Book 2 - Text Updates 053

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby drachefly » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:03 pm

How were the other dwagons injured? They were only raised after the arrows stopped falling, so most of them should be in fine shape.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Oberon » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:27 pm

Kreistor wrote:Further, we know from Jillian that Archons are surrounding Jetstone. What we don't know is how many. By allowing Parson to enter Jetstone, Parson is essentially trapped there. The Casters will more stringently guard against his return, so Charlie has another chance to be able to capture Parson. (Parson can't mount dwagons, so getting back to GK is going to be a little bit problematic. Maybe a net strung between dwagons, the way the Archons tried? Maybe the Rug or Jetpack.)
Trapped, how? Either on-turn or off-turn, Parson can move between any two cities with a MK portal. Or just move into the MK to escape death (or capture), similar to the end of Book 1. How about exiting the same way he entered?
Kreistor wrote:All Sides would understand the fundamental threat: Parson in the MK can capture an unsuspecting Free Caster and drag him/her off to GK... which is something no other Side can do.
Meh, tepid at best. An unaccompanied level 2 warlord is no real, physical threat to the MK or anyone in it. The "fundamental threat" isn't physical at all, it is simply that the conventions are being broken, change is happening. Fear of change stops people from taking action. All long term, stable environments fear change, and the MK does not seem to be any exception to this rule.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:38 pm

Oberon wrote:
Kreistor wrote:All Sides would understand the fundamental threat: Parson in the MK can capture an unsuspecting Free Caster and drag him/her off to GK... which is something no other Side can do.
Meh, tepid at best. An unaccompanied level 2 warlord is no real, physical threat to the MK or anyone in it. The "fundamental threat" isn't physical at all, it is simply that the conventions are being broken, change is happening. Fear of change stops people from taking action. All long term, stable environments fear change, and the MK does not seem to be any exception to this rule.

The threat Parson (well, more accurately, the fear that Parson's ability to enter the MK) may represent is stated more explicitly in one of the extra pages included in Book 1. No spoilers other than that. Get your copy if you don't already have it.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:29 pm

There is a lot of fighting left. Masses of infantry and Archers in Mainway and on Outer Walls. Battle Bears and other siege. But GK already has Atrium, so once Tower falls and Dungeon can be claimed by GK, Gk owns all of Garrison and Jetstone changes hands, Then GK can redeploy with freedom throughout the City.

We'll have to see just how much death Parson is capable of. If he wants to prevent Jetstone infantry and siege from escaping, he's going to want to get forces between infantry and Outer Walls, which means flight and dwagons. There's a danger posed by the reserve Archery on Outer Walls to an air assault, but Parson may choose to attack it with Archons..

But once he possesses Garrison, Parson can bring Sizemore into Jetstone, because GK will own the City and it would no longer count as an attack. So maybe he'll assault Outer Walls by tunneling from Dungeons with light infantry (pretty sure we can say lots of Jetstone infantry is light, because that's who attacked GK tunnels which needed light units.). He'd wind up creating a Tunnel zone. Putting melee infantry in direct contact with Archery rarely ends well for Archery. And it would force the Mainway untis to assautl Outer Walls to get out.

The other thing about possessing Garrison is that the Archons can get out of Airspace, and dwagons can enter Airspace. Defensively the Archons could head to Tower Rubble and down into dungeons, but Offensively to Outer Walls. Those Archons have massive bonuses they wouldn't see under Charlie. The yellow dwagons can bomb the Mainway. Other dwagons can hit and run the edges of the Mainway. (Land Breath out, lift off, breath in, rinse and repeat.) Parson's dwagon gambit against siege during tBfGK suggests that they can attack some types of units from air, so it's possible that this isn't necessary.

There's also the possibility of using Jack to assault Outer Walls, but I don't think I'd risk him on that assault. Not exceptionally high risk, but not necessary, and a potential waste of Juice. Jack is how Wanda stays safe, and we don't want to lose that.

Oberon wrote:How about exiting the same way he entered?


Such tricks only works once. After that, it's too high risk that they're watching the Portal. Or using Predictamancy to be ready for the move.

MarbitChow wrote:The threat Parson (well, more accurately, the fear that Parson's ability to enter the MK) may represent is stated more explicitly in one of the extra pages included in Book 1. No spoilers other than that. Get your copy if you don't already have it.


Not financially feasible at this time. Note there's no Tool icon over there ----------------------------------------------------------------->
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby fjolnir » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:13 am

@marbit chow, as soon as I have money and an option that isn't paypal to pay arrives I would both own a toolship and purchase books.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby drachefly » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:48 am

Kreistor wrote:But once he possesses Garrison, Parson can bring Sizemore into Jetstone


Assuming that the portal is still open.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Infidel » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:43 am

Zeku wrote:I'll be the one to decide if I have made a mistake. If I delete my post, or edit it, or post My Little Pony, it will be at my sole discretion.

I certainly won't be explaining my motives, or apologizing for them.


That is up to you of course. But you are on a social site, so there are general acceptable standards of behavior that apply to ALL forums, be they libraries, cafes, churches, or chat rooms. If you step on someone's toes, expect someone to comment, refusing to apologize not a response that increases respect however.

We used to have a forum climate based entirely on the enjoyment of the comic, and respect for others, but over the months I've seen presumptuous people trickle in. Now, I see posts explaining someone's personal political views, insecure rants about who or what is right, turning a friendly discussion into an argument, and now this, "post counseling."


