Book 2 – Page 66

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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Lamech » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:10 pm

Kreistor wrote:So, another nail in the Jojo+Charlie conspiracy. Now the scroll doesn't even need Charlie's financial backing. Jojo might have made it himself. Too bad we don't have the scroll making mechanic, or we might put this one to rest entirely.

And we have yet another confirmation that Parson has a reason to fear being in the MK itself, without his proposed charge into Spacerock.
Not really. At all. The scroll was never in question. For crying out loud Wanda had stashes of the things. Him having one scroll is expected on the basis of him being a caster. The thing he shouldn't have is the knowledge of Parson being a summon, and his trip through the MK. More to the point why is he bothering with a scroll? It is presumably harder than simply casting the spell directly (otherwise we would see a lot more scrolls since casters could essentially save juice between turns), so why would Jojo use a scroll he made? It could have been made by a better Carnymancer, a carny-think link, or spent his juice on some big spell. The last two options would go great with the "working with Charlie theory". (And the first option wouldn't mean much since casters do build up stashes of scrolls.)
Raw speculation:

I suspect the GMTTA want Parson to step up the timetable of taking out CHarlie. He's a big problem for the GMTTA and the Conspiracy. They may merely be filling Parson in on his activities against GK, which Parson is currently unaware of.

I could have sworn that there was an actress in the late 90's, early 00's that was also a physicist. Google is failing me though, since it only brings up Anne Hathaway and Sarah Jessica Parker as candidates, but neither are blonde.

[/quote]Seems likely that they want the time table moved up. And they may be trying to fill Parson in on whatever. Although if I wanted to stage an attack on Charlie I would deck out a bunch of yellow dwagons with Staff of Suckage type items, and bomb him into nothingness. Charlie has a ton of golems and traps and a crap ton of mini casters? Couldn't think of a better way to pull it off. Although if they do want the time line on Charlie stepped up I wonder if Parson will ask them to do there share of anti-Charlie work?

zilfallon wrote:Well it isn't going to happen in near future. Because we'll see Maggie explaining stuff, Isaac insisting on keeping Parson there, Parson and Marie trying to get out and hit the portal, and some loads of action in Spacerock + some text updates about some people's inner thoughts in MK and in Spacerock (probably ossomer being emo, at least once)
Dude the battle will be finished by the time Parson is done. The tower is about to fall. They don't need Parson. Wanda accidentally won this by having the dwagons not be useless.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby wykstrad » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:49 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
Hopefully Raz pops up as a Thinkamancer


YES.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Tachyon » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:03 pm

Lamech wrote:
Kreistor wrote:So, another nail in the Jojo+Charlie conspiracy. Now the scroll doesn't even need Charlie's financial backing. Jojo might have made it himself. Too bad we don't have the scroll making mechanic, or we might put this one to rest entirely.

And we have yet another confirmation that Parson has a reason to fear being in the MK itself, without his proposed charge into Spacerock.
Not really. At all. The scroll was never in question. For crying out loud Wanda had stashes of the things. Him having one scroll is expected on the basis of him being a caster. The thing he shouldn't have is the knowledge of Parson being a summon, and his trip through the MK. More to the point why is he bothering with a scroll? It is presumably harder than simply casting the spell directly (otherwise we would see a lot more scrolls since casters could essentially save juice between turns), so why would Jojo use a scroll he made? It could have been made by a better Carnymancer, a carny-think link, or spent his juice on some big spell. The last two options would go great with the "working with Charlie theory". (And the first option wouldn't mean much since casters do build up stashes of scrolls.)

Uh. Wanda had stashes of the things, yes. They got used, too, in battle(s) where they were needed (albeit not necessarily all by her).

The reason you bother with a scroll is that you don't use your own Juice; the scroll contains Juice, and a spell it is to be used for, leaving you with more options for what you can do and how much you can cast during (and off) your turn. Wanda had stashes because she expected to need her own Juice for other things, and they were out of her discipline but within her power to cast.

Sorry, I'm gonna hafta agree with Kreistor.

Plus:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png wrote:Did Charlie have casters? None, as units of Charlescomm. He would frequently hire casters from the Magic Kingdom for specific work. He had an excellent reputation as an employer there.

We can see that Charlie wouldn't be risking his reputation as an employer in the MK by hiring a caster from the MK to attack someone in the MK.

Granted, there are divisions within the MK who would like to see Parson croak.
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... anding.jpg wrote:""Interesting," said Parson. And it was. But something Sizemore had said interested him more. "Where does a 'big debate' like that even happen? In the Magic Kingdom?"

"Oh yes," said Sizemore knowingly. "The Casters who live there have endless arguments about things like that. Philosophy. Metaphysics. Nature. I go there when I can, to hear the great thinkers...and the not-so-great ones." He smiled.

Parson looked at a nearby red dwagon as it huffed and banked into a slow, powerful turn. "Maybe I should go back there. Talk to some people."

Maggie shook her head and swallowed. "I wouldn't, Lord," she warned. "When I went to call on Ken, I found they have our portal under guard. There are many in the Magic Kingdom who believe you ought to have been croaked, or at least captured."

Sizemore nodded at this. "Yes. Janis put you under her protection. But you needed to get out of there as soon as you could."


But...:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png wrote:I have spent most of the treasury and gems promoting all garrison units to full and sending them out of the city. My casters' names are Vanna, a Turnamancer, Jeftichew, a Carnymancer, Bowie, a Changemancer, and Spenser, a Findamancer. I made them pledge only to work for Royal sides, and sent them to the Magic Kingdom. Please employ them if you can.

A message to Don King to employ Jeftichew, if possible. HMMM.
And also, evidence that Queen Bea ordered all of her casters to work only for Royal sides. Charlie is not Royal.
Final. Nail. In coffin.

Parson is the only unit we know of who can directly defy an order from their Ruler without disbanding. Queen Bea is no longer alive, but... Jojo is still alive. And it was an order.
Last edited by Tachyon on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:15 pm

zilfallon wrote:
Brucester wrote:Much as I enjoy this webcomic, I would very much like to see Parson go through that portal in the very near future.

Pretty please.


