Book 2 – Page 67

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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Tobz » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:52 pm

badninja wrote:Nice good to see Parson thinking fast. the Tool may enjoy having two new powerful casters on his side. I feel that the GMTTA may have brought Charlie to Erfworld and they lost control of him and now it is repeating with Parson thus their worry. Janis knows that this is not what hippymancy is about, but she will go along hopefully if it will serve her cause.


Of all the casters in Erf, I don't think there are many other casters that will have such an antagonizing effect on the Tool as Janis and Marie. :lol:

I wonder if Sizemore will stack as well against the Thinkamancer bunch. His emotional struggle to fight alongside Janis against other casters would be interesting, and it's always fun to see his (mindless?) Golems pound something into the ground.

I'm sad to see we won't get many text updates after this. For me it's one of the defining qualities of Erfworld and really puts this webcomic another notch above the rest. I think Rob has painted himself a bit into the corner too much by his intention to keep the storylines of the written updates completely separate to the rest of the story. There is only so much unrelated stuff you can write about before it starts interfering, I guess.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:53 pm

Sad to see the text updates go for a bit, but if we have reached a spot in the story where they wont work as well it is for the best. I fully expect the last few pages of this particular chapter to be great (just half a dozen? It seems like so much could happen!)

Nice page, Marie continues to creep me out. That last panel... is she lying? In a world where prophecies and fate are given such respect I could see how a predictamancer could trick people into doing what they want - Someone says "Oh no I wont" and the predictamancer says "OH YES YOU WELL. PREDICTED IT I HAVE. Checkmate." She just seems to lack concern for anyone else. First Parson, now Janis (her friend) who clearly unhappy about the prospect.

Plus the Thinkers are coming off as a bit sinister. Ultimately I don't know how this will end. On this side of the portal or the other. So much great potential.

And yay, more background casters - there is Jade from Beyond Good & Evil, Mary Poppins, Carman Sandiago with the Spanic Inquisition?

Heh, and Maggie is funny when she is angry.

DunkelMentat wrote:Oh man. What sort of thing do you imagine a predictamancer would bring to a stack? Do they have offensive or defensive capabilities? I thought they just sorta told the future.


Maybe buff others with limited precog or something like that? Befuddle the enemy with visions seemingly foretelling their doom maybe. I can't think of much to be honest (since I guess some Erfworld disciplines aren't as versatile as, say, a wizard who can be a Diviner and still throw fire balls).

splintermute wrote:Janis could be a "get out of war free" card for everyone in Spacerock. Parson drags her through, she may be powerful enough to quiet the entire battle, Jetstone has no choice but to end their turn, and then all of GK, instead of just the casters, can just pack up and go home.


If that happened (though I don't think it will) I could also see it as a source of interesting conflict between nominal allies, say Janis does some battle calming and Wanda uses it as an opportunity for mass croaking/decrypting (unless she quiets both sides of the conflict, which isn't really what Marie wants). If that happened neither Parson or Janis would probably be happy (even though Parson knows Wanda has been executing prisoners and decrypting them, saying it close up might shake him a bit more).

Of course Janis and Marie add some nice variables to the whole thing because they don't serve GK and aren't bound to Parson's orders (though I'm not sure how much they can do with the whole off turn thing). Maybe Janis could do something unexpected and not necessarily bad for either side.

Of course I'd be sad if it denied us the chance to see Slately doing something awesome while wearing a jetpack (although maybe I've looked at it wrong, and he and the casters will just have to retreat, and it will be Slately and his casters who become the most unlikely team to threat GK, not Trem and the casters).

badninja wrote:Nice good to see Parson thinking fast. the Tool may enjoy having two new powerful casters on his side.


I don't know, I guess they have nominally been on GKs side just because of Parson, but I think this would just be a temp thing. GK hasn't hired them or entered into any official contract with them. As free parties Janis and Marie can just tag along I guess if Parson allows it. Of course this might be a bridge burning thing, she I doubt they'd be able to pop back into the MK after this (at least safely). I just can't imagine Janis working for Stanley or with Wanda. Though Wanda, Marie and Jack ending up together again should be interesting (the old Faq casters, together again, all those toxic secrets...)
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby TheTuna » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:03 pm

The.Healing.Mage wrote:I call shenanigans on that "prediction."

Edit: Harry Dresden would be a Shockmancer, especially since it's a subclass of Naughtymancy. It's a shame there's no "pyromancy", since that would fit him like a glove.


Oooh, good point; that'd definitely be him. Wonder what Willow might be; Thinkamancer, perhaps? It's a tough fit.

