitely don't believe that man was stupid...

Either way, I seriously doubt Bush was evil or stupid, although I do think he had a flawed sense of history, a poor understanding of economics, a poor judge of character, and a tendency to act unilaterally when he should be building a consensus. Likewise, I don't believe Obama is evil or stupid either, I feel he merely has a weak understanding of economics, a poor judge of character, and a tendency to try to build consensus when he should act unilaterally.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:01 pm

EarwaxRock wrote:Has there been any indication so far that time works any differently in the MK (like, say, Narnia)?

The summer updates established some of the time flow rules: http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE029_JoeZuniga_DrunkTime.jpg
It's not certain, but it's very likely, since time passes differently in each hex, and the MK is likely treated as it's own hex.
It is possible that different rules apply to the MK, but based on the 'default' rules of time, Parson may very well be able to spend hours in discussion in the MK, and have only seconds pass in Jetstone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby multilis » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:46 pm

walpurgisborn wrote:And this is again a cae of false equivalence. Obama didn't start a war in Afghanistan, a better option would be to argue that he started a war in Libya. Bush didn't engage in any nuclear reduction treaties of note, and nearly caused issues with the Russian Federation by pushing to create a missile shield in former Soviet nations. The use of military tribunals and the failed closing of Gitmo are directly related to Congressional actions which have tied the President's hand, and finally, the difference between Halliburton and Warren Buffet is Warren Buffet never laid faulty electrical work which killed US soldiers, nor held a rape victim hostage, lost collected evidence of her assualt, and then tried to hide behind a contract when she sued. OTOH, I don't think Bush really had any strong ties to Halliburton in the first place, I believe that was entirely Dick Cheney. And I definitely don't believe that man was stupid....

Obama did surge in afghanistan and doubling in pakistan, argument was made 10 years earlier in mass protests across canada and US, that war in afghanistan was over oil or illegal. Yes the parallel does extend to Libya in the "over oil", or "illegal" part of protests, and the "starting of war", there are so many examples, I didn't want to go too long.

"Bush didn't engage in any nuclear reduction treaties of note" - The Bush/Putin nuke reduction treaty was of greater % than the Obama one as far as I can calculate and happened in nearly exact same time in presidency. example: http://www.ploughshares.ca/content/bush ... ion-treaty

"The use of military tribunals and the failed closing of Gitmo are directly related to Congressional actions which have tied the President's hand" - for 2 years Obama's political side had majority in all 3 branches of US government, and the pre-election talk from that entire party was quite clear. Matter is not simple, one trial was estimated to cost 40 million dollars if done non tribunal style, other countries don't want the prisoners, there are known cases of US prisoners being converted to terrorists by existing terrorists in US jails, etc.

"difference between Halliburton and Warren Buffet is Warren Buffet never" - much of argument against the political is based on "profit" type link and kickbacks.... eg Buffet financing Obama to become president, then making investments that depended on bailout, then openly advising Obama on doing bailout.
Goldman Sachs is accused of of various types of "evil" such as helping Greece join Euro currency and ring up deficit by phony bookkeeping in way that may help collapse europe's economy now. Buffet bought a 10% share of Goldman Sachs. Possible many people in Greece will end up dead before this is all over, and companies similar to Goldman Sachs seem to continue to make a profit as a result.

...

Parson has been portrayed as asking whether any side is really good or evil, noting that they often do much the same thing.

Just as Thomas may be controversial, if the bikini blonde is Pamela Anderson that may also be controversial including PETA spokesperson, and support for Obama. I don't see a problem with that, especially if the characters simply behave similar to their real life versions and leave judgment of them up to the readers.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby atalex » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:18 pm

Saladman wrote:Does anyone, even with serious disagreements with Clarence Thomas, really think he's not an intelligent man? The two categories, conservative and intelligent, aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm not sure why you're so proud to make what's not just a partisan shot on a non-political board, but a cheap, stupid partisan shot.