Well it isn't going to happen in near future. Because we'll see Maggie explaining stuff, Isaac insisting on keeping Parson there,



Naw, Issac just wants to explain about Charlie, without Charlie being able to overhear. Once done, Issac will escort Parson back to the Spacerock portal. There might be disagreement or loud shouting, but Parson will go to Spackrock. He'll arrive rather late though, and Slately will do a lot of damage while Wanda hangs out in the portal room waiting. Ossomer is also not being commanded right now, Paron's too busy. Ossomer will refuse to stack up, and Parson will catch heck from Stanley for not minding his warlord duties.

We are, I'm guessing at least three pages away from Parson walking through that portal. It could be more, say 6 - 10 pages.
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby warriortribble » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:53 pm

It would be a rather convoluted way to talk about Charlie when Issac could've had Maggie tell Parson everything he needs to know. Not to mention in the first book, all the Thinkamancers were against telling Parson about Charlie.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Lamech » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:12 pm

Tachyon wrote:Uh. Wanda had stashes of the things, yes. They got used, too, in battle(s) where they were needed (albeit not necessarily all by her).

The reason you bother with a scroll is that you don't use your own Juice; the scroll contains Juice, and a spell it is to be used for, leaving you with more options for what you can do and how much you can cast during (and off) your turn. Wanda had stashes because she expected to need her own Juice for other things, and they were out of her discipline but within her power to cast.

Sorry, I'm gonna hafta agree with Kreistor.
And this has what to do with the claim that where he got the scroll was never part of, and isn't important too, the argument that Charlie is somehow behind this? Or are you saying scrolls are easier to make than casting a spell directly?

We can see that Charlie wouldn't be risking his reputation as an employer in the MK by hiring a caster from the MK to attack someone in the MK.
Dude, Jojo never attacked Parson. He asked to be allowed to do something for Parson. What he did was the equivalent of saying "Want a free ride home?" Well since he is a stray Carnymancer more of a guy in a windowless van saying "Want a free ride home?" but still...
But...:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png wrote:I have spent most of the treasury and gems promoting all garrison units to full and sending them out of the city. My casters' names are Vanna, a Turnamancer, Jeftichew, a Carnymancer, Bowie, a Changemancer, and Spenser, a Findamancer. I made them pledge only to work for Royal sides, and sent them to the Magic Kingdom. Please employ them if you can.

A message to Don King to employ Jeftichew, if possible. HMMM.
And also, evidence that Queen Bea ordered all of her casters to work only for Royal sides. Charlie is not Royal.
Final. Nail. In coffin.

Parson is the only unit we know of who can directly defy an order from their Ruler without disbanding. Queen Bea is no longer alive, but... Jojo is still alive. And it was an order.
No. Or are you going to argue that Charlie wasn't behind Vanna and Kingworld? Now Jojo may not be officially working for Charlie. Charlie could have given him free advice, charged Jojo for advice, this could be a mutual plan, ect. Vanna was able to work with Charlie just fine, Jojo could easily do the same.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Vreejack » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:33 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
Lemarc wrote:Marie doesn't seem to recognise sarcasm. I get the impression she thinks she's smarter than she is.
Well, this is Erfworld, not real world - even the smartest characters can miss the complexities in Parson speak. I found it a bit creepy - "that's the spirit".
She doesn't recognize the incongruity of her own words, either. She is just stomping along through life in pursuit of her dream with barely a glance around her. Oops, looks like the thinkamancers surprised her.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:do you mean the judge? He looks familial but I can't place him for the life of me.
Looks like Thurgood Marshall.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I'm also curious about the guy walking and talking in the last panel - is that Irenicus (of Baldur's Gate II fame?)
That was my guess, too, perhaps because I am playing it right now. We had a Shar-teel cameo a few weeks back so the authors are surely aware of Jon Irenicus.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I always figured there probably were accents in Erfworld - but everyone speaks English (so TV speaks Italian accented English, Jetstone speaks with a posh English or French accented English). Marie is just the first we have seen with very strong accented English.
She is supposed to be a Jamaican-style fortune teller, steeped in the traditions of African ju-ju/voodoo. It is a well-known type. There was even a successful TV psychic with the same accent about a decade ago until it was discovered she was born and raised in Brooklyn.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
Raza wrote:Ask Janis. She could probably hit the lot of them with love and peace; Wanda suggests at the start of the book that grand abbies have exceptional mass confrontation-quieting powers.
And possibly to soon for Janis and co to totally burn their bridges with the Magic Kingdom - I pictured Issac as the Thinkmancer equivalent of Janis. It would have to be at least a bit of a tough battle to subdue them all.
There is a reason they sent so many master-class thinkamancers. And yet Parson might quickly think of a way to use Janice and Sizemore to get to his portal.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Tachyon » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:56 pm

Lamech wrote:
Tachyon wrote:Uh. Wanda had stashes of the things, yes. They got used, too, in battle(s) where they were needed (albeit not necessarily all by her).

The reason you bother with a scroll is that you don't use your own Juice; the scroll contains Juice, and a spell it is to be used for, leaving you with more options for what you can do and how much you can cast during (and off) your turn. Wanda had stashes because she expected to need her own Juice for other things, and they were out of her discipline but within her power to cast.

Sorry, I'm gonna hafta agree with Kreistor.
And this has what to do with the claim that where he got the scroll was never part of, and isn't important too, the argument that Charlie is somehow behind this? Or are you saying scrolls are easier to make than casting a spell directly?

No. I'm saying it's more efficient to use a scroll rather than waste your own Juice when you may still have to use it to save your own arse after. Jojo is crazy, not stupid.

And it's easier for a Carnymancer to make a Carnymancy scroll than it is for another type of caster; the source of the scroll notwithstanding, it's more likely he either made it himself or got it from his Carnymancy buddies in the MK (assuming he has any).

Moreover, if the caster who made the scroll is also going to use the scroll, his reason for doing both of these things would speak to a contingency plan - if you can't cast it yourself, convince the target to have it cast on himself later.

Lamech wrote:
Tachyon wrote:We can see that Charlie wouldn't be risking his reputation as an employer in the MK by hiring a caster from the MK to attack someone in the MK.
Dude, Jojo never attacked Parson. He asked to be allowed to do something for Parson. What he did was the equivalent of saying "Want a free ride home?" Well since he is a stray Carnymancer more of a guy in a windowless van saying "Want a free ride home?" but still...

So I share Marie's skepticism (and outright distrust) of the motives Jojo claimed.