I really love all these 'mancer character cameos, they're great fun. Have we seen the Spy before?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Lamech » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:11 pm

Hmm... so there was a mix up. Also thought bubbles. :) And actually are any GK units dying? I mean there was the hobo, and the dwagons, but the hobo will get back up just fine. Its gonna be funny if he gets through the portal after the battle is over. On that note, is he about to turn the Hippiemancers? 'Cause that would be a pretty big win.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Kreistor » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:13 pm

Okay, now we know that the Staff doesn't confer 100% or permanent invulnerability to magic. It can either be overwhelmed or is leaky. (Otherwise, Parson would be invulnerable to Incapacitation.)

Janis' words are interesting. "I can't stack with him, Marie." I wonder if this may have some secondary side effects.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby kagato23 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:45 pm

This actually makes me respect Marie. Up until now, I saw her as a passive manipulator. The fact she's ready to get her hands dirty in this make her rise up a few notches in my esteem.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby allaces14400 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:07 am

I swear, I thought I heard the Juggernauts' theme from Modern Warfare 2 when I read the last panel. :twisted:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby fjolnir » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:10 am

This is predictamancy-as-manipulation, her predictamancy has been noted by her to be unreliable regarding this turn due to the fact that it's an INSANE tipping point for at least a major portion of the world. By telling her she predicts it, she adds weight to the idea, but I doubt there is any actual magical effect behind it (she resembles Miss Cleo, she has to be at least PART carnymancer.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby drachefly » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:27 am

Or it could be that she got close enough to the event to see it coming up. Look, I'm not saying she's being honest, but there is the possibility.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Kreistor » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:49 am

Or it's not Predictamancy at all, since she cast no spell, and everyone knows it. She's just making an obvious prediction, not a Prediction.

Wow, people want to read so much into Marie's sense of humour. She mocks the Carnymancer by imitating his voice pattern, so she must be a manipulator. She gives people Predictions of the future that sets them on a path, so she must have created the path.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Forealms » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:09 am

Not sure if somebody decided this in the last thread, but panel 4 seems to indicate that, whomever else he is, that guy next to Isaac is in part the Allstate guy.

Also, first post. It's about time I stop creeping the forums here :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:19 am

Tobz wrote:Of all the casters in Erf, I don't think there are many other casters that will have such an antagonizing effect on the Tool as Janis and Marie. :lol:


Heh, I can imagine that, I dare say it would be quite entertaining. They I imagine she'd be just as happy to use magic on him as Maggie when it is called for.

I wonder if Sizemore will stack as well against the Thinkamancer bunch. His emotional struggle to fight alongside Janis against other casters would be interesting, and it's always fun to see his (mindless?) Golems pound something into the ground.


That is a curious bit - Parson doesn't sound like he has factored in Sizemore, and Janis didn't say to include him in Parson's next lot of calcs... me they don't think he is much good in such a fight? I guess his best fighting feats take place below ground and/or with preparation. Not sure what Marie brings to a fight, though Janis is certainly useful.

Lamech wrote:And actually are any GK units dying? I mean there was the hobo, and the dwagons, but the hobo will get back up just fine. Its gonna be funny if he gets through the portal after the battle is over. On that note, is he about to turn the Hippiemancers? 'Cause that would be a pretty big win.
"Charlie nice Kingworld, trick. Oh BTWs I turned three flavors of casters. Yes I mean all of them. Because of Kingworld. Do all your plans backfire this badly?"


He doesn't have access to all that natural thinkamancy that lets him know what is happening to troops would be my guess. Last he knew (without Maggie updating him) was the GK forces were still in something of a precarious situation (that, and GK forces have been dying, even if it isn't in huge numbers yet, plus he might be counting the ground forces and the ones being lost on Jillian's rampage).

And I don't know about that caster turning. Getting a couple of casters to team up with you to get you were they want you to go probably doesn't equal turning their entire caster type (unless every hippiemancer and predictmancer was on board with this and are a close faction - plus the ones that still have sides to serve), especially since they were already subtly supporting Parson. Personally I think if it was seen as that it would create even more chaos. We know at least some caster types seem to object to Wanda and her pliers, one caster type objects to Charlie and his dish... if large numbers of formerly neutral hippiemancers and predictamancers were perceived as joining one side's crusades it might inspire other caster types to unify against them.

drachefly wrote:Or it could be that she got close enough to the event to see it coming up. Look, I'm not saying she's being honest, but there is the possibility.


I guess previous comic she did tell Parson to hurry up, it wasn't going to be easy, so she might be seeing something. Still, it does offer her a strong way to win arguments. Instead of trying to convince Janis she just has to go "already seen you'll stack, so just stack already". It would be a good time to test the power of predictamancy if magic was involved - heh, just say "No" Janis.

Kreistor wrote:Or it's not Predictamancy at all, since she cast no spell, and everyone knows it. She's just making an obvious prediction, not a Prediction.


True. Maybe. We haven't really seen predictamancy in action, just people saying "A predictamancer predicted" kind of stuff. Perhaps there some form of active predictamancy you can cast on yourself (like some sort of buff, near future sight).