I never said he was stupid, just corrupt. Speaking as an attorney, he's just not someone I'd associate with thinkamancers. Honestly, speaking as an attorney, there are very few well known judges of any kind I'd associate with thinkamancers. For all the superstitious awe most people have of them, a federal judge, at the end of the day, is just a lawyer who knows a Senator, and a Supreme Court Justice is a judge who knows the President's chief of staff. Stupid people don't graduate Harvard law (although his grades were middling, IIRC), but Thomas is best known for his practice of never asking questions in oral arguments, and I do not associate a studied lack of inquisitiveness with being an icon of intellectualism (as Isaac Newton, Carl Sagan, and Spock all are). Also, his opinions are often viewed as results-oriented rather than actually reasoned out, and frankly, I just don't think he's as good a writer as a lot of other Justices.

Case in point: I genuinely consider Antonin Scalia to be EVIL. But I wouldn't be nearly as surprised to see him among the Great Thinkers as I am Thomas because I think Scalia is an Evil Genius. Thomas? Evil Smart Guy.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby zilfallon » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:38 pm

Brucester wrote:Much as I enjoy this webcomic, I would very much like to see Parson go through that portal in the very near future.

Pretty please.


Well it isn't going to happen in near future. Because we'll see Maggie explaining stuff, Isaac insisting on keeping Parson there, Parson and Marie trying to get out and hit the portal, and some loads of action in Spacerock + some text updates about some people's inner thoughts in MK and in Spacerock (probably ossomer being emo, at least once)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby atalex » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:42 pm

zilfallon wrote:
Brucester wrote:Much as I enjoy this webcomic, I would very much like to see Parson go through that portal in the very near future.

Pretty please.


Well it isn't going to happen in near future. Because we'll see Maggie explaining stuff, Isaac insisting on keeping Parson there, Parson and Marie trying to get out and hit the portal, and some loads of action in Spacerock + some text updates about some people's inner thoughts in MK and in Spacerock (probably ossomer being emo, at least once)


Also, to be honest, I kinda want Parson to go to the Temple of Thinkamancy to see all the playground equipment. As some one else mentioned way back when that was introduced, I'd love to see Isaac's reaction to Parson saying "Yeah, we have this on my world. The weakest and least developed of our species use them for amusement."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby junovalkyrie » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:48 pm

Does the perspective on the third-to-last panel seem a bit off to anyone else? Sizemore, in particular, looks like he's coming through the ground rather than the stairs (and while that would be perfectly within his capabilities, there's no reason for him to do so).

Freemage wrote:He's also notorious for being Scalia's muppet--if there's a 7/2 split, it's almost always Scalia and Thomas on the "2" side. That makes him a very odd choice for the Pro-Free Will faction.


On the other hand, there's this:

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas faced down some of his harshest critics yesterday, telling the nation's largest organization of black lawyers that he will not succumb to pressure to alter his conservative legal views even if it means being branded a traitor to his race.

In an address before the National Bar Association, the court's lone African-American justice said he will not succumb to pressure to "follow the prescription assigned to blacks" and that those who expect him to think a certain way simply because of his race are denying his "humanity" and want him to be "an intellectual slave."

Thomas' appearance marked the first time he has so squarely confronted his critics and demonstrated his continued resolve to take on his detractors even in the face of criticism that often takes on a scathing, personal tone.

In a powerful, emotional speech, Thomas appealed for greater tolerance of differing views among black Americans and said he felt deep pain at being the target of condemnation and rejection by members of his own race.

He said he had not come to defend his views, "but rather to assert my right to think for myself, to refuse to have my ideas assigned to me as if I were an intellectual slave because I'm black."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:53 pm

Interesting. Wheels within wheels. A mystery wrapped in an enigma.

All I can say is, there better be a panel next page with a random 'mancer walking up and saying, "Hey, that's the warlord we were warned about," and then Isaac saying, "This is not the warlord you're looking for." POOF.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Kreistor » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:06 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:All I can say is, there better be a panel next page with a random 'mancer walking up and saying, "Hey, that's the warlord we were warned about," and then Isaac saying, "This is not the warlord you're looking for." POOF.


Thinkagrams. You wanna bet against everyone in the region not having been told, "The GMTTA has Parson Gotti under our protection." by Thinkagram? Master class has to be worth something.
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