Lamech wrote:
Tachyon wrote:But...:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png wrote:I have spent most of the treasury and gems promoting all garrison units to full and sending them out of the city. My casters' names are Vanna, a Turnamancer, Jeftichew, a Carnymancer, Bowie, a Changemancer, and Spenser, a Findamancer. I made them pledge only to work for Royal sides, and sent them to the Magic Kingdom. Please employ them if you can.

A message to Don King to employ Jeftichew, if possible. HMMM.
And also, evidence that Queen Bea ordered all of her casters to work only for Royal sides. Charlie is not Royal.
Final. Nail. In coffin.

Parson is the only unit we know of who can directly defy an order from their Ruler without disbanding. Queen Bea is no longer alive, but... Jojo is still alive. And it was an order.
No. Or are you going to argue that Charlie wasn't behind Vanna and Kingworld? Now Jojo may not be officially working for Charlie. Charlie could have given him free advice, charged Jojo for advice, this could be a mutual plan, ect. Vanna was able to work with Charlie just fine, Jojo could easily do the same.

Let us compare Jillian and Charlie.
Charlie suggested Vanna work for Jillian and provided the funds for her upkeep. Perhaps, instead of suggesting it to Vanna, he suggested Vanna to Jillian.

Jillian ordered Vanna to cast a spell Jillian was advised to cast. Vanna could not have refused the order to link up with Charlie, even if it went against her previous orders. She would have been disbanded, so it doesn't matter who the original suggestion came from.

However, Jojo has not been hired by Jillian, and there are no other Royal sides we have seen who would freely accept advice from Charlie and act on his initiative (with the exception of Jetstone, a side so broke they can't afford to promote Tram to heir). Also, GK has captured Jetstone's portal. Jetstone could not have hired Jojo without sending someone through with orders to make a contract; they have not.

Accepting free advice from Charlie would not be enough; supposedly, Parson is the most dangerous being in Erfworld, and Jojo? He is just a Carnymancer.

Jojo was likely acting on orders from someone else. Probably Don King, as he was recommended to Don King by his former Ruler.

This does not preclude the idea that, much like Bogroll, Jojo may have recieved special orders that were not mentioned directly to Don King in the letter. Like "come up with a plan and sell it to Don King." A boss who's looking out for your best interests looks out for ways to fund those interests, too. When that interest is your survival... stuff happens.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby coyotenose » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:01 pm

Ambug666 wrote:If he were wearing glasses, I would have put money on Thurgood Marshall instead of Clarence Thomas.



*nods* I figured Thomas or Marshall, but Marshall had more hair than that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Kreistor » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:06 pm

Lamech wrote:The thing he shouldn't have is the knowledge of Parson being a summon, and his trip through the MK.


I have already pointed out that Parson has already been inside the MK, and been defended by the Conspiracy. I would expect the knowledge of a Warlord that can enter the MK to have spread like wildfire. There was a lot of talking while Parson was unconscious, and more than 100 Turns worth from Book 1 to now that are all off-panel. There are dozens of people who are *NOT* Charlie and *ARE* in the MK that are fully aware of the Summon that can inform Jojo. And it's not like Jojo lacks the capacity to trick people into telling him things, since Carnymancers are known conmen.

More to the point why is he bothering with a scroll?


A ruse: he wasn't going to cast the scroll when Parson dropped his staff, and was only pretending that he had a scroll that would do something: he was going to cast a SPELL. (Which is why he tossed the scroll away... it didn't do anything at all useful in the first place). What are the chances Parson would believe a lone caster would be able to send him home?

Or a spell that required more than one day's juice. Or a couple other things that would require speculation about the magic system. But it's easy enough to explain.

Lamech wrote:Seems likely that they want the time table moved up. And they may be trying to fill Parson in on whatever. Although if I wanted to stage an attack on Charlie I would deck out a bunch of yellow dwagons with Staff of Suckage type items, and bomb him into nothingness. Charlie has a ton of golems and traps and a crap ton of mini casters? Couldn't think of a better way to pull it off.


http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F121.jpg

Panel 9. Staff protects carrier, not mount, so dwagon dies and carrier falls to death. Further, assumes Staff of Suckage can be obtained in quantity, cheaply, and does not deplete. Further, there are 600 Archons Charlie can call upon to defend Charlescomm, so we're not talking about a small amount of casting -- if each can cast shockmancy 3 times on average, that's 1800 dead attackers.

Further, remember that the Toolists are convinced that Charlie will eventually join them. They want the third attuned Arkentool on Side, not destroyed, whatever the GMTTA wants. So total annihilation of Charlescomm is simply not in GK's interest, no matter how much they hate his actions and no matter how much the GMTTA begs for him to be killed.

What can be done? Remember, as Parson stated: THERE IS NO PERFECT PLAN! You try things: sometimes they even work. There are always holes, and ways to improve the plan, but every change costs something else, even if it's giving Charlie time to prepare. I am doing this to demonstrate the vast array of weapons and techniques Parson has at his fingertips, or could try to obtain.

First, Parson and GK now know the world is much larger than they thought. Charlie knows that. Hit Charlie in the pocketbook: Bounty on Archons. Additional bonus if the bodies can be moved to GK. (For Decryption, though you don't tell anyone that.) GK is rich, so can afford that strategy.

Second, find a Side with gobwins: Gk wasn't the only Natural Ally. Charlie is theoretically behind their disappearance from GK, but even he couldn't take them all from Sides currently using them. You want them for their tunneling, BTW. Charlie has, with no infantry, no defense against tunneling units until they're fighting inside the City itself. Gobwins, as a Natural Ally, won't disband when a Side falls, and this should give GK its Gobwins back.

Third, capture a city that can pop mountain capable units. This will provide ground capable infantry.

Fourth, bats or other small, cheap flying units. So nab Transylvito. The Transylvito way is far more powerful in GK's hands. Not just stacked Leadership bonuses, Pop, cap, then decrypt bats. Now they get Wanda's bonus and the Artifact bonus.

Fifth, try to find a city that pops light or tunneling units (like GK's Spidews). We need more tunnel attackers.

So, lay siege to Charlescomm. I'm not talking "assault the walls" siege, like tBfGK, but move into the City Hex and create a defensive position near the main gate with Mountain and Flier units. This is to protect Sizemore and the gobwins in case Charlie figures out a way to get at them. Sizemore tunnels from the nearest non-mountain hex, through mountains, and under city.