But reading it again I can see she might be joking, in a predictamancer way (I like her, though I still think her way with people is a little creepy and her grand goals give her a slight "non-good" vibe).
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Swodaems » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:03 am

I really, really hope some outside factor is responsible for Janis making that decision, such as it suddenly becoming clear that the Thinkamancers cannot deliver on their promise of safety. Janis has some excellant immediate reasons (maintaining MK neutrality, preventing an undesirable change in the world*, keeping herself out of personal danger, doubts about Marie's behavior, etc.) to decline Marie's request and only an oddly ill-defined hope for peace as reason to accept it. (When most people try to change the world, they usually have some ideas about what the proper results should be.)

Pity about the text updates, I was hoping we would get more information about the Magic Kingdom before it's reduced to a warzone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby nnescio » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:23 am

Jeff wrote:And i didn't really expect to see Anima from "The Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer" here (third panel, bottom right).
Anyway, this plan of stacking with Janis could cause some big problems, since it may be treated as a violation of neutrality by the other factions. Let's see what happens.


Here's what she looks like, for reference:

Spoiler: show
Image


Quite possibly a Weirdomancer, as she literally gave people 'specials' (magic or other extraordinary abilities) in the original source.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby SurvivorX » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:50 am

I just love the look on Sizemore's face throughout the whole thing..."Nnnnngh...noooooo...why do you people keep saying these CRAZY THINGS..." He looks so helpless XD
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby elecampane » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:38 am

Kreistor wrote:Or it's not Predictamancy at all, since she cast no spell, and everyone knows it. She's just making an obvious prediction, not a Prediction.

Well, we don't really know how predictamancy spells look like, they can be somewhat similar to thinkamancy spells which have little or no visual effects.
And she is stating in the last panel that it is a Prediction (capital P).
And if it is really a prophecy, I expect it to be a self-fulfilling one

Edit:
Oh, and I just thought: who says she Predicted it just now? She could've seen that a while ago, and that's why she led Janis to the portal park and insisted on assisting Parson
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Phoenix1 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:14 am

Is it just me, or does that "I so Predict it" sound a lot less like "I've divined it will happen this way" and a lot more like "I have decided it will happen this way"? I could be way off, but if not, that has huge implications for the power of Predictamancy, as not just magic that can discern what Fate has in store, but potentially, can directly alter Fate to at least some degree.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Dr Pepper » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:19 am

And why not stacked with Sizemore as well?
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:45 am

I would like to start by pointing out a small but quite significant detail

Marie didn't knew beforehand that Hamster had a super mathmancy item!
She needs to ask what it is. So there goes all the conspiracies that they could make item-summoning items easily. The bracer was clearly an unexpected effect, so unexpected that not even Marie the Predictmancer could see it coming.

Now on to the remaining of the comic.

-Hopefully Maggie will finally learn that it's no good to act behind her superior's back. Next time she wants to share Hamster's master plans with random people, ask for Hamster's advice first. He's the tactical genius on the house after all.

-GMTA aparently decided that they should be the ones deciding the shots. Well all conspiracies end up with backstabbing sooner or later.

-The MK doesn't really seem to be that neutral, but more a "Mind your own business" gangster policy. There's a warlord walking in broad daylight again, but he's talking with the GMTA, so you better move along if you know what's good to you. If you can get a big gang, you can bully your way trough MK's conventions no problem. Just the irony that the suposed heavy thinkers are the ones doing the bullying!

Your late work hasn't been to our satisfaction. You need to be taught some lessons. Please follow us to that isolated building so that there aren't any witnesses.

If you don't acept our generous protection, somebody may get hurt, if you catch my meaning.


This is, if Maggie is willing to throw sugestions and deadly backslashes among his own side, I tremble in thinking what kind of heavy brainwashing the GMTA have in store for Hamster.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 67

Postby Beeskee » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:20 am

Sizemore was unwilling to enter Spacerock, and Parson told him (promised him?) that he wouldn't have to enter the city, just get Parson through the Magic Kingdom to the gate. Parson still seems to be planning to leave him behind, though that may now be dangerous considering the number of non-allied casters involved.

I'm not sure if the other casters (GMTTA or otherwise) would hurt Sizemore, or what would happen after Parson and whoever else enters Spacerock. I imagine they'd leave him alone after that, but if enough folks figure out what is going on they may take out their anger or frustration on Sizemore if Parson became unavailable.


Another alternative is that dirtamancers may not have direct offensive damage spells, and so Parson may be excluding him from the calculations simply because it doesn't matter. We've seen him use scrolls but I don't think that carnymancy scroll deals direct damage. Stacking does add defensive bonuses but I don't think Parson wants to use Sizemore as a meat shield.
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