You are confused. There was no golden days of Yore, these are the golden days. "Now you see" doesn't mean they weren't here before, it simply means you were oblivious. political views, insecure rants, friendly discussion regressing into bitter arguments, these have always been part of the forum. Also, when you talk about presumptuous people trickling in, I can only assume you are not talking about me. I am neither new nor a trickle, nor presumptuous.

Your contribution is even weaker, and to return the favor you did for me, I suggest you delete it.


If you don't like other people commenting on your posts, then I suggest you don't make posts. Not that I'm suggesting your posts are the problem, just the attitude. The whole point of posting on a social site is interacting with others. Not playing invisible, or telling other people they should delete their posts.

sigh, one reply is all your gonna get. I neither have the time nor inclination, as I used to, to regress a friendly discussion into a an argument.

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Anyway, I think a better corollary to the shooting the lame runner is: you can't shoot runners too often, or people stop giving good odds on either.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Infidel » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:45 am

Oberon wrote:Trapped, how? Either on-turn or off-turn, Parson can move between any two cities with a MK portal. Or just move into the MK to escape death (or capture), similar to the end of Book 1. How about exiting the same way he entered?


I believe we only have evidence of MK portals being in capital cities so far. I could be outdated on this. Not that I bring up this point to counter your argument in general, I'm just focusing on the "any city" part of it. Although Kreistor, as usual, already pointed out the biggest hole.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Magentawolf » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:51 am

When the forums devolve this far, you know it's been too long since the last comic was posted.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby sleepymancer » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:54 am

Lamech wrote:Compared to KILLING THERE CASTER! I fail to see how barring a caster from the MK is worse than KILLING THAT CASTER! How does that even make sense?


Well, if we take the view that most of the casters are predominantly philosophers, a parallel could be drawn with Socrates who opted (according to the drooling praise of fan-boy/wide-boy) for death over leaving Athens, as he deemed that life without the city where he philosophised and the people he learnt from/belittled was worse than death...

That said, I'm no classicist, although I like to think I have a bit of the philosopher in me :D
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:42 pm

Infidel wrote:I believe we only have evidence of MK portals being in capital cities so far. I could be outdated on this. Not that I bring up this point to counter your argument in general, I'm just focusing on the "any city" part of it. Although Kreistor, as usual, already pointed out the biggest hole.


That's something I hadn't considered. The portal in GK didn't disappear when GK was reduced to Level 1, so it's not Level limited.

If you're right, we'll soon find out. The portal will disappear when Jetstone is captured. The idea certainly has merit.

It would give us an idea of how big the world is. Count the portals and you count the Sides.

[Edit: Between a couple comics, I counted 20, but a couple might be duplicates.]
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Akkristor » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:40 pm

Mentioning the Dwagon drop brought something to mind for me.

Decrypted are like Uncroaked, in that they gain the benefits from being leaded by a Croakamancer.

One of said benefits is Dance Fighting.

Can the Decrypted Dwagons dance fight? If so, what would they do, Slam dancing?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:53 pm

Akkristor wrote:Can the Decrypted Dwagons dance fight? If so, what would they do, Slam dancing?


You, sir, just won the internet.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Goshen » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:12 pm

Magentawolf wrote:When the forums devolve this far, you know it's been too long since the last comic was posted.

Word.

If we don't get an update soon, I may have to resort to poetry. Nobody want's that. Don't make me go there....
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby drachefly » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:20 am

I could bring up quantum mechanics again.Would that help?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby splintermute » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:00 pm

Infidel wrote:
Oberon wrote:Trapped, how? Either on-turn or off-turn, Parson can move between any two cities with a MK portal. Or just move into the MK to escape death (or capture), similar to the end of Book 1. How about exiting the same way he entered?


I believe we only have evidence of MK portals being in capital cities so far. I could be outdated on this. Not that I bring up this point to counter your argument in general, I'm just focusing on the "any city" part of it. Although Kreistor, as usual, already pointed out the biggest hole.


I think that's what Oberon meant in the first place: (between any two)(cities with a MK portal) rather than (between any two cities)(with a MK portal).
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:34 pm

splintermute wrote:I think that's what Oberon meant in the first place: (between any two)(cities with a MK portal) rather than (between any two cities)(with a MK portal).


No, he means that each Side has a portal in its Capital only. So your proposal would have Parson walking into an enemy City, since no Side could have two portals.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:38 pm

Kreistor wrote:No, he means that each Side has a portal in its Capital only. So your proposal would have Parson walking into an enemy City, since no Side could have two portals.

Sorry if I'm forgetting a reference here, but DO we know that? Is it possible that only capital SITES have portals, and therefor a side that captures a "secondary" capital would still have a portal in both cities? If this hasn't been explicitly stated as canon before, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:02 pm

0beron wrote:
Kreistor wrote:No, he means that each Side has a portal in its Capital only. So your proposal would have Parson walking into an enemy City, since no Side could have two portals.

Sorry if I'm forgetting a reference here, but DO we know that? Is it possible that only capital SITES have portals, and therefor a side that captures a "secondary" capital would still have a portal in both cities? If this hasn't been explicitly stated as canon before, it'll be interesting to see what happens.


It's only 8 or 9 messages back. No, we don't know it for certain, but it si a very reasonable proposal.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:02 pm

As far as I know there has been no concrete evidence capital cities are the only ones allowed to have portals. True that's all we've seen so far, but that's far from the word of the titans.
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