While tunnels are being constructed, Charlie has to either sit back and wait for the attack, or send out Archons to try and stop it. If he sits and waits, Sizemore can undermine the city walls, and create breaches in the walls for ground assault. Every turn Charlie waits, Sizemore undermines more city. Now we can go head to head. Warlord, dwagon, 6 bats for each stack of 8. Bats screen for warlord and dwagon until dwagon gets into breath range. Wanda gets dwagon and 6 Archons, with another 8 Archons to top up her own stack as they die screening for her. And Parson? Parson has a jet pack! What, you think Parson isn't going to go bat-sh*t crazy when he finds out that Ace can make him accessories? (That jet pack is destined for one person, and one person only.)

The advantage of attack is that you get to choose which of your units attack which of his. The advantage of defense is that you can build structures to protect your troops. Charlescomm has limited choices of troops to attack with. Unless some of those golems are mountain capable, he has only Archons to attack GK with, unless that areas outside the wall to the hex-side is ground unit capable.

[But you know what? It will all fail. Because I just figured out where all those Gobwins are. The decrypted Archons told us that Charlie has no infantry or natural allies... by choice. What other race would be a natural ally to a mountain city, but gobwins? Charlie has all those missing gobwins doing to his hex what Sizemore did to GK: they are tunneling under the city so it can be collapsed on demand and defend it from Sizemore. After all, if you're going to deny GK its Natural Allies, what's better than to use them yourself? We may well see Charlescomm popping Warlords and other units now, too. Not many. Charlie has only one city, and his only identifiable income is his mercenary business, so anything non-Archon that pops doesn't generate revenue to produce more units, and just costs upkeep. But if he is thinking "defense", he has to give up that monotonic unit selection. Predictable is vulnerable. Aaanyway, back to our show...]

Charlie tries a couple failed attacks on the GK siege or doesn't try at all. If he attacks in force, he risks losing far too much to the full attacking force. His best bet for survbival is an all out attack with all of his Archons, but that's throwing everything into one risky plan that Parson could foresee and prepare for. Besides, the story is only interesting if GK attacks Charlescomm. Begin by making some breaches in the walls from tunneling and undermining. While this is happening, dwagons lay siege to outer walls in other spots to create more breaches. (Don't want them in airspace, or they'll take air defense. Mountain units hit breaches from outside, and mounted spidews from inside trap defenders on the walls. If Archons move up to defend by air, send in the bats... one at a time (may need a small stack to force shockmancy, but no leadership... they're knight class after all, so shouldn't be shoddy meleers). The goal now becomes to burn out the Archons and leave Charlie with no significant defense.

Now the assault begins in earnest. This puts us in Courtyard. Now we really bring out the bats, full stacks, flying leadership if possible, and we hit Airspace... HARD. Force them to burn Air defenses on cheap units, or lose Tower to bat swarms. May cost us some Transylvito warlords, if we caught or popped any.

Now we use those dwagons... but not to attack. Dwagons use move to ferry ground forces from the nearest non-mountain hex. With 55 move (1 used to get into Charlescomm start of Turn, dwagon doesn't enter Courtyard ideally) and a suitable hex 2 away, that's 4 move per unit, for 13 units per dwagon (some dwagons have less move, some more). It also may cost 6, since they may be forced to land in Courtyard, and not outside Outer Walls. That can bring in our most elite troops, and compared to the 600 Archons, it's not an insignificant or useless force. Further, if they're archers, they can hit Archons in Airspace, if necessary.

Considering Parson's success with heavy hobgobwins, I would be tempted to make them all hobgobwins and turn them heavy once they're inside Courtyard, but they can't ever get out of Charlescomm so they'd be useless in the future... unless you killed them and decrypted them after moving their corpses. Messy business that, though, since you'd have to chop off dead flesh until dwagons could carry the weight.

So, if you've created the tunnels, you're ready to begin the final assault. I know you could begin assault on tower with dwagons, but you don't want to run the risk that Charlie is a caster and can flee into MK. You want to trap him in Tower. Foolamancy to keep dwagon stacks around the Tower from being easy targets to Archons. Hit Tunnels to dungeon and Garrison walls simultaneously. Force Charlie to split up his forces and fight on as many fronts at once. This is costly to both sides, but it costs Charlie's limited forces more than it costs us. We;re trying to do two things: 1) Cut off the portal, and 2) Cut off Tower access to the Tunnels. Either works for us. Once Charlie is cut off, it's all over but the crying.

If Charlie has indeed prepared tunnels recently, we're not going to have the forces to win there. Even if Sizemore alone can hook us up to the tunnels, we'd be trying to take it on just whatever Spidews and bobgobwin riders were available to us, so the gobwins would have numbers on us, probably. Our advantage there is that Archons can't enter tunnels (Light or Tunnel units only), but they can defend Dungeon. Charlie would be best letting half our force enter dungeon, then attack from Tunnels with gobwins, trapping our assault between two forces.

Oh, but here's a surprise for you. Archons mounted on Spidews can enter Tunnels. That would be a major help. Spidews can ferry a major force into dungeon the way dwagons did into Courtyard. Archons and Hobgowins are both knight-class units, so I don't see any obvious reason why this wouldn't work.

After that, it's just a war of attrition against Charlie's Archons and traps until there's nothing left to defend Charlie. Then we need to capture and Turn him. If he tries to jump, we've got dwagons in Airspace to prevent his Bea-like fall.

Anyway, there's some creativity for you. There are thousands of ways of doing this, depending on your goal and available forces.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Phædrus2129 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:24 pm

I see London, I see France
I see lil' Ms. Alex Vance
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Saladman » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:55 pm

Tachyon wrote:Let us compare Jillian and Charlie.
Charlie suggested Vanna work for Jillian and provided the funds for her upkeep. Perhaps, instead of suggesting it to Vanna, he suggested Vanna to Jillian.


Yes; that's not news.

Jillian ordered Vanna to cast a spell Jillian was advised to cast. Vanna could not have refused the order to link up with Charlie, even if it went against her previous orders. She would have been disbanded, so it doesn't matter who the original suggestion came from.


Disbanding over orders probably doesn't work the same way for mercenaries, given the example of Jillian working for the RCC. But as far as the chain of orders went, sure.

However, Jojo has not been hired by Jillian, and there are no other Royal sides we have seen who would freely accept advice from Charlie and act on his initiative (with the exception of Jetstone, a side so broke they can't afford to promote Tram to heir). Also, GK has captured Jetstone's portal. Jetstone could not have hired Jojo without sending someone through with orders to make a contract; they have not.

Accepting free advice from Charlie would not be enough; supposedly, Parson is the most dangerous being in Erfworld, and Jojo? He is just a Carnymancer.

Jojo was likely acting on orders from someone else. Probably Don King, as he was recommended to Don King by his former Ruler.

This does not preclude the idea that, much like Bogroll, Jojo may have recieved special orders that were not mentioned directly to Don King in the letter. Like "come up with a plan and sell it to Don King." A boss who's looking out for your best interests looks out for ways to fund those interests, too. When that interest is your survival... stuff happens.


And here is where you lose me. None of that necessarily or even logically follows.

Bea wouldn't have had to make her casters promise to only work for Royal sides if her orders carried the full weight of an auto-disband after her she and her whole side ended.

Jojo doesn't have to be working for any side at all, at least in the formal sense of being allied and having his upkeep paid, and in fact Janice describes him as a free carnymancer. He could well be kicking around the Magic Kingdom with the rest of the barbarian casters.

The "most dangerous being in Erfworld" doesn't have to be true in the first place for Charlie to trot the line out when he thinks it will be useful; doesn't necessarily mean in direct combat if its true; and even if true in direct combat, Charlie might not use the exact same line on a Carnymancer he wants to manipulate into confronting said being personally that he used on a Warlord he was trying to manipulate into not confronting same being.

Assuming Bea's casters take their promise seriously, and I'll assume they do lacking other information, they still promised only to work for Royal sides. You're thinking that rules out Charlie influencing them, but why would they extend "working for" to "talking to," especially if a mercenary known as a sharp but reliable broker offers them information on a key asset for the side that ended their side's existence? I'd hear him out, and once you start hearing Charlie out you're halfway gone already.

Charlie and the Great Minds are the only two players we know of who knew of Parson's trip. The Minds are increasingly unlikely, so unless we're just being jerked around it's likely Charlie in one way or another. Could be anything from a paid contract for performance but short of joining his side, to a "friendly" tip on the spur of the moment, to something passed through Vanna to Jojo.

The other options I guess are that Jojo got very lucky finding Parson, or that Unaroyal's casters are still working together as a conspiracy/cell. I'll pass over the lucky option, but the second is a possibility, especially with a Findamancer included, with Vanna feeding them whatever info she gets from her new position.

But Don King not only has no way of knowing of Parson's day trip, or Parson's significance in general, he apparently lacks the Schmuckers to support an extra caster, and doing that on the side given his finances would be a pretty major plot point.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Saladman » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:05 am

If I were a wiser man though, I'd stay away from arguing over literal conspiracy theories, and spend more time appreciating the art. I just now fully caught Sizemore's expression when Parson says "places to go, people to kill." That's priceless. And it makes a nice line with Janice's and Marie's expressions in the same panel. And I like panel 10, looking up at the the Thinkamancers, Pamela Anderson in her bikini among them. That's awesome. So, yay Xin.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:30 am

Lamech wrote: Or are you going to argue that Charlie wasn't behind Vanna and Kingworld? Now Jojo may not be officially working for Charlie. Charlie could have given him free advice, charged Jojo for advice, this could be a mutual plan, ect. Vanna was able to work with Charlie just fine, Jojo could easily do the same.


It theoretically could be that Jojo is working for Don or Slately or some other Royal faction that wants monies. As long as Charlie pays the Side back for the Caster's upkeep (viz. a viz. Vanna working for FAQ, with her upkeep paid by Charlie), then it could work. Jillian made a big deal in book 2 somewhere about how they were skirting the rules of Vanna's oath to Bea.

But that doesn't feel right to me. Nor even does the "Marie is Charlie". Parson, Jillian, and Trammenis have all spoken to Charlie, in panel. Not only do we know how he talks (half businessman, half smug-snake semi-intellectual), and I can't think of anyone else who talks like that in the comic. On a similar skeptical note: though I was once firmly committed to the belief that Charlie is a dude, Book 2 Text Update 18 (near the bottom) has a Thinkagram with Charlie flickering to a ghostly woman's face before the image of Haggar. This was one of the points where Charlie was most stressed. And there's an evolving sense that Rob is keeping some critically vital piece of information about Charlie from the reader. (I mean, shit, that would be totally out of character for Rob, right? Lolno.)

My personal theory is that this is how the power dynamics work:

The pieces: Godwin Knob against the RCC II and FAQ, and other distant states not involved in this particular conference. (*Wanda and Stanley and Parson are all significant sub-factions of Godwin Knob, and will probably part ways at some point because Wanda is in it for the Evulz.)
The players: Charlie (manipulating FAQ, RCCII, and Haggar), tGMtTA (behind SPW at least), the faction represented by Jeftichew (unknown, working against Janis and tGMtTA), Janis (behind SPW, manipulating significant portions of the MK to achieve peace throughout Erf), and other miscellaneous Caster factions such as the Healers that boycotted GK because of Decryption.
The players behind the players: So far, just Marie (behind Janis). Maybe Charlie fits here too.

So what? The Thinkamancers are dead-set on fighting Charlie. I think they want Parson to work with or for them. They're either going to bust out a projector and go all PSA up in this, or they're going to mind-rape him. You know, one of the two*. Cheery fellows. But they don't see this in terms of fighting like a stereotypical "man" instead of a centralized (and well-defended) general like Parson does. They don't care about Wanda and Jack. So I see them as HAVING to have an agenda for Parson, if only to counter Charlie's. (Though I haven't seen it discussed, tGMtTA must be able to hack Charlie if they really feel like it. While Charlie definitely can do it more, this is an assembly of the best Thinkamancers in their world. Charlie is a cheap hack with a game-breaker, a business model, and what amounts to a brothel.**) Anyway so the point is that For a number of reasons I think tGMtTA want Parson, with or without him agreeing. Besides them telling him that overtly in this update. You know, first thing's first.

For all of Marie's power-behind-the-power antics, she makes a great segue into my own personal belief about how this story will progress:

I think that ultimately the showdown is going to be Wanda v. Jillian. I don't know whose side Parson will be on, but I suspect it will be Wanda's. I think that the world is going to start revolving around FAQ, and all of the other ancillary sides are going to get killed, thrust aside, or Decrypted. Wanda, Jack, Marie, and Jillian. Don't know why, but it just feels like FAQ embodies (besides mercenary ambition) true optimism and right-to-rule to the direct counter of Decryption and Wanda's arrogance and Toolism.

*Disclaimer: I actually have no idea what I'm talking about in any way, shape, or form. Disregard this at leisure or if that would generate lulz.
**A brothel of Amazonian women in suits who can fly, sure, but... summer update. Parson's revelation about relationships. Need I say more?


EDIT:
Saladman wrote:And I like panel 10, looking up at the the Thinkamancers, Pamela Anderson in her bikini among them.


I just had this really weird thought: do little kids look up at adults and see their/our crotches really huge because of perspective? That's really, really weird. And a sign that I need more sleep. (Not that seeing Pamela Anderson's crotch up close is necessarily a bad thing, mind you. ;) )
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Matthew Wildstar » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:56 am

The gentleman who looks like a judge, previously appeared in a text update here:

http://www.erfworld.com/2011/01/book-2-%E2%80%93-text-updates-038/

...and in the associated reactions thread Regisminae tentatively identified him as Neil deGrasse Tyson.

http://www.erfworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1994
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Tachyon » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:24 am

Kreistor's last post wrote:(Contents omitted for brevity's sake.)

Brilliant. And corpses can be moved by dwagon relay, but it'd be more efficient to keep Wanda with the stacks that get croaked.

Regardless, I don't think we're quite finished with all of the action between now and then.

In my experience, also, anything less than 80% certain is not worth jumping on. Anything under 90% still isn't a sure thing. Last I checked, the likelihood that Charlescomm is behind the Gobwins' disappearance is under 80%. Parson's a better strategist than I am but even he wouldn't act without more information - and he has been desperate for anything he can get on Charlie.

We're looking at a lot of potential updates between now and your wrap-up of how this will end, and what you've described almost would fit in another book, given how closely it parallels Book 1. Moreover...

The world is much larger than most sides realize. And GK's stated plan of action?
Turn, (or croak and decrypt) every unit in Erfworld.
All of them. In the whole world.

I don't know that Parson's fully behind this plan yet. He feels compelled to fight, though, because he won't sit back and have someone else fight in a fight he won't fight himself. And we were just reminded of something with this update - the summon spell is still forcing him to play out all his options.

Last time that happened, the volcano exploded.

Saladman wrote:
Tachyon wrote:Let us compare Jillian and Charlie.
Charlie suggested Vanna work for Jillian and provided the funds for her upkeep. Perhaps, instead of suggesting it to Vanna, he suggested Vanna to Jillian.


Yes; that's not news.

And no news is, as they say, good news.

Saladman wrote:
Tachyon wrote:Jillian ordered Vanna to cast a spell Jillian was advised to cast. Vanna could not have refused the order to link up with Charlie, even if it went against her previous orders. She would have been disbanded, so it doesn't matter who the original suggestion came from.


Disbanding over orders probably doesn't work the same way for mercenaries, given the example of Jillian working for the RCC. But as far as the chain of orders went, sure.

We've not seen any evidence to suggest this isn't the case (Jillian, likewise, never broke alliance with Jetstone, and eventually wound up acting in their best interest, to the best of her capability to do so; also she's a Royal, Royals are one of the few types of units we've seen in Erfworld for whom it's been clarified actually have free will). But one way or the other, we also don't know that Benjamin isn't a merc, but everyone was worried about Don King disbanding him. Your thoughts?

Saladman wrote:
Tachyon wrote:However, Jojo has not been hired by Jillian, and there are no other Royal sides we have seen who would freely accept advice from Charlie and act on his initiative (with the exception of Jetstone, a side so broke they can't afford to promote Tram to heir). Also, GK has captured Jetstone's portal. Jetstone could not have hired Jojo without sending someone through with orders to make a contract; they have not.

Accepting free advice from Charlie would not be enough; supposedly, Parson is the most dangerous being in Erfworld, and Jojo? He is just a Carnymancer.

Jojo was likely acting on orders from someone else. Probably Don King, as he was recommended to Don King by his former Ruler.

This does not preclude the idea that, much like Bogroll, Jojo may have recieved special orders that were not mentioned directly to Don King in the letter. Like "come up with a plan and sell it to Don King." A boss who's looking out for your best interests looks out for ways to fund those interests, too. When that interest is your survival... stuff happens.


And here is where you lose me. None of that necessarily or even logically follows.

Bea wouldn't have had to make her casters promise to only work for Royal sides if her orders carried the full weight of an auto-disband after her she and her whole side ended.

Jojo doesn't have to be working for any side at all, at least in the formal sense of being allied and having his upkeep paid, and in fact Janice describes him as a free carnymancer. He could well be kicking around the Magic Kingdom with the rest of the barbarian casters.

The "most dangerous being in Erfworld" doesn't have to be true in the first place for Charlie to trot the line out when he thinks it will be useful; doesn't necessarily mean in direct combat if its true; and even if true in direct combat, Charlie might not use the exact same line on a Carnymancer he wants to manipulate into confronting said being personally that he used on a Warlord he was trying to manipulate into not confronting same being.

Assuming Bea's casters take their promise seriously, and I'll assume they do lacking other information, they still promised only to work for Royal sides. You're thinking that rules out Charlie influencing them, but why would they extend "working for" to "talking to," especially if a mercenary known as a sharp but reliable broker offers them information on a key asset for the side that ended their side's existence? I'd hear him out, and once you start hearing Charlie out you're halfway gone already.

Charlie and the Great Minds are the only two players we know of who knew of Parson's trip. The Minds are increasingly unlikely, so unless we're just being jerked around it's likely Charlie in one way or another. Could be anything from a paid contract for performance but short of joining his side, to a "friendly" tip on the spur of the moment, to something passed through Vanna to Jojo.

The other options I guess are that Jojo got very lucky finding Parson, or that Unaroyal's casters are still working together as a conspiracy/cell. I'll pass over the lucky option, but the second is a possibility, especially with a Findamancer included, with Vanna feeding them whatever info she gets from her new position.

But Don King not only has no way of knowing of Parson's day trip, or Parson's significance in general, he apparently lacks the Schmuckers to support an extra caster, and doing that on the side given his finances would be a pretty major plot point.

Actually, Don King does have a way of knowing. Remember, he has spies everywhere, too - his personal bats. Charlie isn't the only one with a Thinkamantic spy network; he just has more bars in more places. And Don King's may not be veiled, but they don't need to be. Bats have a natural camouflage; they're friggin' tiny, and they can be feral. Nobody would even need to ask permission to fly a bat through another side's airspace, or hang it from a branch there. Jillian couldn't see whose bats were whose just by looking at them, and unless it's normal for her to be able to do so, it follows logically that no one else besides Parson with his glasses on (or someone else with a similar setup) could.

Also, yeah, it actually does logically follow that Jillian doesn't have Jojo on her payroll. We've seen enough narration conveying Jillian's inner dialogue to know that Vanna's the only caster currently working for her. She can't afford Vanna, as it is, and Charlie can't directly employ Jojo for previously stated reasons. No one else is providing Jillian with funds for a caster; Jillian has no other casters.

Queen Bea's writing style is... flowery. A vow = orders. The only difference between thinking out loud, in Erfworld, and giving a unit an order, is the unit issuing the order clearly leaning one way or the other in their own mind. Whether it's said plainly or floriously, an order is an order. Thus why Parson's suggestion to his casters to enter the MK in Book 1, and his contemplation of Banana falling without style each led to their respective outcomes. I'm sorry, but Queen Bea didn't need to plead with her casters to get them to do what she wanted - there are no volunteers in Erfworld, except, perhaps, for Rulers.

That doesn't rule out Jojo being stupid. Jojo, however, is very much informed, and at any rate, being a free caster, would still need to pay his upkeep somehow. Sure, he could forage for rations, and there are farms, and he knows Janis, and can sell his services for access to farms - but given that, he wouldn't need Charlie's money. And it follows that he wouldn't need to risk his life to get involved with doing... whatever he'd been planning to do, to Parson. He'd just kick back and stay away from the conflict as long as possible, if he's sane, and maybe find some Royal side that GK hasn't made an enemy of yet, if he really wanted to get back into combat (there's visible risk, and then there's obvious suicide, and a sane man always picks the latter without provocation to do otherwise).

That being the case, since he explicitly can't work for Charlie, he has to work for someone else if he is not merely living off farmed rations.

Don King is the next logical choice, and it was Queen Bea's wish that Jojo and her other casters be employed by him (Don King specifically, first, and failing that, only other Royal sides). I'm going to just reinforce this likelihood with the fact that Unaroyal was part of the RCC2, and coalition members are strictly prohibited by treaty from working with Charlie. This doesn't make it physically impossible, but former Unaroyal casters have only reasons to believe even just talking to Charlie will result in something bad happening to the people they were ordered to work for. Duty, once again, provides a very strong motivator to not do so.

That said, Jojo was all talkin' 'bout that thar Free Will. And he was not the first person to do so that day. If Jojo is a free thinker, and he seems to be, it'd be only natural for him to try to sell some of his free thinking. But I don't see him working for a non-Royal side or agenda, unless he's working for himself. And where, oh where did he learn that Parson doesn't belong?

I say, if Jojo can freely come across this information, so can Don King (remember, Queen Bea also wanted her Findamancer to work for Transylvito; it's amusing, Findamancers reveal things that are hidden - like, perhaps, say, hidden unit stats? Other worlds? C'mon.) The odds are high that Don King gave any information he gleaned, however he gleaned it, to Jojo. Along with orders.

And Rob has been dropping breadcrumbs for us ever since the Summer Updates sequence. I'm not stupid, but there are about a million different red herrings Rob could use aside from this one, and Rob is a good writer - you typically don't write red herrings when you can write foreshadowing, unless you're writing a campy, horrible mystery novel. Not like this.

Although I'm not willing to rule out the possibility of a horrible twoll. :P
Last edited by Tachyon on Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:08 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Lamech » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:33 am

Saladman wrote:<snip> he apparently lacks the Schmuckers to support an extra caster, and doing that on the side given his finances would be a pretty major plot point.
From skimming the snipped part I mostly agree with the snipped section. But Don has 25k shmuckers. Depending on how expensive casters are (I for one would suspect they are many times there upkeep) Don may have enough to hire Jojo. He has 25k. Depending on how much work that scroll took, and how much a casters upkeep Jojo may have gotten many times more than his upkeep for a turn of juice and bugging Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby atalex » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:08 am

Tachyon wrote: That being the case, since he explicitly can't work for Charlie, he has to work for someone else if he is not merely living off farmed rations.


No offense, but I'm just not willing to accept that as an a priori assumption just yet. It may well be that Duty in Erfworld is such a powerful and insidious force that it can compel a unit to continue obeying an order even after the ruler who gave it has committed suicide and the side to which they both belong has been utterly obliterated. But there is no evidence that this is actually the case other than Bea's statement that she made her casters promise to only serve Royal sides and she expected them to keep that promise (or at the very least hoped that they would). Her reason for thinking they would obey that promise might be because the vow was backed by supernatural force or it might simply be because she believed her casters to be loyal enough to her for them to feel obligated to keep the vow even after she committed suicide. We have no way of knowing based on the information gathered so far. Furthermore, even if the oath was magically binding, we have no way to know whether it would be specifically binding on Jeftichew, a Carneymancer whose style of magic is explicitly based on trickery and on breaking established rules. If it is possible for any character other than Parson to utterly defy Duty, I'd expect a Carneymancer to be the one to do it. This possibility is further reflected in his conversation with Parson, which establishes Jojo as the mouthpiece character for rejecting the fatalistic viewpoint espoused by both Wanda and Marie. In short, I don't think we know enough right now to reject any theory regarding Jojo's employment out of hand.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Tachyon » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:22 am

Good assumption. That's actually the first other solid theory I've heard on Jojo's motives.

Other people who might be immune to Duty: Turnamancers (they specifically manipulate it), Changemancers (maybe... we don't know what all is implied by "Change")...

Oh wait. Those are all Queen Bea's casters? I think you may be on to something here. And a Findamancer provides the knowledge of Parson. What a gallery of rogues. :P

I'm not going to take it for granted that you're right, though. Too soon to call, and that all sort of violates Stanley's (presumably well-grounded) expectation that a unit disband when it disobeys an order, which would poke a hole in my own theory... but now I feel dumb for making an assumption that Stanley would make. Thanks. :<

Regardless, this can't be the first time casters have just randomly wandered into the MK just before their side's defeat (it's apparently done often enough that it's a well-known strategy); It might be a bit of a stretch for a newly-freed, ragtag group of casters to just randomly decide to put an end to the biggest threat to the world's stability they have ever seen, especially since they're all from a previously minor side - but hey, one of them is working for a major player in the war, and the other is doing something utterly crazy. Sure, why not?

Oh, the suspense!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 66

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:58 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:And no text update... :o What is happening with Slately, Trem, the Jetstone casters, Warlord Greybrows, Oss - too much suspense!


At this very moment, Slately is kicking ass and taking names, because the Pinks run out of bubblegum.


I am looking forward to seeing that so much, words wont be able to describe my disappointment if we don't get to see something awesome from Slately.

Raza wrote:Fun update. This interpretation of Morticia is pretty hot.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Morticia (love the Addams Family in most of its versions, I especially hope there is a Raul Julia Gomez running around. Hmmm, what kind of Mancer would he be?)


Yes, yes, and respectively YES. Oh wait that was a question. Uhm, Awesomancer.
[/quote]

The most awesome Awesomancer. Ever.

warriortribble wrote:I can't help but wonder what the Great Mind(s) are thinking. How do they expect Parson to defeat Charlie by endangering his position in Gobwin Knob?


Maybe they have allied with a coalition of Healomancers/somethingmancers that feel Wanda's use of the pliers is a dangerous intrusion into the magical field and she must be stopped (I mean if Thinkamancers can object to Charlie so strongly, such form of caster must surely be in a similar position to Wanda, who is also much more overtly sinister then Charlie). Recruit Parson to there cause and leave Wanda to die... ;)

darkgolem wrote: It's obvious that she makes mistakes from the fact that her kingdom fell...


Unless she planned for that to happen (or she didn't but there was nothing she could do about it - she told Banhammer his kingdom was doomed, doomed because of what she told Wanda, which led Wanda to Stanley... and which led to the creation of Jillian, who captured Ansom...)

atteSmythe wrote:Or, better than that, he's Chief Warlord. I suppose if he knows that they're waiting for him, he can order them through at any time. Nice.


Is Parson able to deliver orders by thought? I thought he needed a Thinkamancer (or would need a hat or something) to do that.

Aquillion wrote:Wasn't she one of the ones who made the spell that summoned him? She'd know that it would only summon someone willing, which means that, yeah, it's not hard to guess that he didn't fit in back at home.


I'm a bit hazy of the specifics of the spell (other then it was meant to summon the perfect warlord and for all appearances it wasn't a perfect casting), but was there something in it that insured only a willing subject would be summoned? And I'm not sure it would necessarily guarantee you would get someone who wouldn't want to go back at some point (a Dorothy Gale running away from home, an adventure seeking new things etc), especially if they didn't like it.

Seems likely that they want the time table moved up. And they may be trying to fill Parson in on whatever. Although if I wanted to stage an attack on Charlie I would deck out a bunch of yellow dwagons with Staff of Suckage type items, and bomb him into nothingness. Charlie has a ton of golems and traps and a crap ton of mini casters? Couldn't think of a better way to pull it off. Although if they do want the time line on Charlie stepped up I wonder if Parson will ask them to do there share of anti-Charlie work?


Not being convinced the Great Minds are necessarily doing good (and because I like Charlie), I hope he continues to live a long, healthy life for quite a while more. Though I do like the idea, the potential for drama - we know Wanda's view on the subject. That is, that they aren't going after him, it is the last thing they would want to do (either last in the sense they attack him last, or last as in the thing they'd like to avoid). She has the whole Tools/fate thing.

If Parson fell in with a group whose aim was to take Charlie down how would she react?

Lamech wrote:Dude the battle will be finished by the time Parson is done. The tower is about to fall. They don't need Parson. Wanda accidentally won this by having the dwagons not be useless.


Thus invalidating all the exciting foreshadowing with Slately and Oss and Wanda herself saying she didn't know how to win the battle? I would be sad to see that.

She is supposed to be a Jamaican-style fortune teller, steeped in the traditions of African ju-ju/voodoo. It is a well-known type. There was even a successful TV psychic with the same accent about a decade ago until it was discovered she was born and raised in Brooklyn.


True, it makes sense for her to have an accent (and for accents to exist in Erfworld in my view), even if the nationalities they match don't exist there.

Tachyon wrote:We've not seen any evidence to suggest this isn't the case (Jillian, likewise, never broke alliance with Jetstone, and eventually wound up acting in their best interest, to the best of her capability to do so; also she's a Royal, Royals are one of the few types of units we've seen in Erfworld for whom it's been clarified actually have free will). But one way or the other, we also don't know that Benjamin isn't a merc, but everyone was worried about Don King disbanding him. Your thoughts?


Sammy was certainly planning on breaking the alliance, I would think units of differing sides would be protected from disbanding for not obeying an officer from another side (especially rulers or heirs deciding not to obey or betray). Mercs might be different and it would depend on how much they gave themselves to a side. A merc casually hired for a limited number of overs might be fairly autonomous and disobeying orders I would think would lead to penalties invoked through their contract. But if it were possible to hire a unit in such a way it essentially was like buying a unit (permanent or semi-permanent) they would risk disbanding. Or if that was a penalty outlined in their contract for punishing serious misdeeds.

EricH wrote:There was much speculation that Jojo would get his comeuppance when he exited the tunnel into the waiting arms of the GMTTA; now it looks like Jojo is going to get off scot-free....


Comeuppance for what? He didn't actually do anything (wrong or otherwise).

goodmorning wrote:Marie... I think she's seen the fates of too many to be that bothered by a little thing like death. Death is everyday for her, so she's totally fine with more of it if it will mean that a greater good will be served.


If she were genre savvy she should be worried about that. How many dispassionate/aloof villians (or anti villains or well intentioned extremists) are all "humans with their wars/science/religion/lack of care for the environment/etc" and are far to readily prepared to bring society/civilization crashing down for their goals only to get stopped by the hero (probably rightly, since they are, after all, at peace with the idea of mass death and suffering for their own goals).
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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